Dismissed From Dental School

[songan]

I was dismissed from dental school in my fourth year from an expensive private dental school and have not been able to find a job, not even fast food. COVID situation is hitting my area very hard. I cannot rely on parents for support for the crushing debt burden. Any tips? I cannot afford any further education right now and need career change recommendations! It was a bad situation complicated by a leave of absence and systemic issues. The school let me take the WREB and I had 1 semester left to go. It's been over a year and dismissal still made me so upset everytime I realize the time and money I lost. I did not even realize that dismissal was a possibility when I accepted admission since it seemed rare. My life trajectory is downwards and my possible career options are so limited now! My youth and dreams are gone.

Career advice is appreciated. My Bachelors was Biology so it greatly limits me. Professional school is not an option for me due to grades.

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[UCLA MCDB]

I am so sorry for you. Have you heard facebook group dental nachos? If not, please join there and ask for help!!
Why were you dismissed if you don’t mind asking.

 

[Life of Pablo]

Why’d you get dismissed if you don’t mind me asking.

 

[Iron15]

Honestly, I read your story on gofundme but did not understand exactly what happened.
In your gofundme you mentioned that IBR is not an option for you because of the huge tax bomb. A lot of dental studenys go with this option and end up paying the tax bomb. It will give you 20-25 years of working and building yourself up so you can pay that tax bomb later. Either way, sorry about what happened to you.

You should consider a career in IT. You can pretty much self learn automation testing for a couple hundred buck online and start making $100K+/year

 

[sobertiger]

Look into PSLF. No tax bomb.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I was dismissed from dental school in my fourth year from an expensive private dental school and have not been able to find a job, not even fast food. COVID situation is hitting my area very hard. I cannot rely on parents for support for the crushing debt burden. Any tips? I cannot afford any further education right now and need career change recommendations! It was a bad situation complicated by a leave of absence and systemic issues. The school let me take the WREB and I had 1 semester left to go. It's been over a year and dismissal still made me so upset everytime I realize the time and money I lost. I did not even realize that dismissal was a possibility when I accepted admission since it seemed rare. My life trajectory is downwards and my possible career options are so limited now! My youth and dreams are gone.

Career advice is appreciated. My Bachelors was Biology so it greatly limits me. Professional school is not an option for me due to grades.

So sorry to hear about your circumstances. I know it is easy for me to say, but you have a unique opportunity here. Nobody in the world should be as motivated to pay off these loans as you. You're not going to get the money to pay off these loans from working a low-wage job. As much as I hate income-based repayment, I would consider hopping on an IBR for the time being. From there you need to HUSTLE. You need to change your mindset and change your reality. If you can't appeal the decision and join the school again you need to start a business. You are clearly smart enough to be accepted into dental school, so you should be smart enough to be able to start a successful business. Your life trajectory is only downwards if you let it be. Rather than saying that your career options are limited, say your career options are limitless. You have the opportunity to start a business in whatever field you want. The only person limiting you is yourself. While you are building your business you need to work a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th job. Don't tell me there are none. McDonalds is still open. The internet still exists. People still need someone to watch their kids while they work from home. Lawns still need to be mowed. You get the point. Work hard. Make it happen. Don't let your circumstances control you. You need to control your circumstances.

 

[luisfigo]

Get an MBA, and work in the dental field, you know enough about the field and can make good money from the business aspect

 

[songan]

My clinical skills were not the best, but there is a surprising element of chance and risk when it comes to patient distribution. And it seemed like all the stars aligned to create a perfect storm situation that wrecked my life.

I would say: well over 2 dozen students stay past May of their graduating year at that school that dismissed me. They often stay until August because of the lack of RPD and crowns. It's scary because some of the best and most hardworking students in the classes before my class had to stay extra 2-3 months because of graduation requirements. I went into this without knowing the risks involved. My patient pool basically dropped out on me all of a sudden that summer despite my good evaluations on intial exam. It was crazy. I usually got B- to C- grades for clinic all third and fourth year. But then the F killed me!

 

[songan]

For those curious for all the sad details.

Search GoFundMe for the title of the campaign.

Dismissed From Dental School. Life Wrecked.

 

[songan]

Basically... as of today...I'm most scared of defaulting three times. Wage garnishment (I cannot find a job due to COVID related economy issues). Savings garnishment (I have almost no savings because dental school ate up my savings). Passport revoked. Property like cars/house taken by government (I have none). Prison time until someone gathers all $375K ("acceleration" of loans) to pay it all off at once, which is near impossible for lower middle class families like mine. My whole family is in horror.

