Cons of University of Southern California ?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

UsernameNeeded1

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I don't mean to offend anyone by putting the above title. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, as it's not my intention. Any help u can give me is much appreciated.

Just wanted to know what the cons of the University of Southern California dental school are, besides cost ?

thx a lot!

Members don't see this ad.
 
This one is going to get real ugly, but I'll start it off.

1. Location. Its in So Cal, and that isn't for everyone. (Full disclaimer, I'm attending UCI.)
 
Hi,

I don't mean to offend anyone by putting the above title. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, as it's not my intention. Any help u can give me is much appreciated.

Just wanted to know what the cons of the University of Southern California dental school are, besides cost ?

thx a lot!


Cons depend on you, PBL is one of the biggest complaints other than cost. Starting this year, they are cutting down a portion of the PBL curriculum and adding more lecture based components.

I personally know people who are 1st-> 2nd year and 4th year students. The amount of complaning that I have heard from these indiviudals doesn't even come close to the amount of complaining that i have seen in previous thread(s) that bash on USC. Everyone i personally know really enjoys going to USC. As far as location goes, you don thave to live in its immediate surroundings. There are many nice places to live a short distance away.

The only flaw that deters ME away from USC is its price.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
1. COST - it's 2nd most expensive dental school in the country at $380k!! Living expenses included of course ;) http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=912

2. Problem Based Learning (PBL) as the primary form of didactic learning - Some people love it, from the sounds of it a lot people hate it. There was dental student who posted here discussing, at great length, what he didn't like about the school. The title of the thread was something like "DON'T EVER COME TO USC!!!" Look it up.

3. Los Angeles - if you're from Southern Cal you'd probably be ecstatic to stay close to home. The school is in a pretty sketchy area though so it might not be for everyone.
 
I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned graduation rate (on time). It was 19% a couple years back.

And I echo the others also: COST.

Hup
 
Cons depend on you, PBL is one of the biggest complaints other than cost. Starting this year, they are cutting down a portion of the PBL curriculum and adding more lecture based components.

do you know how they are doing this. Like how often the lectures will be. I know currently PBL is three times a week and then lab on tues
 
I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned graduation rate (on time). It was 19% a couple years back.

And I echo the others also: COST.

Hup

The class of 2009 had approximately 90% on time graduation. If I'm not wrong for our class 2010, the rate is >90%. Most of us were done with all the clinical requirements by graduation (May 15th). I believe at this point, there are only a couple of us still in clinic finishing up.

And to answer the OP question, the cons of attending USC are

1. The thing that everybody dreads about; the cost. It's going to cost you quite a bit to go to this school as everybody already knows. I owe about 400k right now and to be honest, I'm really really worried about it. However, if you can get the military scholarship that'd help a lot since they pay the whole tuition plus you get a monthly stipend. Either that or you can select the IBR (Income-based repayment) plan after you graduate. With this type of plan, you pay back the loans according to the amount that you make. If you additional info on this, try this http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/IBRPlan.jsp

2. PBL. To be honest, a lot of us (class of 2010) hated PBL. For me personally, I really hated PBL. Don't get me wrong, PBL is good to a certain extent. However, I believe that with the PBL systems you're going to get "gaps" in your knowledge on a certain subject. I don't believe that your peer, someone with a similar amount of knowledge as you, after reading a few pages on a certain subject will become an expert and will be able to teach all that he/she learned to the whole group.

3. Competency exams. The exams are no joke as many of the current USC students in this forum will confirm it. The criteria here at USC is mush harsher than those you will see in boards such as WREB. To break it down, you have to do
-3 perio comps (a sophomore, junior, and senior),
-5 composite comps,
-2 amalgam comps (you will realize that nobody nowadays wants to do amalgam as our class struggled to find patient to fulfill this requirement. However, the administration saw the problem and allowed us to take that on mounted extracted teeth)
-3 cast preparation comps (preparing a tooth for a crown - this is the area that many of us struggled to get the right patient as there are specific criteria for the tooth to qualify)
-3 cementation comps (cementing the crowns)

4. # of clinical requirements. This used to be a huge problem for the class of '07 & '08. This was when we had that 19% on time graduation because they had way too many requirements. However for class of '09 and our class, they did lower the # significantly (note the on-time graduation rate here: 90% & >90%). However, comparing to other school the # of the clinical requirements is still relatively high. Correct me if I'm wrong but UCLA only requires about 8-9 crowns. We have to do a minimum of 20.

5. Problem getting a chair. It's true for our class. We had to fight pretty hard for those. We have about 160 chairs available that's divided into disciplines such as data collection, treatment planning, perio, endo and so on. Every morning, at exactly 7:30 we have to sign on to our online account and whoever gets there fast will get the chair. Keep in mind that both junior and senior classes will try to schedule those 160 chairs. There are about 180 students per class. Minus those that have class, or rotations I'm guessing there are about 250 students fighting for 160 chairs. So yes, it does get difficult trying to get a chair. However, before I graduated I've heard that it was getting easier scheduling a chair (any USC senior out there that can confirm this?)

