Dealing with family criticism

[Magnolia28]

Hi SDN,
I don’t know if this belongs in the non traditional thread, but I thought the people here might be able to give me some advice on this topic.

Easter is coming up next weekend and I’m going to visit my extended family with my fiancé. He is in his first year of med school and I was rejected for the second time this cycle. While I’m only one year removed from undergrad, the more time that passes the more pressure I feel from my family to either make the med school thing work or move on to some other endeavor. I am finishing up paramedic school this summer so I’ll have a full time job soon but it feels like every year that I don’t get in my parents are becoming more frustrated. What makes matters worse is that my parents look at my fiancé (we had largely the same stats but he went to a prestigious school) and say “well why aren’t you making it in?”. I don’t have an answer for them.

I guess what I’m asking for is how to deal with family criticism about my career choices. No one else in my family is in medicine so they don’t really understand that my motivations outweigh a few years of “wasted time” in their eyes. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
-mag

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[Proudfather94]

Hi SDN,
I don’t know if this belongs in the non traditional thread, but I thought the people here might be able to give me some advice on this topic.

Easter is coming up next weekend and I’m going to visit my extended family with my fiancé. He is in his first year of med school and I was rejected for the second time this cycle. While I’m only one year removed from undergrad, the more time that passes the more pressure I feel from my family to either make the med school thing work or move on to some other endeavor. I am finishing up paramedic school this summer so I’ll have a full time job soon but it feels like every year that I don’t get in my parents are becoming more frustrated. What makes matters worse is that my parents look at my fiancé (we had largely the same stats but he went to a prestigious school) and say “well why aren’t you making it in?”. I don’t have an answer for them.

I guess what I’m asking for is how to deal with family criticism about my career choices. No one else in my family is in medicine so they don’t really understand that my motivations outweigh a few years of “wasted time” in their eyes. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
-mag

Honestly if they don't know how hard and selective it is to go into medical school they don't have a right to tell you to give up on your dreams. I would tell them that this is your dream and each year only about 40% of people who apply get to achieve it and you are not ready to give up yet.

 

[deleted1133766]

I have a buddy who's fiance told me that nursing school is harder than medical school. I had a classmate in college that told me getting into DPT programs is harder than getting into medical school.

...They were being serious too.

You just have to learn to filter out the noise in your life. You get better at doing that as you get older. Only give something up when you really don't want to do it or it is no longer reasonable.

 

[Proudfather94]

I have a buddy who's fiance told me that nursing school is harder than medical school. I had a classmate in college that told me getting into DPT programs is harder than getting into medical school.

...They were being serious too.

You just have to learn to filter out the noise in your life. You get better at doing that as you get older. Only give something up when you really don't want to do it or it is no longer reasonable.

I really want to see that person take genchem, ochem, and biochem and see where they stand on that opinion.

 

[deleted1133766]

I really want to see that person take genchem, ochem, and biochem and see where they stand on that opinion.

Her theory was that nursing school combined didactic and clinical coursework and that's what made it "harder." As for the other guy, I don't think he understood what the MCAT was all about.

You would be surprised how many people that are out there who are not pre-med's who have no idea what it takes to become a doctor.

My buddy who is a doctor said that when he graduated medical school, the doctors he used to shadow with said "welcome to the club." They know.

 

[Proudfather94]

Her theory was that nursing school combined didactic and clinical coursework and that's what made it "harder." As for the other guy, I don't think he understood what the MCAT was all about.

You would be surprised how many people that are out there who are not pre-med's who have no idea what it takes to become a doctor.

My buddy who is a doctor said that when he graduated medical school, the doctors he used to shadow with said "welcome to the club." They know.

I have friends and family that did nursing and the common theme was pharm and medsurg were the only make or break classes. The rest was smooth sailing.

 

[deleted1133766]

I have friends and family that did nursing and the common theme was pharm and medsurg were the only make or break classes. The rest was smooth sailing.

