December graduation

[Medstudent2018]

Our program is now pushing everyone to graduate from med school in December (to shorten their time-to-degree stats and keep clerkship months they have to fund to the bare minimum). Seems like if we don't finish the PhD by mid fall, we'd be applying the following Sept without completing all the M3 rotations. Has anyone done this? What are your experiences?

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[Fencer]

95% of MD/PhD graduates go on to residencies, which most often start around July (some last week of June). Ask the PD what are you suppose to do between January and June.

 

[Medstudent2018]

They have told us to post-doc.

 

[gutonc]

They have told us to post-doc.

Did you tell them to suck it?

 

[Medstudent2018]

Did you tell them to suck it?

Hahaha I wish. Alas, I'm just a lowly grad student...

I guess I'm asking for experiences of people who have done this because I want to know:
1) how bad is it to try and apply for residencies before finishing all your M3 required clerkships
2) can you cut it during internship after not doing any medicine from Jan-June? (not applicable to path I suppose)
3) who's gonna hire a post-doc for 6 months?

This is a new thing at our school so any wisdom is appreciated (I should say our PD claims those are all non-issues)

 

[StIGMA]

Hahaha I wish. Alas, I'm just a lowly grad student...

I guess I'm asking for experiences of people who have done this because I want to know:
1) how bad is it to try and apply for residencies before finishing all your M3 required clerkships
2) can you cut it during internship after not doing any medicine from Jan-June? (not applicable to path I suppose)
3) who's gonna hire a post-doc for 6 months?

This is a new thing at our school so any wisdom is appreciated (I should say our PD claims those are all non-issues)

My school does a condensed M3/M4, but we graduate on time. Return to clerkships in January, graduate 17 months later in May, apply to residencies 9 months after starting M3 (January start M3, apply that September). We graduate in May after finishing M3 clerkships in the final spring. "M4" is smashed into the 17 months (12 months required M3 , interview time, and then M4 subI/electives gets what is leftover)

1) The most difficult part is getting Rec Letters. The school has to work with you to make sure all the important clerkships (medicine/surgery) are done prior to application including a subI in your field and ideally an elective/away rotation, and you take Step 2 without having completed M3. From what I can tell, not having completed M3 clerkships has not made a difference (eg: no-one asks "where is your OB/Gyn grade?") but having a limited time to get Rec Letters can hamstring you because of the limited time to develop relationships.
2) No experience. 6 months off shouldn't make a difference.
3) That sucks- Try to work with your PhD PI for those months as a post-doc.

Which month do you return to clinicals? When would you finish your required M3/M4 curriculum?

Your fellow students and you should resist this change (graduating in December).

 

[Medstudent2018]

I re-read the emails. I was a little off on the details but there are two options.

We have 14months of required M3+M4 clinicals (we only have 1 required M4 elective due to PhD counting as credit for all the rest. The regular med students have a long research block at the end M4 year)

Option 1:
If we return in the fall quarter (which begins Sept), we would finish by December the following year. Advantage is finishing M3 by the time applications are due, and maybe a sub-I. But having to cram in boards/rest of M4 before Dec sounds miserable. They said we can interview for residency in our EM block or in Jan during our post-doc.

Option 2:
If we return winter quarter (begins Jan), it would be the same scenario as your school, finishing in May. The advantage is having more flexibility in interview months. However, we wouldn't finish our M3 clerkships before boards or before applications are due. You mentioned needing to finish Surgery and IM before boards and interviews. Which M3 ones would you say are NOT important for boards then?

They are encouraging people to pick option 1 now, but I'm honestly not sure which of the two options is better. They both suck.

People who are set on very competitive specialties are allowed to come back 2 months early in order to do 2 aways (or 1 elective and 1 away).
At the end of the day it's all about cost-cutting and $$, pushing your pay onto the grad school or post-doc PI's shoulders.

 

[StIGMA]

I re-read the emails. I was a little off on the details but there are two options.

We have 14months of required M3+M4 clinicals (we only have 1 required M4 elective due to PhD counting as credit for all the rest. The regular med students have a long research block at the end M4 year)

Option 1:
If we return in the fall quarter (which begins Sept), we would finish by December the following year. Advantage is finishing M3 by the time applications are due, and maybe a sub-I. But having to cram in boards/rest of M4 before Dec sounds miserable. They said we can interview for residency in our EM block or in Jan during our post-doc.

Option 2:
If we return winter quarter (begins Jan), it would be the same scenario as your school, finishing in May. The advantage is having more flexibility in interview months. However, we wouldn't finish our M3 clerkships before boards or before applications are due. You mentioned needing to finish Surgery and IM before boards and interviews. Which M3 ones would you say are NOT important for boards then?

They are encouraging people to pick option 1 now, but I'm honestly not sure which of the two options is better. They both suck.

People who are set on very competitive specialties are allowed to come back 2 months early in order to do 2 aways (or 1 elective and 1 away).
At the end of the day it's all about cost-cutting and $$, pushing your pay onto the grad school or post-doc PI's shoulders.

Having options is a good thing. If you are in a position where you would graduate a year later (say, you finish your PhD in the fall, obligating you to do option 1), then you are stuck graduating a year later compared to having option #2, where you could still immediately start rotation in January (and not wait for the subsequent fall to start).

Step 2 material can be studied without doing the clerkship, so if you dont get to surgery or ob/gyn or psych you could study that on your own. IMO medicine would be the only requirement. Also, residencies may not even see your step 2 score. In regard to "cram in boards" with option 1, it would be even more crammed with option 2, because you would most likely be required to take the boards by the time rank lists are due in February (at the latest).

Different situations (mostly depending on when you defend your PhD) will determine which option is best for you. The main kick in the balls with option 1 is that they are making you graduate in December- so you would have to include your PI in discussions prior to defending when choosing option 1 (ie: guarantee they would pay for you that spring semester).

 

[Neuronix]

Did you tell them to suck it?

Post of the year.

We have 14months of required M3+M4 clinicals (we only have 1 required M4 elective due to PhD counting as credit for all the rest. The regular med students have a long research block at the end M4 year)

Option 1:
If we return in the fall quarter (which begins Sept), we would finish by December the following year. Advantage is finishing M3 by the time applications are due, and maybe a sub-I. But having to cram in boards/rest of M4 before Dec sounds miserable. They said we can interview for residency in our EM block or in Jan during our post-doc.

This is reasonable. Take step 2 late, the scores don't matter if you don't release them, and the exams are nowhere near as bad as step 1. The exception is if you need a high step 2 score for some reason, in which case take a month to study for it.

Option 2:
If we return winter quarter (begins Jan), it would be the same scenario as your school, finishing in May. The advantage is having more flexibility in interview months. However, we wouldn't finish our M3 clerkships before boards or before applications are due. You mentioned needing to finish Surgery and IM before boards and interviews. Which M3 ones would you say are NOT important for boards then?

They're all important for boards and applications. Don't do this.

People who are set on very competitive specialties are allowed to come back 2 months early in order to do 2 aways (or 1 elective and 1 away).

Good idea. This is a good idea for even not so competitive specialties.

 

[StIGMA]

They're all important for boards and applications. Don't do this.

I absolutely agree that a non-condensed/pressured M3/M4 is best. However if the choice is graduating a year later & scrambling for a research job versus a slightly higher stress, condensed M3/M4, there are those who would choose the latter and be effective. Option 2 may be preferred if you can start rotations in the fall (therefore having more time and getting paid during your final spring clerkships). If you are certain you will have a competitive application, keep option 2 on the table. If you are an average applicant, give yourself more time in M3/M4, especially if you are applying into a competitive field (or don't yet know which field you want to do).