Disadvantaged category???

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thekiterunner89

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I need help with this because I dont know how to fill this in my application.

I grew up in Pakistan, we lived in an urban area and have a house there which was not mortgaged when we bought it so we got to keep it.
My family business went broke and we lost everything- and i mean everything except the house. After that, My father slaved 10 hrs a day 6 days a week to make money to pay for 3 kids and a wife who was recovering from a terminal illness. My siblings And I couldn't even go to the doctor if we needed because we had no money. My fathers brother paid for our school education (there were no public schools im that city so we had to go to private school).
My mother started working when she recovered when I was 11 and i was forced to drop out of HS at 17 and work because there just wasn't enough money to buy food. My father lost his crappy job when i was 20, he sold his car to pay for my first yr of college until the bills piled up and i had to leave college and so did my younger sister so we could pay the bills. Dad got sick and his brother stopped helping so my younger sister and I paid for my youngest sibling to get thru HS.
At 23 i left pakistan and came to america- no money no papers and just worked and enrolled in state college to keep studying, gpa was very low 2.0 rose to 3.0 and again dropped. Now is 3.6.

For the finances: have no evidence of this because my parents are not us citizens and did not pay tax in the US so have no tax returns.

My gpa is rising now and i have my greencard, the situation is better but i still have 18 credits and a job. My grades sometimes suffer and i cant seem to get a 3.8-4.0 gpa no matter how hard I try because I can't stop working. I NEED to apply this cycle. At least i need to.
What can i do? Shall I give up on my dream? am I disadvantaged- economically? English isn't a problem-i speak really well and have been teaching it for years to pay the bills.

Do things like this need to be reported for DO and MD addmissions? A lot of people have told me only thoae with money get into schools even with low gpas, os that true? I'm not whining i just need advice and i need to know if i can get into medical school- ever...

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Hi. What I interpreted from your post.

1. You did not have access to healthcare a young child. This is a criteria for being disadvantaged.

2. You had to leave HS & College to support your family. That certainly sounds like a disadvantage.

Not to dismiss the rest of your experience, but the way I read it, until you were 17 your family owned its own home and you got a private school education. For many, those are rare luxuries. Also, not having a family owned business or having a father who works long hours does not necessitate a disadvantage.

Also, while you may *want* to apply now, you do not *need* to apply now. Those who get into MD and DO schools did so when they were ready, for some that is at 22, for others that is later. That includes having the finances, grades, etc, to have a successful application.
 
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I agree with the post above. Applying to med school can be expensive and you want to make sure you only have to do it once.
 
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To answer your question if you can get into medical school ever... obviously you could. My suggestion is to only apply when you are ready because you will dump a lot of money to apply. Secondly, you can continue to work and go to school. If you want to go to a DO school, retake classes, especially science classes, that you got a C in to increase your gpa.

Depending on your stats (gpa, MCAT, ECs) yeah go ahead and apply to this cycle since you said you need to apply this cycle. If your stats are below average just take time to improve your grades while working.
 
Disadvantaged status is meant to 1) identify applicants who may gotten off to a slow start in college due to poor preparation and 2) to identify applicants who are more likely than others to be willing to serve communities similar to the one in which they grew up (inner-city, rural, etc).

You are not obligated to self-identify as "disadvantaged". Clearly, the goal of most US medical schools would not be to train physicians to serve underserved areas of Pakistan. I'd suggest not self-identifying as disadvantaged. If anything, you were quite blessed to have your mother survive a terminal illness (by definition "terminal illness" means that it ends in death-- you may want to change that to life-threatening illness or serious illness) and to have an uncle who helped the family. You were successful enough to get to the US, get a green card and get to college.

Your birthplace, your parents' names, education and employment and how you paid for college is all listed even if you don't self-identify as "disadvantaged".
 
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Disadvantaged status is meant to 1) identify applicants who may gotten off to a slow start in college due to poor preparation and 2) to identify applicants who are more likely than others to be willing to serve communities similar to the one in which they grew up (inner-city, rural, etc).

