Choosing a specialty = Sleepless nights and diarrhea

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FatPigeon

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Okay, so maybe I'm trying too hard, forcing it, failing to allow it to "hit me over the head" as I was promised it eventually would. I am, however, half-way through my third year, and must admit to some recent thoughts that all of that "it's never too late to choose a specialty" talk may be a bunch of horse !@#$. Sure, you can choose it at the beginning of your fourth year, but, if it happens to be competitive, good luck getting it. Good luck competing with those wonderful, gunning chaps who've had their future specialty branded on their arse since birth, doing benchwork in highschool and barging in on the plastics chief during the first week of MSI.

It feels as though I'm making too big a deal of the decision, but, then again, it has an impact on some rather important things in my life. Will I ever see my family again? Will I be able to start a family of my own? Will I be able to pay off my whopping $160,000 debt? Will I absolutely hate what I'm stuck doing every day, for the next forty years?

Luckily, I've at least narrowed it down to a surgical field. Simply: hours of rounds + diabetes + COPD + hypertension + more diabetes + talking without doing much else = me, trying desperately to keep my eyes open, wishing the people around me would stop talking so I could feel less guilty about paying no attention.

Further than "surgical field," I've made no progress whatsoever. Oh, and I've been thinking about this for a long, long time. Unfortunately, I do value my time off: I'd been in denial about this but, try as I might, I just can't shake that good feeling you get on the night preceding a day off, knowing you're free for the next twenty-four hours. I like concerts, video games, women, and cars, in that order. Work fluctuates between the spot just after women and just before it.

In short, nothing seems quite right. It just feels like there's a glaring problem with every single option:

Neurosurgery -
I love this. There's no duty I'd rather have than to remove meningiomas, place shunts, and clip aneurysms every week. When I see somebody cut the dura I'm practically drooling in stupid fascination.
But... seven years of NO significant life outside of the hospital? Why does it have to be this way? I tried for a while to convince myself that the lifestyle was the same as it is in general surgery, in orthopedics, in ENT....but, blargh, it was nothing but a sad, sad display of denial and inept rationalization. I feel almost as if neurosurgery would be a very selfish decision, stepping out on my parents who've done everything for me, only to return after nearly a decade to find them on the early end of elderly.

I sometimes wonder whether neurosurgery is some sort of sick TRAP for people whose self-esteem took a hit secondary to some bullying in highschool. I feel the same way about jobs at MGH and other high-flying academic institutions. Something about the prestige is so great that people line up to be paid less (per hour, at least) and mistreated, just for the ability to say at the end of the day that "I work at the MGH." Similarly, how about "I'm a neurosurgeon?" How sad would it be to have those scumbag jocks in senior high take your lunch, tease you in front of the girl you always wished you were cool enough for but from whom you never even got a "Hi"...and THEN, in some abstract and pathetic way ten years down the line, to have them rob you of the rest of your life by doing such a number on your ego that you felt compelled to enter some ridiculous ego-trap of a profession just to prove them wrong. Do MGH, Hopkins, and Columbia really think that people can eat prestige to supplement the meager meal that is their academic salary? Doctors can't eat prestige. They can eat steak and lobster, and shrimp, and, on Sunday afternoons, hamburgers.

Sorry, got a bit off-topic there.

General Surgery-
This too is fascinating, but not as fascinating as neurosurgery. You know what, though? It's interesting enough to keep me from looking back over my shoulder at neuro, thinking "I should have done that, but now I'm bored." However, the salaries aren't enough to get me out of my massive debt, starting at just 180k. You'd be crazy to do this when four years of anesthesia could earn you twice this, right? That's just common sense. I'd have to do a fellowship.

Wait. I could never do a fellowship, or I'd have to murder myself to fend off the regret. Surgical oncology is awesome, as is CT surgery, as is vascular, but, since 5 + 2 = 7 = the same amount of time as a neurosurgical residency, I wouldn't be able to live with it. If I'm going to spend seven years, working 80 hours per week, I might as well work a wee bit harder and do what I'm most interested in. I'd have no regrets, except, again, that I've missed an opportunity to spend time with my parents, start a family, get married, all that stuff that starts to seem really important when you put aside the hard@ss attitude and really think about it...

