Conflicted between two programs for my RoL, any inputs?

[GamerShrink]

Hi! I'm close to finalizing my RoL to submit next month.

For a bit more context, I am a visa-requiring IMG who would prefer a good working environment first and foremost, then living in a city, and finally, an H1 visa. In that order of preference.

The programs I'm conflicted between are Elmhurst in NYC (this is the first year they're participating in the NRMP Match) and MetroHealth in Cleveland.

- I will start by saying I had an enjoyable interview day at MetroHealth overall. Everyone was genuinely friendly to talk to and sounded enthusiastic, and everything was well organized.

- Both are university-affiliated community programs with a clearly busy workload. I have heard rumors about the workload being a bit too much in MetroHealth and the scutwork being a possibility, and while I initially expected that to be a reality for the NYC program, talking to faculty at Elmhurst, it turns out there isn't much of that over there.

- I haven't been to Cleveland, ever, and I am hearing the area of Cleveland Heights, and MetroHealth isn't the safest. Relatively speaking, the area of Elmhurst in NYC is on the safer side from what I have heard, although I haven't been there either. How much of this is accurate, and how much can the alleged "safety" be a concern for a newcomer to either place?

I would appreciate anyone who knows about the programs in recent times reaching out/commenting. Thank you.

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[SubzDoc]

I lived in Brooklyn for a while and did some psych rotations as a med student at QHC. While I hated living in NYC in general, I enjoyed my QHC rotations and it seemed like Queens would have been much easier to live in than where I was (bushwick/bed stuy). The pace at those rotations and at those hospitals in general seemed at least a little slower than at the Brooklyn hospitals although I didn't interact with the residents much.

I did residency not too far from MetroHealth but I honestly forgot they even had a psychiatry residency. The Cleveland area has a fairly low COL and IMHO is a great place to live. I never felt unsafe in the midwest although I agree parts have a bad reputation.

If you like living in cities, Cleveland is not much of a city. Both Queens and Cleveland give you some city amenities without exactly being smack dab in the middle of a big city. As someone who does not like cities, that appeals to me, although maybe less to you. Honestly, they both sound like good options, congrats on getting those interviews and good luck with the match.

 

[ObsequiousAplomb]

I agree with SubzDoc. Back when I was looking 5 years ago the impression of Metro was that it was a heavier workload than the program that Subz went to (and I did medical school) but that the quality of training was similar. Back then they had beeper call a fair amount. My peers who went there really liked it and are all very happy with where they are professionally.

Metro just opened a beautiful new psych facility. My brother works for Metro in a non-clinical role and he is pretty neutral about it (I can't think of a more glowing recommendation, coming from him).

If you go to Metro for residency, don't live near it. Cleveland is set up much better for commuters than anywhere in NYC is. For example, commuting from Canton, which is 50 miles away, is less than 50 minutes. Commuting from nicer parts of Cleveland are also not bad at all. Compare that to other cities where across town takes an hour.

 

[forchinet121]

MetroHealth program does have a heavy workload from what I’ve heard

 

[GamerShrink]

I did residency not too far from MetroHealth but I honestly forgot they even had a psychiatry residency. The Cleveland area has a fairly low COL and IMHO is a great place to live. I never felt unsafe in the midwest although I agree parts have a bad reputation.

If you go to Metro for residency, don't live near it. Cleveland is set up much better for commuters than anywhere in NYC is. For example, commuting from Akron, which is 50 miles away, is less than 50 minutes. Commuting from nicer parts of Cleveland are also not bad at all. Compare that to other cities where across town takes an hour.

Thank you for these! It seems like the better bet is to not live near Metro if safety is a concern. I also heard on my interview day that traffic isn't much of an issue in Cleveland and difficulty in commute is not a thing I would have to worry about much. How would you comment on the weather? I also read on SDN in one of the prior years interview threads about how Cleveland is a "polarizing place to live", and am not sure what that meant.

MetroHealth program does have a heavy workload from what I’ve heard

On the interview day, people spoke about how some rotations (specifically, EM) are more challenging than others, which I think is a given for most places. The program, based on their schedule did seem like it has work hours and a load above average for psychiatry in general, but it ultimately did sound manageable. Talking to mentors who knew about the place from several years ago mentioned how back then, it used to be quite the workhorse, but also that they're not aware of the circumstances now. The "scare" from them partly prompted this post, and I remember hearing from one of them how Elmhurst had a "similar workload" as Metro. However, the vibes on the interview day were very different for both.

If you like living in cities, Cleveland is not much of a city. Both Queens and Cleveland give you some city amenities without exactly being smack dab in the middle of a big city.

I see. Yes, city life would be a big plus for me. One other thing, Elmhurst's salary for the PGY-1s is around 55k. That doesn't sound like a great amount considering the cost of living in NYC. I do think I would go far with the 60k salary in Cleveland with the low CoL.

Anyone else who can comment on Elmhurst and/or Metro? Responses so far are quite helpful; it was a good idea to ask here after all!

 

[ObsequiousAplomb]

In terms of weather, Cleveland has pretty significant lake effect. Compared to similar latitudes, it has warmer winters and cooler summers. That still means it gets below 0 F in the winter and can be over 100 F in the summers, just that it's more temperate than the rest of Ohio between Cleveland and Columbus. It's not as warm in the winter as Cincinnati. It has a great deal of snow from the lake effect, and the flakes are big and pretty.

In terms of culture, as one of the bigger cities in Ohio it's more liberal than the rural parts of the state, though nowhere near as liberal as the coastal cities. Because Ohio is in the rust belt and so many of the industries have left, the readily available and affordable housing make the cities surprisingly diverse as the immigrant populations are outpacing the historical ones. Rednecks in Ohio have slightly different accents. Otherwise, imo, it's a midwest state with midwest cities. The stringent laws on abortion and other hot-button political issues seem rather out-of-place in the metropolitan areas, but it's the way it is.

As an example of how affordable Cleveland is, if you're willing to drive 30 minutes you will be able to buy a house on that 60k salary without feeling house poor.