Considering USUHS - Lots of Questions

[JPSmyth]

I have been reading this forum for a long time and searched a lot, and I've compiled my questions into one post...

I am interviewing at USUHS this cycle and I have a few questions/concerns/thoughts that I was hoping to get clarified about military medicine. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I think that I would like to go into PM&R. I'm aware my mind may change, but would this be possible in the military? What about specialties like interventional radiology? I'm afraid I would bust my a** in med school and then when the time comes for residency match there won't be any military spots in the specialty that I want. In that case can I complete a civilian residency? Or will I be forced into whatever the military needs?

I was told to aim for Air Force as it has the highest quality of life usually, I don't know how this applies to medicine. Can I get into the Air Force with no military experience?


It seems like Navy has pretty good locations, along coasts in nice areas. Whereas army's locations are not as desirable? Is this true?

The chances of doing a gmo tour are higher in navy than army? What about Air Force?

Most pay information that I could find was old, for 2016 about how much would somebody make: as a med student, as a resident, as a fellow, as an attending right after fellowship (I understand it depends on a few factors but I've seen ballpark, 50k, 80k, 180k)

How often, how long, and what are deployments generally like for physicians? How is quality of life? What is the chance of getting killed/injured?

How are work hours as a resident/attending compared to civilian jobs? As a civilian attending I believe it is possible to take a pay cut to work less hours. I would imagine that is impossible in the military.

Keep in mind, if I got in anywhere else I would go to a "normal" MD program. I value freedom of where to live, where to work, etc. But if it comes down to military MD or reapplying, I think there is a good chance I sign my life away to the military

Thanks guys!

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[WernickeDO]

Keep in mind, if I got in anywhere else I would go to a "normal" MD program. I value freedom of where to live, where to work, etc. But if it comes down to military MD or reapplying, I think there is a good chance I sign my life away to the military

Thanks guys!

This last paragraph of yours contains all the answers you need. If you value these things, then don't go into the military. You sign away control of your career when you join.

Spend some time on this site reading stickies and using the search function. The answers are all out there. You had better unearth this stuff and have some idea as to what you are potentially getting into before you go for your interview.

 

[JPSmyth]

This last paragraph of yours contains all the answers you need. If you value these things, then don't go into the military. You sign away control of your career when you join.

Spend some time on this site reading stickies and using the search function. The answers are all out there. You had better unearth this stuff and have some idea as to what you are potentially getting into before you go for your interview.

I have been on these forums for a few years now and I have been reading about military med for over 6 months. I see all the negatives on this site. But that is what is causing me to ask these specific questions above! I understand there are pros and cons, but these above questions are things that I have not been able to easily find direct answers to in all my time on here

 

[WernickeDO]

I have been on these forums for a few years now and I have been reading about military med for over 6 months. I see all the negatives on this site. But that is what is causing me to ask these specific questions above! I understand there are pros and cons, but these above questions are things that I have not been able to easily find direct answers to in all my time on here

If you don't want to be in the military, why are you applying to a military medical school? How do you intend to answer this question on your interview? How do you intend to reconcile active duty life with that of a civilian? How will you reconcile military medicine with civilian? These are the questions you need to ask, not which branch has the best locations. And for the record, all of your questions have been answered as nauseam on this forum.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

This last paragraph of yours contains all the answers you need. If you value these things, then don't go into the military. You sign away control of your career when you join.

Dr. Wernicke, I think this student's concern might be an interesting one. I already gave him my 2 cents on a different thread.

What would one do if confronted with the choice of 15 years military service for a medical degree or no medical degree at all?

Most pay information that I could find was old, for 2016 about how much would somebody make: as a med student, as a resident, as a fellow, as an attending right after fellowship (I understand it depends on a few factors but I've seen ballpark, 50k, 80k, 180k)

At USUHS, take home after tax pay is ~4500/month. For the residency and attending salaries you are about right.

 

[Cooperd0g]

It is not unreasonable to consider USUHS as an option despite being apprehensive about joining the military. He clearly stated that it would be his last choice MD school. As bad as some people have it with military medicine it would be hard to pass it up if that was the only acceptance.

To answer your questions:
Check out the sticky from j4pac about civilian residency after GMO. He was not able to get PM&R in the Navy as the spots are very few and very far between. Granted most people change their mind, but it would be a bad idea to choose Navy if PM&R is high on your list. Typically people don't GMO and out from USUHS because of the 7 year commitment. Interventional radiology is available, but like with many specialties the availability of those fellowships (or residencies once it fully swings that way) is going to vary over the years. Nearly everything is technically available, the question is how many spots and when those spots may be open. It may not match up with your timing. I know plenty of people who would be sure thing EM and Peds matches in the civilian match, but didn't get a spot in the Navy due to the weird extra competitiveness that is based on the small numbers and higher than normal interest.

I kind of think of the services like the cell phone carriers - they all suck, you just have to find the one that sucks the least for you. That may be AF, but Army will have the most PM&R spots so it may be Army for you. They all have good locations and bad locations. Don't base the good/bad on the major medical centers because most of the docs are at smaller bases anyway.

Odds of GMO seem to be Navy >>> AF > Army. AF and Army are going to be more if you want to GMO or you fail to match so you get TY and then forced GMO and then you reapply. I'm simplifying things for any nit pickers out there.