It all comes down to what you are familiar with. Nurses are familiar with nursing school and pre-med's are familiar with getting to medical school. Reasonable people will realize that they are two different paths and ignorant people will always offer up their .02.

 

[Mom hugs]

For context to my response: I am not close to my family and didn't tell them I was in college until I had to in my third year for the stupid FAFSA thing (married 10+ years, what a dump hoop). With only knowing about 2 years of the college I was doing, they asked if I was seeing patients yet.

Those who are not college educated or have not had an interest in becoming a physician, have a really difficult time understanding the depth of knowledge and dedication it takes to becoming a physician. I think it is really hard to conceptualize the time it takes to check off the boxes that you can list. EX: MCAT, just a test about all the stuff you've already been in school for, easy peasy. Research, you were doing that in school, and it is just one article, you write that every week.
What is hidden behind the curtain is the number of hours it takes to prepare for the MCAT and to be part of research, the hours that are spread across weeks and months and years for the testing, schooling, volunteering, and shadowing. It is almost foreign to have someone want something so bad that they would work endlessly for years upon years (and pay to play) to have a chance of getting into something they want.

To your parents, you now have an edge on your application, and you feel like this will be your best year yet. You have a spouse who is in school and willing to help you with your application, you have a new skill set/job that will show even further your dedication, and you have the confidence of a reapplicant that you know what is coming and you can grow/learn from your mistakes.

To you, I hope you have identified where you might have any weak points in your application and that you have a successful application cycle. Please don't beat yourself up, you are stronger than their doubts and words.

(Edit) Tldr; They cannot understand the lengths that we have to go to play this game, but your dedication is there.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I am wondering how the family specifically is pressuring you as opposed to you putting more pressure on yourself to please your family. It is a subtle difference, but I know it is hard for not getting in in the first place (especially if your significant other has been in school...). I'm sure you are more frustrated than your parents, but you have to move forward.

Have you talked to anyone in admissions at his school? There isn't a guarantee of admission, but there is some sympathy about wanting to keep a couple together. What feedback did you have, especially from your fiancé's school?

 

[Magnolia28]

I am wondering how the family specifically is pressuring you as opposed to you putting more pressure on yourself to please your family. It is a subtle difference, but I know it is hard for not getting in in the first place (especially if your significant other has been in school...). I'm sure you are more frustrated than your parents, but you have to move forward.

Have you talked to anyone in admissions at his school? There isn't a guarantee of admission, but there is some sympathy about wanting to keep a couple together. What feedback did you have, especially from your fiancé's school?

I think it’s probably a combination of both. The first year I didn’t get in my parents seemed a little upset but then moved on, but after this cycle it seems like every time we talk they’re lamenting about how I’m not in medical school yet. I do put a lot of pressure on myself to please them, it’s gotten easier now that we don’t live in the same area but I still want them to be happy.

I guess some background is that both of my parents are teachers and they’ve only shown me love and affection after I perform well academically. I understand logically that this is problematic behavior and takes a toll on me, but in an emotional sense I still want to make the grades and see them smile or tell me they’re proud.

I did talk to admissions at my fiancés school because I only applied there last cycle (I know I should apply broadly next time), it’s also my alma mater and even though it’s just a state school I love the atmosphere and people there. The student admissions dean basically said “you have to decide what you want more, your relationship, or being a physician”.

I got the vibe that he thought I was kind of stupid for wanting to go to the same school as my fiancé, like some silly high school girl who’s following her boyfriend to college only to break up a few months in. Other than that he said my application was good, I should just keep doing what I’m doing and reapply next year.

Thanks for the reply
-mag

 

[Dral]

You know this already and I certainly don't know your whole situation. I may be presumptuous here, but this is how a conservation could go:

"Why are you not in medical school yet?"
"Because I only applied to one school"

How many did you apply to for your first cycle? I know this is not the advice you're asking for here, but I'm curious.