With all this, most of our class and the '09 were able to finish on time. For me, I was done with all the comps exams by the Summer trimester going into my senior year. And I was done with most (99%) of my requirements by my Fall trimester of senior year. Having said that, there were a lot of my classmates that were still struggling till the last day. And there were also a lot of my classmates that were able to finish with everything way before I did. It really depends on how lucky you are in getting a good case/patient. As some people that pointed this out previously in this forum that a lot of faculty at USC are *******s. Yes, it is true, however there are also some great faculty that are really patient and willing to teach. I have to admit, there were days that I wanted to beat the **** out of some USC faculty for being a jerk. There were days that I had to apologize for what I didn't do, there were also days that faculty f*cked up the case and put the blame on your shoulder but I guess that's a part of dental school or any school for that matters. With all that being said, I do feel very confident in my clinical skills as we were rigorously trained. Of course, there are areas that I wish the school would have placed more emphasis but then again life's not perfect right?
 
The class of 2009 had approximately 90% on time graduation. If I'm not wrong for our class 2010, the rate is >90%. Most of us were done with all the clinical requirements by graduation (May 15th). I believe at this point, there are only a couple of us still in clinic finishing up.

And to answer the OP question, the cons of attending USC are

1. The thing that everybody dreads about; the cost. It's going to cost you quite a bit to go to this school as everybody already knows. I owe about 400k right now and to be honest, I'm really really worried about it. However, if you can get the military scholarship that'd help a lot since they pay the whole tuition plus you get a monthly stipend. Either that or you can select the IBR (Income-based repayment) plan after you graduate. With this type of plan, you pay back the loans according to the amount that you make. If you additional info on this, try this http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/IBRPlan.jsp

2. PBL. To be honest, a lot of us (class of 2010) hated PBL. For me personally, I really hated PBL. Don't get me wrong, PBL is good to a certain extent. However, I believe that with the PBL systems you're going to get "gaps" in your knowledge on a certain subject. I don't believe that your peer, someone with a similar amount of knowledge as you, after reading a few pages on a certain subject will become an expert and will be able to teach all that he/she learned to the whole group.

3. Competency exams. The exams are no joke as many of the current USC students in this forum will confirm it. The criteria here at USC is mush harsher than those you will see in boards such as WREB. To break it down, you have to do
-3 perio comps (a sophomore, junior, and senior),
-5 composite comps,
-2 amalgam comps (you will realize that nobody nowadays wants to do amalgam as our class struggled to find patient to fulfill this requirement. However, the administration saw the problem and allowed us to take that on mounted extracted teeth)
-3 cast preparation comps (preparing a tooth for a crown - this is the area that many of us struggled to get the right patient as there are specific criteria for the tooth to qualify)
-3 cementation comps (cementing the crowns)

4. # of clinical requirements. This used to be a huge problem for the class of '07 & '08. This was when we had that 19% on time graduation because they had way too many requirements. However for class of '09 and our class, they did lower the # significantly (note the on-time graduation rate here: 90% & >90%). However, comparing to other school the # of the clinical requirements is still relatively high. Correct me if I'm wrong but UCLA only requires about 8-9 crowns. We have to do a minimum of 20.

5. Problem getting a chair. It's true for our class. We had to fight pretty hard for those. We have about 160 chairs available that's divided into disciplines such as data collection, treatment planning, perio, endo and so on. Every morning, at exactly 7:30 we have to sign on to our online account and whoever gets there fast will get the chair. Keep in mind that both junior and senior classes will try to schedule those 160 chairs. There are about 180 students per class. Minus those that have class, or rotations I'm guessing there are about 250 students fighting for 160 chairs. So yes, it does get difficult trying to get a chair. However, before I graduated I've heard that it was getting easier scheduling a chair (any USC senior out there that can confirm this?)

With all this, most of our class and the '09 were able to finish on time. For me, I was done with all the comps exams by the Summer trimester going into my senior year. And I was done with most (99%) of my requirements by my Fall trimester of senior year. Having said that, there were a lot of my classmates that were still struggling till the last day. And there were also a lot of my classmates that were able to finish with everything way before I did. It really depends on how lucky you are in getting a good case/patient. As some people that pointed this out previously in this forum that a lot of faculty at USC are *******s. Yes, it is true, however there are also some great faculty that are really patient and willing to teach. I have to admit, there were days that I wanted to beat the **** out of some USC faculty for being a jerk. There were days that I had to apologize for what I didn't do, there were also days that faculty f*cked up the case and put the blame on your shoulder but I guess that's a part of dental school or any school for that matters. With all that being said, I do feel very confident in my clinical skills as we were rigorously trained. Of course, there are areas that I wish the school would have placed more emphasis but then again life's not perfect right?

