Dealing with pre-pharm students

[radio frequency]

As a pre-pharmacy student, I never understood why pre-pharm students were so reviled. As a pharmacist, it's very clear now. Pre-pharmacy folks haven't yet been weeded through for admission and don't always contain the best of the bunch.

The questions I've been asked by pre-pharm techs border on the absurd to disdainful.

"Pharmacy school isn't hard, right? Because I heard it's really easy."

My answer would be: I actually thought it was really hard.

"I did really bad on the PCAT, but I have a great GPA; do you think they'll let me in? I don't want to take the PCAT again."

I would definitely just retake the PCAT instead of assuming your fabulous GPA will save you...

Some of these folks don't appear to have an actual lick of interest in pharmacy. To be fair, I've also met some great pre-pharmers, but not all are this way. What doozies have you heard?

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[Digsbe]

I've heard people say pharmacy school is really easy with pharmacy being a low stress job that's overpaid and that's why they want to go. There are also those ego-filled, pre-med esque pre-pharm students that are filled with arrogance and think they know everything. I saw a tech try to tell the pharmacist what to do and was trying to make clinical interventions when clearly they knew nothing. I also liked the pre-pharms who would try to illegally counsel on drugs and show off like saying "this is your beta-lactam antibiotic containing a beta-lactamase inhibitor" as if a patient is going to understand in the first place (and no one talks to patients like that). I love talking to pre-pharms, I like talking about school and pharmacy practice but many I have interacted with have been pretty fake.

Not all pre-pharms are like this, but there are some I certainly hope wouldn't get into pharmacy school (yet probably will because being rich kids they had good grades without needing to work and balance school with a job).

 

[gwarm01]

Trying to outsmart you when they don't really know what they're doing. Plenty of pharmacy students with that attitude as well, especially early on.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Speaking from experience from the pre-pharmacy forum:

1) Thinking that provider status, Obamacare, MTM, and an aging population will have a significant impact on pharmacist demand.
2) Getting angry when they're not spoonfed answers.
3) Still think that pharmacy is in demand and an easy path to a six figure salary.

#3 is why I try to send them on their way to computer programming and other fields that are more lucrative.

 

[SClENCE]

I honestly don't think there was another pre-pharm student in my entire college, but I can tell you that I always laughed at the "pre-med" students. I don't even think 10% of them made it into med school.

What I do notice is that a lot of students in pharmacy school (seems like 80% of the class) are planning to do a residency and work a wonderful hospital job where doctors are begging for their advise and they get to counsel patients who adore them. I don't know whether to fell sorry for them or laugh.

 

[fancy_]

When I was a pre-pharm, I definitely knew and thought pharmacy school was hard. I remember being a freshman and looking at the P1s and being like "Omg, I can't wait to be where you are...it seems so far away..I hope I make it".

I just completed my rotations and I had a student with me who was a prior nurse before going into pharmacy school. It was super annoying she would literally go and grab patients water if they requested and would fix their machines from beeping. I thought the school had told them not to do anything other than watch the P4. Obviously, I would do patient requests if they asked me but only after getting the go-ahead with their nurse.
We walked into a patient's room and I was counseling the patient and then all of a sudden she jetted out and both the patient and I were in a "WTF just happened" state. She went to grab the patient more water. Which I would have asked the nurse prior (the student hadn't asked) so I had to go and make sure it was okay with the nurse. That peeved me and I told the student just to ask me prior to doing anything that directly involved the patient in the hospital especially because she isn't employed with the hospital.

 

[SClENCE]

When I was a pre-pharm, I definitely knew and thought pharmacy school was hard. I remember being a freshman and looking at the P1s and being like "Omg, I can't wait to be where you are...it seems so far away..I hope I make it".

I just completed my rotations and I had a student with me who was a prior nurse before going into pharmacy school. It was super annoying she would literally go and grab patients water if they requested and would fix their machines from beeping. I thought the school had told them not to do anything other than watch the P4. Obviously, I would do patient requests if they asked me but only after getting the go-ahead with their nurse.
We walked into a patient's room and I was counseling the patient and then all of a sudden she jetted out and both the patient and I were in a "WTF just happened" state. She went to grab the patient more water. Which I would have asked the nurse prior (the student hadn't asked) so I had to go and make sure it was okay with the nurse. That peeved me and I told the student just to ask me prior to doing anything that directly involved the patient in the hospital especially because she isn't employed with the hospital.

Lol stuff like this drives me nuts. Stop with your water obsession and take notes!!!

 

[clarkbar]

As a pre-pharmacy student, I never understood why pre-pharm students were so reviled. As a pharmacist, it's very clear now. Pre-pharmacy folks haven't yet been weeded through for admission and don't always contain the best of the bunch.

The questions I've been asked by pre-pharm techs border on the absurd to disdainful.

"Pharmacy school isn't hard, right? Because I heard it's really easy."

My answer would be: I actually thought it was really hard.

"I did really bad on the PCAT, but I have a great GPA; do you think they'll let me in? I don't want to take the PCAT again."

I would definitely just retake the PCAT instead of assuming your fabulous GPA will save you...

Some of these folks don't appear to have an actual lick of interest in pharmacy. To be fair, I've also met some great pre-pharmers, but not all are this way. What doozies have you heard?

There are several myths about pharmacy, and many other things in life, with the general public, both what it entails and the general make-up of the thing. As a moral obligation, I englighten people about it all the time if asked. Pharmacy can be great, so I try to stick to facts and some people are well-suited for it. I think we forget our ignornance when we were college kids. Don't be too negative, because you will drive them away but calmly give a rebuttal to false information.