 

[Quinque]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. If there is no way to appeal your dismissal, maybe look into another high paying healthcare field? Is there a Physician's Assistant program near your parents? That way you can commute from home, and only take out the extra tuition loans needed for the 2 year program.

 

[deleted954913]

Honestly, I read your story on gofundme but did not understand exactly what happened.
In your gofundme you mentioned that IBR is not an option for you because of the huge tax bomb. A lot of dental students go with this option and end up paying the tax bomb. It will give you 20-25 years of working and building yourself up so you can pay that tax bomb later. Either way, sorry about what happened to you.

You should consider a career in IT. You can pretty much self learn automation testing for a couple hundred buck online and start making $100K+/year

Do exactly what he said. IT is infinitely a more feasible route. You need 0 education to do it; I actually know quite a bit about the field and had done a bootcamp sort of thing prior to dental school. I an easily guide you and suggest programs that will not cost you anything, however, you must sign a contract/agreement to give 5-10 percent (sometimes more) of your income for a year or two. It's a consultant/contracting out developers/business analysis/ QA and all that stuff.

Tech is a very confusing field in the positions and the duties. Tech meaning both IT and coding/the software side. Fields like cyber security, cloud based storage platforms like Amazon Web Services, Msoft Azure and google services are dominating the landscape and so everyone is essentially practicing with these tools. It will seem VERY overwhelming at first, but I have helped my younger cousins/family friends and any younger or even an older soul who may have lost his way at some point into this profession and they are doing quite well.

I can give you a more thorough answer and provide recent data. (I literally had this same conversation with an ex the other day asking for career advice. It ended with me educating her about the costs of doing some type of occupational therapy/PA/psychology kind of ordeal. She didn't know the real impact of interest compounding and just the difficulty in the healthcare landscape.

She was grateful for the warning and decided to look into IT.

Also, contact me. I think a friend of mine also contacted you on my behalf earlier yesterday, stating that I would email you later. TOTALLY forgot to, but this post reminded me to get in contact with you.

I feel really bad for you, bud. But, hope isn't all lost.

 

[deleted954913]

Honestly, I read your story on gofundme but did not understand exactly what happened.
In your gofundme you mentioned that IBR is not an option for you because of the huge tax bomb. A lot of dental studenys go with this option and end up paying the tax bomb. It will give you 20-25 years of working and building yourself up so you can pay that tax bomb later. Either way, sorry about what happened to you.

You should consider a career in IT. You can pretty much self learn automation testing for a couple hundred buck online and start making $100K+/year

Wanted to double comment on this gent's post because this is the only advice you should listen to.

 

[schmoob]

PSLF was a great suggestion. You can work at any 501(c)(3) and as long as you make 120 qualifying payments under IBR, you won’t have to worry about defaulting, tax bomb, etc.

I also recommend you hire an attorney to look into the case. It may be money well spent.

 

[Damson]

I was dismissed from dental school in my fourth year from an expensive private dental school and have not been able to find a job, not even fast food. COVID situation is hitting my area very hard. I cannot rely on parents for support for the crushing debt burden. Any tips? I cannot afford any further education right now and need career change recommendations! It was a bad situation complicated by a leave of absence and systemic issues. The school let me take the WREB and I had 1 semester left to go. It's been over a year and dismissal still made me so upset everytime I realize the time and money I lost. I did not even realize that dismissal was a possibility when I accepted admission since it seemed rare. My life trajectory is downwards and my possible career options are so limited now! My youth and dreams are gone.

Career advice is appreciated. My Bachelors was Biology so it greatly limits me. Professional school is not an option for me due to grades.

Although I did not read through everything on the gofundme, are you able to appeal the dismissal decision?

 

[deleted954913]

I was dismissed from dental school in my fourth year from an expensive private dental school and have not been able to find a job, not even fast food. COVID situation is hitting my area very hard. I cannot rely on parents for support for the crushing debt burden. Any tips? I cannot afford any further education right now and need career change recommendations! It was a bad situation complicated by a leave of absence and systemic issues. The school let me take the WREB and I had 1 semester left to go. It's been over a year and dismissal still made me so upset every time I realize the time and money I lost. I did not even realize that dismissal was a possibility when I accepted admission since it seemed rare. My life trajectory is downwards and my possible career options are so limited now! My youth and dreams are gone.

Career advice is appreciated. My Bachelors was Biology so it greatly limits me. Professional school is not an option for me due to grades.

