Difficulty of Undergrad vs Medical School

[deleted1108171]

Hello,


I am trying to get a gauge of the relative difficulty of medical school vs undergrad. How would HYP/Ivy compare to state school medical school difficulty? Thoughts?


Thanks again

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[Doctoscope]

A lot of med students describe the curriculum as "drinking from a fire hydrant" because of the sheer amount of material thrown at you. So I'd assume it's A LOT more comprehensive and difficult.

On a side note, why would it matter if the med school is a state school or a top 10 med school? The material is still difficult.

If anything, I would assume someone matriculating from a state undergrad school would have an easier time than someone from HYP, considering the rampant amount of grade inflation that goes on at private schools.

 

[Deltasidearm]

Med school is just different. It takes a lot more effort but is very individualized on how that goes. I went from studying maybe 2 hours/week in undergrad and scoring at the top of my class to studying maybe 25-30 hours/week (on top of required lectures and labs) and scoring low 90's on my exams as a M1. Some of my classmates study just as much and just hope to pass exams. Others I'm sure study less and score just as well if not better.

I didn't take most of the "recommended" courses but my classmates who did have said that the content is progressing ~3-5 times faster than their undergrad courses. For context, within 7 days we learned all of the muscles (innervation, origin, insertion, and action), major blood vessels, nerves, and some anatomy clinical correlations in the back, shoulder, axilla, arm, forearm, and hand on top of other lectures over things like respiratory and CV physiology and histology. It's a lot but you just do the work and get through it. It's doable but it really does require dedication and a different way of approaching learning (you can't just learn something to forget it the next day anymore).

 

[lanzhou_lamian]

Med school content generally isn’t much more inherently complicated than undergrad. It’s just that med school moves much faster and expects students to know the info at a more detailed level. What may have been covered in a month in undergrad might be covered in a week in a med school. Because of this pace, some undergrad study habits just won’t work anymore since they’re not time-efficient enough. Once you learn how to study effectively in med school though, it becomes a lot more manageable.

 

[deleted50541]

The medical school curriculum is just a different beast. It's an apples to oranges comparison in a lot of ways.

The material itself isn't necessarily difficult to understand. It's just A LOT of it that needs to be studied and processed in a relatively short time. Everyone will bring their strengths and weaknesses to their program in terms of studying skills and their understanding of the material.

For example, I came into medical school with a mathematics background and had a very deep understanding of some relatively complex and esoteric branches of math. But as a med student, I struggled with biochem and more advanced biology/genetics since I wasn't as familiar with some of the terminology and concepts.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

A friend at HMS told me that it was much easier but I think she was mainly referring to the reduced pressure associated with pass/fail grading. undergrads need to get mostly As to be competitive at top med schools. In my experience, the amount of pressure associated with trying to get As vs even A-/B+ In undergrad classes is 10x greater even with a mastery of course material

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

A lot of med students describe the curriculum as "drinking from a fire hydrant" because of the sheer amount of material thrown at you. So I'd assume it's A LOT more comprehensive and difficult.

On a side note, why would it matter if the med school is a state school or a top 10 med school? The material is still difficult.

If anything, I would assume someone matriculating from a state undergrad school would have an easier time than someone from HYP, considering the rampant amount of grade inflation that goes on at private schools.

Grade inflation at these schools is overstated imo. Yes they give out more As but labeling them as grade inflaters completely disregards that the student sample is made entirely of top students

 

[FluffyCat1212]

N=1 (and an MS1 at that), but I've found it to be fairly manageable so far. Our pre-clerkship curriculum is P/F, so that takes a lot of pressure off. Came from working full-time while doing a post-bacc (along with all the other premed stuff) and I can honestly say that my stress levels have been lower in med school.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

If anything, I would assume someone matriculating from a state undergrad school would have an easier time than someone from HYP, considering the rampant amount of grade inflation that goes on at private schools.

Well elite private schools have "grade inflation" because their students are the cream of the crop. Don't look at the higher grade average, look at the curve that's against Olympiad winners and HS valedictorians because that's what it feels like. Sometimes the cutoff for an A- was 80% because they have to make the exams very, very hard to set the gradient. You make it sound like you can just put anyone in those classes and they'd get the average grade. And you can see this difference because students from elite colleges have higher average MCAT scores.

To answer OP's question. Med school (at least the pre-clinical years) were not as conceptually hard as the abstract STEM classes I took in undergrad, but the volume of information is just outrageous. Unless you have a great memory or you're highly disciplined, it's gonna be a struggle like it was for me. Clinical years were a different kind of difficult.

