MD Could you rank the 10 most selective schools in this list? Trying to eliminate a few.

[LuluLovesMe]

MA Resident, ORM
cGPA 3.56 sGPA 3.41
MCAT Waiting on scores from 12/6 (AAMC Average 37)

Trying to finalize my list of schools to apply to. I'm aware that many of the schools on this list are beyond my reach. I'm just not sure which to strike out for sure and which are still worth a shot at.

Albert Einstein
U Rochester
U Pittsburg
Medical College of Wisconsin
Case Western
St. Louis
Creighton
Duke
Penn State
George Washington
Temple
UMass
BU
Emory
Thomas Jefferson
U Miami
Tufts
Dartmouth
Georgetown
Hofstra
Brown
Keck
UVM
Rosalind Franklin
Wake Forest
Drexel
NY Medical
Virginia Tech
Albany Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth

Could you maybe rank the 10 most selective schools in this list? Looking to cross out 8-9 of the most selective schools leaving maybe 1-2 selective schools I have a small shot at.

Also let me know if some schools here are really bad for out of state or have some sort of religious or racial preference. I screened for this before but I might have missed something.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Duke, Pitt, Emory, Case Western, Dartmouth, Brown, Keck, BU

These are probably the most selective schools on your list. Duke and Pitt are going to be the most selective followed very closely by Emory and Case. Dartmouth and Brown strongly prefer nontrads and Brown in particular only interviews like 3% of their applicant pool. Keck and BU are also quite competitive, but not to the same extent as the first four. You also have some schools like GW, Georgetown, Temple, Jefferson, etc where everyone and their mother applies, so even though you might be a fit for their statistical profile, you have a low shot at getting an interview just due to the high volume of applications.

That being said, you should figure out what you are looking for in a medical school and then apply to schools that can help you achieve that. If you haven't already subscribed, I would pick up the MSAR from AAMC's website for $26 so you can parse these out for yourself.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Why Duke and not UNC?

Why MCW and not University of Wisconsin?

Why Emory but not Vanderbilt?

Why RFU but not any other Chicago schools?

Why Case but not any other OH schools?

This list looks like you pulled names out of a hat...

I filtered MSAR for out of state and private. The only public institutions I'm applying to are UMASS and UVM since I am a MA resident. As far as I know most other public med schools have a strong in state preference.

I took these stats into account. Don't want to apply to a school with a favorability under 0.5

https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/act/gradstudy/health/guide/part2/appendix

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Duke, Pitt, Emory, Case Western, Dartmouth, Brown, Keck, BU

These are probably the most selective schools on your list. Duke and Pitt are going to be the most selective followed very closely by Emory and Case. Dartmouth and Brown strongly prefer nontrads and Brown in particular only interviews like 3% of their applicant pool. Keck and BU are also quite competitive, but not to the same extent as the first four. You also have some schools like GW, Georgetown, Temple, Jefferson, etc where everyone and their mother applies, so even though you might be a fit for their statistical profile, you have a low shot at getting an interview just due to the high volume of applications.

That being said, you should figure out what you are looking for in a medical school and then apply to schools that can help you achieve that. If you haven't already subscribed, I would pick up the MSAR from AAMC's website for $26 so you can parse these out for yourself.

Thanks for your detailed reply!

I do have the MSAR but the information it gives is so limited. For example the MCAT as well as GPA ranges for BU and Duke are the same, but BU is less selective. SDN would be much more knowledgeable about this.

I honestly just want get in somewhere so I plan to apply to 20 schools I have a good chance at and then 1-2 that I have a slim chance at.

Since as you said everyone applies to GW, Georgetown, Temple, Jefferson ect, is it still worth a shot to apply to them?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Thanks for your detailed reply!

I do have the MSAR but the information it gives is so limited. For example the MCAT as well as GPA ranges for BU and Duke are the same, but BU is less selective. SDN would be much more knowledgeable about this.

I honestly just want get in somewhere so I plan to apply to 20 schools I have a good chance at and then 1-2 that I have a slim chance at.

Since as you said everyone applies to GW, Georgetown, Temple, Jefferson ect, is it still worth a shot to apply to them?

