Discharge Update

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HighPriest

Specialized in diseases of the head holes
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I had planned on writing this at 1 year out, but just didn't get around to it. Then Homonculus wrote his, and now I'm motivated again.

BLUF is that there were good and bad things about my time in service. I ultimately wouldn't have done it again, but at the same time I did get some things out of it that I certainly could not have experienced without the military. The thing that bothers me the most, honestly, is that I don't feel like I really contributed anything to military medicine. Sure, I worked as a doc, but as a result of my location I'm basically the unofficial ENT doc for a naval hospital now but without all of the hassle. So service for me was just wearing a uniform and dealing with a lot of other headaches. I never deployed, which is part of it I think.

I got my first choice of specialty out of med school. Second choice in training location. Glad I trained where I did, all things considered. I felt like my training was fairly good. We were utterly dependent on outside rotations, however. It would not have been possible to train up to code without them. My lifestyle was actually pretty good as a resident. I applied for fellowship, and I was qualified, but this was denied by the military. Ultimately I'm not upset about that either, and I'm happy as a "general" sub-specialist.

When I ranked my first duty station things got a bit worse. I actually got an RFO for my first choice. Orders were starting to come out, and my wife and I had leave planned to go look for a house. I was on vacation when I got a condolence text from one of the docs at said station indicating that she was sorry to hear I wasn't going there after all. That was the first I had heard of it. My consultant had pulled the orders, and rerouted my to the taint of America. Ostensibly this was because the assistant to the surgeon general had demanded that he send someone there. That ultimately ended up being half-true. This was an MTF that was on the chopping block for downgrade to a superclinic. They had been fighting this tooth and nail for literal years. The guy who was there had managed to actually be busy, and so the hospital command had requested that they actually grow the department. Now, I say he was busy and he was, but with the most basic bread-and-butter stuff you can imagine. Nothing remotely complex. Not enough to maintain a skillset - not even close. Plus, he wasn't sending anything to the community (unless it simply couldn't be supported). So I don't know why they thought they needed extra boots. I have to assume that they were either not paying attention at all, or that they were but they didn't care because this would make them look busy and make them a harder target to knock down. I later found out that someone else was actually slated to go there, but he knew the consultant on a more personal level than I did. So he was sent to a very cush billet (that wasn't even available when I ranked) and I was sent to BFE. He and I had the same amount of seniority, mind you. So the idea that "someone had to go" was true, but the idea that it had to be me was entirely political. Without going in to too much detail, that consultant had a chip on his shoulder for essentially anyone connected with our residency, and he took every opportunity available to show it.

So that was disappointing. When I got there, I was actually very busy. Not at first, because as I said we really didn't need two people. Ultimately I ended up being one of the most productive ENTs in the DoD. They actually gave me an award for that. Which is great. But it was all very, very basic stuff. I didn't do a neck dissection in 2 years. I think I did one parotid. Despite having some ludicrous number of births on post every year, I don't think I saw a single pediatric neck mass (which is either a statistical anomaly, or they were finding their way out to the network without my approval). I absolutely had to moonlight to keep my skills up, and even that was hard.

The command there was unbelievable hostile. I recall having the hospital commander actually come to pull me out of the OR to do a UA. I had 13 UAs in 9 months. They would call at 0300 and tell you to show up at 0600, and unlike any other MTF I had ever worked at you had to stay until you went - even if you had patients waiting. So when I had to take a case to the OR from the ER, I chose to help the patient rather than show up and pee in a cup for the millionth time, and the top dog in the facility came in to yell at me. She actually told me at first to leave the OR and to to the UA, which I refused. I had a patient sleeping. I was actually operating when she told me this.
They were always extremely worried that they were going to be shut down. This caused undue pressure in many cases. I'm sure it caused due pressure in others. For me, it was never a boon. I had a 12 year old girl with a cholesteatoma extending into her middle cranial fossa. I sent her to the "local" (2.5 hours away) children's hospital for treatment because she needed a neurosurgeon and an ICU. The next day, DCCS was in my office. Without asking me any details, he told me that if I wasn't going to do ear cases, maybe they would revoke my credentials to do ears. Keep in mind that I sent about 1 patient/month to the network, saw 25/day, and did ear cases regularly. He just got it up in his panties that he didn't like this case. So he threatened me. In a way that would show up on my record essentially forever (have you ever had your credentials suspended or revoked...) Ultimately I was able to talk him off the ledge, but the fact is I should never have had to do so in the first place. And this guy was a surgeon (OBGYN). They actually DID pull the credentials of two other providers for similar issues, so it wasn't an idle threat. Just terrorism.

I had an MSC officer in the command suite flat out tell us (CC: all providers) to withhold certain information from a visiting senatorial committee, and to flat out lie if asked certain questions directly. This had to do with trying to make the hospital look better, and hopefully garner support to keep it from being downgraded. I actually saved that e-mail just in case, because there was no way I was going to do that. And this wasn't some kind of subjective thing she was asking me to punt on.

This was a 12 bed hospital. It was staffed typically by one internist. Usually a civilian who had absolutely no desire to be there, but sometimes a uniformed doc from the clinics. The census was usually 1-2 patients, usually ortho, usually healthy. The hospital commander at one point decided that they needed to expand those services. Again, this was primarily to prevent closure (prove worth). But I wasn't against the concept in principle. The problem was her idea was to make one room an "e-ICU." See, we had a ventilator that the hospital had bought about 10 years ago. So she would buy a telemedicine suite and pay a stipend to the local university pulmonologist who could just stream in when needed. This would then let us manage ICU patients on a vent. No plans to hire or billet an actual critical care specialist. The primary doc would be this 75 year old, work-opposed internist. She actually got $800,000 from the DoD to make this happen. As far as I know it never did, thank God. She asked me directly what additional services I could provide the hospital if this was in place, and I told her none. For starters: e-ICUs have been tested in situations where a community hospital already has an ICU already staffed by at least internists with experience in the ICU and nursing staff with ICU experience who just don't have a CC specialist. The idea is that the telemedicine box can be used in a pinch, or to help decide if the patient needs to be transported to a higher level of care. You can't just buy a view screen on a cart and start handling vent patients. Secondly, the internists had no desire AT ALL to do this. So yes, they would be "primary," but ultimately they're just going to call me for any problem they have. it was insane and dangerously negligent to even consider.