Anyone considering USC should read this post and believe it 100% because it is very objectively written. I just wanted to point that many past USC posters have complained about pre-clinical courses being extremely time consuming and difficult to say the least. Starting this fall, the entire pre-clinical curriculum has been changed and improved. The new freshmen can tell you about this when they encounter it.

With the chair situation, remember when summer rolls around, all the graduating seniors are exiting or have finished all their requirements therefore, there is really just one class of about 180 students for the 160 chairs available. During this time, it's not very hard to get a chair unless you want to work with a specific faculty member or coincidentally 30 people want to take a comp on a specific day. Again towards spring, a lot of seniors will be completing their requirements and thus chair reservations will get easier. The only time when things really get congested is probably towards the end of fall quarter and definitely early spring semester.

One thing i really noticed about USC is that the school's current curriculum emphasizes clinical skills (i.e. working at the sim lab for long hours) and not really forcing students to study the basic sciences. This is the downfall of PBL where it really makes students lazy and not caring because they fall into this trap of believe it's "BS." Once you get yourself in this whole, there's no coming back.
 
i wanna believe you when you say it's 100% objective but how would you know, youre Pre Dental, no?
 
i wanna believe you when you say it's 100% objective but how would you know, youre Pre Dental, no?

Do I sound pre-dental? I don't know how any pre-dent would even know what I'm talking about or make that kind of statement !:thumbup:
 
i wanna believe you when you say it's 100% objective but how would you know, youre Pre Dental, no?

kynt's post echoes what i'm hearing/ have heard about USC. IMO too much attention is paid to the PBL, when it's not even one of the worst things about USC when compared to the clinical requirements/ schedueling and competency craziness, which i hear bothers the students more than PBL. if there are USCers blasting the national boards, then there shouldn't be much talk about PBL.
 
1. The thing that everybody dreads about; the cost. It's going to cost you quite a bit to go to this school as everybody already knows. I owe about 400k right now and to be honest, I'm really really worried about it.

that's outrageous.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
yeah if students dont take a stand before you know it 500k will be the norm across the board. i say boycott usc!:smuggrin:

Ask the new grads from NYU, UPENN, Tufts, etc. how much they owe.. hehehe
 
Schools simply do not care how much tuition costs. To them, it's like stealing lunch money from grade schoolers.

Four years at USC costs $400K. Let's say the last two years of dental school at USC cost $200K for approx 22 months of clinic time, five days a week, two clinic sessions per day. This is $227 per clinic session paid by the student to graduate. I bet the student pays more than the patient for a prophy or restoration or even a crown at USC.

If you ask adminstration at USC I bet they will tell you they are losing money by running the dental school.
 
Schools simply do not care how much tuition costs. To them, it's like stealing lunch money from grade schoolers.

Four years at USC costs $400K. Let's say the last two years of dental school at USC cost $200K for approx 22 months of clinic time, five days a week, two clinic sessions per day. This is $227 per clinic session paid by the student to graduate. I bet the student pays more than the patient for a prophy or restoration or even a crown at USC.

If you ask adminstration at USC I bet they will tell you they are losing money by running the dental school.
Exactly

#1 USC Costs.
#2 Arn't they band from post season.... football :D
Thanks Pete
 
Schools simply do not care how much tuition costs. To them, it's like stealing lunch money from grade schoolers.

Four years at USC costs $400K. Let's say the last two years of dental school at USC cost $200K for approx 22 months of clinic time, five days a week, two clinic sessions per day. This is $227 per clinic session paid by the student to graduate. I bet the student pays more than the patient for a prophy or restoration or even a crown at USC.

If you ask adminstration at USC I bet they will tell you they are losing money by running the dental school.

this is flawed logic; because keep in mind out of that $400K a lot (most?) is going to living expenses which dont go to the school. dont get me wrong, i think tutiion nowadays is outrageous at many different schools, but USC is not getting $400K from each student. i think their tution is ~$60K/yr making it $240K for four years.
 
this is flawed logic; because keep in mind out of that $400K a lot (most?) is going to living expenses which dont go to the school. dont get me wrong, i think tutiion nowadays is outrageous at many different schools, but USC is not getting $400K from each student. i think their tution is ~$60K/yr making it $240K for four years.