You are not obligated to self-identify as "disadvantaged". Clearly, the goal of most US medical schools would not be to train physicians to serve underserved areas of Pakistan. I'd suggest not self-identifying as disadvantaged. If anything, you were quite blessed to have your mother survive a terminal illness (by definition "terminal illness" means that it ends in death-- you may want to change that to life-threatening illness or serious illness) and to have an uncle who helped the family. You were successful enough to get to the US, get a green card and get to college.

Your birthplace, your parents' names, education and employment and how you paid for college is all listed even if you don't self-identify as "disadvantaged".
I only ask that because i need to know how to explain: a) gaps in education b) reason why grades were seriously effected.
I was not successful- i sacrificed. The things I have done to stay here are not pretty and definitely not even possible to mention in any application. In order to prevent that I need to sugarcoat it, but that means not including that information which leaves questions about the gaps in education etc. it just seems like an endless circle to me.
Yea i was lucky in tbat sense, she had stage 4 cancer and survived after being given a few months to live.


Lastly, I don't think its understood here in this country but public schools and state run schools do not exist in third world countries- there is no such thing and its not a depiction of being advantaged :p
 
If you call working 10 hours a day 6 days a week "slaving" then I'd reconsider medicine.
 
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Anything that you did after high school graduation, in other words anything you did after arriving in the US including working or "volunteering" (if you don't want to say you were working illegally) can be listed on the application in terms of hours in the experience section. Some secondary applications will specifically ask you to explain any gap in your education that was longer than a few months. The disadvantage section is not the only place to tell your story.
 
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Anything that you did after high school graduation, in other words anything you did after arriving in the US including working or "volunteering" (if you don't want to say you were working illegally) can be listed on the application in terms of hours in the experience section. Some secondary applications will specifically ask you to explain any gap in your education that was longer than a few months. The disadvantage section is not the only place to tell your story.
You got it spot on. I don't want to say working cause well you get it. I have a question though. I worked at a certain place which had nothing to do with medicine or social work etc. and i was working 7 days a week 10hrs a day- so I didn't go to class etc for that semester but couldn't withdraw from those classes due to certain restrictions lets say. How would I translate that into volunteering? Its a stupid question but i just want to know how to do it all so I don't mess it up for myself
 
You got it spot on. I don't want to say working cause well you get it. I have a question though. I worked at a certain place which had nothing to do with medicine or social work etc. and i was working 7 days a week 10hrs a day- so I didn't go to class etc for that semester but couldn't withdraw from those classes due to certain restrictions lets say. How would I translate that into volunteering? Its a stupid question but i just want to know how to do it all so I don't mess it up for myself

You can list things as employment. Adcoms are not going to call ICE; many of them may not even know the rules about employment for international students or whatever. It may be a bigger positive to list that you were working than it is a negative to expose the fact that you were working "under the table".
 
Median annual income in your country is about $700/mo.

Thats what its supposed to be lol. I know for a fact there is no such thing as minimum wage though. Doesn't matter I'm here now i just had things influence my studies which I want to acknowledge rather than dismiss
 
Sorry for jacking your thread, OP.

Should I apply as disadvantaged?

I immigrated to the US at a young age and spent the majority of my childhood in a small apartment with my parents and grandparents. We worked low income jobs to pay for my tuition, and I am a first generation college student as a result. Financial and family reasons exacerbated the difficulty of my transition into college. I am doing better now, having completed my postbac with a 4.0. I felt it was a long and hard-fought road to get to where I am today, on the verge of applying to medical school in the US.
 
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Pakistan has also abolished child labor. And dictatorships. And a bunch of other stuff. Don't argue with me about Pakistan, unless you know something about Pakistan.
 
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Sorry for jacking your thread, OP.

Should I apply as disadvantaged?

I immigrated to the US at a young age and spent the majority of my childhood in a small apartment with my parents and grandparents. We worked low income jobs to pay for my tuition, and I am a first generation college student as a result. Financial and family reasons exacerbated the difficulty of my transition into college. I am doing better now, having completed my postbac with a 4.0. I felt it was a long and hard-fought road to get to where I am today, on the verge of applying to medical school in the US.

Did you mention this when applying? And if you don't mind me asking was your college cGPA affected by you having to work etc?
 
Sorry for jacking your thread, OP.

Should I apply as disadvantaged?

