DDS/PhD Questions

[jental]

My PI for my clinical dental lab has recently started to talk to me about a DDS/PhD program and encouraging me to do it. I've heard about this previously but never really thought much about it because I haven't really been interested in research. In my lab I mainly just contact participants and I'm not sure how "research heavy" that is considered. I was also briefly in a protein lab for a year but I found it boring during that time since I didn't really understand too much and part of it was online during COVID. She seems to really want me to do it as I've mentioned I may be interested in dental public health and possible residency in ortho/peds. However, I would be happy with just general dentistry. I am also interested in the future in teaching a bit part time or just once in a while. I'm a bit stressed because she wants an answer relatively quick and it could be good because of the stipend/tuition payment since I am low income and will end up having to take out loans to pay for school. She is also encouraging me by saying I could still work as a dentist but then have my own lab and teach. However, I'm worried I don't have enough interest in research itself, but I do have some interest in teaching/public health.

Are you able to do some teaching/public health work with just a DDS? What is it truly like being in a DDS/PhD program and is it worth it? Again I would love to have it pay for my school but I don't know if it's worth it since it could be 7+ years. Would love any info on these programs/advice. Thank you!

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[macsak]

My PI for my clinical dental lab has recently started to talk to me about a DDS/PhD program and encouraging me to do it. I've heard about this previously but never really thought much about it because I haven't really been interested in research. In my lab I mainly just contact participants and I'm not sure how "research heavy" that is considered. I was also briefly in a protein lab for a year but I found it boring during that time since I didn't really understand too much and part of it was online during COVID. She seems to really want me to do it as I've mentioned I may be interested in dental public health and possible residency in ortho/peds. However, I would be happy with just general dentistry. I am also interested in the future in teaching a bit part time or just once in a while. I'm a bit stressed because she wants an answer relatively quick and it could be good because of the stipend/tuition payment since I am low income and will end up having to take out loans to pay for school. She is also encouraging me by saying I could still work as a dentist but then have my own lab and teach. However, I'm worried I don't have enough interest in research itself, but I do have some interest in teaching/public health.

Are you able to do some teaching/public health work with just a DDS? What is it truly like being in a DDS/PhD program and is it worth it? Again I would love to have it pay for my school but I don't know if it's worth it since it could be 7+ years. Would love any info on these programs/advice. Thank you!

have you already been accepted to a dental school?
does your PI work at a dental school?

 

[jental]

have you already been accepted to a dental school?
does your PI work at a dental school?

I have not since I plan on applying in the upcoming cycle and they do.

 

[Ryxndek]

It seems like you really don't have the drive to try and finish a PhD in 4 years. I also don't think the research you're doing is really indicative of what you'd be doing as a PhD in dental schools. I'd honestly just consider the DDS unless you're absolutely certain you'd want to do 4 years of a PhD and 4 years of a DDS. Also, the curriculum is so different from each other, and I find the politics of academia trying to do a PhD is more difficult than dental schools.

Yes, you can teach clinical courses with just your DDS. You wouldn't teach a course like Microbiology, Neuroscience, or Physiology. But you could teach a course on operative dentistry, oral anatomy, etc.

I considered maybe doing a PhD, but I realized putting myself through 4 years of something I'm not 100% passionate about and then having to deal with everything outside the PhD was something I really didn't want to put myself through even if I had the possibility of having my tuition free. (Which isn't always the case, depends on the school)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

First off, DDS/PhD is not set up as robustly as MD/PhD. There are NIH DSTP grants that are similar to MSTP grants, but the number of dental schools that are funded with T32's are not as many compared to the medical schools (at least 40 NIH funded and several not NIH-funded).

As far as I know, MUSC, UCSF, and Michigan have DSTP or DDS/PhD programs. Others can probably set up doing an independent PhD while you are a dental student (we helped one student at Case during my time). But for the most part, dental schools are designed to train you to be clinically competent as a dentist which requires dedicated time for you to work on your hand skills for dentistry. Research can take away from critical time you need to ascend the learning curve. Most students are not attracted to research in a dental context even though we need people in that research area.

Thus if you are going to be happy with your training as a general dentist first before taking on a PhD (perhaps), don't worry about the DSTP tracks. Unless you want to do academic dentistry/medicine and be involved with research full-time, the Ph.D. may not be as useful until later in your life.

I will also tell you: never do MSTP or DSTP because of the stipend or free tuition. The added time of training and payback requirements take away from potential positive income you may get. I suggest looking into HPSP or NHSC instead, or if research is really what you want, the conditions for LRP's and the different grant options you need to become an independent investigator.

 

[Ivy.ch]

I have not met all of the MD-PhD classmates in my medical school class, but of the ones I met, it seems they all regret it except one. I think some of them did it for the free tuition. They all struggle with the realization that they have to either choose to be a researcher or clinician, with difficulty finding ways to mix. I can only imagine it’s worse (certainly financially) for dentistry.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I have not met all of the MD-PhD classmates in my medical school class, but of the ones I met, it seems they all regret it except one. I think some of them did it for the free tuition. They all struggle with the realization that they have to either choose to be a researcher or clinician, with difficulty finding ways to mix. I can only imagine it’s worse (certainly financially) for dentistry.

Clearly they didn't go to our Physician Researchers forum where all the cool and enthusiastic MSTP folks hang out. At least there are actual MD/PhD's in the "real world" and they have a couple of associations to keep them all together (APSA being the main one I know).

Doing a DDS/PhD can't be done on the same timeline as most MSTP's where you usually get dedicated research time prior to clinical rotations. You have to learn so much with your hands in dental pre-clinic and you "lose it" if you take even a year break to do "research." No one can do research in a year anymore that gets to a Ph.D. thesis.

Also, normally only 3 people per class maximum are DSTP, so they don't complain as loudly.