Did you file an article 78? You should have been able to that day in October when the final judgement for your dismissal was given. You have four months from the date of your TERMINATION, so assuming that is the SECOND AND FINAL APPEAL you are given (I think you said that) after appealing the grounds of the dismissal, you have one last appeal if any rules/policies in the handbook were not followed while making the decision to keep you or not. This is the only grounds you can have to win that appeal.

But, I know it's all bull**** too. They know they are going to dismiss you when they send you the first letter. Academic issues allowing for a student's dismissal are very difficult to parse from dismissals from disciplinary reasons. You would rather fight a disciplinary-induced dismissal because you are given a full panoply of rights, as is afforded with our due process innately preserved in all matters of the law.

In a disciplinary case, you have the right to face your accuser, have a hearing and defend yourself with legal representation. That means, a lawyer can help you make the case to keep you and usually, this is an asset for all students, because they use their legalese to make the administrators look dumb. Most admins will not bring their school's legal team until an actual lawsuit is filed. The hearing in a disciplinary dismissal scenario is just a hearing. It is not technically a dismissal yet because your faith is still being evaluated, hence the lack of lawyers from the university. They do not want to escalate the situation at all for many reasons (press, bad faith, having to cover the skeletons they leave exposed and they always have them exposed). The problem is, once a school establishes a case against you (you will be filing the petition to overturn the college's decision) they will have no issue even lying to protect their butt. There is a massive cushion in perjury laws in an article 78 sadly because not all evidence is considered standard material evidence even if a false claim is made but appears to be backed with documentary evidence.

Unless there are huge disputes over very material evidence that was critical in your determination of the dismissal, judges still don't throw out the case or perhaps switch the case from the judge deciding the verdict to an actual jury of your peers (not students, citizens) which is very good for the petitioner (you in this scenario). Colleges, especially health care schools, rely on these tricks extensively because they know judges have no idea what the hell their policies are and requirements. They will be lost trying to follow your story on go fund me, Less is more in these scenarios.

There is an unspoken rule apparently, though it really does not exist and more legal scholars are wondering about the this type of legal matter were student's due process is never given. It really is a massive issue in universities all over America. Especially in recent years, more and more publications in legal journals talk and agree that schools are given WAY TOO MUCH DEFERENCE in these 'dismissal due to academics' cases. They can not like you, fail you for failing an OSCE but really just didn't like you for making them late one day to their lunch break that they left 15 mins early for. I am embellishing, but I know of some insane crap that has happened to students. Really unethical and unfair stuff that ruined their lives all because the school wanted them out, 'made a mistake, genuinely maybe did make a mistake or whatever. Yes, some students need to be dismissed I know. You can't fail 8 classes 1 year and attempt to play innocent. But with matters due to requirements and the uneven distribution of rosters, that stuff is painful.

Actually, a very similar thing happened to me: leave of absence against my will, lack of getting a roster,... crap I made more points of similarities but got to actually run for work. Those points aren't needed for anything important. I just wanted you to have some idea of the legal aspects involved.

Don't want to make this any longer, but you should really contact me when you have a chance. I need some more clarification on your case but shoot me s message here if not I can give my email or something.

 

[Iron15]

Do exactly what he said. IT is infinitely a more feasible route. You need 0 education to do it; I actually know quite a bit about the field and had done a bootcamp sort of thing prior to dental school. I an easily guide you and suggest programs that will not cost you anything, however, you must sign a contract/agreement to give 5-10 percent (sometimes more) of your income for a year or two. It's a consultant/contracting out developers/business analysis/ QA and all that stuff.

Tech is a very confusing field in the positions and the duties. Tech meaning both IT and coding/the software side. Fields like cyber security, cloud based storage platforms like Amazon Web Services, Msoft Azure and google services are dominating the landscape and so everyone is essentially practicing with these tools. It will seem VERY overwhelming at first, but I have helped my younger cousins/family friends and any younger or even an older soul who may have lost his way at some point into this profession and they are doing quite well.

I can give you a more thorough answer and provide recent data. (I literally had this same conversation with an ex the other day asking for career advice. It ended with me educating her about the costs of doing some type of occupational therapy/PA/psychology kind of ordeal. She didn't know the real impact of interest compounding and just the difficulty in the healthcare landscape.

She was grateful for the warning and decided to look into IT.

Also, contact me. I think a friend of mine also contacted you on my behalf earlier yesterday, stating that I would email you later. TOTALLY forgot to, but this post reminded me to get in contact with you.

I feel really bad for you, bud. But, hope isn't all lost.