I immigrated to the US at a young age and spent the majority of my childhood in a small apartment with my parents and grandparents. We worked low income jobs to pay for my tuition, and I am a first generation college student as a result. Financial and family reasons exacerbated the difficulty of my transition into college. I am doing better now, having completed my postbac with a 4.0. I felt it was a long and hard-fought road to get to where I am today, on the verge of applying to medical school in the US.
Your place of birth is listed on the application. Your parents highest level of education is listed on the application. Your parents occupations are on the application. How you paid for college (what proportion was through parents money) is on the application. Your GPA including your post-bac 4.0 is on the application. Whatever jobs you held while in college can be listed on the application in the experience section.

What additional information do you think the disadvantaged section will provide to the adcom?
 
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Your place of birth is listed on the application. Your parents highest level of education is listed on the application. Your parents occupations are on the application. How you paid for college (what proportion was through parents money) is on the application. Your GPA including your post-bac 4.0 is on the application. Whatever jobs you held while in college can be listed on the application in the experience section.

What additional information do you think the disadvantaged section will provide to the adcom?
Then what the heck is the point of the disadvantaged section? It only applies to your childhood, yet almost all relevant factors are already asked about, don't duplicate the information?
I understand that there are some extenuating circumstances which aren't covered in the childhood section (ill parents, etc), but you are not asked 'do you consider yourself disadvantaged by some metric not already asked about', it simply asks whether you consider yourself disadvantaged.
You might feel disadvantaged because of some circumstance not covered by the application questions, and in that case the Disadvantaged essay is a godsend. But you also might feel disadvantaged because your parents made $5000/yr, you were on government assistance, you never got to go see the doctor, and you've been working since you were 12. By the above logic, the latter person should not check the Disadvantaged box. o_O
 
Then what the heck is the point of the disadvantaged section? It only applies to your childhood, yet almost all relevant factors are already asked about, don't duplicate the information?
I understand that there are some extenuating circumstances which aren't covered in the childhood section (ill parents, etc), but you are not asked 'do you consider yourself disadvantaged by some metric not already asked about', it simply asks whether you consider yourself disadvantaged.
You might feel disadvantaged because of some circumstance not covered by the application questions, and in that case the Disadvantaged essay is a godsend. But you also might feel disadvantaged because your parents made $5000/yr, you were on government assistance, you never got to go see the doctor, and you've been working since you were 12. By the above logic, the latter person should not check the Disadvantaged box. o_O

The situation you describe is not the situation I was responding to.

Anyone can self-identify as disadvantaged and make a case for why they believe they were disadvantaged. It is redundant and in some cases it doesn't bring more information to the table. If you don't mind that redundancy and want to highlight the fact that you feel disadvantaged, then go for it. On the other hand, sometimes not checking the box but providing the information about one's upbringing is seen as a positive: that one is not throwing a pity party or looking for an advantage that might be afforded those who check the box but really did come from difficult circumstances.
 
The situation you describe is not the situation I was responding to.

Anyone can self-identify as disadvantaged and make a case for why they believe they were disadvantaged. It is redundant and in some cases it doesn't bring more information to the table. If you don't mind that redundancy and want to highlight the fact that you feel disadvantaged, then go for it. On the other hand, sometimes not checking the box but providing the information about one's upbringing is seen as a positive: that one is not throwing a pity party or looking for an advantage that might be afforded those who check the box but really did come from difficult circumstances.
Is this really the general consensus? AMCAS states if you are being assisted by federal aid programs you are to list yourself as disadvantaged. What would you say to that? If on food stamps and medicaid, does that make any difference?
 
Your place of birth is listed on the application. Your parents highest level of education is listed on the application. Your parents occupations are on the application. How you paid for college (what proportion was through parents money) is on the application. Your GPA including your post-bac 4.0 is on the application. Whatever jobs you held while in college can be listed on the application in the experience section.

What additional information do you think the disadvantaged section will provide to the adcom?