In all seriousness, you could tell them that you only applied to one school and that is likely a big reason you didn't get in. Tell them you are applying to many more schools next year. This will hopefully hold off their judgement for a little while. However, I guess it could open up the possibility of them giving you flak for not applying more intelligently (I know that sounds harsh, but unless you had some solid in like nepotism going on, how did you only apply to one...ONE school?).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

"The student admissions dean basically said “you have to decide what you want more, your relationship, or being a phys

... I did talk to admissions at my fiancés school because I only applied there last cycle (I know I should apply broadly next time), it’s also my alma mater and even though it’s just a state school I love the atmosphere and people there. The student admissions dean basically said “you have to decide what you want more, your relationship, or being a physician”.

I got the vibe that he thought I was kind of stupid for wanting to go to the same school as my fiancé, like some silly high school girl who’s following her boyfriend to college only to break up a few months in. Other than that he said my application was good, I should just keep doing what I’m doing and reapply next year.

THAT is really upsetting and condescending! How well does your fiance know this person since he has been a student there? There's usually some history with previous students behind that type of remark.

Obviously do your best to overlook that remark. If your fiance is doing well in coursework, hopefully that bodes well for you if your application is reviewed and you make it clear your connection to the school.

 

[Magnolia28]

You know this already and I certainly don't know your whole situation. I may be presumptuous here, but this is how a conservation could go:

"Why are you not in medical school yet?"
"Because I only applied to one school"

How many did you apply to for your first cycle? I know this is not the advice you're asking for here, but I'm curious.

In all seriousness, you could tell them that you only applied to one school and that is likely a big reason you didn't get in. Tell them you are applying to many more schools next year. This will hopefully hold off their judgement for a little while. However, I guess it could open up the possibility of them giving you flak for not applying more intelligently (I know that sounds harsh, but unless you had some solid in like nepotism going on, how did you only apply to one...ONE school?).

I applied to 9 schools my first cycle, I think I had 4 secondaries and my only interview was with my state school. To give some context I live in South Dakota and there’s only one medical school in the whole state lol.

I’ll apply more broadly next cycle but I genuinely believe my best chance of getting in is at this school. Not only that, but they offer a MD-MBA program that is really attractive to me because I’m interested in opening my own practice.

I know applying to one school was a bad move but my fiancé and I were long distance all of college. I love living with him and I wasn’t ready to give that up. I’m more open to the idea now that I’ve had some time to think on it.

Thank you for the insight
-mag

 

[Magnolia28]

"The student admissions dean basically said “you have to decide what you want more, your relationship, or being a phys

THAT is really upsetting and condescending! How well does your fiance know this person since he has been a student there? There's usually some history with previous students behind that type of remark.

Obviously do your best to overlook that remark. If your fiance is doing well in coursework, hopefully that bodes well for you if your application is reviewed and you make it clear your connection to the school.

My fiancé doesn’t know the dean well at all, I think the only time they met was over the zoom interview.

I don’t think he’s trying to be condescending or rude, it just came off that way and I was pretty disheartened after the meeting. I understand the point he’s trying to make but I also know that I would rather wait a year or two to get in at this school than live thousands of miles away from the person I love the most for several years.

I think I’m doing a good job at strengthening my application. I trust that the admissions committee will let me in when I’m ready, it’s just dealing with outside opinions that make me question if I’m doing the right thing.

 

[Dr Meow]

The 9 school thing is the biggest reason you didn't get in.
I applied to around >50 between MD and DO and basically only got 1 DO.

Parents are giant road blocks. Had to deny them every step of my entire life at every step tooth and nail to get here.
Think of their words as equal to the words of a stranger because they probably know just as much or less than a random stranger.

It would be awesome to get into the same school as your fiance but realize this is a game of supply and demand.
You're competing against potentially 5000-7000 other applicants and a lots of them are exceptional for 200 or so spots.
They cannot make things easier for you just because you want to be close to your fiance unless you're elon musk and you can bribe the heck out of them.

 

[Crayola227]

"The student admissions dean basically said “you have to decide what you want more, your relationship, or being a phys

THAT is really upsetting and condescending! How well does your fiance know this person since he has been a student there? There's usually some history with previous students behind that type of remark.