You are 100% right about IT being confusing. But with the right advice on what courses to take I think she will be able to make very good money. My wife is in IT and she is super happy with her job. I get jealous of her sometimes when she wakes up at 9-10, or just takes a day or too off when she feels like it, while I wake up at 4 am to study for CBSE lol. IT is an excellent field and will only get better.
Thank you for willing to help her.

 

[Laradd]

It is really hard to find a job in this pandemic time but I know if everyhting will get back to normal, you'll find one easily

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Keep in mind that just 0.85% of those who applied for PSLF got approved. I would not rely on that being your savior here. You need to come up with a plan that allows you to make minimal monthly payments now while you work your butt off to get a higher income. Then once you have a stable income you need to aggressively pay down remaining debt.

 

[Dochopeful13]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. If there is no way to appeal your dismissal, maybe look into another high paying healthcare field? Is there a Physician's Assistant program near your parents? That way you can commute from home, and only take out the extra tuition loans needed for the 2 year program.

Crna is a great option.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Crna is a great option.

OP will need to 1 - do a accelerated nursing program. 2 - needs to work in ICU for a 2-3 years (and unless he wants to move somewhere he won't get a job in the ICU just straight out of a nursing school) , 3- CRNA school for 2-3 years. The upside is PSLF opportunity once working. Downside is clearly the time and you'll accumulate interest on debt. Also, more debt probably because of the schooling you need. So if PSLF goes down the drain for you, you're basically in debt forever... unless you work in middle of no where virginia taking call forever so you can barely etch out ~300k.

But you say professional school isn't an option due to grades?? How is that even possible, you made it in dental school lmao.

Just buckle down, spend like 6 months learning python online. Python developers make 100-150k plus. It's like not even hard. Idk why more people don't do this if they work in some fast food joint. Save up some money for some lame "certificate" that shows you did something, show your work to potential employers, get a decent job. it's basically "learn at your own pace", I guess some people don't even have the drive to do that, though- rant over.

Anyways, if you still want to work in healthcare CRNA or even some sad online NP program will probably be worth it because of how well NP's suck up to politicians.

 

[Quinque]

Crna is a great option.

Yeah! Doing a salary search online, it looks like a CRNA actually makes equal, or can make even more than a general dentist. I think taking some extra loans for that is what OP would need to do to get a high paying career in order to begin to even imagine paying off those loans/interest.

 

[Quinque]

OP will need to 1 - do a accelerated nursing program. 2 - needs to work in ICU for a 2-3 years (and unless he wants to move somewhere he won't get a job in the ICU just straight out of a nursing school) , 3- CRNA school for 2-3 years. The upside is PSLF opportunity once working. Downside is clearly the time and you'll accumulate interest on debt. Also, more debt probably because of the schooling you need. So if PSLF goes down the drain for you, you're basically in debt forever... unless you work in middle of no where virginia taking call forever so you can barely etch out ~300k.

But you say professional school isn't an option due to grades?? How is that even possible, you made it in dental school lmao.

Just buckle down, spend like 6 months learning python online. Python developers make 100-150k plus. It's like not even hard. Idk why more people don't do this if they work in some fast food joint. Save up some money for some lame "certificate" that shows you did something, show your work to potential employers, get a decent job. it's basically "learn at your own pace", I guess some people don't even have the drive to do that, though- rant over.

Anyways, if you still want to work in healthcare CRNA or even some sad online NP program will probably be worth it because of how well NP's suck up to politicians.

She probably meant her dental school transcript is weak, which other professional schools may have to look at.

 

[Dochopeful13]

Yeah! Doing a salary search online, it looks like a CRNA actually makes equal, or can make even more than a general dentist. I think taking some extra loans for that is what OP would need to do to get a high paying career in order to begin to even imagine paying off those loans/interest.

Easily. Base can be 200 k and you can get to 300 k with OT.

 

[Dochopeful13]

OP will need to 1 - do a accelerated nursing program. 2 - needs to work in ICU for a 2-3 years (and unless he wants to move somewhere he won't get a job in the ICU just straight out of a nursing school) , 3- CRNA school for 2-3 years. The upside is PSLF opportunity once working. Downside is clearly the time and you'll accumulate interest on debt. Also, more debt probably because of the schooling you need. So if PSLF goes down the drain for you, you're basically in debt forever... unless you work in middle of no where virginia taking call forever so you can barely etch out ~300k.

But you say professional school isn't an option due to grades?? How is that even possible, you made it in dental school lmao.

Just buckle down, spend like 6 months learning python online. Python developers make 100-150k plus. It's like not even hard. Idk why more people don't do this if they work in some fast food joint. Save up some money for some lame "certificate" that shows you did something, show your work to potential employers, get a decent job. it's basically "learn at your own pace", I guess some people don't even have the drive to do that, though- rant over.

