DO applying to University vs Community ACGME Gen Surg

[bg3323]

Trying to gauge what would constitute a competitive application for a DO student applying to ACGME Gen Surg residencies, particularly what will set apart a solid application for a University program vs a Community-based program (also, if anyone knows any specific programs that fall into either category that have a known history of taking DOs, I'd have no choice but to love you if you would be willing to share). Any insight would be enormously appreciated -- thanks in advance.

COMLEX-1: 690
USMLE-1: 250
GPA: 3.90
Class Rank: 7/350
Research: 1 experience in undergrad (no publications), 1 experience summer between MS1/2 (poster this upcoming fall), and 1 experience with a 5th year ENT resident (paper being submitted now)

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[WhitJord85]

Step 1 and Level 1 scores solid.
Need your Step 2 scores for sure. Many programs won't invite for interview/rank without Step 2. Obviously do well on Level 2 as well.
Honestly if you have some people who can pick up the phone and make some calls on your behalf that helps.
If you have audition rotations open, that will help, particularly at community programs.
Solid/Excellent LORs from SURGEONS who know you well and have worked with you more than 4 weeks
As for specific programs... try the search function... multiple forums on this already... things get added every year. If there is a particular program you're wondering about, go to the program website and check it out. Better yet, contact the PD.

 

[demayette]

@bg3323 The sad thing is if you were a MD applicant (even from the lowest rank M.D. school), you would not have any issues matching ACGME gen surg with your credentials. For some reason ACGME gen surg is not too friendly to DO students...

 

[Gatorman177]

@bg3323 The sad thing is if you were a MD applicant (even from the lowest rank M.D. school), you would not have any issues matching ACGME gen surg with your credentials. For some reason ACGME gen surg is not too friendly to DO students...

Truth.

 

[bg3323]

@bg3323 The sad thing is if you were a MD applicant (even from the lowest rank M.D. school), you would not have any issues matching ACGME gen surg with your credentials. For some reason ACGME gen surg is not too friendly to DO students...

I agree that I'm not in an ideal situation, however, I don't think that my situation will make it impossible to get into an ACGME gen surg residency. I know some DOs in a community-based program, one of which has matched into a hand surgery fellowship. I just want to get a feel for what sort of differences community and university programs are looking for in candidates

 

[bg3323]

Also, any gen surg program that I would match into in 2016 would have to become ACGME accredited by the time I graduate from it, even if it starts as an AOA program. I'd rather be in an established ACGME program, but it'll be interesting to see what sorta changes come about with this whole AOA/ACGME merger

 

[demayette]

I agree that I'm not in an ideal situation, however, I don't think that my situation will make it impossible to get into an ACGME gen surg residency. I know some DOs in a community-based program, one of which has matched into a hand surgery fellowship. I just want to get a feel for what sort of differences community and university programs are looking for in candidates

I was not saying you will not match... My point was if you were a MD student, you would most likely (for the most part) pick the program you want to get into... ACGME gen surg is not a competitive specialty, though is it for DO students...

 

[bg3323]

I was not saying you will not match... My point was if you were a MD student, you would most likely (for the most part) pick the program you want to get into... ACGME gen surg is not a competitive specialty, though is it for DO students...

I didn't mean to come off as offended, that's my bad. I agree with everything you said and appreciate your kind words about my stats. I just wanna get an idea of where my best shot's gonna be -- I just started 3rd year so I've got time on my side

 

[cylondoctor]

Trying to gauge what would constitute a competitive application for a DO student applying to ACGME Gen Surg residencies, particularly what will set apart a solid application for a University program vs a Community-based program (also, if anyone knows any specific programs that fall into either category that have a known history of taking DOs, I'd have no choice but to love you if you would be willing to share). Any insight would be enormously appreciated -- thanks in advance.