If you go into the tab titled "selection factors" you get a more detailed median GPA. You'll see then that they are quite different. Duke's is 3.86ish while BU's is like 3.79 or so (my MSAR subscription expired so I'm not 100% sure about these numbers). The 10th-90th percentile ranges won't tell you too much about relative competitiveness. I would look more at median GPA and MCAT to figure that out.

If you're up for the secondaries, it might be worth a shot, but there are definitely other schools that you might statistically have a better shot at.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

If you go into the tab titled "selection factors" you get a more detailed median GPA. You'll see then that they are quite different. Duke's is 3.86ish while BU's is like 3.79 or so (my MSAR subscription expired so I'm not 100% sure about these numbers). The 10th-90th percentile ranges won't tell you too much about relative competitiveness. I would look more at median GPA and MCAT to figure that out.

If you're up for the secondaries, it might be worth a shot, but there are definitely other schools that you might statistically have a better shot at.

What might those other schools be? I feel most public schools aren't a good shot even if 30% of their student body is out of state since that often equates to a 2-10x less acceptance rate than instate applicants depending on # of applications. For private schools, I've pretty much listed all schools that don't have a specific mission or are just impossible to get in for me.

I plan to apply to around 22 schools.

 

[GavinThePremed]

If I were applying with your stats, I'd only consider the following schools:


Medical College of Wisconsin
St. Louis
Creighton
Penn State
George Washington
Temple
BU
Thomas Jefferson
U Miami
Tufts
Hofstra
Keck
UVM
Rosalind Franklin
Drexel
NY Medical
Albany Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth

I saw a lot of schools where your sGPA was lower than the 10th percentile sGPA of accepted students in the last cycle. Be realistic. Don't waste your money for a bunch of rejections.


EDIT: I just saw you're expecting a 37 on your MCAT. If you get anywhere near 34+, use LizzyM as a diagnostic in addition to looking up MSAR sGPA and cGPA numbers for the class last year. There are medical schools that do forgive a low sGPA because of a really good MCAT.

BUT if you score somewhere between 30-33, I'd go with the list above.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

If I were applying with your stats, I'd only consider the following schools:


Medical College of Wisconsin
St. Louis
Creighton
Penn State
George Washington
Temple
BU
Thomas Jefferson
U Miami
Tufts
Hofstra
Keck
UVM
Rosalind Franklin
Drexel
NY Medical
Albany Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth

I saw a lot of schools where your sGPA was lower than the 10th percentile sGPA of accepted students in the last cycle. Be realistic. Don't waste your money for a bunch of rejections.


EDIT: I just saw you're expecting a 37 on your MCAT. If you get anywhere near 34+, use LizzyM as a diagnostic in addition to looking up MSAR sGPA and cGPA numbers for the class last year. There are medical schools that do forgive a low sGPA because of a really good MCAT.

BUT if you score somewhere between 30-33, I'd go with the list above.

Thanks for your input. I've trimmed down my list to 21 schools now. Basically I looked for low GPA and high out of state acceptance rate, specifically for MA. Any schools I missed that like to take a lot of MA residents? Or any schools that don't take many MA residents on my list?

Penn State
George Washington
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
BU
UMass
U Miami
Georgetown
Tufts
Hofstra
Keck
UVM
Rosalind Franklin
Wake Forest
NY Medical
Drexel
Virginia Tech
Albany
Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth


If I get a high MCAT what are 1-2 schools I could I shoot for?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Thanks for your input. I've trimmed down my list to 21 schools now. Basically I looked for low GPA and high out of state acceptance rate, specifically for MA. Any schools I missed that like to take a lot of MA residents? Or any schools that don't take many MA residents on my list?

Penn State
George Washington
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
BU
UMass
U Miami
Georgetown
Tufts
Hofstra
Keck
UVM
Rosalind Franklin
Wake Forest
NY Medical
Drexel
Virginia Tech
Albany
Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth


If I get a high MCAT what are 1-2 schools I could I shoot for?

VCU and EVMS in Virginia are also fairly OOS friendly. Keck and BU already have average MCAT scores of 35, but if you want more, you could perhaps consider adding Dartmouth.