Anyways, if you still want to work in healthcare CRNA or even some sad online NP program will probably be worth it because of how well NP's suck up to politicians.

Wow is it really that easy? I’m shocked more people don’t do it. I googled it and you can learn python for free as well.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Wow is it really that easy? I’m shocked more people don’t do it. I googled it and you can learn python for free as well.

Yes, I had a friend who learned python coding online, he landed a stable job in a big city that he lives ~30 miles away from within like a month... Granted, it's not a 100k salary job, though.

 

[oralcare123]

Talk to a good lawyer.
Try jobs, which are available for unlicensed dentists. I believe it is teaching, insurance and sales in dental supply companies

 

[lwergod]

I'm probably not going to be able to get a new car since the government can take my property away at any time when I default on my loans three times. Wage garnishment. Savings garnishment. Passport taken away. Jail time. If the title of the car is in my Dad's name, then they cannot take the car, right? But the registration needs to be in my name. So if the title is in my Dad's name and the registration of the car is in my name, then if cops pull me over one day... will it look suspicious. It's okay when I'm young since many younger adults use their parent's cars, but when I'm middle aged, doesn't it look suspicious even if our surnames are the same? As if I stole the car if the title is in someone else's name. I'm paranoid but going through scenarios to decide the best plan of action for the eventual default of federal student loans that will happen sometime in the coming months in 2021.

I am surprised no one has advised you this yet, but I would look into hiring a lawyer.

 

[songan]

I can look into IT, but I wish I had done a safer economics and biology double major or just majored in economics, while doing dental school pre-requisites. There are actually MANY options for economics majors and computer science majors. I have a biology degree from UC Berkeley, but it's useless since biology bachelors are only good for getting into health professions. My GPA got ruined by dental school so I cannot apply to pharmacy, optometry, PA etc. That F in final semester for clinic was mainly due to chance circumstances with patients in my patient family dropping out, leading to low point totals compared to the other students. I usually got B to C- grades for clinic in third year. For the clinic course (penultimate to my dismissal), I got a C+ so to drop to an F for that doomsday final clinic course was so surprising. I was about to work on my final graduation requirements within 2.5 months when I got dismissed since I had just gotten the exact right patients that July.

Another thing that irritates me is that I needed certain competencies completed on my own patients, but the lead faculty/ administrators stepped in several times and forced me to give those treatments to other students in my class and in the younger class. If this had not happened, I would've finished most of the graduation requirements before the dismissal hearing. This is incorrect re-distribution in my opinion. Those students who received treatments from my patients were not as behind as myself (since they were often younger) and/or had HIGHER clinic grades that did not put them in jeopardy of not graduating. I got no patient treatments in turn from those students. ****It's one thing if I was AHEAD in clinic and they wanted me to give EXTRA treatments to other students, but I was BEHIND in clinic due to very few patients in my third year, which was already documented at some meetings with the Dean of Student Affairs taking written minutes. They unfairly took treatments from someone in a more precarious position to give to other students in safer, stable positions. I wonder if there is a patient issue at the school where there were not enough patients for everyone otherwise there would be plenty of treatments for everyone rather than niggling and redistributions. The class size changed from 86 to 144 a year before I started first year. I gave away molar root canals, root canal competency that I needed, caries removal competency, several oral diagnosis patients that I needed for my low oral diagnosis grade, oral diagnosis competency opportunities, and perio dx competency because I was required to do so. I got no treatments from other students in return, except for M's molar root canal in early 2018 right after he got his caries removal completed. But M was one of the strongest students clinically in my group and he ALREADY finished his endo competencies and had EXTRA to give away. It's one thing if I was AHEAD in clinic and they wanted me to give treatments to other students, but I was BEHIND in clinic and they still gave away the treatments I needed from my own patients. I was much further BEHIND in initial exam requirements than my ex-clinical partner and they NEVER checked and just started redistributing to her, dismissing any verbal comments or arguments from me.