Well, I had some issues as an undergrad due in part to a family member falling ill. This affected my undergrad performance for various reasons as did the fact that I was working. This, of course, was all exacerbated by my disadvantage as a first generation college student. Perhaps this particular factor ought to be mentioned in the Disadvantaged section. I'm not going to put it in my PS, and it seems like they've done away with the "additional info" essay box this year. So, perhaps I will include my family issues in the disadvantaged box, since my socioeconomic status already shows I am disadvantaged. I'll take it as an opportunity to tell a more detailed picture of my life.
 
Is this really the general consensus? AMCAS states if you are being assisted by federal aid programs you are to list yourself as disadvantaged. What would you say to that? If on food stamps and medicaid, does that make any difference?

Where do you see that? Looking on page 31 of the instruction manual for 2016, I see,

"You will then be asked if you wish to be considered a disadvantaged applicant by your designated medical schools. You might consider yourself disadvantaged if you grew up in an area that was medically underserved or had insufficient accesss to State and Federal Assistance programs. Click Yes to be considered a disadvantaged applicant. You will be given an additional 1,325 characters to explain why you believe you should be considered a disadvantaged applicant."
Read the instructions. "if you wish" "you might consider yourself..." I don't interprete that to mean "you are to list yourself" as if it is a requirement.
 
Where do you see that? Looking on page 31 of the instruction manual for 2016, I see,

"You will then be asked if you wish to be considered a disadvantaged applicant by your designated medical schools. You might consider yourself disadvantaged if you grew up in an area that was medically underserved or had insufficient accesss to State and Federal Assistance programs. Click Yes to be considered a disadvantaged applicant. You will be given an additional 1,325 characters to explain why you believe you should be considered a disadvantaged applicant."
Read the instructions. "if you wish" "you might consider yourself..." I don't interprete that to mean "you are to list yourself" as if it is a requirement.

I was basing it off this article: http://www.usnews.com/education/blo...t-it-means-to-be-a-disadvantaged-md-applicant

I guess the question is how often at times do adcom members actually take a look at financial income, parents education? Is it not needed to explicitly to tell them?
 
Where do you see that? Looking on page 31 of the instruction manual for 2016, I see,

"You will then be asked if you wish to be considered a disadvantaged applicant by your designated medical schools. You might consider yourself disadvantaged if you grew up in an area that was medically underserved or had insufficient accesss to State and Federal Assistance programs. Click Yes to be considered a disadvantaged applicant. You will be given an additional 1,325 characters to explain why you believe you should be considered a disadvantaged applicant."
Read the instructions. "if you wish" "you might consider yourself..." I don't interprete that to mean "you are to list yourself" as if it is a requirement.

But you have said it yourself that the vast majority of the people who apply to medical school are the children of lawyers, doctors, bankers, engineers, other professionals, etc. I see the disadvantaged essay as a means to communicate a humble recognition of your status as a socioeconomic minority. Sure, the various other sections on the app do allow you to note your parents education, jobs, and how much aid you received. However, the disadvantaged essay is your chance to synthesize a more personal expression of these #s. It is the human aspect to the #'s game.
 
But you have said it yourself that the vast majority of the people who apply to medical school are the children of lawyers, doctors, bankers, engineers, other professionals, etc. I see the disadvantaged essay as a means to communicate a humble recognition of your status as a socioeconomic minority. Sure, the various other sections on the app do allow you to note your parents education, jobs, and how much aid you received. However, the disadvantaged essay is your chance to synthesize a more personal expression of these #s. It is the human aspect to the #'s game.
Go for it then but don't blame me if it bites you in the butt.
 
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I was basing it off this article: http://www.usnews.com/education/blo...t-it-means-to-be-a-disadvantaged-md-applicant

I guess the question is how often at times do adcom members actually take a look at financial income, parents education? Is it not needed to explicitly to tell them?

The information is all there on the page. It is usually all on the same page of the application or on contiguous pages. As has been mentioned, about 20% of the time, these disadvantaged essays raise eyebrows -- not in a good way.

Also, I strongly urge you to use the manual over some blog piece written by a guy who got into medical school.
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/182162/data/amcas_instruction_manual.pdf
 
The situation you describe is not the situation I was responding to.

