Current internship situation - U Syd vs UQ

[LimitlessAllTheWay]

I am currently debating between U Syd and UQ. I've heard the teaching quality in U Syd is better (I can't confirm that), but I am worried about not getting an internship in NSW, in the highly likely case that I don't match to North America. I know there have been concerns that internships are becoming difficult to get in NSW. I have read previous threads and I am hoping to get a fresh take on the matter. So here are my questions, and I know that no one can speak about both universities since they only attended/are attending one of them, but please throw in your two-cents:

1. What are prospects for the 2023 match in NSW and Queensland? Is there a significant amount of graduates who don't match after graduating from U Syd or UQ?

2. What are the most probable future prospect for matches? has the government/state government increased (or is planning to increase) the number of internship spots in NSW? Queensland?

3. How is the teaching quality at U Syd? UQ?

4. How are the international rotation programs at both universities in reality? Is it easy to get a rotation in North America?

5. Would attending one university over the other increase my chances of matching to North America?

6. Roughly what are the living costs in Sydney vs Brisbane?

7. What does one have to do to land a residency in North America?

8. If one gets an internship, what is the process of getting further training after finishing the internship?

9. Are there any post-graduation visa issues I should be aware of?

I would be very appreciative of any information on any of these questions.

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[Wolvvs]

I see that your previous posts were in the Meharry application thread--is there any chance you're a US citizen? If so, I would strongly recommend just applying to UQ-Ochsner rather than going for UQ or USyd as an international since it sounds like you want to return to North America. If not, I and hopefully others can try to help you out with these questions

 

[LimitlessAllTheWay]

I see that your previous posts were in the Meharry application thread--is there any chance you're a US citizen? If so, I would strongly recommend just applying to UQ-Ochsner rather than going for UQ or USyd as an international since it sounds like you want to return to North America. If not, I and hopefully others can try to help you out with these questions

Yeah, I'm not a US citizen so I don't qualify unfortunately. Do you know if Ochsner students study the same curriculum as the other students, or do they have their own lectures and program in the first two years?

 

[Wolvvs]

Yes, as things currently stand the Ochsners are functionally identical to all other students for the first two years. The only difference is in the 4th semester, where students must take an elective. Domestic and international students have several options available, but Ochsners are required to take a Step 1 prep course elective (which is open to domestics and internationals as well). UQ is introducing a new preclinical curriculum starting 2023 though with a goal of boosting early clinical experience, but I don't have too many details and certainly can't compare to USyd.

To your question about internship placements for international students, UQ for the last few years has published international graduate employment outcomes here: International graduate employment outcomes - Medical School - University of Queensland

Taking 2022 for example, 82% of international students ended up with an internship in Australia. The remainder were mostly Singaporean students returning home and a couple of Canadians heading to the US/Canada (COVID made international rotations difficult until recently, usually more Canadians are able to return home). Overall, 98% of Canadian students were able to take the next step in their career. Of course we cannot anticipate the future, but to date there have not been any significant issues with schools placing international students into internships.

For international rotations, UQ does have the connection to the Ochsner Clinical School. You can read a bit more about it here. You are also able to self-organize placements but that can get tricky/expensive. USyd may have connections as well, but because they don't take a substantial number of students from the US, I doubt those connections are as strong. Although again I'm at UQ so I'm biased and don't have very many details about USyd.

Regarding matching to North America, in particular the US, neither name will get you farther. It will really depend on your US clinical experience and letters of recommendation. Which again may be easier to get at UQ because of the Ochsner connection but definitely worth checking with someone at USyd as well.

I can't speak much to a lot of the other stuff like cost of living differences and beyond internship. I prefer Sydney to Brisbane as a city, but I would imagine that depends very much on the individual.

 

[LimitlessAllTheWay]

Yes, as things currently stand the Ochsners are functionally identical to all other students for the first two years. The only difference is in the 4th semester, where students must take an elective. Domestic and international students have several options available, but Ochsners are required to take a Step 1 prep course elective (which is open to domestics and internationals as well). UQ is introducing a new preclinical curriculum starting 2023 though with a goal of boosting early clinical experience, but I don't have too many details and certainly can't compare to USyd.

To your question about internship placements for international students, UQ for the last few years has published international graduate employment outcomes here: International graduate employment outcomes - Medical School - University of Queensland

Taking 2022 for example, 82% of international students ended up with an internship in Australia. The remainder were mostly Singaporean students returning home and a couple of Canadians heading to the US/Canada (COVID made international rotations difficult until recently, usually more Canadians are able to return home). Overall, 98% of Canadian students were able to take the next step in their career. Of course we cannot anticipate the future, but to date there have not been any significant issues with schools placing international students into internships.

For international rotations, UQ does have the connection to the Ochsner Clinical School. You can read a bit more about it here. You are also able to self-organize placements but that can get tricky/expensive. USyd may have connections as well, but because they don't take a substantial number of students from the US, I doubt those connections are as strong. Although again I'm at UQ so I'm biased and don't have very many details about USyd.

