deciding between...

[softnectar]

Hi everyone, I am a psychology undergrad trying to decide which career path to go into. I've narrowed it down between school psychology and clinical psychology. My interests have always been to work with children, I would really like working in an elementary school setting and overall assessments/intervention/planning sounds appealing to me. The reason I've had trouble deciding was my concern over future career limitations. If sometime down the line I wanted to do something like open my own shelter for battered women/children and provide services for them I don't think my education or knowledge would be useful or applicable like a clinical program would be. Someone on here did mention being a clinical psychologist and still being able to work in a variety of places like a school but the school psychologist jobs I researched in my state all require you to be school licensed. I enjoy doing research, but I have no interest in teaching so I don't think a doctorate degree is in the picture. Any advice or insight is appreciated

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[chelly78]

Have you looked into general doctoral programs in counseling psychology? I know of people from counseling psych programs who have done a wide variety of things. One of my current fellow interns worked for a couple of years as a school psychologist and is now working in a VA. By doing general counseling, you wouldn't be as limited as a degree specifically in school psych, but could still be marketable for those types of jobs.

 

[bmedclinic]

OP,
I'm a clinical psychologist, and that's my bias. But let me be clear, there are some fantastic school programs out there that will not limit you at all. I've known several of their graduates and those people can get whatever jobs they want, so they are not at all limited to a school setting.

 

[smalltownpsych]

What does school licensed mean? Is that for the MA level degree? if so, pursuing that degree is much more limiting than becoming an actual licensed psychologist. I doubt that licensed psychologists are not allowed to work in schools, it is probably that the schools don't want to pay them.

 

[bmedclinic]

What does school licensed mean? Is that for the MA level degree? if so, pursuing that degree is much more limiting than becoming an actual licensed psychologist. I doubt that licensed psychologists are not allowed to work in schools, it is probably that the schools don't want to pay them.

depends on the state. Some states license you based on your specific education. For example, I went to a clinical program in a certain state but in the state I currently work in, that means I can only be licensed as a clinical psychologist, not a school psychologist or an I/O psychologist. In my case, I dont care- but some people want to practice in all sorts of ways, so they need to make sure they go to programs that can/will offer the courses to fulfill the requirements of multiple state requirements.

 

[smalltownpsych]

depends on the state. Some states license you based on your specific education. For example, I went to a clinical program in a certain state but in the state I currently work in, that means I can only be licensed as a clinical psychologist, not a school psychologist or an I/O psychologist. In my case, I dont care- but some people want to practice in all sorts of ways, so they need to make sure they go to programs that can/will offer the courses to fulfill the requirements of multiple state requirements.

Leads me to the question of: why does it seem that the medical profession do a much better job of standardizing their training and specialization process?

 

[deleted343839]

Leads me to the question of: why does it seem that the medical profession do a much better job of standardizing their training and specialization process?

Medical training in the US has only been rigorously standardized for about 100 years. Our profession is much younger and has been slow to recognize the need to shutter programs and stop the hemorrhage of new graduates with such variable training. Medicine did that dirty work in the early 1900s and was better off for it. But that's a separate thread...

 

[bmedclinic]

Leads me to the question of: why does it seem that the medical profession do a much better job of standardizing their training and specialization process?

even though their specialization process seems more standardized (Step 1- 3), they have a problem with people moonlighting outside their area of competence that I've observed on a pretty regular basis. I can cite several times where internists with relatively little psych specialized training are hired as "psychiatrists" or fam med physicians moonlighting at an ER, etc. Not saying those people dont have the skillset, but I will say I cant get hired as a neuropsychologist either, even though I have a few semesters of neuro experience.

EDIT: But also, you're right in that psych needs to do a better job controlling and organizing our training. But alas, we complain/lament about that on these boards every day...

 

[deleted343839]

even though their specialization process seems more standardized (Step 1- 3), they have a problem with people moonlighting outside their area of competence that I've observed on a pretty regular basis

It's hard to extrapolate the issues with moonlighting/locum jobs because these are driven more by economic pressures than training models and standards. For the most part medicine embraces specialization and board certification, whereas this is far from true for psychology. (And nothing is stopping you from calling yourself a neuropsychologist, by the way.)

You also have people practicing on the fringes ("anti-aging medicine," etc.) but that is true of any health profession.

 

[smalltownpsych]

even though their specialization process seems more standardized (Step 1- 3), they have a problem with people moonlighting outside their area of competence that I've observed on a pretty regular basis. I can cite several times where internists with relatively little psych specialized training are hired as "psychiatrists" or fam med physicians moonlighting at an ER, etc. Not saying those people dont have the skillset, but I will say I cant get hired as a neuropsychologist either, even though I have a few semesters of neuro experience.