They actually had been awarded $400,000,000 to build a brand new hospital two years before the DoD then decided to turn them in to a superclinic. But because the hammer never actually fell, they build the new facility. It was supposed to be completed before I ever got there, and by the time I left THE ARMY it was still empty. I think they're in it now. I was told that at one point they had to delay moving in because the building had set vacant for so long that it developed a serious mold problem and had to be remodeled in certain areas.

They required a peer review for every single tonsil bleed that I had. They considered it a potentially compensable event (PCE). Meaning that I had to write a report and have it reviewed by an outside ENT every time it happened. In case you aren't aware, posttonsil bleeds occur in anywhere between 5-13% of all tonsillectomy patients (which is why they are often the bane of ENT call). My rate was 2.3% when I left. At one point I had another ENT reviewer ask me why in the hell he keeps getting these...

I had codes called on TWO kids in the OR, both during emergence from anesthesia. One was an ear tube, the other was an ear tube and adenoid (short anesthesia, completely healthy kids). In both cases it was ultimately determined that the CRNA over-sedated and then wasn't prepared to deal with the consequences (bradycardia in both). That had never happened to me before, and hasn't happened since - not even once. I realize that it CAN, but it happened TWICE in 1 year at the same facility.

Leave was regularly denied if it was felt that it would result in less clinic time. I was the only doc my last 1.5 years, so ALL leave would effect clinic time. Yet I was pulled out of clinic for field training every year, and we had regular, sporadic but weekly meetings during clinic time that were mandatory.

The list does go on. Believe it or not this is truncated.


During this time the military had decided not to support CME of any kind. So that was all out-of-pocket.

In any case, ultimately our consultant changed. The new consultant asked me if I thought ENT was needed where I was (up inside Satan's @$$hole), and I told him I was very busy, but it was very difficult to maintain my skills. He ended up PCSing me after 2 years. I went to a much larger facility. There were still issues, but certainly far fewer. The biggest one was that our facility couldn't admit pediatric patients - at all. Which was insane because the pediatricians actually wanted to provide inpatient services, and we wanted to admit them too, but (and I kid you not) the nurses didn't want to learn PALs, and their command supported them. So we didn't admit kids. Period. Its insane. Skill rot was still an issue at the second post, but much less of one. We had a VA who allowed their patients to be seen, and we had ERSAs with local hospitals, and those things together provided for at least a modicum of complex cases....just not peds cases...

I have since left. Things are 1,000,000x better. I make 3-4x what I did in the military. I see more patients, but it actually feels like I'm doing less work because i have SUPPORT. If I ask someone to do something (like an MA) they do it. They don't get pissy. They don't argue. They don't disappear for 45 minutes. In fact, I think I had a little PTSD when I first got out because I was in the habit of just doing absolutely everything on my own (from taking vitals to rooming patients) because for the 9 years I was in the military you just couldn't trust that anyone would do it. I mean, they would. Clearly patients got admitted and roomed. But it was so slow and so inefficient and came with so many strings attached, you couldn't trust it. I don't even consider it anymore. My credentialing office does legwork. They just call me to sign things. I don't do online training. At all. The OR WANTS you to do cases. It's mind boggling. I call and they're happy to get the business. No one gives me $#!t for making them stay past 3pm. if I ask someone in my office to do something, no one ever tells me that it isn't in their job description. They don't just NOT do it and wait for me to ask them again. They don't get their union rep involved. If they don't know how to do something, they take the initiative to find out. (I certainly had enlisted soldiers who would do these things, but very few GS employees) I can go on vacation any time. I only have to tell them I'm going. No paperwork, no SERE training to go to (*&king Japan - I just go. I don't even think about moonlighting. I see a huge breadth of cases, and it ultimately boils down to what I want to do. People treat you with respect. The general gestalt is that they actually want to do what it takes to keep you working.

I met a lot of great people in the military. I don't regret that at all. I'm still very good friends with a lot of them. That is quite literally the only reason I would even hesitate to say that I wouldn't do HPSP again. Of course, had I not done it, I have to assume I would have met great people somewhere else. But maybe not as many. There are a lot of good people in the service. I loved treating soldiers. It was a privilege and an honor to do it. Again, the issue is that I'm treating service members now. I just don't have all of the baggage. I'm sure there's more I could post. Happy to expand or elaborate if needed.

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Great post. Good for you, thanks for your service, and glad things continue to go well with your practice.
 
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One of the other great episodes at my first duty station:

I saw a kid referred from a local oral surgeon. There's this camp of dentists and oral surgeons out there who get CT scans on literally everyone who sees them, and then provide a "detailed analysis" where they look at airway diameter, etc. I get referrals for this all of the time "hey, the dentist told me my airway is narrow and I needed to come and see you ASAP." Ultimately, I haven't noticed much correlation between a cone-beam CT finding of soft tissue airway narrowing and any real issues. If they have symptoms of OSA, I send them for a polysomnogram. Most of the time they're totally asymptomatic. Most of the patients I send for PSG dont' have OSA (unless they have symptoms of OSA on history), and the ones that do usually do well with CPAP...meaning they really didn't need a CT to begin with. You can just take a history...But the CTs net them a lot of money out of pocket.

In any case: This kid is told that he has a narrow airway and big tonsils. He does. They're moderately large. So I see him, take a detailed history. He has essentially no symptoms of OSA. None. No issues with tonsillitis. Really, just a kid with big tonsils. So I suggested a polysomnogram and observation at night. Parents are happy with this.

A month goes by (takes a while to get a PSG) and DCCS shows up at my office. He was told by the local dentist that I wasn't treating patients appropriately because the parents came back to see him and told him that I wasn't planning on taking the tonsils out right away. He felt like I had somehow insulted his honor as an oral surgeon. He lived next door to the DCCS, and went to complain. What I think is that he told the parents they needed the tonsils out, and he was angry I didn't just do it because it made him look bad. I don't know why. He doesn't take out tonsils.

