College Trouble and Applications

[MrWonderfulz]

so this is a post for my older sister. She's a senior in the same college as me, and recently I asked her to get me and a couple friends booze since she is 22 and she brought it into the dorms. Unfortunately, an RA in my dorm spotted her and she got a write up that was forwarded to the dean. She got charged for proving alcohol to minors by the school but fortunately, the people in charge of the punishments only gave her a warning since I went to the hearing and said it was my fault. This warning apparently didn't go on her disciplinary record and its not considered official disciplinary action according to the school policy but it is still on file with the dean for reference if she gets in trouble again.

She's applying to med school this year depending on how she does on her big test and shes worried sick that this incident might ruin her chances. The dean said she doesn't have to report it if she doesn't want to, but when she asked her premed adviser, the adviser said that she must report it and it would be dishonest if she doesn't. when she told the adviser that the dean said she doesn't have to report it, the adviser apparently got angry and said that she could get kicked out of medical school anytime if a school finds out about it and with those ethics she'll never be a doctor . I don't know the adviser personally but my sister says she needs a committee letter or something from her.

Do any of you have advice I can give my sister? I feel as if she shouldnt have to report this and I looked online and it seems as this forum is the expert in all things premed. I feel pretty bad for convincing her to buy me and my friends booze. She was really against it and now she's worried sick.

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[QuinnTheEskimo]

I don't have any advice but that RA SUCKS!!!! Wow!

I have no idea what the policy is about reporting warnings. It would seem to me that a warning is a warning and does not need to be reported, but what do I know.

 

[Reckoner]

I don't think any of us will be able to give her better advice than the dean who holds the incriminating file. It's hard to imagine s/he would tell your sister it doesn't need to be reported and then give that information to medical schools, unless I'm missing something here.

 

[SN12357]

I don't think any of us will be able to give her better advice than the dean who holds the incriminating file. It's hard to imagine s/he would tell your sister it doesn't need to be reported and then give that information to medical schools, unless I'm missing something here.

Well, the situation has apparently gotten an extra wrinkle already in that the adviser (who presumably will oversee the committee letter) knows about it. So if she doesn't report it but it ends up being mentioned in the committee letter, that's a bad situation for her even if the dean (who may or may not have any medical school specific experience) signs off on not reporting it.

Tough situation. @LizzyM, @gyngyn?

 

[Reckoner]

Well, the situation has apparently gotten an extra wrinkle already in that the adviser (who presumably will oversee the committee letter) knows about it. So if she doesn't report it but it ends up being mentioned in the committee letter, that's a bad situation for her even if the dean (who may or may not have any medical school specific experience) signs off on not reporting it.

Tough situation. @LizzyM, @gyngyn?

That's a good point. She might have made her situation worse by bringing it up to the advisor, honestly.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

That's a good point. She might have made her situation worse by bringing it up to the advisor, honestly.

This.

From your post, it sounds like she asked the dean if she needed to report it, and he said NO. Then she went ahead and asked her pre-med adviser.

Why???? It sounds like she wants to report it, so maybe she should.

 

[MrWonderfulz]

This.

From your post, it sounds like she asked the dean if she needed to report it, and he said NO. Then she went ahead and asked her pre-med adviser.

Why???? It sounds like she wants to report it, so maybe she should.

I don't know the details exactly or what goes on in my sister's head. she was just probably really worried or something. I still don't know why the adviser acted like such a dick. Unlike me, my sister is hardworking and it bothers me to see that I might have jeopardized her goals.

 

[chenzt]

.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

I don't know the details exactly or what goes on in my sister's head. she was just probably really worried or something. I still don't know why the adviser acted like such a dick. Unlike me, my sister is hardworking and it bothers me to see that I might have jeopardized her goals.

I don't think med schools take alcohol violations like this too seriously. Most adcoms went to school when the drinking age was 18 anyway.

If she had multiple DWIs or something, that's a different story. But a 22 yo buying beer for a 19 yo? Come on.

 

[DokterMom]

The dean said she doesn't have to report it if she doesn't want to, but when she asked her premed adviser, the adviser said that she must report it and it would be dishonest if she doesn't. when she told the adviser that the dean said she doesn't have to report it, the adviser apparently got angry and said that she could get kicked out of medical school anytime if a school finds out about it and with those ethics she'll never be a doctor . I don't know the adviser personally but my sister says she needs a committee letter or something from her.

