Clinical science program with scientist practitioner goals

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elpenguinoloco

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My main source of hesitation with a school where I have held an offer for quite a while now has been its research-heavy clinical science model. Now that things are getting down to the wire, I'm wondering how this program would fit if my wait list program does not work out.

I am interested in clinical work. It's why I got into this field and I enjoy it very much. That said, I am not a "just wanna go do therapy" person. The science piece of things is incredibly important to me, and I feel very strongly that clinical work should be informed by research, clinicians should know how to conduct and digest research, etc. I understand that research is necessary to produce the empirical evidence that forms the foundation of our field. I am open to conducting research after grad school, so long as it's complemented by clinical work.

When I was looking at schools, I looked first at research fit and second at program orientation (with scientist-practitioner as ideal). I saw that the school where I now hold the offer was a clinical science model (7 on insider's guide), but the research fit was absolutely ideal, so I thought I would apply anyway. At the interview, I got along really well with the PI and think they would be a great mentor. They are very productive and well-respected in my subfield (as is the program as a whole). I would be funded on a research assistantship for a project I'm really excited about and would probably involve some clinical work.

At the interview, the program was very clear about their focus on training people to go into tenure-track research or AMC positions and explicitly stated they're not into training people for primarily clinical settings. The clinical training seems to be quite good as well, though, as it begins in first year and I don't think students have issues getting enough clinical hours. My main concern is that I'd be pretty unable to be upfront about career goals (I spoke to a couple of students with clinical goals, but they were pretty hush-hush about it) and potential tension with my mentor if they knew what I wanted to do. I like research. I just like clinical work more.

I don't want to go to grad school just because I got in to a program, but the thought of applying again next year is really daunting and there truly were very few schools that met my criteria in the first place (most of the schools with PIs that focus on my area are research-heavy clinical science). Words of wisdom would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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Just out of curiosity, what are your career goals? You stated that you are not a "just wanna go do therapy person", and clearly it sounds like you are also not a "just wanna go do research person", so where would you like to be after your graduate training and what would you like to be doing?

I know you also said you are open to conducting research complemented by clinical work, but have you thought about what that would look like or in what setting that might be?
 
I personally think you should take it as long as they are providing good clinical training too (which it sounds like you think they are). I'm getting ready to head out for internship now, and my career goals have changed at least 3 times since I've been in grad school. Research and clinical work were both very different experiences from my pre-grad school exposure and my thoughts of what I'd prefer and why have not really been congruent with my actual experience. If you go this route, you pretty much have no doors shut to you and that is an excellent position to be in. That + full funding is the dream situation. Congratulations and best of luck!
 
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Getting into a fully-funded PhD program in clinical psychology is an accomplishment and a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. I wouldn't think that you would need to be secretive about your interests outside of academia and research. I would suggest cultivating an air of neutrality and openness to experience and career paths. That is probably more genuine and is also in line with how many suggest we approach therapy. :) Sometimes referred to as having a "beginners mind".
 
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The advice I've received from mentors and supervisors has been along the same lines--i.e. that going to a clinical science program doesn't close any doors in that I can always move from the research end of things toward clinical work, but the opposite wouldn't be possible.

The psychologist who supervises my clinical work runs a successful private practice doing evaluations and EBTs for the population I work with. They've told me I have a knack for the clinical side of things and that even if I wanted to do PP eventually, this program would still help get me where I want to go.

It's a generous offer with a solid stipend, and I realize that's tough to come by. Appreciate the responses!
 
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I guess that would be a question I have: there must be primarily clinical settings beyond AMCs that allow people to focus on empirically validated clinical work and maybe do a little research on the side without feeling pressured to spend 80 hours a week writing grants until I die. Hospitals maybe?

VA Medical Centers
 
Erg, those appeal to me greatly, but I will get a little more specific and say that the disorder I focus on is largely developmental.
 
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Erg, those appeal to me greatly, but I will get a little more specific and say that the disorder I focus on is largely developmental (though more and more adults are being diagnosed).

If its AD/HD you are talking about, then there is no shortage "attention problems" being endorsed. :) Not much need for fundable research in this enviornment though.
 
It certainly sounds like in every other way this program is a good fit for you. Of course, as a clinical science program, the emphasis is going to be geared more toward research than practice, but even if it wasn't the ideal balance you were looking for, there will still be a focus on clinical issues.

So ultimately, however you shake it, the program and the training will prepare you to conduct clinical work, both professionally and in a research capacity.
 
Yes, I'm glad the program fits well in so many other ways. It's not at the top of my list geographically, but I'm beginning to realize it's going to be tough to have any say in that matter moving forward and looking toward internship, postdoc, etc.

Starting to feel better about this option, even if I'm still hoping for an 11th hour acceptance at another program. Time will tell!
 
I'm on internship now but had a very similar scenario when I was deciding on grad school a million years ago. I ended up going to a clinical science, research-heavy program that had a similar air of needing to be hush-hush about one's desire to do any clinical work at all. At the same time, we got a lot of clinical hours (some of varying quality, but I think many programs deal with this, since they can't directly control external externships). I matched to a well-regarded VA internship with very strong clinical training and some protected research time and will be going to a prestigious (in my specialized area) clinical postdoc which also has some protected research time. I think I would have had a harder time getting either of these positions if I had gone to a less rigorous grad program. I haven't always been happy with grad school, especially with the "all research all the time" mentality, but I suspect I would've been similarly happy and unhappy, albeit in a different way, anywhere else.
 
As I have recently said in another thread, the mentor relationship is extremely important. If your research match is good, you LIKE your PI and you can see yourself doing that work for the next 6 years, a funded clinical science program isn't the worst thing in the world. You will have to be willing to do a bunch of research during graduate school and deal with the academia-AMC-or-bust mentality that can pervade these programs. You may get less "process" kinds of supervision if the faculty are doing the supervising (they often aren't at clinical science programs) but you can still get good clinical training. You may get judged for the time/attention you want to put into clinical work, but you'll likely have friends who also love clinical work at your program or others, and you can commiserate with them. Truth is that the modal career for PhD programs--even those with 6s or 7s on the insiders guide--is a clinical career.
 
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Thanks very much for the advice--it does make me feel better. I recall being told by the department head when I interviewed that "We are not in the business of training people to go into private practice". While that's somewhat uncomfortable to hear, I'm very excited to work with my new PI, who is great--warm, friendly, very willing to tailor mentoring style to student's preferences. They also have a PP on the side (?!). I guess nothing is black and white. I couldn't imagine a more ideal research match, and will be funded through an RAship on a project I'm really excited about.

I would also like to think I can make room in the program to do things a little more my way, as you mention. I can deal with being judged for an interest in clinical work, and I also hope that my philosophy when it comes to work (i.e. that there is more to life) will not make me a total outsider at the program. We'll see!
 
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