Orthopedic Surgery-
Sadly, this is the obvious answer. The musculoskeletal system is the least interesting thing I've had to study since enrolling in medical school. I'd rather talk about MAST CELLS and IL-2, TNF-alpha, and PGE2. I'd rather talk about the consistency of stool. I can't stand football, stretching, huge guys with bulging biceps, or talk of fitness and exercise.
However, the field has absolutely everything else. Surgery, and lots of it. Tons of invasive operations. Money to pay off my loans and buy a frickin' Maserati with the remainder. FIVE years of residency, the same as general surgery, with a potentially lighter schedule and more control over my life upon finishing.
I must admit to myself, though, that this medicine stuff has grown on me just a bit. I don't want to forget everything I know about medications, medical management, GI disease, neurological disease, etc. etc. I like that stuff (though NOT enough to tolerate even an hour of IM rounds. No, not that much). I don't want to be the doctor who can't give his friend a decent differential when he calls to ask him why he's got purpura and a sharp pain in his left upper quadrant. After all, he's a doctor, and he should know. This takes me back to general surgery a bit, but wouldn't you have to be completely nuts to do a residency of the same length and intensity as orthopedics, to be paid $100,000k less per year while spending more time in mucky medical management with sick, angry patients? I can't love my science books THAT much, can I?

ENT -
Hours are purportedly nice. Neck dissections are cool. Boogers and ear wax, coupled with the same suffering salary as general surgery, are not.

It's come down to a coin toss. Wait, I'd need a three-sided coin. !@#$!

Thanks for listening. Be gentle.

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I don't have a ton of great advice to give, but I wouldn't worry too much... One of my closest friends was having a ton of trouble deciding between two specialities, but when the time came to actually start applying, the answer suddenly became clear to her.
I guess it's too late to be making best friends with the head of the neurosurgery program, but I think a lot of times that does more harm than good anyways.
I'd try to find some nice research opportunities, etc. in one of the surgical fields. That's close enough to satisfy most of the people who will be evaluating your application, and I think most of them (the neurosurgeons a possible exception:) will completely understand if you say that you took a while to make a final decision on which surgical specialty you wanted (Just as long as your "But then I realized what an idiot I was to even consider any specialty but _________ is convincing)
And perhaps I'm hopelessly naive, but I wouldn't let the debt influence your decision. There are plenty of general pediatricians paying off 250k in debt- not ideal, but workable.

On a side note, don't judge the neurosurgeons too harshly. Some of them may very well be going in for the prestige, but I think most of them are attracted for different reasons. And I'm really thankful for each and every one of them, because it's the last job on earth I would sign up for!:)

Best of luck choosing!!!!
 
Okay, so maybe I'm trying too hard, forcing it, failing to allow it to "hit me over the head" as I was promised it eventually would. I am, however, half-way through my third year, and must admit to some recent thoughts that all of that "it's never too late to choose a specialty" talk may be a bunch of horse !@#$. Sure, you can choose it at the beginning of your fourth year, but, if it happens to be competitive, good luck getting it. Good luck competing with those wonderful, gunning chaps who've had their future specialty branded on their arse since birth, doing benchwork in highschool and barging in on the plastics chief during the first week of MSI.

It feels as though I'm making too big a deal of the decision, but, then again, it has an impact on some rather important things in my life. Will I ever see my family again? Will I be able to start a family of my own? Will I be able to pay off my whopping $160,000 debt? Will I absolutely hate what I'm stuck doing every day, for the next forty years?

Luckily, I've at least narrowed it down to a surgical field. Simply: hours of rounds + diabetes + COPD + hypertension + more diabetes + talking without doing much else = me, trying desperately to keep my eyes open, wishing the people around me would stop talking so I could feel less guilty about paying no attention.

Further than "surgical field," I've made no progress whatsoever. Oh, and I've been thinking about this for a long, long time. Unfortunately, I do value my time off: I'd been in denial about this but, try as I might, I just can't shake that good feeling you get on the night preceding a day off, knowing you're free for the next twenty-four hours. I like concerts, video games, women, and cars, in that order. Work fluctuates between the spot just after women and just before it.

In short, nothing seems quite right. It just feels like there's a glaring problem with every single option:

Neurosurgery -
I love this. There's no duty I'd rather have than to remove meningiomas, place shunts, and clip aneurysms every week. When I see somebody cut the dura I'm practically drooling in stupid fascination.
But... seven years of NO significant life outside of the hospital? Why does it have to be this way? I tried for a while to convince myself that the lifestyle was the same as it is in general surgery, in orthopedics, in ENT....but, blargh, it was nothing but a sad, sad display of denial and inept rationalization. I feel almost as if neurosurgery would be a very selfish decision, stepping out on my parents who've done everything for me, only to return after nearly a decade to find them on the early end of elderly.