EDIT: But also, you're right in that psych needs to do a better job controlling and organizing our training. But alas, we complain/lament about that on these boards every day...

Yep. Maybe we need a complaining/lamenting emoticon to capture that sentiment.

This one is close.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

even though their specialization process seems more standardized (Step 1- 3), they have a problem with people moonlighting outside their area of competence that I've observed on a pretty regular basis. I can cite several times where internists with relatively little psych specialized training are hired as "psychiatrists" or fam med physicians moonlighting at an ER, etc. Not saying those people dont have the skillset, but I will say I cant get hired as a neuropsychologist either, even though I have a few semesters of neuro experience.

EDIT: But also, you're right in that psych needs to do a better job controlling and organizing our training. But alas, we complain/lament about that on these boards every day...

You'd be surprised. I've seen people with less experience than that conducting "neuropsychological" evaluations and/or billing themselves as neuropsychologists.

But yes, as has been said before, psychology needs its own version of the Flexner report. A more consistent embracing of board-certification for specialty areas of practice may also be helpful, although getting agreement on what areas should and shouldn't be included...yeah, tough.

 

[softnectar]

depends on the state. Some states license you based on your specific education. For example, I went to a clinical program in a certain state but in the state I currently work in, that means I can only be licensed as a clinical psychologist, not a school psychologist or an I/O psychologist. In my case, I dont care- but some people want to practice in all sorts of ways, so they need to make sure they go to programs that can/will offer the courses to fulfill the requirements of multiple state requirements.

Thanks for clarifying this. My confusion stemmed from reading that someone on here has their clinical and was able to/had known others that worked within schools too. It seemed like a win win for my specific situation. It's kind of a bummer that some states require it and others don't. It would be nice to go the clinical route simply for the fact that I can find work in a lot more areas, but at the same time I'm not sure that I want to be doing clinical work with adult population... for some reason it seems more emotionally draining than with children (I probably don't have any room to speak on this because I don't know what it's really like). I suppose you build an emotional and mental immunity at some point...

 

[ClinicalABA]

Someone on here did mention being a clinical psychologist and still being able to work in a variety of places like a school but the school psychologist jobs I researched in my state all require you to be school licensed. I enjoy doing research, but I have no interest in teaching so I don't think a doctorate degree is in the picture. Any advice or insight is appreciated .

That may have been me. I spend about 1/3 of my time consulting to elementary and pre-schools. While I'm licensed as a clinical psychologist, my school consultation is billed almost exclusively under my behavior analyst certification. The work focuses on general consult to staff, functional assessment and intervention for problematic behaviors, social skills instruction, and program development/oversight for children diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. I just don't run into clinical psychologists working in the schools. I'll see them at an IEP meeting reviewing results of an external evaluation, but that's it. All the schools/districts I'm in have a school psychologist who primarily does testing, but may get involved with social skills training and some behavioral interventions. Generally, they are licensed at the masters level, but some have doctorates. The trend really is for BCBAs to conduct functional behavior assessments and design interventions, and many school districts have a BCBA on staff. It's been my experience that schools just aren't in the business of providing psychotherapy, the the role of the traditional clinical psychologist is limited. I actually did a school consult rotation as part of my APA pre-doc internship. It was a great training experience. The site has had to phase out that rotation, as APA got strict about supervisors having to be on site with the interns. Even though they were always available (via beeper and land line at that time!) apparently wasn't good enough.
There are some good doctoral programs with a focus on school related issues. While not necessarily in clinical psych, there are programs at Syracuse, Lehigh, and UMass that concentrate on school issues and will prepare you for doctoral level licensure as a psychologist/health service provider ( which, at least in my state, is the same licensure I have with my clinical Ph.D.).

 

[bmedclinic]

(And nothing is stopping you from calling yourself a neuropsychologist, by the way.)

Well, at least, ethically and professionally, I cant call myself a neuropsychologist any more than I can call myself a clinical health psychologist, because I am not board certified in either of those. I am a licensed clinical psychologist with a ton of health psych training who is going to seek CHP Board cert. However, I can never be board cert in neuro bc I dont (and dont want) the 2 year postdoc in that area. Based off that, I think that ethically it's pretty clear that it'd be misleading, at best, to call myself a neuropsychologist.

 

[bmedclinic]

Yep. Maybe we need a complaining/lamenting emoticon to capture that sentiment.

This one is close.

is that wall the internship imbalance or FSPS?

 

[smalltownpsych]

is that wall the internship imbalance or FSPS?

Maybe it's a projective test.