This is directly from USC's website for this school year. The total school cost would be
Year 1 $79,640
Year 2 $77,828
Year 3 $73,962
Year 4 $49,755
So that's a total of 281185. Keep in mind that tuition fee increases every year. And of course, when I was a 1st year at USC, the tuition was much lower, I think it was approximately 60-65k and now it's 79k for 1st year. My point is, we still have to pay USC a lot. And yes, they keep on telling us that they're losing money every year. The 1st 2 years we only have preclinical courses and PBL cases. With the preclinical courses, most of the faculty there are volunteer faculty meaning they don't get paid. With PBL cases, the facilitators get paid very little. The last 2 years on the clinic floor, a large number of the faculty is also either volunteer or part-time. From what I know, they also get paid very little. So now we have approximately 640 students of the D.D.S. program without including the dental hygiene & the advanced specialty programs. Each one of us has to pay about 22k of tuition per trimester. Multiply that by 640 and you get about 14 million per trimester. On top of that, the patients also pay for whatever procedures that they need. And they keep on telling us every freaking year that they're losing money. I wonder where does the money go?
 
This is directly from USC's website for this school year. The total school cost would be
Year 1 $79,640
Year 2 $77,828
Year 3 $73,962
Year 4 $49,755
So that's a total of 281185. Keep in mind that tuition fee increases every year. And of course, when I was a 1st year at USC, the tuition was much lower, I think it was approximately 60-65k and now it's 79k for 1st year. My point is, we still have to pay USC a lot. And yes, they keep on telling us that they're losing money every year. The 1st 2 years we only have preclinical courses and PBL cases. With the preclinical courses, most of the faculty there are volunteer faculty meaning they don't get paid. With PBL cases, the facilitators get paid very little. The last 2 years on the clinic floor, a large number of the faculty is also either volunteer or part-time. From what I know, they also get paid very little. So now we have approximately 640 students of the D.D.S. program without including the dental hygiene & the advanced specialty programs. Each one of us has to pay about 22k of tuition per trimester. Multiply that by 640 and you get about 14 million per trimester. On top of that, the patients also pay for whatever procedures that they need. And they keep on telling us every freaking year that they're losing money. I wonder where does the money go?
And if you don’t graduate on time, you will have to pay the additional tuition for the additional semester you have to stay to complete the requirements. Wow, that is a huge increase in class size. When my wife went to USC 12-13 years ago, there were only 120 students in each class. No wonder why USC students continue to have hard times finding chairs and patients to fulfill the requirements.
 
And if you don’t graduate on time, you will have to pay the additional tuition for the additional semester you have to stay to complete the requirements. Wow, that is a huge increase in class size. When my wife went to USC 12-13 years ago, there were only 120 students in each class. No wonder why USC students continue to have hard times finding chairs and patients to fulfill the requirements.
That's what happens when you run a degree mill but the class size is 144 (see http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=910&linkidentifier=id&itemid=910&menu_id=258).
 
this is flawed logic; because keep in mind out of that $400K a lot (most?) is going to living expenses which dont go to the school. dont get me wrong, i think tutiion nowadays is outrageous at many different schools, but USC is not getting $400K from each student. i think their tution is ~$60K/yr making it $240K for four years.

This is directly from USC's website for this school year. The total school cost would be
Year 1 $79,640
Year 2 $77,828
Year 3 $73,962
Year 4 $49,755
So that's a total of 281185. Keep in mind that tuition fee increases every year. And of course, when I was a 1st year at USC, the tuition was much lower, I think it was approximately 60-65k and now it's 79k for 1st year. My point is, we still have to pay USC a lot. And yes, they keep on telling us that they're losing money every year. The 1st 2 years we only have preclinical courses and PBL cases. With the preclinical courses, most of the faculty there are volunteer faculty meaning they don't get paid. With PBL cases, the facilitators get paid very little. The last 2 years on the clinic floor, a large number of the faculty is also either volunteer or part-time. From what I know, they also get paid very little. So now we have approximately 640 students of the D.D.S. program without including the dental hygiene & the advanced specialty programs. Each one of us has to pay about 22k of tuition per trimester. Multiply that by 640 and you get about 14 million per trimester. On top of that, the patients also pay for whatever procedures that they need. And they keep on telling us every freaking year that they're losing money. I wonder where does the money go?

Tuition and fees alone for c/o 2014 is ~340k :scared:

(HOPE I get that NHSC scholarship:xf:)



#1 reason to go to UCLA instead or USC :D

UCLA Football is GARBAGE....

Only because they cant make it to the bowl(temporarily) and have less scholarships(temporarily) doesnt mean they're gonna suck as bad as UCLA lol
 
Well since the dental school is a part of the main campus at USC, most of the tuition money that students pay goes directly the USC, not the dental school. I don't know the breakdown but the dental school probably receives less than half what what we pay in tuition costs.

I don't believe the clinic is losing money per year. The entire dental school is losing money after factoring in all the salaries, expenses, programs, benefits. etc. Even so, don't expect tuition to go down anytime soon..
 
Top