I'm probably not going to be able to get a new car since the government can take my property away at any time when I default on my loans three times. Wage garnishment. Savings garnishment. Passport taken away. Jail time.Almost only dentists/doctors/software engineers/lawyers can pay for the 10 year standard or 30 year standard repayment. I had no way of expecting a life ending dismissal from dental school as a possible outcome of so much effort in school from preschool to college. I doubt that I can ever afford my own car if the loan payments even for the 30 year extended standard repayment is so high that it basically exceeds my monthly expected salary as a non-dentist. If the title of the car is in my Dad's name, then they cannot take the car, right? But the registration needs to be in my name. So if the title is in my Dad's name and the registration of the car is in my name, then if cops pull me over one day... will it look suspicious. It's okay when I'm young since many younger adults use their parent's cars, but when I'm middle aged, doesn't it look suspicious even if our surnames are the same? As if I stole the car if the title is in someone else's name. I'm paranoid but going through scenarios to decide the best plan of action for the eventual default of federal student loans that I expect will happen sometime in the coming months in 2021.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

There have been a lot of ideas thrown your way and you seem to not be interested/willing to try them. It is weird that you just let your patients be taken away as a 4th year student knowing you were hurting clinically. It sounds like you didn't even fight for them from how you worded it. The school is not out to get you and we have really only heard your side, BUT they do need to maintain a standard when graduating students and if they thought you were not meeting the minimum standard of care then they are ultimately saving you heartache/legal issues in the future. Yes, it sucks that you have that debt and maybe the school should have seen this as in issue earlier, but what's done is done. I'm not really a fan of you doing more school (more loans) hoping to mitigate this problem all the while interest accrues. No body said it before so try declaring student loan bankruptcy. No, it's not sexy, will probably kill your credit, but neither is your situation and you seem to be hurting badly.

Bankruptcy - Student Loan Borrowers Assistance

It is difficult, but not impossible to discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy. You can discharge federal and private student loans in bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is often considered a last resort …

www.studentloanborrowerassistance.org

Hope you can find some light in the darkness you're in right now.

 

[Damson]

Be strong. Mostly importantly, trust that things will get better. You will get through this.

 

[jda02624]

I saw your thread on DentalTown as well. There was a lot of advice on there as well. A lot of your situation is not clear, but perhaps that may be due to a language barrier. It would help to clarify your situation if it was written more clearly. At this point, you need to focus and deal with the situation at hand. Do not focus on the government taking a car that you do not have or sending you to prison, that is not going to happen and that is not an immediate problem. Don't focus on things like you should have studied another subject 8 years ago or your degree sucks and you can't do anything with it. Focus on what you can do right now. You were smart enough to get into dental school and you have a college degree, so you will have a future career in something. Don't give up so easily. At this point, you need professional help. You need an attorney to see if you have a case against the school. On DentalTown, they posted an couple examples of students dismissed unjustly from professional school and they pursued legal action and they were justified (won a lot of money against the school). If you were in fact wrongly dismissed, you need to rectify it.

 

[jda02624]

You took the WREB. Did you pass?

 

[wetvet]

Do exactly what he said. IT is infinitely a more feasible route. You need 0 education to do it; I actually know quite a bit about the field and had done a bootcamp sort of thing prior to dental school. I an easily guide you and suggest programs that will not cost you anything, however, you must sign a contract/agreement to give 5-10 percent (sometimes more) of your income for a year or two. It's a consultant/contracting out developers/business analysis/ QA and all that stuff.

Tech is a very confusing field in the positions and the duties. Tech meaning both IT and coding/the software side. Fields like cyber security, cloud based storage platforms like Amazon Web Services, Msoft Azure and google services are dominating the landscape and so everyone is essentially practicing with these tools. It will seem VERY overwhelming at first, but I have helped my younger cousins/family friends and any younger or even an older soul who may have lost his way at some point into this profession and they are doing quite well.

I can give you a more thorough answer and provide recent data. (I literally had this same conversation with an ex the other day asking for career advice. It ended with me educating her about the costs of doing some type of occupational therapy/PA/psychology kind of ordeal. She didn't know the real impact of interest compounding and just the difficulty in the healthcare landscape.

She was grateful for the warning and decided to look into IT.

Also, contact me. I think a friend of mine also contacted you on my behalf earlier yesterday, stating that I would email you later. TOTALLY forgot to, but this post reminded me to get in contact with you.

I feel really bad for you, bud. But, hope isn't all lost.

In my area recent PT graduates with a DPT can not fine jobs, same with OTs. PAs are working as Staff Nurses because there are no jobs for PAs.
Some are working as substitute teachers in Science classes just to make money.

 

[ESPN907]

I vote PSLF. Find an entry level gov job and do one of the IBR programs. You got this!

 

[TnMedic]

Honestly, with your education it would not be the most desirable, but you could very easily find a high paying job as a truck driver. It’s quite easy to clear 6 figures doing long haul in the southeast US. And companies will pay for your CDL and train you.