 

[group_theory]

The best analogy that I have heard to describe medical school is the pancake analogy (not my idea, credit should go to whoever first came up with this)

As a medical student, you have to eat 5 pancakes a day. Now 5 pancakes is doable, and almost anyone can do it. But you have to eat 5 pancakes every day. And if you only eat 3, or 4 instead of 5, the "leftover" gets added to the next day's stack - so you will have to eat 6-7 pancakes the following day. Skip a day, and you will have 10 pancakes the next day to eat. Skip a few days in a row, then you are really behind, with a stack of pancakes to conquer.

When you start, you are eager, hungry, and devour the pancakes without problem. But with pancakes every day, and the need to keep up with the pancakes so you don't get overwhelmed, it slows you down, little by little, until it becomes a chore to get through the pancakes (but they are necessary, since you can't go to the next step without finishing all the pancakes, with the rewards being more pancakes per day

 

[UnlimitedTraction]

Coming from HYP institution going to a P/F state medical school, my experience in med school has been much much easier than college. You have a lot more time to focus your studies. After all, you're usually only taking just one class. The quality of student is lower in my med school than in college for sure.

 

[TheDataKing]

It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life tbh but that’s for a magnitude of reasons that aren’t just school based. You adjust, learn, and grow. It’s not easy, but if I can do it, anyone can.

 

[wholeheartedly]

The best analogy that I have heard to describe medical school is the pancake analogy (not my idea, credit should go to whoever first came up with this)

As a medical student, you have to eat 5 pancakes a day. Now 5 pancakes is doable, and almost anyone can do it. But you have to eat 5 pancakes every day. And if you only eat 3, or 4 instead of 5, the "leftover" gets added to the next day's stack - so you will have to eat 6-7 pancakes the following day. Skip a day, and you will have 10 pancakes the next day to eat. Skip a few days in a row, then you are really behind, with a stack of pancakes to conquer.

When you start, you are eager, hungry, and devour the pancakes without problem. But with pancakes every day, and the need to keep up with the pancakes so you don't get overwhelmed, it slows you down, little by little, until it becomes a chore to get through the pancakes (but they are necessary, since you can't go to the next step without finishing all the pancakes, with the rewards being more pancakes per day

It originated in this blog.

Med School Metaphor: Pancakes Every Morning

I have a lot to learn. By Friday, anyway. I have a Pharmacology exam followed by a Pathophysiology exam this coming Monday. Once again, I find myself behind. It’s the funny kind of behind whe…

rumorsweretrue.wordpress.com

 

[frosted2]

I'm a MS1 at a H/P/F school. I pass all of my classes and have a pretty nice life outside of school (work FT, see and talk to family every night). Material seems easier so far, but as everyone above me has said, it is the volume that is what is tough. Think an entire lecture dedicated to memorizing the AAs for undergrad is tough? Cool... try that topic only being a 2 minute part of a 1.5 hour lecture... times 3 for your other classes that also demand that level of detail.

I'd do med school a million times over again compared to undergrad though. 99% of the time, I actually care about what I am learning. It is very refreshing

 

[frosted2]

N=1 (and an MS1 at that), but I've found it to be fairly manageable so far. Our pre-clerkship curriculum is P/F, so that takes a lot of pressure off. Came from working full-time while doing a post-bacc (along with all the other premed stuff) and I can honestly say that my stress levels have been lower in med school.

Same!!!!!

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Depends on the person. Some people in my class (MS2) put in 50 hours a week in barely pass. Some people just study exam week and do better than them in spite of it. Probably a combination of efficiency and intelligence. I study more in medical school than I did for my biochemistry degree in college, but the difficulty of the average class is way way way easier in medical school. Using linear algebra and understanding physical chemistry is a lot harder than memorizing a nerves innervation.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Depends on the person. Some people in my class (MS2) put in 50 hours a week in barely pass. Some people just study exam week and do better than them in spite of it. Probably a combination of efficiency and intelligence.

Hm, I'm not sure if they necessarily did better because of raw intelligence--at least not the way most people define intelligence = problem solving and abstract critical thinking. (Some people would say memorization skills is a component of intelligence, but I personally think it's a minor one).

My guess is that those who study less and do better have more to do with efficiency (as you say), pure memorization skills/stamina, and past background. If this is your second time seeing the material (e.g. you majored in biochem or bio and have taken anatomy classes), yeah you're pretty much in a comfort zone compared to people seeing this for the first time.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Hm, I'm not sure if they necessarily did better because of raw intelligence--at least not the way most people define intelligence = problem solving and abstract critical thinking. (Some people would say memorization skills is a component of intelligence, but I personally think it's a minor one).