I sometimes wonder whether neurosurgery is some sort of sick TRAP for people whose self-esteem took a hit secondary to some bullying in highschool. I feel the same way about jobs at MGH and other high-flying academic institutions. Something about the prestige is so great that people line up to be paid less (per hour, at least) and mistreated, just for the ability to say at the end of the day that "I work at the MGH." Similarly, how about "I'm a neurosurgeon?" How sad would it be to have those scumbag jocks in senior high take your lunch, tease you in front of the girl you always wished you were cool enough for but from whom you never even got a "Hi"...and THEN, in some abstract and pathetic way ten years down the line, to have them rob you of the rest of your life by doing such a number on your ego that you felt compelled to enter some ridiculous ego-trap of a profession just to prove them wrong. Do MGH, Hopkins, and Columbia really think that people can eat prestige to supplement the meager meal that is their academic salary? Doctors can't eat prestige. They can eat steak and lobster, and shrimp, and, on Sunday afternoons, hamburgers.

Sorry, got a bit off-topic there.

General Surgery-
This too is fascinating, but not as fascinating as neurosurgery. You know what, though? It's interesting enough to keep me from looking back over my shoulder at neuro, thinking "I should have done that, but now I'm bored." However, the salaries aren't enough to get me out of my massive debt, starting at just 180k. You'd be crazy to do this when four years of anesthesia could earn you twice this, right? That's just common sense. I'd have to do a fellowship.

Wait. I could never do a fellowship, or I'd have to murder myself to fend off the regret. Surgical oncology is awesome, as is CT surgery, as is vascular, but, since 5 + 2 = 7 = the same amount of time as a neurosurgical residency, I wouldn't be able to live with it. If I'm going to spend seven years, working 80 hours per week, I might as well work a wee bit harder and do what I'm most interested in. I'd have no regrets, except, again, that I've missed an opportunity to spend time with my parents, start a family, get married, all that stuff that starts to seem really important when you put aside the hard@ss attitude and really think about it...

Orthopedic Surgery-
Sadly, this is the obvious answer. The musculoskeletal system is the least interesting thing I've had to study since enrolling in medical school. I'd rather talk about MAST CELLS and IL-2, TNF-alpha, and PGE2. I'd rather talk about the consistency of stool. I can't stand football, stretching, huge guys with bulging biceps, or talk of fitness and exercise.
However, the field has absolutely everything else. Surgery, and lots of it. Tons of invasive operations. Money to pay off my loans and buy a frickin' Maserati with the remainder. FIVE years of residency, the same as general surgery, with a potentially lighter schedule and more control over my life upon finishing.
I must admit to myself, though, that this medicine stuff has grown on me just a bit. I don't want to forget everything I know about medications, medical management, GI disease, neurological disease, etc. etc. I like that stuff (though NOT enough to tolerate even an hour of IM rounds. No, not that much). I don't want to be the doctor who can't give his friend a decent differential when he calls to ask him why he's got purpura and a sharp pain in his left upper quadrant. After all, he's a doctor, and he should know. This takes me back to general surgery a bit, but wouldn't you have to be completely nuts to do a residency of the same length and intensity as orthopedics, to be paid $100,000k less per year while spending more time in mucky medical management with sick, angry patients? I can't love my science books THAT much, can I?

ENT -
Hours are purportedly nice. Neck dissections are cool. Boogers and ear wax, coupled with the same suffering salary as general surgery, are not.

It's come down to a coin toss. Wait, I'd need a three-sided coin. !@#$!

Thanks for listening. Be gentle.

Wow, that's a great summation of ortho you've got there. While you may not like the anatomy, that's a great reason not to go into it; you'd be miserable for 5 or 6 years depending on whether or not you choose to do a fellowship (most people do). However, just because one becomes an orthopaedic surgeon does not mean that he or she can no longer give a differential for general medical problems. Oh, and guess what -- my research in ortho involved IL-2, PGE-2, TNF-alpha. After speaking with an orthopaedic surgeon, I'm doing an Asthma/Allergy/Immunology elective because of the increasing amounts of immunological research being done in ortho. Ortho is actually a complex field where you do have to know what's going on with the person in general, but no, you're not going to focus on managing a person's 50,000 complicated medical problems.