 

[GavinThePremed]

Thanks for your input. I've trimmed down my list to 21 schools now. Basically I looked for low GPA and high out of state acceptance rate, specifically for MA. Any schools I missed that like to take a lot of MA residents? Or any schools that don't take many MA residents on my list?

Penn State
George Washington
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
BU
UMass
U Miami
Georgetown
Tufts
Hofstra
Keck
UVM
Rosalind Franklin
Wake Forest
NY Medical
Drexel
Virginia Tech
Albany
Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth


If I get a high MCAT what are 1-2 schools I could I shoot for?

Oh sorry for cutting out UMass than, definitely include that as you're in-state. And I second @WedgeDawg on EVMS & VCU. But they're both basically the same. If you have the money, apply for both, if not, go for EVMS (More OOS friendly than VCU and accepts students with stats around yours).

Additionally, if you get a higher MCAT, I'd include Case as well. Case and Wake Forest in particular tend to accept students who have high MCAT scores but lower sGPA's. And, they'd be at the high end of your list, but both really solid, great schools that I think you'd have a good shot at.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Oh sorry for cutting out UMass than, definitely include that as you're in-state. And I second @WedgeDawg on EVMS & VCU. But they're both basically the same. If you have the money, apply for both, if not, go for EVMS (More OOS friendly than VCU and accepts students with stats around yours).

Additionally, if you get a higher MCAT, I'd include Case as well. Case and Wake Forest in particular tend to accept students who have high MCAT scores but lower sGPA's. And, they'd be at the high end of your list, but both really solid, great schools that I think you'd have a good shot at.

I would note that VCU's secondary is a lot more manageable than EVMS's, so it wouldn't take too much extra effort to apply (assuming money isn't an issue).

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I would note that VCU's secondary is a lot more manageable than EVMS's, so it wouldn't take too much extra effort to apply (assuming money isn't an issue).

Any other public schools worth applying to? Even EVMS doesn't seem that encouraging for out of state since only 70 of their 200 slots are out of state and probably 5x more applicants are out of state than in state.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Also how time consuming are secondaries? I'm working around 50 hours a week as a CRC. Could I handle however many secondaries result from 25 primary apps?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Also how time consuming are secondaries? I'm working around 50 hours a week as a CRC. Could I handle however many secondaries result from 25 primary apps?

I finished 21 (22?) secondaries in exactly three weeks while working ~40 hours/week. You will find that some secondaries have very similar prompts, so once you've done about half of them, many of the remaining questions can be answered by adapting (not copying) a previous essay. This isn't a strict rule across the board, but it helps speed it up towards the end.

Any other public schools worth applying to? Even EVMS doesn't seem that encouraging for out of state since only 70 of their 200 slots are out of state and probably 5x more applicants are out of state than in state.

70/200 OOS is pretty good for a state school, IMO. Check the accepted applicants section in the MSAR for EVMS and it'll tell you how many out of state applied, were interviewed, and matriculated. That should give you a better idea. As for which other public schools to apply to, I'm not too sure other than those, as I only applied to about 5 and don't have detailed knowledge of the others. You could try looking into SUNY Downstate or Stony Brook perhaps.

 

[GavinThePremed]

Any other public schools worth applying to? Even EVMS doesn't seem that encouraging for out of state since only 70 of their 200 slots are out of state and probably 5x more applicants are out of state than in state.

Dude, 70/200 is insanely good, they accept about 50% of their class OOS...that's huge considering that most schools that are public only go for like 10-30%.

BUT, another thing to note about EVMS that I just remembered is that they have an SMP, and they accept about 30-40 students from that SMP. That might skew the accepted out-of-state data significantly enough.

 

[amad01]

Why Duke and not UNC?

Why MCW and not University of Wisconsin?

Why Emory but not Vanderbilt?

Why RFU but not any other Chicago schools?

Why Case but not any other OH schools?

This list looks like you pulled names out of a hat...

