Concerning caseload: Is bigger always better?

[Gluffalo]

Hey gang,

I've been thinking on this question for a little while and would be interested to hear some input - from current students, applicants, anyone!

As stated in the title, is a bigger caseload always better in terms of getting both hands-on experience as a student, while working closely with senior faculty? I ask because there must be some minimum threshold where the students will have their own cases to manage, while being able to readily access senior faculty for help. As the caseload increases, are these faculty/interns/residents too busy to give the students their proper time? Or, for places that have high caseload, is there enough support staff/full time clinicians to manage the additional volume, so that teaching faculty can focus on their students just as much as their work.

Any insight would be appreciated!

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[WhtsThFrequency]

Oh god, no. Bigger is not always better, no way.

On crazy weeks, I would have a very hard time paying attention to all the students at once. If it was a week or two into the rotation, they were usually adept at the basic techniques and didn't need me, but if it was too early on I found myself running around like crazy in between groups. I didn't like it and neither did they.

You never want to feel overwhelmed or underwhelmed. Just whelmed is fine, thank you.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Related to caseload....on the Michigan State 2018 applicants thread, a current student brought up the fact that sometimes, the case load is too SMALL. Students end up standing around. Is this a common occurrence at other schools? This concerns me more than having too many cases.

 

[cowdoctr]

Related to caseload....on the Michigan State 2018 applicants thread, a current student brought up the fact that sometimes, the case load is too SMALL. Students end up standing around. Is this a common occurrence at other schools? This concerns me more than having too many cases.

Same.. I'm more concerned about caseload that is too small

 

[that redhead]

I know some people at AVC have been frustrated by small caseload before.

 

[LetItSnow]

I think the absolute caseload, isolated from other info, isn't useful. The student:instructor ratio matters, as does student:case, as does the number of interns and residents, etc etc.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I think the absolute caseload, isolated from other info, isn't useful. The student:instructor ratio matters, as does student:case, as does the number of interns and residents, etc etc.

Sorry for the unclear post....the vet student said there were too many students FOR the small caseloads. And that it happens more in the spring when it is both 3rd and 4th years on the same rotation. Is an overabundance of students in rotations common at other schools? I have been told several times that recent graduates are coming out with disappointing clinical skill levels (as a general population). Could this be why?

 

[bunnity]

Penn has the biggest small animal caseload (that I'm aware of) and it's a mixed bag. You get exposure to a ton of cases, you get a lot of opportunities to practice talking to clients, PEs, and clinical skills, but you also get super overworked (though I can't really compare that to other schools since the case responsibilities and treatment/call shifts are probably pretty different between schools, but I have heard externs from other schools comment that we have it pretty hard) and if the caseload maxes out at a certain point your clinicians ignore you and all you do is chase them around all day trying to get them to sign stuff. On one hand I'm grateful for the repertoire of cases that I can look back at to help me remember what to do with XYZ condition but on the other hand I feel like a worker drone a lot of the time. And I think there are a lot of other factors like how much your clinicians like to teach, how much initiative you take, how well your school is organized, etc that will affect your learning just as much as caseload.

 

[Minnerbelle]

A lil too big is better than a lil too small. But when caseload is really high, I feel like students tend to become worker drones only focused on menial tasks and paper pushing than someone there to learn. It really sucks when it's so busy that you don't even get to really discuss the medical aspects of your cases, and the limited time you have with the clinician is just to confirm the long list of to-do's. but as bunnity said, it's not so much about the absolute case numbers that affect this. A lot of it is very dept dependent, in terms of their efficiency, service structure, and teaching philosophy. It's also very clinician dependent.

 

[Gluffalo]

Penn has the biggest small animal caseload (that I'm aware of) and it's a mixed bag. You get exposure to a ton of cases, you get a lot of opportunities to practice talking to clients, PEs, and clinical skills, but you also get super overworked (though I can't really compare that to other schools since the case responsibilities and treatment/call shifts are probably pretty different between schools, but I have heard externs from other schools comment that we have it pretty hard) and if the caseload maxes out at a certain point your clinicians ignore you and all you do is chase them around all day trying to get them to sign stuff. On one hand I'm grateful for the repertoire of cases that I can look back at to help me remember what to do with XYZ condition but on the other hand I feel like a worker drone a lot of the time. And I think there are a lot of other factors like how much your clinicians like to teach, how much initiative you take, how well your school is organized, etc that will affect your learning just as much as caseload.

Okay, thanks for the insight. Penn is up on my list (being my IS), but I hear it's a very book-heavy curriculum. I guess I get worried about how much hands on experience I can get.

 

[orca2011]

Okay, thanks for the insight. Penn is up on my list (being my IS), but I hear it's a very book-heavy curriculum. I guess I get worried about how much hands on experience I can get.

You can get it if you take advantage of wet labs and clubs. It's not written into the curriculum, but I don't think opportunities are particularly lacking.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Sorry for the unclear post....the vet student said there were too many students FOR the small caseloads. And that it happens more in the spring when it is both 3rd and 4th years on the same rotation. Is an overabundance of students in rotations common at other schools? I have been told several times that recent graduates are coming out with disappointing clinical skill levels (as a general population). Could this be why?

Hm. That's the opposite of what I've heard from my friends in practice. Usually, new vets are most lacking in client communication, staff management, record keeping, etc. - the "soft skills"

I think people worry way too much about acquiring clinical skills. You'll learn more clinical skills with a proper mentor on your first job than you could hope to learn in vet school. Not to say you don't need to know basic procedures, but no one is going to expect you to fly solo on a TPLO right out of the gate.