Here is the pay chart: http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/military-pay-charts.html
Choose the current year to see the pdf. You would be an O-1 under 2 years. Add BAS (on the chart) and BAH for O-1 in Bethesda, MD (http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/bahCalc.cfm); you either do or do not have dependents. The numbers change every year, but the formula doesn't. Therefore I'll let you total up the numbers because if you can't do that you aren't smart enough for medical school.

"How often, how long, and what are deployments generally like for physicians? How is quality of life? What is the chance of getting killed/injured?

How are work hours as a resident/attending compared to civilian jobs? As a civilian attending I believe it is possible to take a pay cut to work less hours. I would imagine that is impossible in the military."

If you really have been on this board and reading, then there is no way you still have questions about these things because they have been addressed at length. Besides the answer is "it totally varies based on what level of training you are in, what your specialty is, why type of jobs you seek out or get stuck with, whether or not we are at war, how good/crappy your command climate is ..."

 

[alpinism]

Dr. Wernicke, I think this student's concern might be an interesting one. I already gave him my 2 cents on a different thread.

What would one do if confronted with the choice of 15 years military service for a medical degree or no medical degree at all?



At USUHS, take home after tax pay is ~4500/month. For the residency and attending salaries you are about right.

Anyone who can get into USUHS could also get into multiple well regarded DO schools.

Worst case scenario he'd have to wait another year before starting medical school.

 

[JPSmyth]

Thank you guys for your input. I will withdraw my application and take the risk of not getting an acceptance this year. One year wait is nothing compared to 15 year commitment

 

[JPSmyth]

Sorry for the lengthy post, a lot of internal conflict going on in my head about this. But I just don't think it is for me

 

[WernickeDO]

Choosing between being a mil doc or not a doc at all...that is a tough one. I agree with alpinism that if OP is competitive for USUHS then they would also be competitive for DO schools too. But, you never know. I think that if I was faced with that decision I would choose USUHS and just live with the decision to be a mil doc. It's a great school so it's not like this is a horrible scenario. Milmed works out for a lot of people. But OP had better come to terms with what attending USUHS means: a 12 year payback is the minimum. That's 12 years and a profound effect on your medical training and career. Plus, OP had better have a good answer when the interviewer asks why they want to be a military physician.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Glad you are finding your way OP

 

[Mace1370]

I was in your shoes several years ago. If you still need advice I would be happy to talk, just send me a PM.

 

[Incis0r]

a 12 year payback is the minimum.

Jeez. That is a really long commitment. It makes the HPSP commitment seem like nothing.

Does the 12 yr payback include you getting to specialize in the field of your choice?

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Jeez. That is a really long commitment. It makes the HPSP commitment seem like nothing.

Does the 12 yr payback include you getting to specialize in the field of your choice?

The 12 year payback is in reference to USUHS, which is a MD program. I think for the dentist corp it is all through HPSP or direct accession.

One of my buddies from officer training was allowed to be trained into the...oral maxillofacial surgery (??) residency following graduation from her dental school but she was top of her class and all that. Very few spots for those I believe.

Most of us here unfortunately do not interface with the dental corp all that much. Sorry about that.

 

[Incis0r]

Most of us here unfortunately do not interface with the dental corp all that much. Sorry about that.

No worries- but I wasn't asking about the dental corps in that post. True, I'm pursuing dental, but I'm just interested in learning more about what my pre-med counterparts are doing!

I guess a better way to phrase my question would be: if you go to USUHS for med school & incur a 12-year payback, do you at least get guaranteed a specialty of your choice for those 12 yrs?

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

No worries- but I wasn't asking about the dental corps in that post. True, I'm pursuing dental, but I'm just interested in learning more about what my pre-med counterparts are doing!

I guess a better way to phrase my question would be: if you go to USUHS for med school & incur a 12-year payback, do you at least get guaranteed a specialty of your choice for those 12 yrs?

Ah, got it. Well technically one incurs a 7 year pay back at USUHS but it ends up 11-12 years post medical school because residency doesn't pay that back.

Guaranteed?...well...yes in a sense. MDs and DOs are functionally useless without specialty training post medical school so the military will train you in a residency. Specialty of your choice?...so long as one does well enough in medical school and doesn't shoot for the moon...yea...sure...but there is always some uncertainty in that because of the year to year fluctuating competitiveness of each specialty.

 

[WernickeDO]

No worries- but I wasn't asking about the dental corps in that post. True, I'm pursuing dental, but I'm just interested in learning more about what my pre-med counterparts are doing!

I guess a better way to phrase my question would be: if you go to USUHS for med school & incur a 12-year payback, do you at least get guaranteed a specialty of your choice for those 12 yrs?

No, there are no guarantees. I know USUHS grads who are several years deep into trying to get into a residency with no luck. And they're not going for urology or radiology either. The only promise you get from the military is that you will complete an internship.

 

[j4pac]

Navy and PM&R are not compatible. Only Army and PM&R is compatible. But only go that route of you love the polytrauma/wounded warrior side of it. And only go into the military if you would regret not serving.

If you want to get into PM&R you would be wise to go civilian. If you read the PM&R thread, look at the stickies. I created a guide to getting to PM&R. It will be helpful.