My guess is that those who study less and do better have more to do with efficiency (as you say), pure memorization skills/stamina, and past background. If this is your second time seeing the material (e.g. you majored in biochem or bio and have taken anatomy classes), yeah you're pretty much in a comfort zone compared to people seeing this for the first time.

True, I breezed through biochem because it was second nature after majoring.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Does it also depend on how many publications one need for residency?

 

[deleted1099686]

I wouldn't get intimated by the "firehose" analogy. It is a lot but it is certainly not as overwhelming as everyone makes it out to be. Just don't be one of those people who doesn't study all day and then tries to cram the weekend of test week. Finals week can be bad/very stressful if you're borderline passing. But overall, you can study and pass, get enough sleep, and have a social life as long as you aren't inept when it comes to time management.

 

[lanzhou_lamian]

Does it also depend on how many publications one need for residency?

I don't find that most of my classmates find their research as a primary source of stress (assuming their project is going well haha.) They just treat it as if it were an elective or extracurricular activity. For your average med student, balancing research and classes just requires time management. For people trying to match something hyper-competitive, that obviously may be different.

 

[throwaway01564]

A lot of med students describe the curriculum as "drinking from a fire hydrant" because of the sheer amount of material thrown at you. So I'd assume it's A LOT more comprehensive and difficult.

On a side note, why would it matter if the med school is a state school or a top 10 med school? The material is still difficult.

If anything, I would assume someone matriculating from a state undergrad school would have an easier time than someone from HYP, considering the rampant amount of grade inflation that goes on at private schools.

You are insane if you think the rigor of a state school matches HYP

 

[harvard_of_the_west]

You are insane if you think the rigor of a state school matches HYP

IDK dude...I mean at a certain point, medical school curriculum is pretty much the same all around. Just because I go to a state school doesn't mean that I have a poorer understanding of GPCRs, immunology, or opportunistic fungal infections than my buddy at UCSF. Especially with more institutions moving to P/F grading and ditching in-house exams for standardized CAS exams. In those that use CAS exams, I'd argue that it's the exact same rigor since we're all watching the same Boards and Beyond/Pathoma/Sketchy videos and literally taking the same tests. Are there differences? Absolutely. The top schools blow my school's research programs out of the water and have massive hospitals full of every sub-specailty under the sun. This translates into an advantage through connections and familiarity with home program directors. And I'd argue that for those who are gunning for the tip top programs/specialties that really value research, this is where the real difference is. But I'm still publishing 2 papers, just in slightly less shiny journals than my homie in SF did (who even reads Nature anyway??)

One could also make the argument that since I will train at a hospital with considerably less residents and fellows that I'll actually get to do way more procedures and be more advanced in the technical skills come years 3 and 4, compared to a student from a top school who would've had to fight residents and fellows for those same procedures.

Were you making this claim in relation to undergrad course rigor? I'd agree with you that a top college undergrad is tougher than my state school degree, but again, only to a point. I actually asked this same question about rigor at my cal-state school vs. Stanford to my gen chem professor who'd taught at both of those institutions. He assured me that due to a number of factors including grade inflation (never happened in my classes), his cal-state gen chem course was more rigorous than his Stanford course. Of course, N=1 but still...

 

[Doctoscope]

You are insane if you think the rigor of a state school matches HYP

You're right. HYP doesn't match the rigor of state schools like UCLA or Cal.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

IDK dude...I mean at a certain point, medical school curriculum is pretty much the same all around. Just because I go to a state school doesn't mean that I have a poorer understanding of GPCRs, immunology, or opportunistic fungal infections than my buddy at UCSF. Especially with more institutions moving to P/F grading and ditching in-house exams for standardized CAS exams. In those that use CAS exams, I'd argue that it's the exact same rigor since we're all watching the same Boards and Beyond/Pathoma/Sketchy videos and literally taking the same tests. Are there differences? Absolutely. The top schools blow my school's research programs out of the water and have massive hospitals full of every sub-specailty under the sun. This translates into an advantage through connections and familiarity with home program directors. And I'd argue that for those who are gunning for the tip top programs/specialties that really value research, this is where the real difference is. But I'm still publishing 2 papers, just in slightly less shiny journals than my homie in SF did (who even reads Nature anyway??)