Anyone can self-identify as disadvantaged and make a case for why they believe they were disadvantaged. It is redundant and in some cases it doesn't bring more information to the table. If you don't mind that redundancy and want to highlight the fact that you feel disadvantaged, then go for it. On the other hand, sometimes not checking the box but providing the information about one's upbringing is seen as a positive: that one is not throwing a pity party or looking for an advantage that might be afforded those who check the box but really did come from difficult circumstances.
Go for it then but don't blame me if it bites you in the butt.
I find this attitude (which seems to be a common one among the adcoms here) troubling, to be perfectly honest.
It's basically "We are looking to gain a diversity of experiences and backgrounds, but only if you don't rub it in our faces."
Let's take this approach on the entire application: "We'd like to see volunteering, but just mention it tangentially in your PS or other activities, don't tell us about it...that looks like you're bragging or box-checking."

No. Just no.
Being honest about your background is not looking for a gorram pity party. If adcoms can't see the 'Disadvantaged' box checked without jumping into pity party mode, then they really DO need some frakking SE diversity in the field.

Right now, the box is a clusterf...there is something clearly wrong in a system where the 'ideal' outcome is someone who qualifies to check it but doesn't.
 
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I find this attitude (which seems to be a common one among the adcoms here) troubling, to be perfectly honest.
It's basically "We are looking to gain a diversity of experiences and backgrounds, but only if you don't rub it in our faces."
Let's take this approach on the entire application: "We'd like to see volunteering, but just mention it tangentially in your PS or other activities, don't tell us about it...that looks like you're bragging or box-checking."

No. Just no.
Being honest about your background is not looking for a gorram pity party. If adcoms can't see the 'Disadvantaged' box checked without jumping into pity party mode, then they really DO need some frakking SE diversity in the field.

Right now, the box is a clusterf...there is something clearly wrong in a system where the 'ideal' outcome is someone who qualifies to check it but doesn't.

Years ago, only those who checked the box could complete the questions about having used government services, worked to support a household before age 18, etc. Now you can answer those questions without checking the box so the only advantage to checking the box is to get the 1300+ characters to describe why you believe you were disadvantaged. Furthermore, AMCAS has standardized everything by assigning E1 and E2 to applicants from lower SES according to a specific algorithm so applications can be tagged and sorted in that way , if an adcom wants to do that.

As pointed out, some applicants have no business checking the box but do, to their detriment. On the other hand, I have seen the children of professionals (MD, JD) check the box and use it to describe a parent who was permanently disabled due to illness or trauma and not earning what one would expect of a professional. Without checking the box, what was on the application (father's graduation from medical school, and "retired") would not the whole picture. If there is important information for the box then great but don't repeat what is already on the application under family situation.

I guess I'm overly cautious because my urging someone I know IRL to check the box may have cost the applicant admission at a top choice. Applicant was first generation American,first generation to attend college, didn't speak English at home, but parents owned a small family-run business in their neighborhood. Yeah, maybe they do need some diversity on the adcom. I know how hard it is to grow up in those circumstances but I could not convince my colleagues. (I didn't have a vote because I knew the applicant.)
 
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Years ago, only those who checked the box could complete the questions about having used government services, worked to support a household before age 18, etc. Now you can answer those questions without checking the box so the only advantage to checking the box is to get the 1300+ characters to describe why you believe you were disadvantaged. Furthermore, AMCAS has standardized everything by assigning E1 and E2 to applicants from lower SES according to a specific algorithm so applications can be tagged and sorted in that way , if an adcom wants to do that.
I'm presuming this is based on the provided childhood household income, since I don't recall giving them any other information on SES?
As pointed out, some applicants have no business checking the box but do, to their detriment.
I am perfectly fine with them getting dinged for it. It's a place to screen for those who might have a valuable extra perspective. If it also manages to serve as a screen for those who have no perspective, well...bonus!
On the other hand, I have seen the children of professionals (MD, JD) check the box and use it to describe a parent who was permanently disabled due to illness or trauma and not earning what one would expect of a professional. Without checking the box, what was on the application (father's graduation from medical school, and "retired") would not the whole picture. If there is important information for the box then great but don't repeat what is already on the application under family situation.
The contradictions in my childhood info box would probably raise some eyebrows on their own...my primary parent has a terminal degree, but the income level listed for childhood is the lowest bracket in the list (they didn't have that degree, nor the 2 preceding it, when I was born). Is this something that would be more detrimental as an unanswered seeming contradiction, or a pity party? Gah!
I guess I'm overly cautious because my urging someone I know IRL to check the box may have cost the applicant admission at a top choice. Applicant was first generation American,first generation to attend college, didn't speak English at home, but parents owned a small family-run business in their neighborhood. Yeah, maybe they do need some diversity on the adcom. I know how hard it is to grow up in those circumstances but I could not convince my colleagues. (I didn't have a vote because I knew the applicant.)
That is a horrible story. That must be really, really frustrating.
Thank you for sharing it, though...it really provides some valuable insight into the process (and, I think, some of its flaws). I think it sums up my frustrations with the box. To me, it is beginning to feel like "put down your shortcomings so we can judge you for them," but is listed as an opportunity to gain some understanding for your background and/or to recognize the value of a different perspective. :shrug: Well, the rest of the application is straightforward, guess there had to be one mystery box.
 
