Menu Icon Search
Close Search

About the ads

  1. If you prefer the SDN Blue style, go to the bottom left of the page and select "SDN Blue"

Degree in China through Beth Healthcare LLC and China Medical University ( CMU )

Discussion in 'China and Eastern Asia' started by toothiemonster, 04.26.10.

  1. toothiemonster

    toothiemonster

    Joined:
    02.26.08
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    NV
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member

    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Has anyone spoken to their prehealth advisors about this "degree in china" program through Beth Healthcare LLC in irvine, CA. They are also supposed to be working with New York Medical College and China Medical University.

    Yes, they have been working on this program for a while, but I still do not think that a program in China will teach the students enough to pass all 3 parts of the USMLE.

    Even if you do pass, will the student actually be able to get a good residency, and eventually be hired by someone?

    Also, opinions about this program are welcome. I couldn't find a good thread about this program.
  2. Oncoloman

    Oncoloman Member

    Joined:
    03.29.10
    Messages:
    214
    Status:
    Pre-Medical

    My brother-in law is involved in this type of program. He truly enjoys it and has "told" me he "once" took a practice Step 2 USMLE and did awesome. Their training is pretty strict though...since they start their students usually right out of junior high. Because of this he had some catching up to do. His training was supposed to be in English but the school reneged on their promise so he had to learn Chinese :laugh:. Overall he says the experience is terrific but not for the faint of heart due to the cultural differences and the level of training. I know some US residents who make claims of abuse but after telling them a few stories I heard they were scared straight. I say this not to say that China is better but only to provide you with some of the impressions from those who are in it. I guess in the end its just up to what you are interested in; a new experience or the traditional path of medicine. Overall though he says that the two systems are very much different and having to transfer over to the US would be hectic. The living expense in china though is bar-none. Just my take.
  3. toothiemonster

    toothiemonster

    Joined:
    02.26.08
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    NV
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Thanks for the info. They said that this program is 30 US students going to China to learn in english. They will also teach them chinese too. So i'm pretty sure these US students will all be college graduates or had some form of college.
    Has your brother in law passed the 3 step USMLE? Or has he decided to stay in china?
  4. kirkmedical

    kirkmedical

    Joined:
    06.14.10
    Messages:
    2
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I've heard about this program and it is 30 students who are supposed to go to China, but CMU's English program is not recognized by the California Medical Board nor by the New York Medical Board. Also, if they are still not recognized by the NYMB by the time you finish the 4 years at China Medical University, you wont be able to enroll your 5th year at New York Medical College to complete the internship. This means that you wont be able to get your medical degree, which would be administered after you complete your 5th year at NYMC.

    I don't know if they have actually applied to be recognized by California and New York yet. Even though China Medical University is recognized by the CMB it states that

    "Warning: Some recognized medical schools that teach in their native language are opening English language medical school programs. The English language programs are not recognized unless specifically stated, e.g., "University of Pecs Faculty Medicine" and "Pecs University Medical School English Program (6-year English Program)." The English language programs must apply for recognition and receive approval from the Medical Board of California for the education received from the English language program to be eligible to qualify an applicant for licensure requirements in California."

    http://www.medbd.ca.gov/applicant/schools_recognized.html

    It seems kind of risky to go away for that long and not be sure that you'll be able to practice in California or New York. The program seems like a nice concept, but going to a Caribbean school is shorter and they have internship programs that allow you to do the same thing doing less time outside of the U.S.
  5. lmesina

    lmesina easily amused

    Joined:
    06.16.10
    Messages:
    189
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Are you sure about that? Where are you getting this information? Doing rotations in an institution shouldn't/isn't contingent on whether the school is recognized by the state's board (for licensing purposes). They're just rotations.

