Discussion about...what gets you in???

[lilchinoboy03]

ok im sure this has been brought up before...about...what are my chances at this school...should i retake DATs...should i do this or that....but what i'd like to know is...how do the ADCOMs really do it? im a cali native and most of the dental schools here have pretty modest GPA averages...like between 3.3 and 3.5ish for all of them right? i mean i messed up my first couple of undergrad years...but have brought it up since to just around the average GPA range...but just thinking about it...wouldn't you think more than a thousand of the 2000 applicants have these kinds of GPAs?...i mean we're not talking 3.8 or something real high....a 3.4 would be very common, if not on the low end, for dental applicants dont you think???

then from there...we can talk about DAT scores...from what i see...if youre considered competitive...your scores are around 19+...but then that is also around the average for most schools....so....i mean wouldn't a good half of the applicants have the type of scores and GPA the school wants...so like if 1000 applicants have stats they consider suitable....do they really turn to extracurriculars after that? i know EC is important...but it cant be THAT important that it makes that large of a cut....any insight from anyone? maybe its just me being frantic with all thse highly competitive SDN folks...

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[djeffreyt]

first...wow...lay off the ellipses and end sentences. That was hard to read.

J/K

anyway, all I can give you is opinions since I'm not an ADCOM, just a predent.
I think DAt scores are going up on average. so 17-18 was the 50th percentile a year or two back, and it seems like that's probably going up to about 18-19 being the 50th percentile nowadays. However, there are only about 4000 dental school seats open in a year, and we're getting up towards 12,000 applicants a year nowadays, maybe a little less. That means only about one-third to two-fifths of the predents will get into schools, so having a 50th percentile DAT score puts you at a bit of risk (again...my viewpoint only)

Also, it depends upon the school to decide how much E.C. matter to them. Some schools, like Arizona, look very highly on E.C. that show you have done a real service to your community. We're not talking about being a member of the math club, but being part of organizations that actually go into the community and do something. I'm sure other schools look at E.C.s differently, and I'm not sure any school has hard and fast rules about E.C.s and how much they count...except maybe UCSF.

Also, something you may not be considering is legacy. Some dental schools are private and are free to choose whomever they please. Some schools more than others do pay attention to whether or not an applicant is the son of an alumni, a niece of an alumni, or the 8th generation of a line of dentists dating back to Dr. Horace Hayden. I am not diminishing these people with connections...many are actually top-notch students and valedictorians of their classes, but some are a bit more sub-par, but still get in because of their connections.

Then there are schools like Loma Linda, who look for devotely religious predents, another factor that could affect entrance into a school beyond DAt and GPA scores. Also, I'm sure there are some predents out there with outstanding GPA and DAT scores who the dental schools refuse because maybe they are ESL and they don't communicate well (I've met a few of these in the predental clubs I've been to) or that just don't come across well in an interview because they are really shy, or bookworms, or complete suck-ups, or they are just such jerks they can't hold it in for more than a few minutes.

 

[Yellow Snow]

ok im sure this has been brought up before...about...what are my chances at this school...should i retake DATs...should i do this or that....but what i'd like to know is...how do the ADCOMs really do it? im a cali native and most of the dental schools here have pretty modest GPA averages...like between 3.3 and 3.5ish for all of them right? i mean i messed up my first couple of undergrad years...but have brought it up since to just around the average GPA range...but just thinking about it...wouldn't you think more than a thousand of the 2000 applicants have these kinds of GPAs?...i mean we're not talking 3.8 or something real high....a 3.4 would be very common, if not on the low end, for dental applicants dont you think???

then from there...we can talk about DAT scores...from what i see...if youre considered competitive...your scores are around 19+...but then that is also around the average for most schools....so....i mean wouldn't a good half of the applicants have the type of scores and GPA the school wants...so like if 1000 applicants have stats they consider suitable....do they really turn to extracurriculars after that? i know EC is important...but it cant be THAT important that it makes that large of a cut....any insight from anyone? maybe its just me being frantic with all thse highly competitive SDN folks...

I think you are overestimating the stats of an average applicant. For example, my state schools average acceptance stats are a 19AA/3.6 GPA but the average applicant is 17AA/3.2 GPA. The average accepted/matriculated numbers are not representitive of the average applicant.

 

[lilchinoboy03]

first...wow...lay off the ellipses and end sentences. That was hard to read.

J/K

anyway, all I can give you is opinions since I'm not an ADCOM, just a predent.
I think DAt scores are going up on average. so 17-18 was the 50th percentile a year or two back, and it seems like that's probably going up to about 18-19 being the 50th percentile nowadays. However, there are only about 4000 dental school seats open in a year, and we're getting up towards 12,000 applicants a year nowadays, maybe a little less. That means only about one-third to two-fifths of the predents will get into schools, so having a 50th percentile DAT score puts you at a bit of risk (again...my viewpoint only)

Also, it depends upon the school to decide how much E.C. matter to them. Some schools, like Arizona, look very highly on E.C. that show you have done a real service to your community. We're not talking about being a member of the math club, but being part of organizations that actually go into the community and do something. I'm sure other schools look at E.C.s differently, and I'm not sure any school has hard and fast rules about E.C.s and how much they count...except maybe UCSF.

Also, something you may not be considering is legacy. Some dental schools are private and are free to choose whomever they please. Some schools more than others do pay attention to whether or not an applicant is the son of an alumni, a niece of an alumni, or the 8th generation of a line of dentists dating back to Dr. Horace Hayden. I am not diminishing these people with connections...many are actually top-notch students and valedictorians of their classes, but some are a bit more sub-par, but still get in because of their connections.

