Class strategy

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RockDoc7

Living the dream of the Golden Mean.
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So I have finally quit my job and started to take some classes, eg. Gen Chem, and wanted to know from other non-trads if doing the minimum required classes of 1 yr bio, 1 yr physics, and 2 yrs chem (through o-chem) is too little to be a successful candidate for med school or would you advise on taking more classes? Thanks.

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Do you already have an undergrad degree???
 
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Just personally, I feel like taking more upper levels helped a lot when it came time to take the MCAT (though the original reason I took them was to boost the GPA- so yay, two-fer)
As to whether it's necessary though... that probably depends on a lot of factors. I'd say if you're considering it, you think it'd be helpful and/or interesting, and you've got the moola to do it, then do it. As long as you're getting As in everything it can't hurt to take more classes.
 
Need more info. Do you have a degree? What's it in? What time frame will you be doing these classes in? What else will you be doing while taking them?
 
So I have finally quit my job and started to take some classes, eg. Gen Chem, and wanted to know from other non-trads if doing the minimum required classes of 1 yr bio, 1 yr physics, and 2 yrs chem (through o-chem) is too little to be a successful candidate for med school or would you advise on taking more classes? Thanks.

This depends on what else you already have: clinical experience/shadowing, community involvement, people to write recommendations, stuff like that. If you've covered those bases and your GPA is in good shape, and you're confident about the MCAT, then yes the coursework you talk about should be sufficient.
 
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Personally, I think going into med school without the depth of knowledge gained in biochem, genetics, cell bio, etc will hinder your performance not only on the MCAT, but in med school itself. That's not to say you can't do well, but it will likely make it much more difficult not having that foundational knowledge to build from. That said, I think anyone should certainly begin their app cycle whenever eligible and continue to take the upper division courses through the gap year.

My in-state med-school requires quite a few more courses then most (biochem and 15 credits of biology including 6 credits in upper division required). I think it's more than a screening tool, but they want to ensure adequate preparation.
 
^^good point.

Also, FWIW, if you're just starting now OP, by the time you get to the MCAT Biochem and Psych/Sociology will be tested as well, in addition to the 4 sciences. So you at least need to take those, and depending on what you did for your degree, possibly calculus or an English class.
 
Thanks for the thoughts thus far. I do have a bachelors and it is in social work. Clinical experience is covered as an emt. LOR's covered from my attendings I worked with as a psych social worker. As are english, psych, soc, and stats from my undergrad. I didnt know that biochem will also be on the nee MCAT so thanks for the shout. GPA undergrad is 3.4. And I'm trying to work my tail off understanding chem and getting an A. Not gonna lie, it's kinda tough haha. Just gotta get back into the swing of school again I suppose. I thought about calc but I just wont apply to the 20 or so schools that require calc. Time frame = as fast as possible ha. Shooting for 1.5 years I think. Anything else I may be overlooking?
 
Agree with @Quik , you can get accepted with the minimum; many, many do. It's in your best interest for both acceptance AND future to have a handle on other important bio classes.

Biochem is a must for your 2015+ MCAT. I found Anatomy and Physiology VERY helpful also. I would have taken micro, had I had the time. Stats was another quality course to have, as many schools require 3+ credits of math.
 
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I'd definiately think that Anatomy and Physiology should be considered almost a pre-req.
 
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I'm also about to start all the required Chem, Physics and Bio courses and hope to finish spring 2016. I really hope it will be enough preparation for the new MCAT, and I still have to find a semester to squeeze in Biochem. Good luck!
 
Depending on when you first did undergrad, there are some pretty awesome resources available online if you need a little extra help outside of class that might not have been around when you first went through. Free stuff, things like Khan a Academy, YouTube tutorials, etc.
 
Depending on when you first did undergrad, there are some pretty awesome resources available online if you need a little extra help outside of class that might not have been around when you first went through. Free stuff, things like Khan a Academy, YouTube tutorials, etc.
Thanks for the heads-up. That's a really good idea. I'll definitely do some good diggin on the internet for some resource help.
 
Thanks for the thoughts thus far. I do have a bachelors and it is in social work. Clinical experience is covered as an emt. Shooting for 1.5 years I think. Anything else I may be overlooking?

Just a few more things. You're GPA isn't bad, but it isn't exactly competitive. You're going to want to build a robust application that says you're an all-star type person to stand out among the gunners. You don't have any volunteer activities mentioned and this is a pretty big space on the application. As the adcom at my state school put it, "We're looking for applicants who display a demeanor for a lifelong service to medicine and the community." When I asked her how much clinical experience was considered enough... "You can never have too much clinical experience". Volunteering in a clinical setting kills two birds with one stone.