 

[jda02624]

Honestly, with your education it would not be the most desirable, but you could very easily find a high paying job as a truck driver. It’s quite easy to clear 6 figures doing long haul in the southeast US. And companies will pay for your CDL and train you.

Call it a hunch, but I have a feeling she's not the trucker type. LOL

 

[TnMedic]

Call it a hunch, but I have a feeling she's not the trucker type. LOL

I’m sure you’re right, lol. I’m not either, but as far as low investment/high return Occupations go, it can likely pay the bills. It’s certainly not desirable, but if I were in her situation I would definitely consider it.

 

[coralteeth]

OP, you need to lawyer up. Make sure you have lots of documentation. Two classmates at my school were dismissed third year, sued, and were readmitted to start D2 year again. It sucked for them but they have their DDS today. Your only chance at dental school is Detroit Mercy. Or you can you apply to any pharmacy school and get it right now but the pharmacist job market is terrible. However, pharmacy schools are hurting for applicants. Then you can get PSLF and work at any hospital or Indian health reservation and get all your loans forgiven. You will be able to conquer this.

 

[jLaws]

I second the last person. This is America, sue their a**.

 

[Ivy.ch]

If one of the dental schools didn't graduate a big chunk of their students - because they felt students didn't have enough experience because of COVID - and caused the students to miss their residencies, would there be grounds for a lawsuit?

 

[SirBrotherJam]

I second the last person. This is America, sue their a**.

Really...

If one of the dental schools didn't graduate a big chunk of their students - because they felt students didn't have enough experience because of COVID - and caused the students to miss their residencies, would there be grounds for a lawsuit?

She graduated pre-covid. PLUS OP NEVER WENT INTO DETAIL. She is very vague and yet some of you think that it is the school's fault? It might be, but you don't have the schools side of things and unless you have that, there is no need to say things like sue the school. Life happens, I get that, but some of this advise that is being given is VERY questionable. The more this drags on I am inclined to think the school was in the right or she just didn't care enough. She needs to get a job and start thinking about how moving on, NOT dumping money into more schooling. Lower her standards, work multiple jobs and get that debt under control.

 

[jLaws]

Really...

She graduated pre-covid. PLUS OP NEVER WENT INTO DETAIL. She is very vague and yet some of you think that it is the school's fault? It might be, but you don't have the schools side of things and unless you have that, there is no need to say things like sue the school. Life happens, I get that, but some of this advise that is being given is VERY questionable. The more this drags on I am inclined to think the school was in the right or she just didn't care enough. She needs to get a job and start thinking about how moving on, NOT dumping money into more schooling. Lower her standards, work multiple jobs and get that debt under control.

Absolutely. 375k and four years down the drain in exchange for absolutely nothing? I would lawyer up on day one. I don’t care what the situation with the school is, it’s live or die out there.

 

[Faefly]

Please, don't give up over this dismissal try again and again with the school until they let you back. Do whatever, but get back!
There is always a way.. Unless you did something horrible, there is always a way.. Don't give up!
You are being very very ok with this, life is over and what not.. No do something, whatever it takes and return to the school or like someone else said, sue them!
Try to convince them that you were going through rough time, maybe they will let you repeat the year.. That's very sad but you shouldn't give up! Don't!

 

[Faefly]

Another thing that irritates me is that I needed certain competencies completed on my own patients, but the lead faculty/ administrators stepped in several times and forced me to give those treatments to other students in my class and in the younger class. If this had not happened, I would've finished most of the graduation requirements before the dismissal hearing. This is incorrect re-distribution in my opinion. Those students who received treatments from my patients were not as behind as myself (since they were often younger) and/or had HIGHER clinic grades that did not put them in jeopardy of not graduating. I got no patient treatments in turn from those students. ****It's one thing if I was AHEAD in clinic and they wanted me to give EXTRA treatments to other students, but I was BEHIND in clinic due to very few patients in my third year, which was already documented at some meetings with the Dean of Student Affairs taking written minutes. They unfairly took treatments from someone in a more precarious position to give to other students in safer, stable positions. I wonder if there is a patient issue at the school where there were not enough patients for everyone otherwise there would be plenty of treatments for everyone rather than niggling and redistributions. The class size changed from 86 to 144 a year before I started first year. I gave away molar root canals, root canal competency that I needed, caries removal competency, several oral diagnosis patients that I needed for my low oral diagnosis grade, oral diagnosis competency opportunities, and perio dx competency because I was required to do so. I got no treatments from other students in return, except for M's molar root canal in early 2018 right after he got his caries removal completed. But M was one of the strongest students clinically in my group and he ALREADY finished his endo competencies and had EXTRA to give away. It's one thing if I was AHEAD in clinic and they wanted me to give treatments to other students, but I was BEHIND in clinic and they still gave away the treatments I needed from my own patients. I was much further BEHIND in initial exam requirements than my ex-clinical partner and they NEVER checked and just started redistributing to her, dismissing any verbal comments or arguments from me.