    Also, CMB is instituting separate board recognition for English based programs of well-established schools (like CMU), but does the New York board do the same?
  6. TBK

    TBK

    Joined:
    06.02.10
    Messages:
    16
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Has anyone been accepted to this school yet this year? If so, how are you dealing with the tuition? they asked for it so soon after acceptance! I'm trying to work with my bank for options on payment. The bank gave me fits for randomnly asking to withdraw 17500!
  7. JHU0737

    JHU0737

    Joined:
    12.22.11
    Messages:
    3
    Status:
    Pre-Medical

    It is understood that none of English programs at medicalschools in China got recognized in California or New York simply because they haven’t applied yet. But that doesn’t mean they can NOT be approved. Based on the fact that those medical schools without hospitals nor advanced research lab could have gotten approved, there is no reason why they can’t be recognized once they apply.
  8. JMTX

    JMTX

    Joined:
    01.19.12
    Messages:
    5
    I'm an actual student at the university, but not affiliated with Beth healthcare. I joined this forum to give some clarification so that others are given truthful information to make better decisions. I'm also friends with the majority of the 2 US batches (Beth healthcare)

    For classes wise, if ur basing it purely on CMU classes, there's no way you will be able to write USMLE / ? CMCQEE and pass. It's physically impossible - the education standards are just too far off. However, I'm part of the 'support' group in CMU. I'm following our seniors footsteps prepping for the USMLE and intend to write it feb 2013. Doing well for the USMLE is possible here, as my seniors have gotten 260's, 240's. Some have written step 2 with 240's.


    Uhhh... I see no truth in this statement, as I have yet to witness this myself. Although, if I can say something, he was right in that it is not for the faint of heart. For all of us who are prepping for the steps and for those that have written it here, we all self taught ourselves medicine. Seriously, you have to be very self disciplined because no one is going to hold your hand here.

    Yes, they learn in english, with a Chinese class to help you transition here, sorta. As of right now, there are only 21 students, split over 2 classes.

    It is, and you are completely right. They are not board approved yet. There are some students who intend to go home will look into this problem in a few months.

    Wrong question. It's a communist country. They're all about corruption and money, so essentially, they'll accept anyone. Literally. But that's not all that different from the carribeans either, as they'll accept anyone too. The way we look at it, the ones who are serious about it at least, it's a cheaper alternative to med school at home and the most important thing is to graduate and go home
    Last edited: 06.07.12
  9. ricklee

    ricklee

    Joined:
    08.19.10
    Messages:
    26
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    I am from China, and I known " China Medical University" is not even a top medical school in China. My first sense about this program is ---another form of Caribbean Medical school. China has some good med-schools, but this one is definitely on the list. Be carful
  10. JMTX

    JMTX

    Joined:
    01.19.12
    Messages:
    5
    CMU is an A list med school in china. There's a lot of Chinese med schools that are named 'china medical university', the majority being B or C list schools. This one is in shenyang, liaoning, shenyang沈阳, 辽宁, to my knowledge, the only A list school in north east china, next to Beijing. I think there's only 12-15 A ranked schools in china. with that said, the education standards can't match US standards, as for carribean schools, I'm sure their English and classes are probably better
  11. Dont Be Fooled

    Dont Be Fooled

    Joined:
    01.31.12
    Messages:
    1
    I hope some people get to read this.

    DO NOT JOIN THIS PROGRAM.

    I have close ties with current students in their "program."
    She regrets joining their program intensely.
    Waste of time and money.
    Absolutely nothing to show for it.
    The "president" of Beth Healthcare, James Hu, is shady and a liar.
    Do not fall for this program.
    Run as far away from this SCAM as you possibly can.
    You have been warned.

    DO NOT JOIN THIS PROGRAM.
  12. Jowo

    Jowo

    Joined:
    05.23.11
    Messages:
    20
    Can you clarify why you call this program a scam?