In any case, the DCCS immediately took his side, and straight up asked me why I wasn't willing to treat patients. Again, I probably did 10-12 tonsillectomies per week at that facility, so....

I told him that I treat patients based upon history, available data, and my training, not solely upon the recommendations of an oral surgeon, and that if the oral surgeon wants the kids tonsils out, he can take them out. I also mentioned that they had a follow up with me after his PSG, and if he would prefer we could just see what that shows.

The kid did not have OSA, btw.
 
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Things are so backwards in military medicine.

The common adage in the civilian world is that training sucks and after that you go on to the promised land of milk and honey. In the military, it's totally opposite.

During military training, you're working hard but you're learning a ton, doing interesting cases, hanging out with your friends at work, and feeling like you're positively impacting people. All the while you're making cash money that's going straight into the portfolio since you have no medical school debt.

After training you get shipped off to lonely Ft. Elsewhere, where you're going to see nothing but low-level cases that could probably be handled at the primary care level. Your pay might actually decrease because you're almost certainly in a less desirable part of the country with lower BAH. You have more headaches and you begin to realize just how protected from it all you were in a trainee status. You're probably the only doc in your field with the exception of a civilian who is decades older than you. It's isolating, and meanwhile all the cool skills you learned in training rapidly deteriorate.

I 100% agree with you that the comradery and the people you meet are the only reasons to do military medicine.
 
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The other thing I would add in, as kind of a silver lining sort of thing:

despite how much of a $#!tshow my first duty station was, it could have been a LOT worse. Some of the other docs had a much, much harder time due to the way the command suite handled...well, everything.
I learned very quickly that in the military, the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease. If it's just squeaky, they're just as likely to kick it as they are to grease it. If it works hard (the analogy breaks down here), then it gets greased.

What I mean is that for the most part I was able to keep my head down, work hard, and stay under the radar during one of the routine command $#!tstorms. I was a very functional part of the MTF, so they only let the bull into my china shop when they wanted to shake up the whole hospital. I was, without question, able to say and do things that I could not have said or done had I just sat on my hands and moaned the whole time. They knew I wasn't happy. They knew I wanted out ASAP. But I worked my @$$ off and that made them look good, so they were willing to deal with a little $#!t on my part. That's why I could tell the DCCS to F off (not using those terms) when he came knocking. Otherwise I really believe he would have nailed me to the wall. I saw him do it to other docs. I can think of two occasions where they wanted me to do a 10 day field training with the line, and I told them I'd love to but I'll have to cancel my already booked patients and surgeries. In both cases they let me off the hook.

I don't mean to contradict the situation I portrayed above. It really, really sucked at that duty station. But it could have been far, far worse (perhaps even damaging to my long term career) if I had been a slug.
 
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Fort Riley. Fort Bliss.
 
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Fort Riley. Fort Bliss.
You probably know who I am. Fortunately, I am well past being concerned about that.

Interesting thing about Bliss which you may appreciate as well:

They had an oral pathologist (dentist) doing all of our path. Like, not just our oral path - anything that came from our department. So she was reading our thyroid stuff, salivary stuff (which may have been at least somewhat appropriate, but I'm talking metastatic high grade mucoepidermoid specimens from a neck), skin cancers...
She was, needless to say, feeling extremely overwhelmed. I recall I had one patient who had a renal transplant like 20 years prior who presented with about six different skin cancers on his scalp. I took off four with margins and it took 6-8 weeks to get all of the results back. If I send eight margins to a pathologist now, it's unusual to not have results in 2 days. A week if they're really struggling.
 
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^^path is definitely one of the areas that I’ve noticed a difference since leaving the .mil. So many inconclusive biopsies/FNA sent out before that now are positive 48 hours after submission. It’s night and day from my MTF.
 
I had planned on writing this at 1 year out, but just didn't get around to it. Then Homonculus wrote his, and now I'm motivated again.

BLUF is that there were good and bad things about my time in service. I ultimately wouldn't have done it again, but at the same time I did get some things out of it that I certainly could not have experienced without the military. The thing that bothers me the most, honestly, is that I don't feel like I really contributed anything to military medicine. Sure, I worked as a doc, but as a result of my location I'm basically the unofficial ENT doc for a naval hospital now but without all of the hassle. So service for me was just wearing a uniform and dealing with a lot of other headaches. I never deployed, which is part of it I think.

I got my first choice of specialty out of med school. Second choice in training location. Glad I trained where I did, all things considered. I felt like my training was fairly good. We were utterly dependent on outside rotations, however. It would not have been possible to train up to code without them. My lifestyle was actually pretty good as a resident. I applied for fellowship, and I was qualified, but this was denied by the military. Ultimately I'm not upset about that either, and I'm happy as a "general" sub-specialist.

When I ranked my first duty station things got a bit worse. I actually got an RFO for my first choice. Orders were starting to come out, and my wife and I had leave planned to go look for a house. I was on vacation when I got a condolence text from one of the docs at said station indicating that she was sorry to hear I wasn't going there after all. That was the first I had heard of it. My consultant had pulled the orders, and rerouted my to the taint of America. Ostensibly this was because the assistant to the surgeon general had demanded that he send someone there. That ultimately ended up being half-true. This was an MTF that was on the chopping block for downgrade to a superclinic. They had been fighting this tooth and nail for literal years. The guy who was there had managed to actually be busy, and so the hospital command had requested that they actually grow the department. Now, I say he was busy and he was, but with the most basic bread-and-butter stuff you can imagine. Nothing remotely complex. Not enough to maintain a skillset - not even close. Plus, he wasn't sending anything to the community (unless it simply couldn't be supported). So I don't know why they thought they needed extra boots. I have to assume that they were either not paying attention at all, or that they were but they didn't care because this would make them look busy and make them a harder target to knock down. I later found out that someone else was actually slated to go there, but he knew the consultant on a more personal level than I did. So he was sent to a very cush billet (that wasn't even available when I ranked) and I was sent to BFE. He and I had the same amount of seniority, mind you. So the idea that "someone had to go" was true, but the idea that it had to be me was entirely political. Without going in to too much detail, that consultant had a chip on his shoulder for essentially anyone connected with our residency, and he took every opportunity available to show it.

