Claims Made vs Occurrence malpractice insurance for IPR.

[lejeunesage]

Does anyone else have experience choosing between the two?

Occurrence seems to make more sense. You pay a higher fee right away, then you don't have to worry about ever getting a tail.

Claims made is quite a bit cheaper. Even if you have to buy a tail later, that's several years' worth of interest/investment you've accumulated in the meantime.

My job will be strictly inpatient. I don't expect to be doing any procedure more complicated than a peripheral joint injection. If you work in IPR, what have you chosen to go with?

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[RangerBob]

I do all inpatient and went with an occurrence based policy. Those are actually fairly rare-most go with claims made policies.

The two big differences:
1) you need a tail for a claims made policy, which is typically double the mature policy rate (it can take five years or so to hit your mature quote)
2) An occurrence based policy has separate policy limit each year (you basically get a new policy each year). So its harder to hit those limits (typically 1mil/3mil). Which is good, but it's rarer for physiatrists to get sued compared to other specialties, so I'm not sure it matters all that much.

I was quoted about $800 for a claims made policy, with mature quote around 4K. An occurrence policy was about 2.5k with mature quote around 5K (technically it doesn't mature-I just get a first-year attending discount). I opted for the occurrence based policy because it sounded like a relatively small difference, and if my job (my first) didn't work out, I'd end up saving a lot by not spending about $6-8k on a tail.

In the long run, claims made would be cheaper, and the tail is waived if I retire from the practice of medicine (at least with my provider). But I can always switch to claims made down the line if I want to. I just thought for the next year or two an occurrence policy was the better way to go.

 

[lejeunesage]

I do all inpatient and went with an occurrence based policy. Those are actually fairly rare-most go with claims made policies.

The two big differences:
1) you need a tail for a claims made policy, which is typically double the mature policy rate (it can take five years or so to hit your mature quote)
2) An occurrence based policy has separate policy limit each year (you basically get a new policy each year). So its harder to hit those limits (typically 1mil/3mil). Which is good, but it's rarer for physiatrists to get sued compared to other specialties, so I'm not sure it matters all that much.

I was quoted about $800 for a claims made policy, with mature quote around 4K. An occurrence policy was about 2.5k with mature quote around 5K (technically it doesn't mature-I just get a first-year attending discount). I opted for the occurrence based policy because it sounded like a relatively small difference, and if my job (my first) didn't work out, I'd end up saving a lot by not spending about $6-8k on a tail.

In the long run, claims made would be cheaper, and the tail is waived if I retire from the practice of medicine (at least with my provider). But I can always switch to claims made down the line if I want to. I just thought for the next year or two an occurrence policy was the better way to go.

In ended up going with the claims made.
Yes, I can afford the occurrence policy, and yes PM&R malpractice is way cheaper than most other fields, but I saw paying more upfront as giving up the opportunity to collect interest on my money in the meantime.

 

[Burnted_out]

In ended up going with the claims made.
Yes, I can afford the occurrence policy, and yes PM&R malpractice is way cheaper than most other fields, but I saw paying more upfront as giving up the opportunity to collect interest on my money in the meantime.

Since you both mentioned that you do inpatient, what kind of set up do you have? Independent contractor, private, employee, etc? How many patients are you seeing daily roughly?

 

[lejeunesage]

Since you both mentioned that you do inpatient, what kind of set up do you have? Independent contractor, private, employee, etc? How many patients are you seeing daily roughly?

Independent contractor.
Due to my state being super slow in processing my file, I only got my medical license last week. So now, I'm waiting for my DEA license (which you need your state license to apply for).
So... I haven't started yet. Job comes with an income guarantee for a year. At my place, I'll basically be able to see however many patients I want. I'm going to start slow and build up from there. Then, if I decide I want more income, I can hire and train a PA to help me see more.

 

[RangerBob]

Since you both mentioned that you do inpatient, what kind of set up do you have? Independent contractor, private, employee, etc? How many patients are you seeing daily roughly?

I’m also an independent contractor/solo practitioner. I generally see 7-12 patients per day, which is lower than most providers (I unfortunately do not have a hospitalist managing all my patients, so that adds extra time, in addition to being a new/less efficient attending)

Unfortunately I have no income guarantee-my salary is 100% of patient collections (ie. “eat what you kill”) plus a medical director stipend. If I want to make more I can do consults at the hospital and nursing homes, so there really isn’t much of an earnings ceiling.

The best part about the arrangement is I’m my own boss. I get to determine my hours, and I’m not forced to do clinics I don’t want to (like EMG). There are some tax benefits (and drawbacks) too of course.

The downside is I have to get all my own benefits. And I am not eligible for PSLF, which actually makes jobs that pay quite a bit less the better financial decision. But life is about more than money.

 

[RangerBob]

In ended up going with the claims made.
Yes, I can afford the occurrence policy, and yes PM&R malpractice is way cheaper than most other fields, but I saw paying more upfront as giving up the opportunity to collect interest on my money in the meantime.

Very true. I will probably switch to claims made in the next year or so, once I’m confident I’ll be staying at this job long term.

 

[Burnted_out]

Independent contractor.
Due to my state being super slow in processing my file, I only got my medical license last week. So now, I'm waiting for my DEA license (which you need your state license to apply for).
So... I haven't started yet. Job comes with an income guarantee for a year. At my place, I'll basically be able to see however many patients I want. I'm going to start slow and build up from there. Then, if I decide I want more income, I can hire and train a PA to help me see more.

Are you at a free standing hospital? I wish I could so that. I have an income guarantee and bonus too but it’s a very old established group in a hospital. I wish I could do independent contractor.