Obviously do your best to overlook that remark. If your fiance is doing well in coursework, hopefully that bodes well for you if your application is reviewed and you make it clear your connection to the school.

Interesting all the credentials you have here on SDN and IRL, that you don't get the absolute pearl of truth in that advice. It is the unfortunate reality OP finds themselves in.

My college boyfriend became my fiancee. He was in academia, publish or die, and I was applying to med school and residency. We tried very hard but ended up having to do LDR for all of med school and would have had to for residency as well. That is frequently the reality of two people pursuing elite professions these days, no two ways about it. Love doesn't always triumph all when it comes to these things.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Hi SDN,
I don’t know if this belongs in the non traditional thread, but I thought the people here might be able to give me some advice on this topic.

Easter is coming up next weekend and I’m going to visit my extended family with my fiancé. He is in his first year of med school and I was rejected for the second time this cycle. While I’m only one year removed from undergrad, the more time that passes the more pressure I feel from my family to either make the med school thing work or move on to some other endeavor. I am finishing up paramedic school this summer so I’ll have a full time job soon but it feels like every year that I don’t get in my parents are becoming more frustrated. What makes matters worse is that my parents look at my fiancé (we had largely the same stats but he went to a prestigious school) and say “well why aren’t you making it in?”. I don’t have an answer for them.

I guess what I’m asking for is how to deal with family criticism about my career choices. No one else in my family is in medicine so they don’t really understand that my motivations outweigh a few years of “wasted time” in their eyes. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
-mag

Last night, I got a Facebook message from a non-traditional pre-med asking about how I deal with unsupportive and/or jealous family and friends. I told him that frequently, the more success that you have in life, the more people will stand against you and try to tear you down. Unfortunately, sometimes the people at the head of the line of people trying to tear you down will be family and people who you thought were friends.

One thing that is important to realize is that frequently when we are going through it with our family and friends, we don’t realize that the problem is not us. The problem is often THEIRS. We become too focused on what others are saying about or doing to us as opposed to accomplishing our goals, whether its finishing your dissertation, finishing your undergraduate studies, or gaining admissions to medical school. When we don’t finish what we set out to finish, we’ve just given our detractors more ammunition to throw back at us.

You have to recognize that not everyone is going to understand your path and desires to attend medical school or whatever your dream may be. Its OK and perhaps even necessary to acknowledge that there may be a reason behind their feelings but understand that reason usually has nothing to do with you. I tell these people that they need to take their issues up with God and leave me out of it.

Sometimes, unsupportive family and friends need education about what you are doing. My mother and oldest sister have had a habit of downgrading the work that Eboni (my wife) and I have done as doctoral students. I discovered that both needed some education. Amusingly, my sister is now dating a guy who recently finished his Ed.D and he has described in detail, what the dissertation process was like for him. Now my sister ‘gets it’. It is the same with the medical school admissions process. There is a lot to it and a lot of work that you have to put into it. If you don’t feel like explaining it all to them, that’s OK. Refer them to AACOMAS or AMCAS for some detail.

Don’t believe the myths that people put out into the universe about you. It’s taken me more than 10 long years to see my first U.S. medical school admissions. During that time, there were three MCAT exams (one very good and two not so good), two masters degrees and a PhD, a public health research career, and a career as university faculty. I also had a surgery, lost my mother-in-law, and helped my wife finish her doctoral studies. A LOT of people, friends and family and some of my wife’s friends and family, questioned my work ethic, my desire, my motivation, my sanity, whether or not Eboni and I should have stayed together, etc. When my mother-in-law passed, there were some who suggested that I was responsible for her passing. Over the years, I’ve heard some of the most hurtful things. I never believed a word of it. I’ve first and foremost listened to the dreams that God whispered to me. Next, I listed to what Eboni, Pam (my mother in law), and JJ (my wife’s cousin whom we adopted) had to say. Finally, I’ve listened to the countless words of thanks that my adopted family, people like Pat, Deb, Rob, Heath, Oscar, Destiney, Asia, and many of my mentees have shared about me. And you know what else? After Eboni and I got married and Eboni landed her first job as university faculty, a lot of these people who were saying such hateful stuff started to change their tune. People are funny and they are fickle. Don’t buy into the bull**** they are selling.