My MSAR is expired so I couldn't check any of this.. but I believe:

UNC is public... I'm pretty sure duke is private
U Wisc is public... MCW is private
Vanderbilt hardly even gives out secondaries, especially to sub 3.5 gpa's. I don't know why you relate Emory and Vandy anyways...
they should probably consider more Chicago schools maybe rush, loyola, GPA is low for northwestern
I"m pretty sure Case is private, didn't check.... Most other OH schools are public... oh st, cinc, toledo... maybe cleveland clinic they could apply to

Do you know the difference between public and private and chances of admission? Being OOS it's hard to get looks at the public schools, especially when below their ave stats. This doesn't look at all like OP pulled names out of a hat. You shouldn't criticize so quickly, this is a pretty solid list. I am OOS and interviewed at many of these schools, where I didn't get anything from the OOS publics. I do think the list it is a little top heavy with the GPA, but it will depend on how the MCAT turns out.

 

[Narmerguy]

Moving to WAMC.

 

[ace12345]

Thanks for your input. I've trimmed down my list to 21 schools now. Basically I looked for low GPA and high out of state acceptance rate, specifically for MA. Any schools I missed that like to take a lot of MA residents? Or any schools that don't take many MA residents on my list?

Penn State
George Washington
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
BU
UMass
U Miami
Georgetown
Tufts
Hofstra
Keck
UVM
Rosalind Franklin
Wake Forest
NY Medical
Drexel
Virginia Tech
Albany
Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth


If I get a high MCAT what are 1-2 schools I could I shoot for?

Rush and Loyola might be good options as well, but wait for the MCAT and see what happens. There is nothing wrong with taking a couple shots at reach schools you're interested in!

 

[ConsultantMD]

Rush and Loyola might be good options as well, but wait for the MCAT and see what happens. There is nothing wrong with taking a couple shots at reach schools you're interested in!

Agreed. I think if you score well on the MCAT, you shouldn't be afraid at throwing a couple hail mary's to see what happens. I threw several and landed a couple interviews at the places people are telling you to take off!

 

[Goro]

You should consider the following:

U Rochester
Medical College of Wisconsin
St. Louis
Creighton
George Washington
Temple
UMass
BU
Thomas Jefferson
U Miami
Tufts
Georgetown
Hofstra
Rosalind Franklin
Wake Forest
Drexel
NY Medical
Virginia Tech
Albany Quinnipiac
Tulane
Commonwealth

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Thanks Goro, I have 3 questions for you!

Out of Case Western, Creighton, St Louis, U Pittsburg which one is the most forgiving of a low GPA in light of other factors?

Assuming I do get a 37 on the MCAT, would it still be advisable to apply to some osteopathic schools?

Does the quality of DO schools vary enough to warrant going to one further away rather than one close to home? I'd love to go to TOURO-NY if I could, but I'm not sure if it would be a good choice to apply to TOURO-NY over PCOM.

 

[ConsultantMD]

Thanks Goro, I have 3 questions for you!

Out of Case Western, Creighton, St Louis, U Pittsburg which one is the most forgiving of a low GPA in light of other factors?

Assuming I do get a 37 on the MCAT, would it still be advisable to apply to some osteopathic schools?

Does the quality of DO schools vary enough to warrant going to one further away rather than one close to home? I'd love to go to TOURO-NY if I could, but I'm not sure if it would be a good choice to apply to TOURO-NY over PCOM.

Again per my experience this year I got rejected asap from Pittsburgh, silence from SLU, and an interview at Case.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Again per my experience this year I got rejected asap from Pittsburgh, silence from SLU, and an interview at Case.

I was leaning towards Case as my most selective school to apply to. It's decided then!

 

[Omppu27]

Why Duke and not UNC?

Why MCW and not University of Wisconsin?

Why Emory but not Vanderbilt?

Why RFU but not any other Chicago schools?

Why Case but not any other OH schools?

This list looks like you pulled names out of a hat...

No, it doesn't. UNC isn't nearly as OOS friendly as Duke, neither is Wisconsin compared to MCW. RFU is less competitive than rush, Loyola, northwestern, and UChicago. If OP is applying to case then maybe they'd want to consider cinci and osu, but I see no reason applying to toledo, NEOMED, or wright state because of high OOS tuition and very low OOS acceptance rates.