If you really love neurosurg or some gen surg subspecialty, suck it up for 7 years; especially if neurosurg is the choice.
 
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Have you ever considered urology? Residency is 5 years (6 at some institutions incl a research year), cool surgeries that generally don't last for more than a few hours, good pay, and decent hours (not too many emergencies). If I had to go into surgery, I'd do uro.
 
You could do ophtho. Residency might have more medical management than you like, but you can do mostly surgery afterwards... and it has a better lifestyle than most surgical subspecialties.
 
And ENT does NOT make the same as your average general surgeon, FYI.
 
With ortho you would be replacing hips and knees 10 to 1 over seeing athletes. The athletes are the healthy ones.

By the way, I also hate the musculoskeletal system. ;)

And yes, ENTs make more than gen surgery. Of course it is very competitive just like every other specialty you have listed.
 
You should be a writer.

It seems to me that you dont dislike medicine, just the endless rounds, and yapping. I'd suspect that you just dont like academic medicine. Think of doing IM at a community program. In three years, you can go for a fellowship, or choose never to round in a hospital again. If you do a fellowship, you can go into one with a lot of procedeures (GI), or you can go into one that doesnt have so many, and then do a sub-specialty in interventional-nephro/pulm/cardio... whatever.

Think about urology. Its got a great balance of medical and surgical management, since you're it - theres no counterparts as in, say, cardiology and CT surgery, or neurology, and neurosurgery. Most urologists spend one or two days in the OR and the rest in the office. If I go banannas and decide on a surgical field, I'd go for urology or CT surgery. I havent done enough CT in my GS rotation to tell you why, but I have done a lot of urology, particularly the oncology side of things. If you can get past the urology part of urology, go for it. Personally, on my last scrub in for a radical prostatectomy, I'd decided that I'd HAD it with the nether regions. Fickle, I know... but thats me.
 
Okay, so maybe I'm trying too hard, forcing it, failing to allow it to "hit me over the head" as I was promised it eventually would. I am, however, half-way through my third year, and must admit to some recent thoughts that all of that "it's never too late to choose a specialty" talk may be a bunch of horse !@#$. Sure, you can choose it at the beginning of your fourth year, but, if it happens to be competitive, good luck getting it. Good luck competing with those wonderful, gunning chaps who've had their future specialty branded on their arse since birth, doing benchwork in highschool and barging in on the plastics chief during the first week of MSI.

It feels as though I'm making too big a deal of the decision, but, then again, it has an impact on some rather important things in my life. Will I ever see my family again? Will I be able to start a family of my own? Will I be able to pay off my whopping $160,000 debt? Will I absolutely hate what I'm stuck doing every day, for the next forty years?

Luckily, I've at least narrowed it down to a surgical field. Simply: hours of rounds + diabetes + COPD + hypertension + more diabetes + talking without doing much else = me, trying desperately to keep my eyes open, wishing the people around me would stop talking so I could feel less guilty about paying no attention.

Further than "surgical field," I've made no progress whatsoever. Oh, and I've been thinking about this for a long, long time. Unfortunately, I do value my time off: I'd been in denial about this but, try as I might, I just can't shake that good feeling you get on the night preceding a day off, knowing you're free for the next twenty-four hours. I like concerts, video games, women, and cars, in that order. Work fluctuates between the spot just after women and just before it.

In short, nothing seems quite right. It just feels like there's a glaring problem with every single option:

Neurosurgery -
I love this. There's no duty I'd rather have than to remove meningiomas, place shunts, and clip aneurysms every week. When I see somebody cut the dura I'm practically drooling in stupid fascination.
But... seven years of NO significant life outside of the hospital? Why does it have to be this way? I tried for a while to convince myself that the lifestyle was the same as it is in general surgery, in orthopedics, in ENT....but, blargh, it was nothing but a sad, sad display of denial and inept rationalization. I feel almost as if neurosurgery would be a very selfish decision, stepping out on my parents who've done everything for me, only to return after nearly a decade to find them on the early end of elderly.