If you can’t get the support that you need from family and friends, find that support elsewhere. I always say that family isn’t necessarily related to you by blood. Family are those people who truly love and support you unconditionally. I realize that I will never be able to fully immerse my blood family in various aspects of my life. I came to grips with that years ago and I’m OK with it. The Lord has blessed me with other people who share my passions and understand my motivations. I have a supportive wife. Then there are Destiney and Asia; Destiney is like a daughter to me and Asia is like a younger sister. My best friend Heath, who I have known for 40+ years, has always pushed me to be my best and by extension, his children, especially his son Austin, who look up to me, are also motivators. My point is that there are people out there who will be down for you. Sometimes you have to search for them and you may end up finding them in the most unexpected ways, but you can have a family, or better yet, an army of people who support you.

So remember:

1. Your mission to medical school (or graduate school or dissertation completion or weight loss or whatever your goal is) should be your priority. A lot of people go through the motions in life, doing everything but what they love. These people end up constantly looking to the past and asking, “What. If?”
2. Life is short. Self-explanatory. Do what makes you happy and don’t spend your time feeling bad about what others say. You can no more control them and what they think then you can control the motions of the tides. Live your life.
3. Others may not understand your path. They are not required to,
4. Sometimes the people around you may be insecure. That’s their cross to bear, not yours.
5. Anything in life is possible. Your naysayers may try to give you every reason to give up on a dream, but I am here to tell you that anything is possible. When I applied to medical school in 2020, I thought that at best, I would have one or two interviews and if I was exceedingly lucky, I would have one medical school acceptance. I ended the cycle with five interviews and four acceptances. My stats suggested, according to conventional pre-medical academic advisor and Student Doctor Network wisdom, that I should not have gotten into medical school yet, I am finishing my 1st year. My wife always says, if it’s for you, its for you. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!
6. This is perhaps the most important. You can’t please everyone. We spend so much time trying to please people, yet we can’t seem to ever get it quite right. They will always have SOMETHING to complain about. It’s impossible to please everyone and we shouldn’t be trying. So now, my thing is to work at pleasing my wife and for everyone else, they need to take their requests to God. If they don’t like what I am doing, that is between them and God.

 

[Magnolia28]

The 9 school thing is the biggest reason you didn't get in.
I applied to around >50 between MD and DO and basically only got 1 DO.

Parents are giant road blocks. Had to deny them every step of my entire life at every step tooth and nail to get here.
Think of their words as equal to the words of a stranger because they probably know just as much or less than a random stranger.

It would be awesome to get into the same school as your fiance but realize this is a game of supply and demand.
You're competing against potentially 5000-7000 other applicants and a lots of them are exceptional for 200 or so spots.
They cannot make things easier for you just because you want to be close to your fiance unless you're elon musk and you can bribe the heck out of them.

Haha I suppose that’s part of the problem, I don’t have a lot of money so I can’t bribe anyone and I struggled to come up with the funds to apply to even 9 schools.
How did you apply to over 50 schools, if you don’t mind me asking?

 

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[TragicalDrFaust]

Want a little more detail before I respond, lest I project my own parents' eccentricities onto your situation. What about this process is making them frustrated? How are they expressing this frustration to you?

 

[Dr Meow]

Haha I suppose that’s part of the problem, I don’t have a lot of money so I can’t bribe anyone and I struggled to come up with the funds to apply to even 9 schools.
How did you apply to over 50 schools, if you don’t mind me asking?

Funds for me wasn't totally an issue because I worked for 7 years out of school....took the mcat like 3-4 times between then. I gave up on med school several times before constantly being drawn back in. I knew that I would accept no future path forwards except med school. But I just couldn't handle the mcat until I had exactly the right motivation.

In terms of applying to that quantity, I did that over 2 cycles though. About 25 - 30 each.
How did I do it? You spend all day writing essays as you get them.