Regarding matching to North America, in particular the US, neither name will get you farther. It will really depend on your US clinical experience and letters of recommendation. Which again may be easier to get at UQ because of the Ochsner connection but definitely worth checking with someone at USyd as well.

I can't speak much to a lot of the other stuff like cost of living differences and beyond internship. I prefer Sydney to Brisbane as a city, but I would imagine that depends very much on the individual.

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply and your help! Just a couple of follow ups: Why would it be tricky to arrange self-organized rotations? Also, is it true that UQ will eliminate the lecture component for the M1 as part of the new curriculum?

 

[Wolvvs]

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply and your help! Just a couple of follow ups: Why would it be tricky to arrange self-organized rotations? Also, is it true that UQ will eliminate the lecture component for the M1 as part of the new curriculum?

Really sorry for the late reply!

Finding rotations in the US as an international student can be hard. Most US students use a system called VSLO to get away rotations, I dont know much about it but I do know it's open to US students only and many hospitals will not offer any rotations outside of VSLO. Those that do offer rotations often charge quite a lot. See here for example: Visiting Medical Students | Emory School of Medicine not to pick on Emory in particular, they were just the first google result but they're pretty representative of what you can expect. Visiting US med students pay a $100 application fee and $260 registration. International students pay a $500 application fee and registration fee of $3600.

I'm not too sure what they're doing with the new curriculum. I know they will still have structured teaching activities but I do not know if/how lectures fit into that.

 

[bluefish18]

internship spots seem to be in good supply this year as myself and a handful others from my school got both in-state and inter-state offers
some of my classmates got offers from queensland (both rural and metropolitan spots) this year as interstate international students, so I suppose your chances as an instate student in QLD would be quite high
not sure about NSW
that's not counting the private hospitals internship spots which noone in my school applied
by the time you graduate, however, things might change

 

[Futmob]

internship spots seem to be in good supply this year as myself and a handful others from my school got both in-state and inter-state offers
some of my classmates got offers from queensland (both rural and metropolitan spots) this year as interstate international students, so I suppose your chances as an instate student in QLD would be quite high
not sure about NSW
that's not counting the private hospitals internship spots which noone in my school applied
by the time you graduate, however, things might change

Since internship position in some states are like a ballot system, so who dont get internship is just by chance, in NSW it seems varies from 7% to 10%, so would it be an viable option in case if i dont get one, i just wait for another year while doing a master degree, and apply again? that way the chance I dont match become very small just looking at probability

 

[bluefish18]

Chances are if you apply this year you will get matched somewhere, provided that you are willing to apply to every state and accept rural offers. My current hospital (a medium size one in a regional city) were a few interns short and had to recruit IMGs. Anyone who applied here got an offer, and the same was true of the hospital where I trained.

 

[Futmob]

Chances are if you apply this year you will get matched somewhere, provided that you are willing to apply to every state and accept rural offers. My current hospital (a medium size one in a regional city) were a few interns short and had to recruit IMGs. Anyone who applied here got an offer, and the same was true of the hospital where I trained.

Hi,Thank you very much for you reply. I'm willing to go to any hospitals in AU in the sense that I'm not worried about living out side of city/friends. But I'm super attached in geting into Urology/General surgery in the future, do you think going in to those rural hospitals makes applying to metro hospital/surgical resident positions later very hard that i'm forced to go primary care?

 

[bluefish18]

Internship has little effect on whether you get into those competitive specialities
At this early stage the things that you can do to increase your chances later on cam be done any where

 

[Futmob]

Internship has little effect on whether you get into those competitive specialities
At this early stage the things that you can do to increase your chances later on cam be done any where

Thats reassuring! Thank you very much for your reply

 

[lymphocyte]

Internship has little effect on whether you get into those competitive specialities
At this early stage the things that you can do to increase your chances later on cam be done any where

I would argue internships at smaller hospitals (especially rural) offer a better chance at more competitive training programmes. Mostly because you get better clinical exposure (you are generally NOT just a discharge monkey PGY-1 like you would be at the Centre of Excellence), you work with your bosses more closely, and you can get extra points for being rural.

 

[Futmob]

I would argue internships at smaller hospitals (especially rural) offer a better chance at more competitive training programmes. Mostly because you get better clinical exposure (you are generally NOT just a discharge monkey PGY-1 like you would be at the Centre of Excellence), you work with your bosses more closely, and you can get extra points for being rural.

What if they simply dont have a urology/ent department? Wouldnt that make things more difficult?

 

[lymphocyte]

What if they simply dont have a urology/ent department? Wouldnt that make things more difficult?

Probably not that small. I think the sweet spot is a friendly regional hospital MMM3, many of which do have ENT/Uro.