If the adviser knows and the adviser says she has to report it, she'd better report it -- or else the committee letter the adviser writes is likely to burn her. Sounds like the adviser is way out on the uptight spectrum, and your sister would have been much better off not having sought her counsel. But since she did, she better admit it now...

A good spin would be that she acted against her better judgement because it was her brother who asked and she knew him to be 'mature and responsible for his age'. But that she definitely learned her lesson and will therefore be prepared for the next time a friend or family member asks her to bend the rules 'just a little bit' and will know better than to agree to it.

 

[chenzt]

If the adviser knows and the adviser says she has to report it, she'd better report it -- or else the committee letter the adviser writes is likely to burn her. Sounds like the adviser is way out on the uptight spectrum, and your sister would have been much better off not having sought her counsel. But since she did, she better admit it now...

A good spin would be that she acted against her better judgement because it was her brother who asked and she knew him to be 'mature and responsible for his age'. But that she definitely learned her lesson and will therefore be prepared for the next time a friend or family member asks her to bend the rules 'just a little bit' and will know better than to agree to it.

How would an advisor know you didn't reported it? It's not like they will be able to see a copy of the amcas app.

 

[Reckoner]

How would an advisor know you didn't reported it? It's not like they will be able to see a copy of the amcas app.

At my school we had to send our pre-med committee a copy of our submitted application before they would begin writing our letters.

 

[chenzt]

At my school we had to send our pre-med committee a copy of our submitted application before they would begin writing our letters.

Ah. I guess it depends then. My premed committee had no idea what was on my amcas app but instead had to write five essays so they could get to know me.

 

[darklabel]

Funny how the only reason alcohol age was increased was because of young people driving drunk and now it's because something something "protect the youth", "brains developing" and other garbage

Anyways, do you have a committee letter? Because I didn't and just sought out the teachers individually and I got in. If the premed advisor isn't part of the committee then she is also fine. Her biggest mistake was talking to the advisor, but it sounds like your sis is a real straight shooter.

If the dean says not to mention it, then just don't. Admission committees don't have any magical power of seeing this sort of stuff and if it doesn't turn up on the transcript, background check or any letter of recommendation, then its better not to report it. Doing so will leave her with a negative on her application and even though it is a very minor one, unless she has stellar numbers and ECs, you don't want to have any negatives with so many other excellent applicants that don't have any.

Good luck to your sis! My sis happily bought me beer when I was underage Thank god I'm 23 and done with that nonsense.

 

[MrWonderfulz]

yeah, i have no clue how the adviser letter and all that works, but she's worried that she might get kicked out of medical school halfway through if the school finds out she didn't report this. is this even a possibility? i'm telling her she's being paranoid but i have no clue how stringent medical school is and if they can just kick someone out like that for something so minor and unclear

 

[LizzyM]

Bring booze to kids who aren't supposed to have it does show poor judgment. How will she behave when she has access to a prescription pad and people who want her do to them a favor? Taking the blame for her does not lessen what she did; I think it makes her look worse as it makes her out to be a weak person who won't say "no" to a younger sibling who asks her to do something illegal. In general, getting written up for booze is not a big deal on a med school application but most of the stories are not like this one which does give me pause.

 

[Shaq]

in these situations, it is better to fess up and have the premedical dean explain it in the letter. on the off chance that they figure this out later on, it could be bad for your sister. i honestly don't think it will matter too much... i know people who have had such blemishes on their record and still obtained seats at solid medical schools.

 

[Shaq]

it will come up during her interviews though, so she MUST be prepared to explain it. she can't make excuses. just admit that what she did was wrong, what she learned from it, and how she has grown from the experience. that is the best way to handle this!

 

[MedPhys2MD]

Your sister got lucky. Buying alcohol for underage persons is against the law, not just institutional policy

 

[Captain Sisko]

Your sister has issues with discretion- if she had the beer in a shopping bag she wouldn't have been caught, and if she didn't ask her advisor for a second opinion after talking to the Dean she wouldn't have this problem.