At one point, I wanted to get out of my job so much that I spent my entire vacation (but I didn't want to tell them I wanted to apply to med school at that point), so I took a trip where I wrote my essays during the trip. Didn't get in.

Second cycle, I NEEDED to get out of my job even more than the first cycle. I spontaneously took 1 month off. Told them, I'm taking this time off or fire me.
Needless to say, I played it safe this cycle. I shot my chance at my job. It was do or die. DO only. I'm getting older and I can't spend any more time playing the MD game. MD means "many denials". I want DO "Do One" and DOne.

And here I am in med school. Nuts.

 

[Magnolia28]

Want a little more detail before I respond, lest I project my own parents' eccentricities onto your situation. What about this process is making them frustrated? How are they expressing this frustration to you?

Hi, sorry for the late reply, I only come to the forum every couple of weeks so I don’t stress myself out.

I think it’s a combination of things. Like I mentioned, no one else in my family is in medicine, so no one has ever seen someone go through the cycle before. I think that might be part of the problem.

Another problem is that my parents are teachers, and they’re not aware of their own bias towards me because I’m their kid. For example, after I broke the news to them that I didn’t get in this past cycle, they said stuff like “well how are you not getting in, you’re a top notch student and a really hard worker, why would they not be picking you??” I’m not sure how to make them understand that every candidate is good and I’m pretty average if not below average when it comes to med school candidates.

Another thing that I think is frustrating for them is that I can’t produce results that they want, as I’m out of school. When I lived at home, I was always their “yes man” when it came to academic achievements. If they wanted me to get the grades, I got them. If they wanted me to participate in honors programs, I excelled in them. Since I’m not in school, I don’t really have anything to tell them that they can brag about to other people.

A lot of this frustration comes in the form of snarky comments and questioning my motivation to go to med school. Like my dad will say things like “too bad you didn’t go to nursing school like I suggested” and my mom will say things like “are you sure you don’t just want to work for a few years and see where that takes you?” I’m paraphrasing and the context of these conversations alway revolves around the subtext that I’m not doing anything that impresses them right now.

To be honest, their attitude now is a lot better than it used to be so I should probably be grateful. Funny story, I got my first (and only) C during first semester freshman year of college and when I came home for break my parents yelled at me and asked if I was going to drop out. I think we have a better relationship now, but it used to be downright toxic and I think I’m still reeling from those years a little bit.

I hope that answers the questions.
-mag

 

[Dr Meow]

I feel you.

Just yesterday, my parents called and said "Did you remember person X? Do you know where X got into? He's in Yale."
I said.... "ah yes...Mr. Yale. He was also Mr. Harvard for undergrad".
Then my parents said "No one knows what DO is".
[You get what this implies? They were trying to use me as their bragging chip (as per usual) in their community and it didn't work because "no one knew what DO was".
Then they said "Well, can you transfer to a MD school?"
And I said "No and hung up".

You gotta set boundaries with your parents.
It helps that I've been independent for the past 11 years that they can no longer beat me up every time they feel dissatisfied with their life or if I can't live up to their standards as a chip to use in their bragging game or yell at me as a middle schooler saying that I'm useless. Worthless. I'm the cause of all their problems. That they'll kill me. There's those random times, I'd be sleeping, and then I randomly wake up to my dad dragging me out of bed, beating me up, tossing me outside the house saying "don't come back". Then I'd wander around the backyard wondering what do I do now? And then several hours later he'll let me back in the house saying bull**** like "You'll understand one day".

The days of sheer psychological torment were horrendous. I knew his intent of doing whatever to break me down. I entered the encounters with my mental shield I thought very strong. But every time, with both words and physical action, I could feel him chinking down my defenses bit by bit till I break then till I cry. Then he'd slap me over and over and say "why are you crying. Stop crying. Stop crying why are you crying". Then he'd be satisfied leaving me alone for a while. And then it repeats over and over again for years.

So yeah, don't be a slave to parents. They're just people.