How AMCAS figures out your EO (education-occupation) classification:

The AMCAS SES indicator, as developed and tested, is derived from a combination of applicants’ parental education and occupation information, as follows: Eight broad AMCAS parental education categories are aggregated into four categories: no college degree, bachelor’s degree, master’s degree, and a doctorate or professional degree. See Appendix B. Sixty-seven AMCAS occupational categories are aggregated into two categories: executive, managerial, and professional; and service, clerical, skilled and unskilled labor. These AMCAS occupational categories, as well as their aggregation, are based on the federal Standard Occupational Classification (SOC) scheme (http://www.bls.gov/soc/major_groups.htm). See Appendix C. An Education-Occupation (EO) indicator is then used to concurrently express these two pieces of information. Based on the four categories of parental education and two categories of parental occupation, the EO matrix consists of five ordered groups, as illustrated by Figure 1. The lowest SES group is EO-1 and the highest is EO-5. Determination of an EO indicator is based upon having both education and occupation information for at least one parent. When an applicant has complete information for two or more parents, the EO indicator for that applicant is based on the highest value among all parents. An applicant’s EO indicator cannot be determined when either parental education or occupation information is incomplete.

https://www.aamc.org/download/330166/data/seseffectivepractices.pdf
 
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If you grew up with a parent who had little education and they achieved their highest level of education when you were growing up such that you grew up in poverty, then it might be beneficial.

I do recall someone who had a parent who was an Ivy League professor who checked the disadvantaged box because he was born and raised for the first 5 year in graduate student housing before the parent earned a PhD and got a faculty position. I think he had to play with broken crayons and wear hand-me-downs. It was a tragic situation. (/sarcasm)
 
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I'm using this section to explain some things adcoms can't see, or isn't readily available to them. I essentially dropped out of high school for 16 months and this derailed my education and delayed my university admission. Beyond that I'm giving the relevant socioeconomic (single mother, immigrant from communist country with no skills, language, money etc.) and familial circumstances (absent father, had to work to relieve some financial strain and save for school etc.) that cost me this time. This way I can focus my PS on who I am and why medicine rather than writing 2 pages of pity party prose. I think that's the value of the essay, it gives them insight without stealing characters from your PS.

My only worry is, my marks in undergrad didn't suffer because of this, I turned things around and didn't look back. Here in Canada we have a "explain away your crappy grades" essay so I'm hoping this isn't the American equivalent...
 
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How AMCAS figures out your EO (education-occupation) classification:

The AMCAS SES indicator, as developed and tested, is derived from a combination of applicants’ parental education and occupation information, as follows: Eight broad AMCAS parental education categories are aggregated into four categories: no college degree, bachelor’s degree, master’s degree, and a doctorate or professional degree. See Appendix B. Sixty-seven AMCAS occupational categories are aggregated into two categories: executive, managerial, and professional; and service, clerical, skilled and unskilled labor. These AMCAS occupational categories, as well as their aggregation, are based on the federal Standard Occupational Classification (SOC) scheme (http://www.bls.gov/soc/major_groups.htm). See Appendix C. An Education-Occupation (EO) indicator is then used to concurrently express these two pieces of information. Based on the four categories of parental education and two categories of parental occupation, the EO matrix consists of five ordered groups, as illustrated by Figure 1. The lowest SES group is EO-1 and the highest is EO-5. Determination of an EO indicator is based upon having both education and occupation information for at least one parent. When an applicant has complete information for two or more parents, the EO indicator for that applicant is based on the highest value among all parents. An applicant’s EO indicator cannot be determined when either parental education or occupation information is incomplete.

https://www.aamc.org/download/330166/data/seseffectivepractices.pdf
That completely ignores income level, though...wouldn't income level seem to be an important indicator of SES? Especially since the app asks for income level during the majority of childhood, whereas the education/occupation is just 'highest level at any point'?