Research: Schools weigh this differently, though it's definitely an asset to have on your application regardless of where you apply. It is the one gap on my application that I'm actively looking to fill. You'll want to strategize when you can work this into your schedule, but start thinking about it and looking for opportunities.

One last thing; don't ever be dissuaded by the idea that this is too much and will take FOREVER before you get there. It won't; it will take a few years of your life to get app ready, then a few more to get through med school. These first few years of pre-reqs are part of the process; just miles of the marathon that is becoming a doctor. It's exciting, enlightening, and rewarding all at the same time. Also, take advantage of the bits of free time that you can afford to have fun. I like to include these notions in my own strategy. Fortitude and perseverance have got to be included. Oh, and don't forget a little bit of confidence and a whole lotta diligence.
 
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One last thing; don't ever be dissuaded by the idea that this is too much and will take FOREVER before you get there. It won't; it will take a few years of your life to get app ready, then a few more to get through med school. These first few years of pre-reqs are part of the process; just miles of the marathon that is becoming a doctor. It's exciting, enlightening, and rewarding all at the same time. Also, take advantage of the bits of free time that you can afford to have fun. I like to include these notions in my own strategy. Fortitude and perseverance have got to be included. Oh, and don't forget a little bit of confidence and a whole lotta diligence.

This was beautiful
 
I have a question on this too.

I finish my undergrad degree in business in November-- I only have 1 class left to finish that degree.


I'm thinking about either working for the year and starting a diy post bacc in June or volunteering and shadowing this fall and starting in January at CU Boulder.

My ECs are not that stellar yet:
Volunteering at Children's Hospital Colorado (from 2007-2012) I have no clue how many hours that would be
and shadowing an orthopedic surgeon and vascular malformation specialist in August.

I was thinking about volunteering at a new hospital in the fall or working as a medical scribe for the year. Thoughts?? I'm in Denver right now and would be moving to Boulder.
 
Just a few more things. You're GPA isn't bad, but it isn't exactly competitive. You're going to want to build a robust application that says you're an all-star type person to stand out among the gunners. You don't have any volunteer activities mentioned and this is a pretty big space on the application. As the adcom at my state school put it, "We're looking for applicants who display a demeanor for a lifelong service to medicine and the community." When I asked her how much clinical experience was considered enough... "You can never have too much clinical experience". Volunteering in a clinical setting kills two birds with one stone.

Research: Schools weigh this differently, though it's definitely an asset to have on your application regardless of where you apply. It is the one gap on my application that I'm actively looking to fill. You'll want to strategize when you can work this into your schedule, but start thinking about it and looking for opportunities.

One last thing; don't ever be dissuaded by the idea that this is too much and will take FOREVER before you get there. It won't; it will take a few years of your life to get app ready, then a few more to get through med school. These first few years of pre-reqs are part of the process; just miles of the marathon that is becoming a doctor. It's exciting, enlightening, and rewarding all at the same time. Also, take advantage of the bits of free time that you can afford to have fun. I like to include these notions in my own strategy. Fortitude and perseverance have got to be included. Oh, and don't forget a little bit of confidence and a whole lotta diligence.
Quik,

My apologies for the terrible manners in delaying my response to your very thoughtful response. I truly appreciate your candor and encouragement. The latter of which really was taken to heart at a time when I was ripe to hear it as this process, particularly with the new MCAT changes, certainly feels like this all will take forever. Plus, it doesn't feel like it'll get much easier on the burden of my wife as time goes on I presume.

Now, as far as volunteering I have boat loads of volunteering as a social worker but really quite little in a strictly medical sense. What're your thoughts? Historically speaking, I have had a tougher time finding volunteer opportunities under said medical aspect than with social work; either I'm looking in the wrong places or my geographical catchment is completely devoid. Anything I can really look into I may not have?

For research, again, I do have a number of research experiences as a social worker but none within a confined medical sense. Thoughts?

Free time, I'm pretty good in that area I must say haha. But in all seriousness, I do very much agree with you that making a very intentional effort for yourself and your S.O. is wicked important for balance and sanity. Thankfully, both my wife and I are competitive rock climbers so there's a killing -two -birds-with-one-stone moment for ya haha. I'm really glad to hear that this aspect is vital in your life perspective as well.
 
So I have finally quit my job and started to take some classes, eg. Gen Chem, and wanted to know from other non-trads if doing the minimum required classes of 1 yr bio, 1 yr physics, and 2 yrs chem (through o-chem) is too little to be a successful candidate for med school or would you advise on taking more classes? Thanks.

I took 1 science class in undergrad (astronomy, though I did have many math/stats classes with A's), and then just took the bare minimum science classes (+biochem) in my DIY-post-bac. I did decent enough on the MCAT and well in med school.