Yeah so ..so what?
Why are you telling us this? What can we do?
Go find a lawyer and tell him this and do something about it!

There is only one thing that can save you here, is to find a lawyer, find a lawyer who is doing probono.
You must do something!

 

[Cold Front]

I was dismissed from dental school in my fourth year from an expensive private dental school and have not been able to find a job, not even fast food. COVID situation is hitting my area very hard. I cannot rely on parents for support for the crushing debt burden. Any tips? I cannot afford any further education right now and need career change recommendations! It was a bad situation complicated by a leave of absence and systemic issues. The school let me take the WREB and I had 1 semester left to go. It's been over a year and dismissal still made me so upset everytime I realize the time and money I lost. I did not even realize that dismissal was a possibility when I accepted admission since it seemed rare. My life trajectory is downwards and my possible career options are so limited now! My youth and dreams are gone.

Career advice is appreciated. My Bachelors was Biology so it greatly limits me. Professional school is not an option for me due to grades.

Kind of late to this thread. But sorry to hear your circumstances. You are still young. The pain will hurt bad short term, but you still have a great life ahead of you. You can turn things around as soon as you get back on your feet on a nice sunny day. Let go of the past. Find the new “you”. Reset goals. Start on a fresh page. Start with a new set of priorities. Many dentists regret becoming dentists and are still stuck with high debt.

If you can get into a competitive professional school, you can do more than the average person in this country. I have side businesses that employ people with no college degree and I pay some of them $60-80k a year. If you are good at solving society problems, you can become as successful as any dentist. Dentistry = no guaranteed high income. Success does not = Dentistry either. Being a dentist helps for sure, but it’s a layer of many layers in life that you can accomplish.

Man... You have a lot of time to figure this out. But the sooner you escape from the past, the sooner you will accomplish more in life.

The very best of luck to the next chapters in life.

 

[schmoob]

I’m very sorry to hear this. Dental school is incredibly difficult so do not feel bad.
Try reaching out to dental schools and their deans. You can tell them that dental school is right for you, but it was not the right time in your life. Also mention that having completed 2 years of school puts you at an advantage when it comes to the material.
I really hope you can matriculate, best of luck.

 

[Rambunctious]

I was dismissed from dental school in my fourth year from an expensive private dental school and have not been able to find a job, not even fast food. COVID situation is hitting my area very hard. I cannot rely on parents for support for the crushing debt burden. Any tips? I cannot afford any further education right now and need career change recommendations! It was a bad situation complicated by a leave of absence and systemic issues. The school let me take the WREB and I had 1 semester left to go. It's been over a year and dismissal still made me so upset everytime I realize the time and money I lost. I did not even realize that dismissal was a possibility when I accepted admission since it seemed rare. My life trajectory is downwards and my possible career options are so limited now! My youth and dreams are gone.

Career advice is appreciated. My Bachelors was Biology so it greatly limits me. Professional school is not an option for me due to grades.

Very sad situation, but dental schools have to prevent certain people from going out there and seriously hurting or handicapping patients. You were one of them and the dental school did what they had to do. All these people saying get a lawyer are just dumb and don't understand that this was the best option to prevent OP from doing more harm than good.

 

[bracketbuster68]

Very sad situation, but dental schools have to prevent certain people from going out there and seriously hurting or handicapping patients. You were one of them and the dental school did what they had to do. All these people saying get a lawyer are just dumb and don't understand that this was the best option to prevent OP from doing more harm than good.

OP should definitely get a lawyer. And not listen to a word of this.

 

[Faefly]

Very sad situation, but dental schools have to prevent certain people from going out there and seriously hurting or handicapping patients. You were one of them and the dental school did what they had to do. All these people saying get a lawyer are just dumb and don't understand that this was the best option to prevent OP from doing more harm than good.

You don't know any details about what's going on with her or what was the situation in her school.
So please don't tell her she is hurting people.. All dental students and residents, hurt people unintentionally at one point or another during their practice, they wouldn't learn without mistakes.

They can force her to repeat the year, provide a one to one tutor for her to help her become better etc etc
There are hundreds of solutions rather than just getting rid of her after all the money and time spent!