It hurts but I doubt it's fatal.

 

[BlueLabel]

I recommend that your sis speak to the dean about the possibility of expunging the warning from her record. If this is possible, not only does it eliminate the possibility of it "coming up later"; she can also provide documentation to that effect to the premed advisor, thus ensuring that she will not make any mention of it in the committee letter. In general, I have found that universities want their alumni to succeed in life, and won't hold something like this against you if there is a real chance it could hamper your future success (of course, they take a much harder line against academic misconduct as they should). So I think the dean will likely be willing to work with your sister. Even if a full expunction is not possible in this case, I think your sis should explain the situation with the advisor and committee letter to the dean. Perhaps he can help in some other way - like sending a note to the advisor indicating that this isn't an actual IA. It sounds like the dean is trying to give your sister a chance here, so I think this plan is worth a try. In any event, I think your sister should try as hard as she can and explore every possible recourse to avoid mentioning this on her application.

That said, purchasing alcohol for minors, though a victimless crime, is illegal. She needs to exercise better judgment and remember that for the profession she wants to get into, it is far, far wiser to stay on the straight and narrow.

Best of luck to her.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Bluelabel gives good advice and a path towards peace of mind. Worrying about this is not something you want while applying.

 

[dancingmate]

If it is not on her record, maybe she doesn't have to report it. But, if the premedical advisor is going to definitely discuss it in the committee letter, I strongly advise that she report it in her application.

 

[V5RED]

I don't have any advice but that RA SUCKS!!!! Wow!

I have no idea what the policy is about reporting warnings. It would seem to me that a warning is a warning and does not need to be reported, but what do I know.

I am an RA, and I would have reported this too. It is pretty black and white. If you bring alcohol into a dry dorm and an RA sees you, the RA has to report it.

From a self-preservation perspective, imagine if the RA didn't report it and the older sister mentioned getting away with it to the younger sister. That could eventually(and probably would) get to the RA's supervisor and the RA would be fired. Things like this have happened at my school, when an RA breaks the rules it gets to the bosses faster than you would believe.

From an ethical perspective, we are paid in room and board to do a particular job. Campus Living lived up to their end of the agreement, so we owe it to Campus Living to hold up our end. We also owe it to the parents and the kids living in the dorms. People pay for their kids to live in a place with particular rules and parents expect that someone is enforcing the rules so their kids can actually study in their dorm. It isn't fair to the kids who want to be responsible students if the RAs just let the place be lawless.

With respect to warnings, there are no warnings for drug or alcohol violations, but for things that are warnings we still document it. The warning goes into a computer database so that if multiple RAs "warn" someone for the same thing, our boss knows the person isn't getting the hint and those "warnings" become full writeups. If, however, the person does not repeat the violation, the warning simply vanishes and there is no record.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

I am an RA, and I would have reported this too. It is pretty black and white. If you bring alcohol into a dry dorm and an RA sees you, the RA has to report it.

From a self-preservation perspective, imagine if the RA didn't report it and the older sister mentioned getting away with it to the younger sister. That could eventually(and probably would) get to the RA's supervisor and the RA would be fired. Things like this have happened at my school, when an RA breaks the rules it gets to the bosses faster than you would believe.

From an ethical perspective, we are paid in room and board to do a particular job. Campus Living lived up to their end of the agreement, so we owe it to Campus Living to hold up our end. We also owe it to the parents and the kids living in the dorms. People pay for their kids to live in a place with particular rules and parents expect that someone is enforcing the rules so their kids can actually study in their dorm. It isn't fair to the kids who want to be responsible students if the RAs just let the place be lawless.

With respect to warnings, there are no warnings for drug or alcohol violations, but for things that are warnings we still document it. The warning goes into a computer database so that if multiple RAs "warn" someone for the same thing, our boss knows the person isn't getting the hint and those "warnings" become full writeups. If, however, the person does not repeat the violation, the warning simply vanishes and there is no record.

I didn't go to a dry school, and the RAs and campus police definitely turned a blind eye to any drinking in the dorms. The policy was "out of sight, out of mind" as long as you're not causing bodily harm to anyone else. I would have been seriously shocked if an RA reported a student for possession of alcohol. I guess different schools are different.