I don't see how taking upper level classes will help you get into med school, nor will help you all that much while in medical school. I just don't see adcom's scrutinizing over your every class, especially if you have decent GPA's to start with. I never did when I was a student interviewing perspective med students.

As far as success in med school, don't believe you have to take upper levels to be successful or to have some sort of "greater appreciation for the material." That's just silly. Med school is just wrote memorization BS - nothing more, nothing less. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to understand the majority of material in medical school. Yeah, I struggled in anatomy, but I got a solid high-pass in it despite my struggles - it just took me more time than most others. I actually had one of the highest scores in my med school in genetics despite never taking it before. I honored microbio despite never taking it.

In my opinion, your time is much better spent on diversifying your app w/ volunteer or research or work experience or MCAT studying or re-taking classes with poor grades or whatever over taking a boring class that probably won't help....and getting a B in an upper level class will certainly hurt you. High risk, low reward, seems like a no-brainer to me. Studying for the MCAT is the best way to get a better MCAT, not taking cell bio.
 
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Quik,

My apologies for the terrible manners in delaying my response to your very thoughtful response. I truly appreciate your candor and encouragement. The latter of which really was taken to heart at a time when I was ripe to hear it as this process, particularly with the new MCAT changes, certainly feels like this all will take forever. Plus, it doesn't feel like it'll get much easier on the burden of my wife as time goes on I presume.

No offense taken, thank you for circling back and showing your appreciation! As per your questions, here's my opinion.

Regarding volunteer experiences, it doesn't necessarily matter if yours are medical related. You just want to prove that you are a person committed to the betterment of the community and are willing to sacrifice your time to that good. However, clinical experience is absolutely critical for your application. Whether it be volunteering, shadowing, paid, etc, you need to support your decision to pursue medicine with actual time in a clinical setting, interacting with patients while seeing what the role of a physician is like. Being a social worker, I'm sure you have countless hours with 'patients/clients' which does help, however you will still need some clinical experience and you can get this in a variety of ways... If you have a good amount of volunteer experience I'd suggest contacting some Docs in your area, introduce yourself with your resume, and ask to shadow. Don't go to a random hospital, ask to volunteer, and spend a hundred hours in a gift shop... not going to help you much. Getting actual volunteer clinical experience in a hospital is becoming incredibly more difficult, especially without credentials like an EMT or CNA.

As per research, it need not be medical related, but should be empirical in nature. Research isn't a must, but it's definitely an advantage to have it.

Did you say professional rock climber? Awesome... I'm just on the other side of Tahoe and do my share of climbing and bouldering when I get the time, which is rare anymore, but I have had a good number of days on my mtn bike this summer.

As far as success in med school, don't believe you have to take upper levels to be successful or to have some sort of "greater appreciation for the material." That's just silly. Med school is just wrote memorization BS - nothing more, nothing less. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to understand the majority of material in medical school. Yeah, I struggled in anatomy, but I got a solid high-pass in it despite my struggles - it just took me more time than most others. I actually had one of the highest scores in my med school in genetics despite never taking it before. I honored microbio despite never taking it.

In my opinion, your time is much better spent on diversifying your app w/ volunteer or research or work experience or MCAT studying or re-taking classes with poor grades or whatever over taking a boring class that probably won't help....and getting a B in an upper level class will certainly hurt you. High risk, low reward, seems like a no-brainer to me. Studying for the MCAT is the best way to get a better MCAT, not taking cell bio.

I'm not meaning to challenge your perspective, you have valid points especially in considering the most valuable use of time, but I've heard contrary statements from the cohort of med students that I have the luxury of gaining advice from who seem to think the UD courses like biochem, metabolic regulation, immunology, virology, A&P, etc. gave them a pretty big advantage going into certain blocks, simply being that wrote memorization is easier after seeing material twice and already having the concept down. That said, this sample of students only includes those from a school which requires upper division sciences for acceptance, so it's difficult to compare with the perspective of someone who took the minimum standard pre-reqs and determine if either are truly better off. As a screening tool for acceptance, I would say it purely depends on the applicant. If like me, they have a fairly mediocre GPA from undergrad (low ~3.xx), then kicking ass in upper division sciences will certainly help prove the question that said applicant can handle rigorous science courses and excel when that is otherwise shadowed by their UG performance. It has been stressed again and again by adcoms whom I've spoken with that for non-traditional students, they would like to see more than the minimum.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Great info. Much appreciated.

I wish I could be professional skill wise but I can't imagine the pay being terribly good haha. So no, not professional, just a strong competition climber. I'm just over the hills from you in central CA. My wife and I gave definitely enjoyed some bouldering in your neck of the woods.
 
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