    Thanks
  13. wksun88

    wksun88

    Joined:
    05.07.10
    Messages:
    28
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    I'm currently a student of this program and I can say for a fact that it isn't as bad as what some of you make it out to be. Sure there's a few kinks that need to be worked out, but overall the medical school experience is what you make of it. At the end of the day, no matter where you are you still need to put in the study hours on a weekly basis to do well and build a strong basic sciences foundation to take on the step 1. Our class has spoken with NYMC on multiple occasions and the overall gist of it was that they did not see any reason why the program wouldn't be approved by the NY education board. As of now, it is currently being worked on and it's taking time since there's 3 parties involved but I'm pretty confident it will be done far in advance of our start date at NYMC. Just my .02
  14. JHU0737

    JHU0737

    Joined:
    12.22.11
    Messages:
    3
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    If you are from China, you should be able to check it out with the Ministry of Health to find out whether China Medical University (CMU) located in the city of Shenyang of Liaoning Provice is one of top-10 medical schools in China or not. CMU has 4 own teaching hospitals with over 8,000 beds and 12 advacned research lab whereas none of those medical schools in the Carribean Sea has such facilities. So you better double check before you put the info. on the forum.
  15. ElCapone

    ElCapone Mafioso In Training

    Joined:
    04.24.11
    Messages:
    2,431
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Sounds legit....
  16. whatbout2morrow

    whatbout2morrow My brother's keeper Bronze Donor

    Joined:
    11.14.08
    Messages:
    849
    Location:
    Innisfree
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Currently, only students of 14 international medical schools are allowed to do more than 12 weeks of rotations in New York.

    http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/GME/documents/12_week_rule_and_additional_information.pdf
    http://www.mssm.edu/static_files/Te...l/electives/pdf/nys_letter_of_eligibility.pdf
    http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/med/part60.htm

    The NYMC website does not currently list CMU as one of the international medical schools it will accept exchange students from.

    http://www.nymc.edu/studentservices/InternationalStudentInformation.html

    OP, I'd wait until the program gets New York approval and a formal exchange agreement with NYMC.
  17. aSagacious

    aSagacious Send in the clowns Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    11.16.10
    Messages:
    8,123
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Moving to the international forum.
  18. bidiboom

    bidiboom

    Joined:
    07.13.11
    Messages:
    287
    Status:
    Non-Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
  19. cmustaff

    cmustaff

    Joined:
    05.09.12
    Messages:
    1
    x
    Last edited: 06.06.12
  20. kingsha

    kingsha

    Joined:
    05.11.12
    Messages:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Hi cmuStaff, Can you please give me your email address I am really interested in the program and I would like to contact you for additional information.
    Or email me bobbibrown@live.ca
    Thank you
  21. uhsemaj

    uhsemaj

    Joined:
    05.15.12
    Messages:
    4
    x
    Last edited: 05.16.12
  22. uhsemaj

    uhsemaj

    Joined:
    05.15.12
    Messages:
    4
    x
    Last edited: 06.06.12
  23. JMTX

    JMTX

    Joined:
    01.19.12
    Messages:
    5
    Edited

    That's true, med school is what you make of it regardless of where you are. However, I think he missed the point that you can do internship practically anywhere, but without approval, you cannot go back and do your residency and ultimately work in 'that' state (so essentially, no residency, no work - which I assume, would be the ultimate goal of anyone studying med school overseas).

    The international batch (not affiliated with Beth healthcare) is currently in this problem; where we do not have approval from some states restricting us where we can go back and do our residency and ultimately get hired.

    That's very true. However, the number of facilities accessible by students is not disclosed (and if you saw them, you would be... Surpised [to put it lightly]). The majority of their 'advanced' facilities are for the hospitals' own research/payroll staff, allowing no student access. The actual student accessible areas are ... As old as the school itself (you should look it up). However, by shear numbers, CMU does trump the carribeans -> by a whopping 1.2 billion.
    Last edited: 06.06.12
  24. JMTX

    JMTX

    Joined:
    01.19.12
    Messages:
    5
    Edited June 6, 2012 23:17

    Recently, I had written some posts and now have taken them down (Edit June 7, 2012 17:36) For clarification, the posts were taken down after I had come to an agreement with the author of a post that I found offensive.

    Whichever route you take for medicine, I wish you all (prospective students) the best.