So that was disappointing. When I got there, I was actually very busy. Not at first, because as I said we really didn't need two people. Ultimately I ended up being one of the most productive ENTs in the DoD. They actually gave me an award for that. Which is great. But it was all very, very basic stuff. I didn't do a neck dissection in 2 years. I think I did one parotid. Despite having some ludicrous number of births on post every year, I don't think I saw a single pediatric neck mass (which is either a statistical anomaly, or they were finding their way out to the network without my approval). I absolutely had to moonlight to keep my skills up, and even that was hard.

The command there was unbelievable hostile. I recall having the hospital commander actually come to pull me out of the OR to do a UA. I had 13 UAs in 9 months. They would call at 0300 and tell you to show up at 0600, and unlike any other MTF I had ever worked at you had to stay until you went - even if you had patients waiting. So when I had to take a case to the OR from the ER, I chose to help the patient rather than show up and pee in a cup for the millionth time, and the top dog in the facility came in to yell at me. She actually told me at first to leave the OR and to to the UA, which I refused. I had a patient sleeping. I was actually operating when she told me this.
They were always extremely worried that they were going to be shut down. This caused undue pressure in many cases. I'm sure it caused due pressure in others. For me, it was never a boon. I had a 12 year old girl with a cholesteatoma extending into her middle cranial fossa. I sent her to the "local" (2.5 hours away) children's hospital for treatment because she needed a neurosurgeon and an ICU. The next day, DCCS was in my office. Without asking me any details, he told me that if I wasn't going to do ear cases, maybe they would revoke my credentials to do ears. Keep in mind that I sent about 1 patient/month to the network, saw 25/day, and did ear cases regularly. He just got it up in his panties that he didn't like this case. So he threatened me. In a way that would show up on my record essentially forever (have you ever had your credentials suspended or revoked...) Ultimately I was able to talk him off the ledge, but the fact is I should never have had to do so in the first place. And this guy was a surgeon (OBGYN). They actually DID pull the credentials of two other providers for similar issues, so it wasn't an idle threat. Just terrorism.

I had an MSC officer in the command suite flat out tell us (CC: all providers) to withhold certain information from a visiting senatorial committee, and to flat out lie if asked certain questions directly. This had to do with trying to make the hospital look better, and hopefully garner support to keep it from being downgraded. I actually saved that e-mail just in case, because there was no way I was going to do that. And this wasn't some kind of subjective thing she was asking me to punt on.

This was a 12 bed hospital. It was staffed typically by one internist. Usually a civilian who had absolutely no desire to be there, but sometimes a uniformed doc from the clinics. The census was usually 1-2 patients, usually ortho, usually healthy. The hospital commander at one point decided that they needed to expand those services. Again, this was primarily to prevent closure (prove worth). But I wasn't against the concept in principle. The problem was her idea was to make one room an "e-ICU." See, we had a ventilator that the hospital had bought about 10 years ago. So she would buy a telemedicine suite and pay a stipend to the local university pulmonologist who could just stream in when needed. This would then let us manage ICU patients on a vent. No plans to hire or billet an actual critical care specialist. The primary doc would be this 75 year old, work-opposed internist. She actually got $800,000 from the DoD to make this happen. As far as I know it never did, thank God. She asked me directly what additional services I could provide the hospital if this was in place, and I told her none. For starters: e-ICUs have been tested in situations where a community hospital already has an ICU already staffed by at least internists with experience in the ICU and nursing staff with ICU experience who just don't have a CC specialist. The idea is that the telemedicine box can be used in a pinch, or to help decide if the patient needs to be transported to a higher level of care. You can't just buy a view screen on a cart and start handling vent patients. Secondly, the internists had no desire AT ALL to do this. So yes, they would be "primary," but ultimately they're just going to call me for any problem they have. it was insane and dangerously negligent to even consider.

They actually had been awarded $400,000,000 to build a brand new hospital two years before the DoD then decided to turn them in to a superclinic. But because the hammer never actually fell, they build the new facility. It was supposed to be completed before I ever got there, and by the time I left THE ARMY it was still empty. I think they're in it now. I was told that at one point they had to delay moving in because the building had set vacant for so long that it developed a serious mold problem and had to be remodeled in certain areas.

They required a peer review for every single tonsil bleed that I had. They considered it a potentially compensable event (PCE). Meaning that I had to write a report and have it reviewed by an outside ENT every time it happened. In case you aren't aware, posttonsil bleeds occur in anywhere between 5-13% of all tonsillectomy patients (which is why they are often the bane of ENT call). My rate was 2.3% when I left. At one point I had another ENT reviewer ask me why in the hell he keeps getting these...

I had codes called on TWO kids in the OR, both during emergence from anesthesia. One was an ear tube, the other was an ear tube and adenoid (short anesthesia, completely healthy kids). In both cases it was ultimately determined that the CRNA over-sedated and then wasn't prepared to deal with the consequences (bradycardia in both). That had never happened to me before, and hasn't happened since - not even once. I realize that it CAN, but it happened TWICE in 1 year at the same facility.

Leave was regularly denied if it was felt that it would result in less clinic time. I was the only doc my last 1.5 years, so ALL leave would effect clinic time. Yet I was pulled out of clinic for field training every year, and we had regular, sporadic but weekly meetings during clinic time that were mandatory.

The list does go on. Believe it or not this is truncated.


During this time the military had decided not to support CME of any kind. So that was all out-of-pocket.