One could also make the argument that since I will train at a hospital with considerably less residents and fellows that I'll actually get to do way more procedures and be more advanced in the technical skills come years 3 and 4, compared to a student from a top school who would've had to fight residents and fellows for those same procedures.

Were you making this claim in relation to undergrad course rigor? I'd agree with you that a top college undergrad is tougher than my state school degree, but again, only to a point. I actually asked this same question about rigor at my cal-state school vs. Stanford to my gen chem professor who'd taught at both of those institutions. He assured me that due to a number of factors including grade inflation (never happened in my classes), his cal-state gen chem course was more rigorous than his Stanford course. Of course, N=1 but still...

Relax, guys. This has become a state vs HYP(SM) debate, and it only started because people were yelling grade inflation and detracting from HYPSM students.

For the record, I believe they were talking about the undergrad level. At the med level, I hear HYS (and UCSF) are a lot chiller than most schools, in the clinical years as well. That could mean it's easier. Or it could also mean that the school trusts their students because their average step 1 scores destroy all state schools (except for schools like UVA and Michigan). Or it could be that the students are more academically inclined that they are less stressed by the curriculum.

In regards to the undergrad level, I hear UCLA and Berkely (and maybe a handful of other top state schools) might be the exception in that they are rigorous state schools. However, we'll never know how this compares to HYPSM schools (especially M and Caltech). Again, look at the incoming SAT scores and the exiting MCAT scores. Don't look at the curve, which is probably what people look at, because it's not standardized across schools. The reason the state schools like UCLA and Berkeley put an intense curve is that they want to distinguish the very best from the average because there's a big variation. And the reason they have a big variation is great, they serve the people of the state so they have a large student body and have to cater to the diverse backgrounds of the state. I'm a big fan of the mission of public institutions. But let's not detract from the rigor of elite private schools with rumors of grade inflation making it so anyone can do well.

Cal State is not one of the exceptions to this, and it's cute that your professor would tell you that lol, sorry. If we're talking about anecdotes, I know many, many people who went to cal state schools. It's an entirely different level than even UCLA and Berkeley, they're not making the classes harder than HYPSM or they'll fail almost all of the class.

 

[throwaway01564]

IDK dude...I mean at a certain point, medical school curriculum is pretty much the same all around. Just because I go to a state school doesn't mean that I have a poorer understanding of GPCRs, immunology, or opportunistic fungal infections than my buddy at UCSF. Especially with more institutions moving to P/F grading and ditching in-house exams for standardized CAS exams. In those that use CAS exams, I'd argue that it's the exact same rigor since we're all watching the same Boards and Beyond/Pathoma/Sketchy videos and literally taking the same tests. Are there differences? Absolutely. The top schools blow my school's research programs out of the water and have massive hospitals full of every sub-specailty under the sun. This translates into an advantage through connections and familiarity with home program directors. And I'd argue that for those who are gunning for the tip top programs/specialties that really value research, this is where the real difference is. But I'm still publishing 2 papers, just in slightly less shiny journals than my homie in SF did (who even reads Nature anyway??)

One could also make the argument that since I will train at a hospital with considerably less residents and fellows that I'll actually get to do way more procedures and be more advanced in the technical skills come years 3 and 4, compared to a student from a top school who would've had to fight residents and fellows for those same procedures.

Were you making this claim in relation to undergrad course rigor? I'd agree with you that a top college undergrad is tougher than my state school degree, but again, only to a point. I actually asked this same question about rigor at my cal-state school vs. Stanford to my gen chem professor who'd taught at both of those institutions. He assured me that due to a number of factors including grade inflation (never happened in my classes), his cal-state gen chem course was more rigorous than his Stanford course. Of course, N=1 but still...

I mean, of course I was talking about undergrad...is there a Princeton medical school?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Keep the thread on topic. The difficulty of different undergrads is not it.

 

[lumya]

There's a lot of material but it's more focused.

In undergrad, I would be tested on memorizing all of the enzymes and substrates of a specific pathway and then essentially be asked to regurgitate it accurately. There would be a dozen equations to memorize and sometimes I memorized over understanding for the sake of time.

In med school, there's a lot more material but you're more focused on how things tie together and clinical applications. As far as differences in med schools, I would probably guess that the pre-requisites that each school requires gives you more of a metric to compare what the starting point is than necessarily prestige. For example, I know some schools require physiology, anatomy, and biochemistry, something that my school didn't, and we're covering some basics right now, instead of diving into more advanced material.