Arghh. Sorry, you're giving incredibly helpful answers, they just happen to be illuminating rather frustrating policies.
 
That completely ignores income level, though...wouldn't income level seem to be an important indicator of SES? Especially since the app asks for income level during the majority of childhood, whereas the education/occupation is just 'highest level at any point'?

Arghh. Sorry, you're giving incredibly helpful answers, they just happen to be illuminating rather frustrating policies.

Income is there but EO-1 and EO-2 are ways of classifying outside of income. Keep in mind that some HS graduates make high wages in some industries (building trades, precision factory work, etc) but still produce children who are first generation college students.

I guess the assumption is that you had at least one parent with a high education level and a high level job, then your family has a good income. If your parent(s) have a low level of education and a low level job(s), then the assumption is that your family did not have much money. I suppose that if there is a discrepancy such that your parent had a high level of education and a high level job but you grew up poor because 1) your parent didn't graduate from med school until you were in HS or 2) your parent had a chronic condition that precluded full-time (or any) employment, or 3) there were extenuating circumstances like a disabled sibling who required a lot or resources or a natural disaster that displaced your family for several years, then it might make sense to self-identify as "disadvantaged" to be better able to explain the situation that created the hardship.
 
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How AMCAS figures out your EO (education-occupation) classification:

The AMCAS SES indicator, as developed and tested, is derived from a combination of applicants’ parental education and occupation information, as follows: Eight broad AMCAS parental education categories are aggregated into four categories: no college degree, bachelor’s degree, master’s degree, and a doctorate or professional degree. See Appendix B. Sixty-seven AMCAS occupational categories are aggregated into two categories: executive, managerial, and professional; and service, clerical, skilled and unskilled labor. These AMCAS occupational categories, as well as their aggregation, are based on the federal Standard Occupational Classification (SOC) scheme (http://www.bls.gov/soc/major_groups.htm). See Appendix C. An Education-Occupation (EO) indicator is then used to concurrently express these two pieces of information. Based on the four categories of parental education and two categories of parental occupation, the EO matrix consists of five ordered groups, as illustrated by Figure 1. The lowest SES group is EO-1 and the highest is EO-5. Determination of an EO indicator is based upon having both education and occupation information for at least one parent. When an applicant has complete information for two or more parents, the EO indicator for that applicant is based on the highest value among all parents. An applicant’s EO indicator cannot be determined when either parental education or occupation information is incomplete.

https://www.aamc.org/download/330166/data/seseffectivepractices.pdf

@LizzyM
Now I'm somewhat confused. What category are you supposed to put an unemployed and/or disabled parent in? I originally put them under "other," but that pdf implies that would preclude an EO-1 or EO-2 status.
 
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Income is there but EO-1 and EO-2 are ways of classifying outside of income. Keep in mind that some HS graduates make high wages in some industries (building trades, precision factory work, etc) but still produce children who are first generation college students.

I guess the assumption is that you had at least one parent with a high education level and a high level job, then your family has a good income. If your parent(s) have a low level of education and a low level job(s), then the assumption is that your family did not have much money. I suppose that if there is a discrepancy such that your parent had a high level of education and a high level job but you grew up poor because 1) your parent didn't graduate from med school until you were in HS or 2) your parent had a chronic condition that precluded full-time (or any) employment, or 3) there were extenuating circumstances like a disabled sibling who required a lot or resources or a natural disaster that displaced your family for several years, then it might make sense to self-identify as "disadvantaged" to be better able to explain the situation that created the hardship.
Yeah, I suppose I can't really expect an entry for "starting at 'HS education/food stamps' level, every 4-6 years, my mother obtained a new degree and therefore a drastically different job and income." :laugh:

As I said, at the moment I've got doctorate degree listed alongside <$25,000 annual household income during childhood, which may seem incongruous without any explanation. Yet the more I read SDN, the more concerned I am about the consequences of clicking the disadvantaged button.
 