In any case, ultimately our consultant changed. The new consultant asked me if I thought ENT was needed where I was (up inside Satan's @$$hole), and I told him I was very busy, but it was very difficult to maintain my skills. He ended up PCSing me after 2 years. I went to a much larger facility. There were still issues, but certainly far fewer. The biggest one was that our facility couldn't admit pediatric patients - at all. Which was insane because the pediatricians actually wanted to provide inpatient services, and we wanted to admit them too, but (and I kid you not) the nurses didn't want to learn PALs, and their command supported them. So we didn't admit kids. Period. Its insane. Skill rot was still an issue at the second post, but much less of one. We had a VA who allowed their patients to be seen, and we had ERSAs with local hospitals, and those things together provided for at least a modicum of complex cases....just not peds cases...

I have since left. Things are 1,000,000x better. I make 3-4x what I did in the military. I see more patients, but it actually feels like I'm doing less work because i have SUPPORT. If I ask someone to do something (like an MA) they do it. They don't get pissy. They don't argue. They don't disappear for 45 minutes. In fact, I think I had a little PTSD when I first got out because I was in the habit of just doing absolutely everything on my own (from taking vitals to rooming patients) because for the 9 years I was in the military you just couldn't trust that anyone would do it. I mean, they would. Clearly patients got admitted and roomed. But it was so slow and so inefficient and came with so many strings attached, you couldn't trust it. I don't even consider it anymore. My credentialing office does legwork. They just call me to sign things. I don't do online training. At all. The OR WANTS you to do cases. It's mind boggling. I call and they're happy to get the business. No one gives me $#!t for making them stay past 3pm. if I ask someone in my office to do something, no one ever tells me that it isn't in their job description. They don't just NOT do it and wait for me to ask them again. They don't get their union rep involved. If they don't know how to do something, they take the initiative to find out. (I certainly had enlisted soldiers who would do these things, but very few GS employees) I can go on vacation any time. I only have to tell them I'm going. No paperwork, no SERE training to go to (*&king Japan - I just go. I don't even think about moonlighting. I see a huge breadth of cases, and it ultimately boils down to what I want to do. People treat you with respect. The general gestalt is that they actually want to do what it takes to keep you working.

I met a lot of great people in the military. I don't regret that at all. I'm still very good friends with a lot of them. That is quite literally the only reason I would even hesitate to say that I wouldn't do HPSP again. Of course, had I not done it, I have to assume I would have met great people somewhere else. But maybe not as many. There are a lot of good people in the service. I loved treating soldiers. It was a privilege and an honor to do it. Again, the issue is that I'm treating service members now. I just don't have all of the baggage. I'm sure there's more I could post. Happy to expand or elaborate if needed.

Well said.

I look back at the time I was on active duty (now over 5 years) and wonder how I ever dealt with the mountain of BS. The military was definitely not for me.
 
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You probably know who I am.
Perhaps, but I'm not a doxxer.

As is discussed by the OP (and has been discussed ad nauseum on this board in other posts) is how critical that first duty station is for consolidating knowledge out of residency and becoming a physician, and I consistently see residents weight the wrong things in that calculus. How close is it to home/the beach/my favorite microbrewery. Residents need to be paying attention to institutional culture, volume, complexity, mentorship, etc.

There are places (granted they are few IMO) where development as a physician can happen and one can do good things as a part of a team helping SMs, retirees, and their families, and there are places that are the equivalent of "The Tree of Woe" and do serious harm to the development of young physicians. Granularity on the different MEDDACs for the young physicians who come to this board is important so they can make the adult decision to try for the geographic locale that offers them the best chance for development, even if it's not a location they particularly want to inhabit.

P.S. I always found it hilarious that Hedwig moved to Junction City, KS in Hedwig and the Angry Inch. I'm not sure if there is a more searing indictment of a military base town.
 
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P.S. I always found it hilarious that Hedwig moved to Junction City, KS in Hedwig and the Angry Inch. I'm not sure if there is a more searing indictment of a military base town.
If you've ever been there, it actually makes perfect sense.
 
Of course knowing what to value presumes you have any say in your first duty station.
which I did not. But I think his point is still valid. If you can choose between the place closest to home or the place that's further away but at which you can build on what you learned in residency, choose the latter. The caveat is that the Army finds it hilariously entertaining to just nail you in a very uncomfortable place whenever they feel like it.
 
I had been considering HPSP since I started undergrad and although I knew few drawbacks to military medicine, I didn’t realize there were much more issues that others have experienced. Granted, I only know two doctors that went the military route (Army internal medicine and Navy trauma) who both said they enjoyed their time in service. The Army doctor actually ended up doing a 20+ year career. I was curious if anyone that did Air Force or Navy medicine had similar experiences (GMO or non-GMO route) or if they had a different experience than what I’ve read on your post and the other similar one. If anyone can link any similar stories, I would really appreciate but I will also search more on SDN later now that I have some time. Initially, I was interested solely in Army HPSP but since then, I’ve opened up to Navy, Air Force and National Guard options. Thank you and the other person for posting yall’s experiences.
 
They had an oral pathologist (dentist) doing all of our path.
Is such a person qualified? Seems like no, but I'm not familiar with what dental pathologists can do.

If not, why did she agree to read the specimens? Stuff can be sent out. If ever I'm asked to do something outside of my scope of practice, I say no. It's only happened a couple times in my career, but I said no and that was the end of it.
 
Is such a person qualified? Seems like no, but I'm not familiar with what dental pathologists can do.

If not, why did she agree to read the specimens? Stuff can be sent out. If ever I'm asked to do something outside of my scope of practice, I say no. It's only happened a couple times in my career, but I said no and that was the end of it.
These are all excellent questions, and I had asked them myself.

They're definitely qualified to read oral, dental, and embryological specimens (from the oral cavity). I would say that in many cases they're better than an MD pathologist for many of these things.

I don't know enough about their training to know how far out of left field it is for them to read a thyroid or cutaneous specimen. I want to say "way out in left field," but I honestly can't say with absolute certainty. What I can tell you is that she was always a nervous wreck, and she always took 5x too long to get us results, so I equated that with her being out of her element. Maybe she was just a nervous person.