 

[Corpseman]

I thought pharmacy school was going to be hard as a prepharmer. Now, just a few rotations away from being done, I realize what a joke it actually is in comparison to what I thought. It's not easy by any means, but certainly wasn't what I was expecting.

 

[trailerpark]

Just a lot of busy work Definitely a let down as what I feel like I should know by graduation.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Knowing what I now know, I encourage pre-pharms to only go to cheap schools, or change their field entirely. I occasionally go on rants about the fact that CVS is buying everything, Walgreens is restructuring, and Express Scripts is steady laying off pharmacists, in addition to the fact that independents struggle to compete with the chains that keep popping up. I usually top it off with a "too many new schools" rant that @BMBiology would probably be proud of.

Last week, I had a prepharm at work tell me she doesn't think she'll ever use A&P as a pharmacist... Kden

 

[bananaface]

Cheap schools, yes. Interest rates on loans get to be snowballs with big loans.

Vet school is worse. Same loans, less than half the pay. Crazy.

 

[pillpharmer14]

Cheap schools, yes. Interest rates on loans get to be snowballs with big loans.

Vet school is worse. Same loans, less than half the pay. Crazy.

They do it for the animals.

 

[trailerpark]

People need to keep in mind even the cheap pharmacy schools cost a lot!!!!

 

[Farcus]

nope hospital pharmacy is not what most school bs feed you about doctors wanting your advice, generally speaking if you're in a large medical center yeh they might ask you if you're really good but most of the time you have to force feed it to the docs in the community hospitals cause god damn they're awful

 

[gwarm01]

nope hospital pharmacy is not what most school bs feed you about doctors wanting your advice, generally speaking if you're in a large medical center yeh they might ask you if you're really good but most of the time you have to force feed it to the docs in the community hospitals cause god damn they're awful

It's not so bad. Just forget all the crap they brainwash you with in pharmacy school. You're not there to be the hero, you're there to facilitate the process. I don't bother my docs over trivial, clinically insignificant issues. I call them when I have serious safety concerns or suspect a gross error has occurred, and they appreciate it. They trust me to handle issues with medication because they know I understand the big picture and don't need my hand held the whole time, which is something I can't say for some colleagues.

 

[Corpseman]

It's not so bad. Just forget all the crap they brainwash you with in pharmacy school. You're not there to be the hero, you're there to facilitate the process. I don't bother my docs over trivial, clinically insignificant issues. I call them when I have serious safety concerns or suspect a gross error has occurred, and they appreciate it. They trust me to handle issues with medication because they know I understand the big picture and don't need my hand held the whole time, which is something I can't say for some colleagues.

If you don't follow every little guideline for every patient you are going to kill someone! I can't believe you would be so irresponsible to disregard your training from the prestigious school of pharmacists. This right here is what is killing the profession...free thinkers!

 

[W19]

nope hospital pharmacy is not what most school bs feed you about doctors wanting your advice, generally speaking if you're in a large medical center yeh they might ask you if you're really good but most of the time you have to force feed it to the docs in the community hospitals cause god damn they're awful

 

[Farcus]

i speak the truth but only from my experience, i did my residency in a big academic teratiary center the whole 9 yard, now practice at a community hospital.

 

[zepp]

Speaking from experience from the pre-pharmacy forum:

1) Thinking that provider status, Obamacare, MTM, and an aging population will have a significant impact on pharmacist demand.
2) Getting angry when they're not spoonfed answers.
3) Still think that pharmacy is in demand and an easy path to a six figure salary.

#3 is why I try to send them on their way to computer programming and other fields that are more lucrative.

1). Why isn't this the case? Doesn't it make sense that with more customers you need more people to service them?

3). This is what I never understand. I hear people on here bash pharmacy saying there is no demand yet every job outlook has pharmacy as one of the ones above average that are still growing. So what gives? Why are they wrong?

 

[PharmtoCS]

1). Why isn't this the case? Doesn't it make sense that with more customers you need more people to service them?

There may be more customer demand, but that doesn't mean that it would be feasible to provide these services especially if we don't get reimbursed. That is unless we pharmacists want to work less than minimum wage or retail chains are willing to provide the service at a loss.

3). This is what I never understand. I hear people on here bash pharmacy saying there is no demand yet every job outlook has pharmacy as one of the ones above average that are still growing. So what gives? Why are they wrong?

The problem isn't so much lack of growth but rather the oversupply of pharmacists. Pharmacy schools are already pumping out graduates a rate of roughly 26% more than needed to meet demand (thus leading to as many as 26% of new grads being unemployed and more underemployed), yet more pharmacy schools continue to open with no end in sight. Computer programming, engineering, finance, and business are less risky career paths because they have similar or much better job prospects and do not require you to take out $200k+ loans and sacrifice 4 years of lost earning potential.

 

[SClENCE]

Demand is largely specific to location. My company is absolutely desperate for floaters (we are getting staff pharmacists from other stores and floaters from 2 hours away for our overlap).

 

[Dred Pirate]

It's not so bad. Just forget all the crap they brainwash you with in pharmacy school. You're not there to be the hero, you're there to facilitate the process. I don't bother my docs over trivial, clinically insignificant issues. I call them when I have serious safety concerns or suspect a gross error has occurred, and they appreciate it. They trust me to handle issues with medication because they know I understand the big picture and don't need my hand held the whole time, which is something I can't say for some colleagues.

this x1000 - I have a couple of good MD friends that I work with and there is a running joke of his "list" that currently has three of our RPh's on it that he ignores their first text and only calls back if they text him twice.