Yeah, I suppose I can't really expect an entry for "starting at 'HS education/food stamps' level, every 4-6 years, my mother obtained a new degree and therefore a drastically different job and income." :laugh:

As I said, at the moment I've got doctorate degree listed alongside <$25,000 annual household income during childhood, which may seem incongruous without any explanation. Yet the more I read SDN, the more concerned I am about the consequences of clicking the disadvantaged button.

If you think that you were behind other college students because of your childhood disadvantage, or if your childhood situation caused you to delay college, or if you had medical issues BECAUSE you were in an underserved area, then go ahead and explain. If you think that the $25K income and a parent with a PhD will raise eyebrows, (it might) then let someone ask about it or address it in a secondary essay about challenges or whatever.
 
If you think that you were behind other college students because of your childhood disadvantage, or if your childhood situation caused you to delay college, or if you had medical issues BECAUSE you were in an underserved area, then go ahead and explain. If you think that the $25K income and a parent with a PhD will raise eyebrows, (it might) then let someone ask about it or address it in a secondary essay about challenges or whatever.
As I said in some other disadvantaged threads:

I don't want to seem disingenuous...I had the academic resources I needed in high school, and I did very well in my studies at that point. However, there are definitely other disadvantages that can come from growing up below the poverty line which can impede progress into a field which is predominantly seen as the domain of the wealthy and/or privileged.

and

There are many ways in which growing up low SE or underserved can put you at a disadvantage in pursuing medicine other than directly hindering your academic capabilities. There's lack of exposure to the field, the difficulty of overcoming the cultural expectations about what careers are available to you and your peers, the culture shock and feelings of being an outsider when you start down a path primarily populated by the very privileged, etc.


I don't think that I will choose the 'Disadvantaged' box...it's too damned risky and full of pitfalls. But I should be able to.
Maybe someday, when they finally have the diversity they're supposed to be aiming for with this classification, and therefore no longer need it...then there will be people with the perspectives to be able to evaluate it in a meaningful way so that it's useful. Or, you know, would be useful, if they still needed it.
 
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@LizzyM
Now I'm somewhat confused. What category are you supposed to put an unemployed and/or disabled parent in? I originally put them under "other," but that pdf implies that would preclude an EO-1 or EO-2 status.

You can list them under their occupation before they became unemployed or disabled.
 
You can list them under their occupation before they became unemployed or disabled.
Then there are some who never managed to pull a steady job...is unemployed not an option in AMCAS? I think I went 'unknown', but I'm not sure if that was because the other wasn't a choice or just because it's been a few years and I was giving benefit of the doubt.
 
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Then there are some who never managed to pull a steady job...is unemployed not an option in AMCAS? I think I went 'unknown', but I'm not sure if that was because the other wasn't a choice or just because it's been a few years and I was giving benefit of the doubt.
I don't know the categories available but I think retail, unskilled laborer, and some other categories might fit for someone who had a job at one time. I seem to recall that "homemaker" might also be an option.
 
I don't know the categories available but I think retail, unskilled laborer, and some other categories might fit for someone who had a job at one time. I seem to recall that "homemaker" might also be an option.
AMCAS grossly overestimates humanity, then! :laugh:
 
Then there are some who never managed to pull a steady job...is unemployed not an option in AMCAS? I think I went 'unknown', but I'm not sure if that was because the other wasn't a choice or just because it's been a few years and I was giving benefit of the doubt.

There's a "not applicable" option which I thought was supposed to mean unemployed.
 
I was not economically disadvantaged but I checked it off because I didn't go to high school. AMCAS doesn't even have a way of designating that. You have to put a high school graduation date. That alone was enough of a reason for me to do it. I felt I had to clarify that the information I was being forced to put in the application was incorrect. The entire statement was one or two sentences just clarifying that. I hope that's not looked at negatively.
 
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