 

[YCAGA]

It is harder but most decent schools have you taking one class at a time with a big exam every 2-6 weeks. So it is easier to stay focused on the goal. Also, to get into medical school you have to do a big list of EC's that don't really matter but take up time. Once you are in medical school, you basically just have to pass and you can match into FM/IM/peds and make a great salary.

Now, there are some schools that are either very behind the times (many DO schools from talking to friends) or schools that try way too hard to incorporate EVERYTHING from the first day of M1 (Kaiser does this and it looks absolutely miserable). Both types of schools have you taking 5-10 classes at once and running in 20 different directions every week. It is like in high school when you had teachers saying "oh well this class' homework should only take about an hour each night this week" but you had to take 8 classes at once.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

It is harder but most decent schools have you taking one class at a time with a big exam every 2-6 weeks. So it is easier to stay focused on the goal. Also, to get into medical school you have to do a big list of EC's that don't really matter but take up time. Once you are in medical school, you basically just have to pass and you can match into FM/IM/peds and make a great salary

I feel like this will be increasingly unlikely due to automation (see Epic’s slicer dicer algorithm) and midlevel independence

At the hospital system that I go to, the default provider for physicals/checkups is an NP/PA. This wasn’t true even five years ago.

 

[harvard_of_the_west]

I mean, of course I was talking about undergrad...is there a Princeton medical school?

My bad guys! I did not mean to derail this thread. I read the original post wrong--didn't realize it was comparing top undergrads to medical schools. But I'm glad everyone got to make and read some Sunday comics.

Back on topic: As many have said, medical school is just so different from undergrad. Just like how running a sub 2:30 marathon and bench pressing 300 lbs are both really difficult. It's just hard to compare the two to see which is tougher. But I'd imagine that students from top undergrads probably have an easier adjustment to the rigor of medical school, regardless of if it's a top program or not. I hope this answers your question better than my previous post did!

 

[deleted314957]

It depends entirely on what you did during your undergrad.
I thought all the sciences in med school were a repeat of my undergrad years except for gross anatomy which is easy rote memory. There is NOTHING esoteric or conceptually difficult in med school. There are no quantum mechanics and p.chem. There is a LOT of conceptually easy stuff to learn. Now, I guess, the curriculum has been padded by lots more touchy feely stuff and social studies than 45 years ago which i am sure consumes time but it is not difficult, as you have experienced difficult.

 

[deleted1108171]

I apologize for the vagueness. I meant the difficulty of HYP/similar UNDERGRAD in chem/bio vs a state/non-state medical school. Any thoughts? A certain HYP school already feels like drinking from a firehose so I am trying to get some relativity before I bite off more than I can chew applying to medical schools.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I apologize for the vagueness. I meant the difficulty of HYP/similar UNDERGRAD in chem/bio vs a state/non-state medical school. Any thoughts? A certain HYP school already feels like drinking from a firehose so I am trying to get some relativity before I bite off more than I can chew applying to medical schools.

I’ve heard there is less conceptual material on exams in med school than in undergrad. For example in chem at my school, exams were usually 5 questions, usually involving some derivation of an equation or something. In med school, it’s more likely that tests involve memorization.

 

[deleted314957]

I apologize for the vagueness. I meant the difficulty of HYP/similar UNDERGRAD in chem/bio vs a state/non-state medical school. Any thoughts? A certain HYP school already feels like drinking from a firehose so I am trying to get some relativity before I bite off more than I can chew applying to medical schools.

What is a HYP school?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

What is a HYP school?

Guessing Harvard, Yale, Princeton (or roughly equivalent)

 

[deleted314957]

The Michaelis-Menten enzyme kinetic curve at Princeton is the same one at Pocono.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The Michaelis-Menten enzyme kinetic curve at Princeton is the same one at Pocono.

Princeton has a terrible curve

 

[jhmmd]

Hello,


I am trying to get a gauge of the relative difficulty of medical school vs undergrad. How would HYP/Ivy compare to state school medical school difficulty? Thoughts?


Thanks again

tldr; if you have good study habits in undergrad that will carry you through medical school
Good luck

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Just wanna say that the responsibilities are piled on top of you starting day 1, and first two years its just academic, then the next two years in clinical on top of academics, then the decision making aspect with responsibilities that are added on top which is meant to make you independent when you are an attending.

 

[DigNewton]

Go in humble (e.g., don't assume Random State SOM is easier just because it's not famous), work hard, you'll likely be fine.

The material isn't any harder; sometimes it's easier. And if you go to a true P/F med school, that relieves some stress due to worrying about grades (although plenty of students who always got high grades at their elite undergrad institutions end up being worried about just passing their med school courses, and passing usually only means >= 70%).