Then there are schools like Loma Linda, who look for devotely religious predents, another factor that could affect entrance into a school beyond DAt and GPA scores. Also, I'm sure there are some predents out there with outstanding GPA and DAT scores who the dental schools refuse because maybe they are ESL and they don't communicate well (I've met a few of these in the predental clubs I've been to) or that just don't come across well in an interview because they are really shy, or bookworms, or complete suck-ups, or they are just such jerks they can't hold it in for more than a few minutes.

lol. Sorry for the run on sentences. It's late, and I guess I just have a lot of unfinished thoughts and just throwing them about there as is. What do you mean about UCSF's hard and fast rules on EC's? Do they look for certain things or care less about EC's?

 

[toothfairy85]

Just want to say that I took the DAT during the summer and scored a 19AA which was 86th percentile. As far as I know, for the AA, 15-16 has always been 50th percentile or just above that. You have to realize that pretty much anything 20+ gets you in the 90th perecentiles.

 

[hopelessdoc]

so how do schools compare applicants with 3.5+ gpa/19 AA and 3.0 gpa/20 AA (which is me..lol)??? i think it just depends on who is reviewing ur application as well as the mindset of the person/s involved!!

 

[toothfairy85]

If I were an adcom I would grant interviews to both. Dental experience and extracurriculars would play a huge role in separating applicants. For instance... 2 applicants, identical tests scores and GPA, and even same school... but one of them was involved in extracurriculars and the other was a bookworm. Which one do you take?

 

[hopelessdoc]

i agree, def allrounder jumps in first afa ur given case is concerned!!

 

[djeffreyt]

Just want to say that I took the DAT during the summer and scored a 19AA which was 86th percentile. As far as I know, for the AA, 15-16 has always been 50th percentile or just above that. You have to realize that pretty much anything 20+ gets you in the 90th perecentiles.

Yeah, I know what my percentiles next to my scores say, but I'm not totally sure they are accurate. There have been plenty of threads questioning how the percentiles are created first off. and Second off, if 15-16 is the 50th percentile, you have to wonder about whether people getting the 40th percentile are even applying. I mean, if you got DAT scores like 14/15/14/16/13/15/14 would you apply and waste your money? When I say that the average scores for applicants is probably around 18-19 now, I'm talking about the people who are applying to dental school, not just all the DAT takers cause quite a number of people take the DAT twice, and I'm sure some bomb it and withdraw their apps rather than pay more money. Besides, how the hell do you generate percentile scores before everyone has taken the test anyway?

And what I said about UCSF was meant in this way. They have a break down of how much each thing is "worth" towards making you an acceptable applicant. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it goes something like this:

GPA is worth 20%
DATs are worth 20%
Leadership experience is worth 10%
Community Service is worth 10%
Letter of rec are worth 15%
Obstacles in life are worth ...etc.

Those #s are examples, but that is what I mean by a hard/fast rule about how much E.C. counts. How they determine what % to give you out of 0-10 or 0-20 is a mystery to me.

 

[laelialudisia]

I don't remember the exact numbers, but it goes something like this:

GPA is worth 20%
DATs are worth 20%
Leadership experience is worth 10%
Community Service is worth 10%
Letter of rec are worth 15%
Obstacles in life are worth ...etc.

Those #s are examples, but that is what I mean by a hard/fast rule about how much E.C. counts. How they determine what % to give you out of 0-10 or 0-20 is a mystery to me.

yeah, i have found that interesting as well --- i think that breakdown % thing sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. i mean how do you quantify LOR's and community service, etc?

do they rate LOR's on some scale like: this LOR is VERY positive, we will give it a 4 out of 5 based on the # of positive words this evaluator stated about the applicant, and then we will average the scores among all LOR's and determine an LOR %, right

 

[issa]

i thought the gpa and dat are 80% and LORs/leadership are 20%.
my TS is 18 and it is in 72 percentile not 50 percentile.

 

[Envision]

my RC is 21 and thats a 82%. i guess predents are pretty good at reading

 

[toothfairy85]

Percentiles vary among versions of the exam. I had a friend get a 23 on RC and it was 97th percentile.

 

[jkh1886]

the admissions process can be mathematical. At first, they tend to be. This applies in all different fields: med, law, etc. when the adcom receives applications, they enter your numbers into the computer. Most focus on GPA and DAT at this stage. Schools usually have their own formula on how much weight to place on each number. The formula can be something weird like...

((GPA +0.5)*AA*(0.853*TS+0.1)*PAT/4 = Index.

The admissions index is computed for each candidate, and all candidates are ranked according to this index. They tend to look over the applicants with higher indices first. From that, they do a holistic look. They consider every activity the student has and decides: yes, no, or maybe.

They do this for all applicants, including those with lower indices. For those with lower indices, they look for something very special. Grew up in poverty? Veteran? Full-time student/single mom? Underrepresented minority? etc...

 

[vha7777]

I was just wondering what you all think adcoms will do with a person with a lower GPA but higher DAT score ie. like me, hahaha. At what point will a DAT score make up for the other areas? For instance I have 20/21/19 but that doesn't seem to be quite high enough (esp compared to the people on SND) to really make a difference even though it is on the higher end of the scale. I have also talked to adcom people all they always tell me that they are willing to look at the whole application to see if there is something that stands out so that it's not all just a number game (thankfully). Esp is there is something very unique about your application.