COMLEX-1: 690
USMLE-1: 250
GPA: 3.90
Class Rank: 7/350
Research: 1 experience in undergrad (no publications), 1 experience summer between MS1/2 (poster this upcoming fall), and 1 experience with a 5th year ENT resident (paper being submitted now)

I have shockingly similar stats as you and I'm curious about this too. My school matched 1 person in allo gen surg (but a bunch aoa). She's at a mid tier university program. Talking to other specialties that matched allo, I am under the impression we are more competitive than we think as long as its not cali and northeast. I think breaking into the 250's adds a significant advantage at university programs but I think that's just a door opener, and you need to follow it up with a stellar application across the board. I think mid tier is definitely doable and with a repeat performance on step 2 you can definitely break into an upper tier.

 

[meliora27]

I am under the impression we are more competitive than we think as long as its not cali and northeast.

DO discrimination in certain fields/regions/programs is a real thing, but I also think there's an element of self selectivity. When you look on a program's website (let's just say an "upper-mid tier") and you see no DO's, is this because they're not accepted into the program or because they simply don't apply assuming they won't get in...

 

[SurgeDO]

You can match a mid to mid upper university with your stats. It has been done. Be practical but do not let the nay sayers and their misinformation hold you down.

 

[bg3323]

You can match a mid to mid upper university with your stats. It has been done. Be practical but do not let the nay sayers and their misinformation hold you down.

Thank you very much, I appreciate the encouragement. Any chance you'd be willing to share some examples of mid vs mid-upper programs (not necessarily DO friendly ones, but just so I can gain a ballpark idea of what programs you might be referring to). I understand that Mass Gen, Mayo, Hopkins, Brown, etc. etc. would fall into the "upper" category, but the delineation between mid & mid-upper is a bit hazy for me

 

[SurgeDO]

Thank you very much, I appreciate the encouragement. Any chance you'd be willing to share some examples of mid vs mid-upper programs (not necessarily DO friendly ones, but just so I can gain a ballpark idea of what programs you might be referring to). I understand that Mass Gen, Mayo, Hopkins, Brown, etc. etc. would fall into the "upper" category, but the delineation between mid & mid-upper is a bit hazy for me

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/do-friendly-acgme-gsurg-programs.984243/

 

[Petypet]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/do-friendly-acgme-gsurg-programs.984243/

That list is not all encompassing and may not even be correct. I think if you truly want an ACGME residency, you need to contact individual PDs and ask them. I have done this with about 15 programs, 2 of which were on the "hostile list" and they said with 250+'s you are MORE than competitive. Both those programs said they have ranked DOs but DOs have not matched there, likely because they matched AOA.

Out of all the programs that I have emailed directly, both in Ohio, Florida, and Illinois none have said we do not accept DOs, but rather say with XYZ stats you would be competitive. Certainly some of the larger, private, ACGME programs may not interview you (think Boston), but large state university programs will look at you if you have the scores, and frankly it sounds like the OP has the scores.

OP, apply broadly, continue to beef up your resume, and you will be fine. I think the biggest thing for us with similar stats is to not default AOA because of lack of confidence in the ACGME match.

 

[meliora27]

N=1 (at least that I can think of off the top of my head) but last year my school matched someone to Mayo (the REAL Mayo in Rochester, MN) for Gen Surg. We've had a few other Mayo matches as well in other fields.

 

[Petypet]

N=1 (at least that I can think of off the top of my head) but last year my school matched someone to Mayo (the REAL Mayo in Rochester, MN) for Gen Surg. We've had a few other Mayo matches as well in other fields.

It really feels like things are more about the applicant than necessarily the school. I think this goes for numerous specialities, surg, EM, radiology, etc. If you have the stats, some schools will gladly recognize you. If you are average, you are facing an up hill journey.

 

[NurWollen]

N=1 (at least that I can think of off the top of my head) but last year my school matched someone to Mayo (the REAL Mayo in Rochester, MN) for Gen Surg. We've had a few other Mayo matches as well in other fields.

As opposed to the Miracle Whip Clinic in AZ.

 

[meliora27]

As opposed to the Miracle Whip Clinic in AZ.

Don't forget about the sandwich spread in Jacksonville, FL.