Confused student

[scsu_rgzv]

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting to the forums here. I am currently finishing my undergraduate in Community Psych at St. Cloud State in Minnesota. Next week, I have an interview for an MFT program at Argosy Twin Cities. I am really nervous, but I feel confident at the same time. After said interview, I meet with an admissions rep for their PsyD program (the Minnesota School of Professional Psychology). I guess the reason for this post is to receive some feedback about these two programs. I am more concerned with the PsyD program because I have heard some not-so-great things about it. Also, I would like to hear what you as a student asked the interviewers of your respective programs when you went in for an interview. Thanks!

Ryne

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[WisNeuro]

Oh god no, please stay away from the MSPP. That match rate does not rise above 30%. Not too mention that it's mean completion time is high for a PsyD. Not too mention that tuition is at least 37k a year, not counting other fees and books and such. It is not respected at all. I can all but guarantee that this will limit your employment opportunities throughout your career.

If you want to graduate with about 200k in loans that you will be paying off until you retire, go nuts. But, I would explore some other opportunities.

 

[VeryHopeful2010]

I do not know anything about MFT programs. However, I agree 100% with WisNeuro, steer clear of that PsyD program. The horrendous match rate and lack of respect for the program will make your future in the field uncertain - and unless you are independently wealthy, the debt will be crushing.

Go work in a lab for a year or two, or at least work in a clinical setting if research is not a priority for you. Then, apply to university-based PsyD programs.

 

[scsu_rgzv]

I looked at the APPIC match rates and they were quite high and have been raising steadily for the past few years. I know the APA match rate isn't the greatest, but it is decent. Also, in regards to tuition, the estimated tuition is about 118k for the entire program. I know that is high, but I have seen higher.
Here are the match rates:
2014 registered applicants:38, percent matched: 95%(36) percent not matched: 3%(1), percent withdrawn: 3%(1) accredited internship: 25%(9) non-accredited internship: 75%(27).
I know that that last number is low. With that being said, will being in a non-APA internship hurt me? And why do you feel that by receiving a degree from MSPP will limit my ability in the professional field?

 

[erg923]

You will find these issues rehashed all over this board. Just read these threads:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lies-deceits-more-of-the-same-from-argosy.1044582/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...te-of-a-professional-school-anything.1074315/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-many-non-apa-internship-sites-to-apply-to.1106220/

 

[WisNeuro]

Wait? Their last 4 years of match ranged from 15-29% how is that decent? 85% is decent. Anything under 60% is abysmal. Both having a non-APA internship and Argosy attached to your name will hurt you in the field. At the last few places I have been at, the vast majority of the applicants for the internship/postdoc positions from these schools were automatically rejected. In the past 4 years of reviewing, not a single one that was reviewed was accepted for internship or postdoc. I can not think of a single colleague at my last two places of employment from Argosy.

 

[cara susanna]

I looked at the APPIC match rates and they were quite high and have been raising steadily for the past few years. I know the APA match rate isn't the greatest, but it is decent. Also, in regards to tuition, the estimated tuition is about 118k for the entire program. I know that is high, but I have seen higher.
Here are the match rates:
2014 registered applicants:38, percent matched: 95%(36) percent not matched: 3%(1), percent withdrawn: 3%(1) accredited internship: 25%(9) non-accredited internship: 75%(27).
I know that that last number is low. With that being said, will being in a non-APA internship hurt me? And why do you feel that by receiving a degree from MSPP will limit my ability in the professional field?

I'd recommend looking at only APA-accredited internship match rates. And, yes, being in a non-APA internship limits your career options.

 

[VeryHopeful2010]

What is important in this field at the doctoral level is APA accreditation for the program and for internship (not APPIC only) and Argosy's internship match rates are very low. You could face difficulty with licensure, difficulty finding post docs and jobs, and will face an uphill battle to "prove yourself" from day 1.

erg provided some good links to explore this further.

If you are going to commit the time/effort/money to obtain a PsyD, obtaining the best education (you are going to be caring for/treating patients!) and attending a program that will set you up for success are key.

If you are an undergraduate as you say, you have time to make yourself more attractive to better PsyD programs. Or, perhaps you already a good candidate and need to then consider applying to different geographic areas. It's a good sign that you are researching these programs (and what matters in the field) before attending - though it can be hard to hear.

 

[CaliMac]

OP, just so you know: many of the people on this board who are vehemently opposed to the professional schools are the very same people who will be reviewing applications for doctorate programs, internships, post-docs, etc. Though I do not know them IRL, I believe they offer experienced, benevolent advice.

They formed these opinions while traveling through their own programs, competing with others of various training for positions, and now review applications from people with varying backgrounds.

Also, please do take the time to calculate debt load vs probable salary. It seems like "it could never happen to me" but often does just that. Planning a family? Buying a car or house? Living like your peers (adults vs students)? Debt makes all of these much much more difficult.

 

[WisNeuro]

Also, their "estimated tuition" is not even close to the real numbers when you look at the mean time of completion, yearly tuition, and associated fees. Remember, this is an institution that has been sued multiple times, and has had to pay millions in restitution for blatantly lying to their students.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

OP, just so you know: many of the people on this board who are vehemently opposed to the professional schools are the very same people who will be reviewing applications for doctorate programs, internships, post-docs, etc. Though I do not know them IRL, I believe they offer experienced, benevolent advice.

They formed these opinions while traveling through their own programs, competing with others of various training for positions, and now review applications from people with varying backgrounds.

100% accurate.

I've served on review committees (VA and 2 AMCs) for internships, fellowships, and faculty positions...and there is a high level of skepticism when it comes to applicants from professional programs. An applicant needs to be stellar to even make the first cut, and even then some places won't consider students from a professional program. I personally look at scholarship (published articles, book chapters, poster presentations, invited talks, etc) as a marker for involvement in the field. For internship I just wanted to see something...an article, a few posters, etc. It really isn't hard to get something during graduate school. Realistically a few posters is the absolute minimum, as knowing how to go through the most basic submission/review process is first year stuff. For fellowship I look for continued involvement in the field (e.g. work within a division, APA, state psych assoc, etc) and a more developed idea of what they want to do within the profession. Solid letters and polished sample reports/summaries/etc. are assumed at that level. A faculty position is mostly about need and fit....the need of the dept and the fit of the person within the dept. Just my 2 cents.

The tidbits about cost are also very important. If tuition is $100k+....that is nuts. Total cost will most likely be $200k+ once living expenses, compounded interest (Thanks Obama!), and other costs are included.