    If you happen to come here to CMU via Beth healthcare or not, a few others and I have set up a support group and system, students helping students, to help pass the USMLE steps 1&2 with amazing scores (it's a work in progress, passed down from those who have taken the steps and tweaked as the years go by). Another words, whether you're screwed or not, we'll try to help you make the best of it.
    Last edited: 06.07.12
  25. uhsemaj

    uhsemaj

    Joined:
    05.15.12
    Messages:
    4
    Thank you for the information.
  26. uhsemaj

    uhsemaj

    Joined:
    05.15.12
    Messages:
    4
    Thank you for the information.
  27. unizh82

    unizh82

    Joined:
    06.22.12
    Messages:
    5
    As far as I know Beth is still working hard to get the accreditation squared away. However, they cannot guarantee a success. In the meantime, students are still being accepted at their own risk of not being able to return to the U.S. to start residency. Therefore, many potential applicants have shied away and are looking for medical school elsewhere.
  28. Bingogame

    Bingogame

    Joined:
    08.21.12
    Messages:
    3
    Status:
    Non-Student
    Kind of dilema. The CMU shows "North America Class" in their website. But, actually it is operated by Beth. Beth keeps showing some communication documents between NYMC and them. So, I have no ideas to make a decision of application or not
  29. 2012class

    2012class

    Joined:
    09.20.12
    Messages:
    1
    Status:
    MD/PhD Student
    Before joining the program for the 2012 class at China Medical University, I contacted New York Medical College and confirmed that they have a written agreement in place to provide a one-year clinical training for the 5th year to U.S. students who complete the 4-year study at China Medical University.
  30. unizh82

    unizh82

    Joined:
    06.22.12
    Messages:
    5
    As a prospective student I did some research myself. The written agreement is in place but it is contingent on accreditation by the Medical Board of NY. Accreditation may be the sticking point since Beth will not submit the application until the new campus is built which may or may not happen. Current students may be left in limbo if this doesn't happen on time for their 5th year rotation at NYMC.
  31. Bingogame

    Bingogame

    Joined:
    08.21.12
    Messages:
    3
    Status:
    Non-Student
    Should be okay though time is quite limited. International Education School of CMU will move to new campus next year, according to their staffs. Let's await and see.
  32. unizh82

    unizh82

    Joined:
    06.22.12
    Messages:
    5
    Let's wait and see is not good enough if you have to risk $17 k and precious time. As mentioned above, students are risking being left in the cold if accreditation is delayed or not granted. Also, if enrollment of new students remains low Beth may not be able to pull through financially. At this point I have decided to apply elsewhere.
  33. unizh82

    unizh82

    Joined:
    06.22.12
    Messages:
    5
    I recently learned from a reliable source that some students from last year's class have left the program and are looking to transfer to different programs. Detailed information is difficult to come by. In the meantime, Beth Healthcare is continuing to recruit new students despite the fact that they can not guarantee accreditation.

    Update: After speaking to Beth Healthcare I learned that they are planning to submit their application to become accredited in CA and NY. However, this process takes at least 2 years if things go smoothly. Assuming that they will start this process sometime in 2013 in the best case scenario accreditation will not be granted until 2015. The first class is supposed to start their clinical year in 2014 and they will therefore not be able to start their clinical rotation without a one year wait. In the worst case scenario none of the students will be able to graduate. This will result in a devastating loss of 4 precious years and over $100 k (tuition and living expenses).
    Last edited: 10.29.12
  34. unizh82

    unizh82

    Joined:
    06.22.12
    Messages:
    5
    I am posting this to warn everybody who is considering this program to stay away and look elsewhere.
    These are the reasons their president Mr. Hu doesn't want you to know:
    1) Beth will not be able to get accreditation in New York or CA in time to allow the current students to start their 5th year.
    2) Without accreditation the students will not be able to get student loans. In fact, Beth has promised for over 2 years that students will be approved for loans "soon".
    3) About 10 students of the 2011 class have left the program and returned to the US to enroll into other schools because of the uncertain future. The remaining students were told to join the international program at CMU. Their future is very bleak as they will not be able to match in a residency program in the US.
    4) With the residency crunch IMG's will have very little chance to match in the US.

    I sincerely hope that nobody will fall into this trap.

// Share //

Style: SDN Universal