She was an O-5, so it would seem like she could have said no. But she was also dental, not medical, but working in a medical department. I don't know what kind of support she got. They always said that they were understaffed, so they needed her to do more. Not that this justifies asking someone to do something they're not qualified to do. All I have are rumors. One was that she could either work as a general pathologist in the path department, or be a general dentist, but not an oral pathologist. So she chose the bad option.
We asked repeatedly to have an MD pathologist read our non-oral specimens, and every now and then they would capitulate, but it was usually a bit of a fight. What I thought was insane is that they would often have to over-read the work she did. Meaning that they weren't actually saving time, but rather wasting it. So maybe she wanted to do this? I can't say.


incidentally, one of the other things that happened at my first duty station was that they asked me to peer review the ophthalmologists. Our department was EENT (eyes, ears, nose, and throat) because apparently we were still working at the turn of the 19th century when one would specialize in all of those things, and before Optho and ENT split into different specialties. They wanted me to review cases, and comment on whether or not standard of care was met. You know, peer review. When I protested that I couldn't do that because I have no idea what standard of care is for ophtho. I was told that all the ENT docs before me would just sign off on it, and that's what they expected me to do.

I had to fight that pretty hard to get it removed from my plate. They ended up giving it to an optometrist....I find it hard to believe that he knew what standard of care is, but that's on him.
 
I had been considering HPSP since I started undergrad

There are posts going back 20 years on this website debating military medicine. The short answer is “it isn’t for everyone” and unless you are prior military or have a great deal of experience with the military life (parents in the military) I would not recommend it.
 
Haha this sounds like Fort Riley to me, being stationed there definitely convinced me to get out
 
I had planned on writing this at 1 year out, but just didn't get around to it. Then Homonculus wrote his, and now I'm motivated again.

BLUF is that there were good and bad things about my time in service. I ultimately wouldn't have done it again, but at the same time I did get some things out of it that I certainly could not have experienced without the military. The thing that bothers me the most, honestly, is that I don't feel like I really contributed anything to military medicine. Sure, I worked as a doc, but as a result of my location I'm basically the unofficial ENT doc for a naval hospital now but without all of the hassle. So service for me was just wearing a uniform and dealing with a lot of other headaches. I never deployed, which is part of it I think.

I got my first choice of specialty out of med school. Second choice in training location. Glad I trained where I did, all things considered. I felt like my training was fairly good. We were utterly dependent on outside rotations, however. It would not have been possible to train up to code without them. My lifestyle was actually pretty good as a resident. I applied for fellowship, and I was qualified, but this was denied by the military. Ultimately I'm not upset about that either, and I'm happy as a "general" sub-specialist.

When I ranked my first duty station things got a bit worse. I actually got an RFO for my first choice. Orders were starting to come out, and my wife and I had leave planned to go look for a house. I was on vacation when I got a condolence text from one of the docs at said station indicating that she was sorry to hear I wasn't going there after all. That was the first I had heard of it. My consultant had pulled the orders, and rerouted my to the taint of America. Ostensibly this was because the assistant to the surgeon general had demanded that he send someone there. That ultimately ended up being half-true. This was an MTF that was on the chopping block for downgrade to a superclinic. They had been fighting this tooth and nail for literal years. The guy who was there had managed to actually be busy, and so the hospital command had requested that they actually grow the department. Now, I say he was busy and he was, but with the most basic bread-and-butter stuff you can imagine. Nothing remotely complex. Not enough to maintain a skillset - not even close. Plus, he wasn't sending anything to the community (unless it simply couldn't be supported). So I don't know why they thought they needed extra boots. I have to assume that they were either not paying attention at all, or that they were but they didn't care because this would make them look busy and make them a harder target to knock down. I later found out that someone else was actually slated to go there, but he knew the consultant on a more personal level than I did. So he was sent to a very cush billet (that wasn't even available when I ranked) and I was sent to BFE. He and I had the same amount of seniority, mind you. So the idea that "someone had to go" was true, but the idea that it had to be me was entirely political. Without going in to too much detail, that consultant had a chip on his shoulder for essentially anyone connected with our residency, and he took every opportunity available to show it.

So that was disappointing. When I got there, I was actually very busy. Not at first, because as I said we really didn't need two people. Ultimately I ended up being one of the most productive ENTs in the DoD. They actually gave me an award for that. Which is great. But it was all very, very basic stuff. I didn't do a neck dissection in 2 years. I think I did one parotid. Despite having some ludicrous number of births on post every year, I don't think I saw a single pediatric neck mass (which is either a statistical anomaly, or they were finding their way out to the network without my approval). I absolutely had to moonlight to keep my skills up, and even that was hard.

The command there was unbelievable hostile. I recall having the hospital commander actually come to pull me out of the OR to do a UA. I had 13 UAs in 9 months. They would call at 0300 and tell you to show up at 0600, and unlike any other MTF I had ever worked at you had to stay until you went - even if you had patients waiting. So when I had to take a case to the OR from the ER, I chose to help the patient rather than show up and pee in a cup for the millionth time, and the top dog in the facility came in to yell at me. She actually told me at first to leave the OR and to to the UA, which I refused. I had a patient sleeping. I was actually operating when she told me this.
They were always extremely worried that they were going to be shut down. This caused undue pressure in many cases. I'm sure it caused due pressure in others. For me, it was never a boon. I had a 12 year old girl with a cholesteatoma extending into her middle cranial fossa. I sent her to the "local" (2.5 hours away) children's hospital for treatment because she needed a neurosurgeon and an ICU. The next day, DCCS was in my office. Without asking me any details, he told me that if I wasn't going to do ear cases, maybe they would revoke my credentials to do ears. Keep in mind that I sent about 1 patient/month to the network, saw 25/day, and did ear cases regularly. He just got it up in his panties that he didn't like this case. So he threatened me. In a way that would show up on my record essentially forever (have you ever had your credentials suspended or revoked...) Ultimately I was able to talk him off the ledge, but the fact is I should never have had to do so in the first place. And this guy was a surgeon (OBGYN). They actually DID pull the credentials of two other providers for similar issues, so it wasn't an idle threat. Just terrorism.