For most people, I think med school ends up being harder than undergrad... but it's hard for different reasons. It's the volume of not-that-challenging material combined with everything else you have to juggle. It's great that there are HYP grads out there who think med school is a breeze. There are also state school grads who end up thinking med school is a breeze. But both are far more the exception than the rule. Med school is great at making previously "exceptional" students feel very average.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Let’s be honest…difficulty of medical school or perception thereof likely correlates with the speciality that one is trying to match. I would image a P/F STEP1 will amplify this. When there are no metrics to differentiate (both curriculum and standardized tests are P/F), those trying to get a top speciality will be even more anxious because they can’t measure their progress.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

For context, I'm in my first semester of medical school and I attended a top public institution for undergrad.

Our first block (cellular and molecular biology) covered topics I did in my Biochemistry, Molecular Biology, Organic Chemistry, and Genetics courses at a rate 3-5x faster over a period of 4 weeks. Did we get to every nuanced nook and cranny I hit in those courses in undergrad? No, but we did an incredible amount in a quarter of the time I did those courses.

You are expected to take in and learn quite a lot and build association between topics within a shortened period of time compared to undergrad. Is it impossible? No, but it it is a full time job with overtime. If you are responsible and professional and hold yourself accountable, you'll be fine. But there's absolutely no way to fall behind and cram and still ace exams like you might be able to do in undergrad. You have to always stay on pace, because the volume of material you are consuming requires you to understand the previous topics and continue to build on them., rather than fly through and think you'll be okay.

P.S: disregard the "tier" of medical school. I promise you we all put on our underwear the same way to sit at our desks to do our Anki cards and read our Netter's the same way.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Is it true that medical schools have to rank their students for residency applications? How are these rankings done?

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Is it true that medical schools have to rank their students for residency applications? How are these rankings done?

Depends on the school. My school ranks students by GPA, but only reveals what quartile a student is in (Top 25%, etc.), in addition to the obvious grades on the transcript of Honors/Pass/Fail. This is to inform residencies of the student's academic performance while limiting the stress/cutthroat mentality of needing to be x-high student in the rankings. This is for the first two years of preclinical sciences. Students are not ranked in rotations, but continue to receive Honors/Pass/Fail for their rotations.

edit: to elaborate, no, PDs aren't going to care if the school doesn't specify that you're 7th out of a class of 200. Depending on the competitiveness of the program though, it may be a non-starter if you're not in the top quartile of your class, etc.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Our school does the same as the above. When I wrote LORs, I would mention if a student is in the upper quartile, or top half. I believe this is helpful as programs want students who should pass boards easily.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Our school does the same as the above. When I wrote LORs, I would mention if a student is in the upper quartile, or top half. I believe this is helpful as programs want students who should pass boards easily.

What would be the relative difficulty of finishing top quartile compared to finishing in top 5-10% in undergrad?

 

[deleted314957]

What would be the relative difficulty of finishing top quartile compared to finishing in top 5-10% in undergrad?

Unanswerable question. Too many variables.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

What would be the relative difficulty of finishing top quartile compared to finishing in top 5-10% in undergrad?

I believe the top third at my DO school would be top half at any med school. I worked hard to graduate in the top half of my class. My wife, an MD went to class to socialize and graduated in the top 10% of her class. I think how much effort you put into undergrad to be successful will translate to your academic success in med school. If undergrad was difficult, graduating in the top quartile will be difficult too. My wife didn't work very hard in undergrad, but was Phi Beta Kappa. You get what I'm saying. Best to run your own race and not worry about others. If you are smart enough to get in to med school, you can graduate in the top quartile if that is your goal. It's just a matter of how hard you are willing to work.

 

[deleted314957]

I believe the top third at my DO school would be top half at any med school. I worked hard to graduate in the top half of my class. My wife, an MD went to class to socialize and graduated in the top 10% of her class. I think how much effort you put into undergrad to be successful will translate to your academic success in med school. If undergrad was difficult, graduating in the top quartile will be difficult too. My wife didn't work very hard in undergrad, but was Phi Beta Kappa. You get what I'm saying. Best to run your own race and not worry about others. If you are smart enough to get in to med school, you can graduate in the top quartile if that is your goal. It's just a matter of how hard you are willing to work.

Angus, can they just insert your comment into this thread about once a week? Amen to everything you said. I agree completely from my own experience of >45 years of being either a practitioner or keen observer of the field of medicine. AND, your last line should be in bold print.