I sometimes wonder whether neurosurgery is some sort of sick TRAP for people whose self-esteem took a hit secondary to some bullying in highschool. I feel the same way about jobs at MGH and other high-flying academic institutions. Something about the prestige is so great that people line up to be paid less (per hour, at least) and mistreated, just for the ability to say at the end of the day that "I work at the MGH." Similarly, how about "I'm a neurosurgeon?" How sad would it be to have those scumbag jocks in senior high take your lunch, tease you in front of the girl you always wished you were cool enough for but from whom you never even got a "Hi"...and THEN, in some abstract and pathetic way ten years down the line, to have them rob you of the rest of your life by doing such a number on your ego that you felt compelled to enter some ridiculous ego-trap of a profession just to prove them wrong. Do MGH, Hopkins, and Columbia really think that people can eat prestige to supplement the meager meal that is their academic salary? Doctors can't eat prestige. They can eat steak and lobster, and shrimp, and, on Sunday afternoons, hamburgers.

Sorry, got a bit off-topic there.

General Surgery-
This too is fascinating, but not as fascinating as neurosurgery. You know what, though? It's interesting enough to keep me from looking back over my shoulder at neuro, thinking "I should have done that, but now I'm bored." However, the salaries aren't enough to get me out of my massive debt, starting at just 180k. You'd be crazy to do this when four years of anesthesia could earn you twice this, right? That's just common sense. I'd have to do a fellowship.

Wait. I could never do a fellowship, or I'd have to murder myself to fend off the regret. Surgical oncology is awesome, as is CT surgery, as is vascular, but, since 5 + 2 = 7 = the same amount of time as a neurosurgical residency, I wouldn't be able to live with it. If I'm going to spend seven years, working 80 hours per week, I might as well work a wee bit harder and do what I'm most interested in. I'd have no regrets, except, again, that I've missed an opportunity to spend time with my parents, start a family, get married, all that stuff that starts to seem really important when you put aside the hard@ss attitude and really think about it...

Orthopedic Surgery-
Sadly, this is the obvious answer. The musculoskeletal system is the least interesting thing I've had to study since enrolling in medical school. I'd rather talk about MAST CELLS and IL-2, TNF-alpha, and PGE2. I'd rather talk about the consistency of stool. I can't stand football, stretching, huge guys with bulging biceps, or talk of fitness and exercise.
However, the field has absolutely everything else. Surgery, and lots of it. Tons of invasive operations. Money to pay off my loans and buy a frickin' Maserati with the remainder. FIVE years of residency, the same as general surgery, with a potentially lighter schedule and more control over my life upon finishing.
I must admit to myself, though, that this medicine stuff has grown on me just a bit. I don't want to forget everything I know about medications, medical management, GI disease, neurological disease, etc. etc. I like that stuff (though NOT enough to tolerate even an hour of IM rounds. No, not that much). I don't want to be the doctor who can't give his friend a decent differential when he calls to ask him why he's got purpura and a sharp pain in his left upper quadrant. After all, he's a doctor, and he should know. This takes me back to general surgery a bit, but wouldn't you have to be completely nuts to do a residency of the same length and intensity as orthopedics, to be paid $100,000k less per year while spending more time in mucky medical management with sick, angry patients? I can't love my science books THAT much, can I?

ENT -
Hours are purportedly nice. Neck dissections are cool. Boogers and ear wax, coupled with the same suffering salary as general surgery, are not.

It's come down to a coin toss. Wait, I'd need a three-sided coin. !@#$!

Thanks for listening. Be gentle.

I have absolutely no advice, but this is one of the funniest posts I've ever seen.
 
Have you thought about ER? The breadth and depth of knowledge are both immense, you get to manage both medical and surgical problems, you don't round, you get paid very well relative to hours worked, your job is extremely portable, and every day is different and unexpected.

What about derm? Lots of people give derm a bad reputation, but in my experience I've had to master more internal medicine on derm than on internal medicine. Think of it as internal medicine minus the COPD, HTN, diabetes, and other boring fat/old/white heart disease crap that the GIM guys deal with ad nauseum. You do a lot of thinking, a lot of procedures, and you do have the option to do Moh's surgery should you have the desire. Of course, seeing as how you're pretty late in the game, it might be very hard for you to land a derm spot.

Of course, all of this advice is coming from a Canadian student. Here in Canada, derm and emerg are equal in terms of being the most competitive specialties. I also, unfortunately, find them the most interesting and enjoyable fields in medicine. I'm probably not going to match...blahhhhh
enough about me.

Good luck!
 
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