I had an MSC officer in the command suite flat out tell us (CC: all providers) to withhold certain information from a visiting senatorial committee, and to flat out lie if asked certain questions directly. This had to do with trying to make the hospital look better, and hopefully garner support to keep it from being downgraded. I actually saved that e-mail just in case, because there was no way I was going to do that. And this wasn't some kind of subjective thing she was asking me to punt on.

This was a 12 bed hospital. It was staffed typically by one internist. Usually a civilian who had absolutely no desire to be there, but sometimes a uniformed doc from the clinics. The census was usually 1-2 patients, usually ortho, usually healthy. The hospital commander at one point decided that they needed to expand those services. Again, this was primarily to prevent closure (prove worth). But I wasn't against the concept in principle. The problem was her idea was to make one room an "e-ICU." See, we had a ventilator that the hospital had bought about 10 years ago. So she would buy a telemedicine suite and pay a stipend to the local university pulmonologist who could just stream in when needed. This would then let us manage ICU patients on a vent. No plans to hire or billet an actual critical care specialist. The primary doc would be this 75 year old, work-opposed internist. She actually got $800,000 from the DoD to make this happen. As far as I know it never did, thank God. She asked me directly what additional services I could provide the hospital if this was in place, and I told her none. For starters: e-ICUs have been tested in situations where a community hospital already has an ICU already staffed by at least internists with experience in the ICU and nursing staff with ICU experience who just don't have a CC specialist. The idea is that the telemedicine box can be used in a pinch, or to help decide if the patient needs to be transported to a higher level of care. You can't just buy a view screen on a cart and start handling vent patients. Secondly, the internists had no desire AT ALL to do this. So yes, they would be "primary," but ultimately they're just going to call me for any problem they have. it was insane and dangerously negligent to even consider.

They actually had been awarded $400,000,000 to build a brand new hospital two years before the DoD then decided to turn them in to a superclinic. But because the hammer never actually fell, they build the new facility. It was supposed to be completed before I ever got there, and by the time I left THE ARMY it was still empty. I think they're in it now. I was told that at one point they had to delay moving in because the building had set vacant for so long that it developed a serious mold problem and had to be remodeled in certain areas.

They required a peer review for every single tonsil bleed that I had. They considered it a potentially compensable event (PCE). Meaning that I had to write a report and have it reviewed by an outside ENT every time it happened. In case you aren't aware, posttonsil bleeds occur in anywhere between 5-13% of all tonsillectomy patients (which is why they are often the bane of ENT call). My rate was 2.3% when I left. At one point I had another ENT reviewer ask me why in the hell he keeps getting these...

I had codes called on TWO kids in the OR, both during emergence from anesthesia. One was an ear tube, the other was an ear tube and adenoid (short anesthesia, completely healthy kids). In both cases it was ultimately determined that the CRNA over-sedated and then wasn't prepared to deal with the consequences (bradycardia in both). That had never happened to me before, and hasn't happened since - not even once. I realize that it CAN, but it happened TWICE in 1 year at the same facility.

Leave was regularly denied if it was felt that it would result in less clinic time. I was the only doc my last 1.5 years, so ALL leave would effect clinic time. Yet I was pulled out of clinic for field training every year, and we had regular, sporadic but weekly meetings during clinic time that were mandatory.

The list does go on. Believe it or not this is truncated.


During this time the military had decided not to support CME of any kind. So that was all out-of-pocket.

In any case, ultimately our consultant changed. The new consultant asked me if I thought ENT was needed where I was (up inside Satan's @$$hole), and I told him I was very busy, but it was very difficult to maintain my skills. He ended up PCSing me after 2 years. I went to a much larger facility. There were still issues, but certainly far fewer. The biggest one was that our facility couldn't admit pediatric patients - at all. Which was insane because the pediatricians actually wanted to provide inpatient services, and we wanted to admit them too, but (and I kid you not) the nurses didn't want to learn PALs, and their command supported them. So we didn't admit kids. Period. Its insane. Skill rot was still an issue at the second post, but much less of one. We had a VA who allowed their patients to be seen, and we had ERSAs with local hospitals, and those things together provided for at least a modicum of complex cases....just not peds cases...

I have since left. Things are 1,000,000x better. I make 3-4x what I did in the military. I see more patients, but it actually feels like I'm doing less work because i have SUPPORT. If I ask someone to do something (like an MA) they do it. They don't get pissy. They don't argue. They don't disappear for 45 minutes. In fact, I think I had a little PTSD when I first got out because I was in the habit of just doing absolutely everything on my own (from taking vitals to rooming patients) because for the 9 years I was in the military you just couldn't trust that anyone would do it. I mean, they would. Clearly patients got admitted and roomed. But it was so slow and so inefficient and came with so many strings attached, you couldn't trust it. I don't even consider it anymore. My credentialing office does legwork. They just call me to sign things. I don't do online training. At all. The OR WANTS you to do cases. It's mind boggling. I call and they're happy to get the business. No one gives me $#!t for making them stay past 3pm. if I ask someone in my office to do something, no one ever tells me that it isn't in their job description. They don't just NOT do it and wait for me to ask them again. They don't get their union rep involved. If they don't know how to do something, they take the initiative to find out. (I certainly had enlisted soldiers who would do these things, but very few GS employees) I can go on vacation any time. I only have to tell them I'm going. No paperwork, no SERE training to go to (*&king Japan - I just go. I don't even think about moonlighting. I see a huge breadth of cases, and it ultimately boils down to what I want to do. People treat you with respect. The general gestalt is that they actually want to do what it takes to keep you working.

I met a lot of great people in the military. I don't regret that at all. I'm still very good friends with a lot of them. That is quite literally the only reason I would even hesitate to say that I wouldn't do HPSP again. Of course, had I not done it, I have to assume I would have met great people somewhere else. But maybe not as many. There are a lot of good people in the service. I loved treating soldiers. It was a privilege and an honor to do it. Again, the issue is that I'm treating service members now. I just don't have all of the baggage. I'm sure there's more I could post. Happy to expand or elaborate if needed.

