billclinton said:
Hey, I was wondering when CNU would show up. It's neato's alter ego. Search their previous posts... you will find that CNU only posts on these type of threads (ODs vs. MDs). Anyways, more inaccuracies and lies! You should also notice that CNU/neato never use any links or sources... they only use their imagination.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos073.htm
You will see that the government's bureau of labor statistics states that optometrists avg salary was $88k. Also, even the American Optometric Association says the average is $114 (the max being $160k). The thing with the AOA is that their numbers are highly inflated. Just as with any salary survey of this type, the people that make more money are more likely to fill out and send back. The real avg is closer to what the BLS says... a little over $80k.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos073.htm
I said I was done, but Bill's lies are just too ridiculous for me to fight the urge.
Billclinton:
1.) Quit trolling.
2.) Get a life. I can't believe you actually have the time to sit around follow posts to see who posts in similar forums as I do. For that matter, CNU is not me and I did not ask/tell him to write the above post. Honestly, I wish he wouldn't have wrote that because I would rather Huntindoc spend the time to find out the truth instead of listening to your (wrong) opinions. I post on MD vs OD threads because its something I know alot about.
I could sit here and come up with conspiracy theory's against Bill, but I don't think I'll stoop to his level.
WTW: I'd be happy to admit I was wrong if I were, but I'm not. I think you should take your own advice.
Since we're living in the US, the tradition is that the prosecution is responsible for providing the proof (not the defendant). Anyway, you want facts, here you go:
I said:
Optometrists can actually make more than MD primary care providers. I was right. Using BillClintons source:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings
Over one year in specialty
Internal medicine: General 166,427
Pediatrics: General 161,331
Family practice (w/o ob) 156,010
So, then, what I said was true! If the max reported OCO opt is 166k, and the avg FP makes 156k, then some optometrist somewhere has to be making more than an FP. You might want to go take a general statistics class sometime Bill. You just proved yourself wrong or illiterate...I'm not sure which.
But, wait! Hold on, remember BillClinton claims that such numbers as the ones I reported above "are highly inflated" (see above post for his logic)! Now, using Bill's same logic, then we must be able to assume that the true Family practice (w/o ob) makes an average of ~100k (I extrapolated 114k down to 80 and then used the same method for the Fam Prac. reported 150). If you read the text in Bill's optometry link, you'll see a line that says the following regarding its reporting of optometrists' salaries, "In the long run, however, those in private practice usually earn more." That's a direct quote!
Who's making up stuff Bill? As a matter of fact, the evidence says exactly the opposite of what you claimed above.
Apparently, I'm not the one with the overactive imagination
Now, on to the match. Looking at the published stats here:
www.nrmp.org/2006advdata.pdf We see, that, just as I stated, only one ophtho program participated in the NRMP match. I was making a point by saying this, realizing it is not the only match out there. And even though the other matches exist, my point still remains: Many more optometrists are getting trained every year than Ophtho's, so by sheer chance that should tell you that more optometrists are probably going to be participating in research. There are about 450 ophtho residencies filled each year
http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin/resweb.nsf/L/51675E1C167DF70186256F8F0073A46C?OpenDocument. Meanwhile accodring to ASCO
http://www.opted.org/info_profile.cfm about 1300 optometry students graduate each year.
I can't verify the list myself, but CNU's list of accomplish O.D's is more than likely accurate. I'm guessing that he either knows or has met everyone one of those people he listed (Again, just guessing, I don't know that for a fact). But, either way I did a little research.
You can find information on Dr. Baitch here:
http://www.amvtlaser.com/about.cfm and if you actually take the time to look up more, you can see that his information is accurate about Dr. Baitch. If you take the time to research the others that he mentioned, you'll most likely find that he is correct about them.
Regarding optometric specialties refer to CNU's post. But for more information about OD research at many different web sites including this one:
http://www.opted.org/pdf/optCareerGuide.pdf
About the scope of practice debate from earlier: Are you actually naive and immature enough to believe that any M.D.'s can perform the same practices as any other MD to his own desire? That's so far from the truth, I don't know where to start. However, I can say, that from state to state, laws vary regarding scope of practice.
Going on, lets just use an example to prove original point: Imagine a Dermatologist who "knowing he has the same scope as any other MD" decides to perform Lasik surgery on one of his/her patients.
The surgery would most likely never occur for several reasons. A dermatologist isn't going to have access to the necessary equipt/tools to perform the operation without going through a ophtho. Sure he could buy the equip. but he wouldn't realistically be able to afford to do so.
If he managed to actually perform the surgery without the supervision or permission of an Ophthalmologist and was found out, you can bet that he'd most likely be sued for malpractice and would most likely be dropped from his insurance carrier, would see his future rates increase, would most likely have his priveledges at hospitals suspended, and his license would probably end up under review. Don't believe me, just try and talk your average dermatologist into doing eye surgery and if they don't laugh you out of the room at the thought, they'll definatly think you're medically challenged. Really you can talk to any realistic MD/DO and they'll agree with me.
Fun8stuff: I can legally go to the moon, but if I can't realistically go to the moon, then what's the point in bragging that I can. Even if you have the legal right to perform open heart surgery as an ophtholmologist, if you can't realistically do it, then what's the point in claiming you can?
One more thing: Having the last word and being rude doesn't make you right.