Sounds like we’re in a similar situation. I’m right next to a large army post at my weekly satellite clinic and my military population has gone from <5% 2-3 years ago to >60% currently. We were restricting the number of Tricare patients we saw (because of the notorious poor reimbursement) but have now lifted the restrictions after renegotiating rates (it’s not commercial rates but it is definitely better than it was). I guess Tricare realized we had them by the b$&@s as ENTs on post have PCS’d, deployed, taken on “admin” roles, etc and essentially stopped seeing patients. So....the same patients that I was seeing at no cost to the military while I active duty I now am billing Tricare New Level IIIs with scope procedures on most visits. Many of these patients also result in surgeries given the large peds population. Not a smart business model but, heh, I gladly take the patients.

Incidentally, the spine surgeon in my practice was also former military at the same post as me. 1/3-1/2 of his practice is Tricare. They military gave him the golden ticket out many years before his ADSO for reasons I won’t get into here. He is a machine - 2-3 kyphoplasties before clinic, 50-60 in clinic than a couple of cases on the main OR. Every day! His salary last year was 30x what he made on active duty (yes, that’s a 30 not a 3). How much do you think Tricare is “saving” by outsourcing to him?

BL....idiots are running Milmed, DHS, AMEDD or whatever you want to call that broken department.
 
We were restricting the number of Tricare patients we saw (because of the notorious poor reimbursement) but have now lifted the restrictions after renegotiating rates

This would be good to update on our Tricare thread from last year so others know it is possible
 
One of the other great episodes at my first duty station:

I saw a kid referred from a local oral surgeon. There's this camp of dentists and oral surgeons out there who get CT scans on literally everyone who sees them, and then provide a "detailed analysis" where they look at airway diameter, etc. I get referrals for this all of the time "hey, the dentist told me my airway is narrow and I needed to come and see you ASAP." Ultimately, I haven't noticed much correlation between a cone-beam CT finding of soft tissue airway narrowing and any real issues. If they have symptoms of OSA, I send them for a polysomnogram. Most of the time they're totally asymptomatic. Most of the patients I send for PSG dont' have OSA (unless they have symptoms of OSA on history), and the ones that do usually do well with CPAP...meaning they really didn't need a CT to begin with. You can just take a history...But the CTs net them a lot of money out of pocket.

In any case: This kid is told that he has a narrow airway and big tonsils. He does. They're moderately large. So I see him, take a detailed history. He has essentially no symptoms of OSA. None. No issues with tonsillitis. Really, just a kid with big tonsils. So I suggested a polysomnogram and observation at night. Parents are happy with this.

A month goes by (takes a while to get a PSG) and DCCS shows up at my office. He was told by the local dentist that I wasn't treating patients appropriately because the parents came back to see him and told him that I wasn't planning on taking the tonsils out right away. He felt like I had somehow insulted his honor as an oral surgeon. He lived next door to the DCCS, and went to complain. What I think is that he told the parents they needed the tonsils out, and he was angry I didn't just do it because it made him look bad. I don't know why. He doesn't take out tonsils.

In any case, the DCCS immediately took his side, and straight up asked me why I wasn't willing to treat patients. Again, I probably did 10-12 tonsillectomies per week at that facility, so....

I told him that I treat patients based upon history, available data, and my training, not solely upon the recommendations of an oral surgeon, and that if the oral surgeon wants the kids tonsils out, he can take them out. I also mentioned that they had a follow up with me after his PSG, and if he would prefer we could just see what that shows.

The kid did not have OSA, btw.

When I was overseas the DCCS (non-clinical FM) told me to get dialysis machine from other foreign hospital and start dialysis! (No, I am not nephrologist). He hated me for sending cases outside. It was dangerous time for me and the patients. I just told him no and told him you can do that if you want. Same statement I’ve made to dentists... you can prescribe antibiotic if you want because my name is not getting on that stuff.

ER doctors would also call me that they cannot get hold of (that awful) DCCS and need permission to transfer sick patients to well equipped civilian hospital. Unbelievable!! I approved the transfer and knew that I am going hear from this guy with less medical training and experience than me. I told him that I am independent practitioner of medicine and I will do what I feel best for my patients based on my training and education. He was basically managing medical cases by reading UpToDate and thinks that that is adequate when he did not actually manage patients for a long time. Crazy time!
However military has some very good people. But system has so much room for improvements. People who want to change it gets out before hitting O7.
I worked several fine O6 officers (clinically competent) and I am trying to be one of them before retiring out of the military.
 
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I had codes called on TWO kids in the OR, both during emergence from anesthesia. One was an ear tube, the other was an ear tube and adenoid (short anesthesia, completely healthy kids). In both cases it was ultimately determined that the CRNA over-sedated and then wasn't prepared to deal with the consequences (bradycardia in both). That had never happened to me before, and hasn't happened since - not even once. I realize that it CAN, but it happened TWICE in 1 year at the same facility.

Sounds like you had a real ****ty experience overall. Sucks. Glad you're having a much better one now.

This isn't meant to defend anything or whatever, but I think the above is more of a CRNA issue. I have been scrubbed into multiple cases where that happened, and all of them were CRNAs. These were at civilian facilities. Terrifying.
 
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Sounds like you had a real ****ty experience overall. Sucks. Glad you're having a much better one now.

This isn't meant to defend anything or whatever, but I think the above is more of a CRNA issue. I have been scrubbed into multiple cases where that happened, and all of them were CRNAs. These were at civilian facilities. Terrifying.
No doubt that is true. But I’ve worked with a ton of CRNAs both in and outside of the military and never had it happen. And a lot of pediatric cases to boot.
Again, it can happen anywhere to anyone. I’m sure it was in part to do with level of training. But twice in a year...and again, no action taken. Just: don’t do that again, ok?
 
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No doubt that is true. But I’ve worked with a ton of CRNAs both in and outside of the military and never had it happen. And a lot of pediatric cases to boot.
Again, it can happen anywhere to anyone. I’m sure it was in part to do with level of training. But twice in a year...and again, no action taken. Just: don’t do that again, ok?

Yeah, that's ridiculous. That's basically what happened where I was at too.
 
It's a relief to have a DD 214 in hand.
 
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