DO Derm positions will Soon be available to the MDs and IMGs - ACGME AOA MERGER

[dermatovate]

The AOA and ACGME annouced the merger last week. It is likely that as early as July 2015, MDs can apply to DO Derm positions. That is about 50+ 1st year positions in dermatology. The unify match is being negotiated and arranged.

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[DermViser]

The AOA and ACGME annouced the merger last week. It is likely that as early as July 2015, MDs can apply to DO Derm positions. That is about 50+ 1st year positions in dermatology. The unify match is being negotiated and arranged.

This is assuming that DO residencies will hold up to ACGME Dermatology RRC scrutiny, with its many regulations. Considering that some of those residency programs are essentially working out of a DO Dermatologist's private practice and some of these positions are unfunded (which I assume with this merger, will no longer be allowed), it will be interesting to see how things shape up.

 

[Dral]

I'm guessing if they fall short in any area, it will be the consultation/call portion. This could be easy to remedy in theory, but more difficult in practice.

 

[DermViser]

I'm guessing if they fall short in any area, it will be the consultation/call portion. This could be easy to remedy in theory, but more difficult in practice.

I think many of them would also fall short on Pediatric Dermatology and Dermatopathology as there are some that don't have one on their staff, so I guess they'd have to fish for them elsewhere. Inpatient Dermatology will definitely be a problem for some of them.

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...essionid=f0305156d05c8d192eb01d6944425c5e2c17

If you click on some of the websites of these D.O. residencies, you see quite a few "programs" which are actually private practices, there was one in which salaries were like in the 20K range for residents.

 

[Apprands31]

Hi Guys,
Sorry for bringing up this old thread, but I have a couple if questions:
1. For those programs that can not fulfill the ACGME requirements , do you believe they can correct their deficiencies?
2. If they can not correct their deficiencies then is there any possibility that they will get absorbed by an ACGME program? Or will these programs just close?
Thanks again for your help and any input.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi Guys,
Sorry for bringing up this old thread, but I have a couple if questions:
1. For those programs that can not fulfill the ACGME requirements , do you believe they can correct their deficiencies?
2. If they can not correct their deficiencies then is there any possibility that they will get absorbed by an ACGME program? Or will these programs just close?
Thanks again for your help and any input.

I'm just guessing but here are my theories:

1) The outpatient portion of dermatology is probably the easiest to address. Strengthening core deficiencies in pediatric dermatology, dermatopathology, and consultative dermatology is going to take a lot of time to correct

2) What happens to deficient program is really anyone's guess at this point. I doubt they will be absorbed into an ACGME program. My guess is they would allow all current residents to graduate (or transfer), prohibit the matching of new residents, and then close the program at that point?

 

[DermViser]

I'm just guessing but here are my theories:

1) The outpatient portion of dermatology is probably the easiest to address. Strengthening core deficiencies in pediatric dermatology, dermatopathology, and consultative dermatology is going to take a lot of time to correct

2) What happens to deficient program is really anyone's guess at this point. I doubt they will be absorbed into an ACGME program. My guess is they would allow all current residents to graduate (or transfer), prohibit the matching of new residents, and then close the program at that point?

My understanding is if an ACGME program were to close while you were still in it, your spot and funding stay with you and you can take your funding with you for another Derm program. This happened recently with the Buffalo derm program that closed, so those residents took their funding and went to other programs.

 

[WaylonS]

My understanding is if an ACGME program were to close while you were still in it, your spot and funding stay with you and you can take your funding with you for another Derm program. This happened recently with the Buffalo derm program that closed, so those residents took their funding and went to other programs.

However, there was an AOA radiology residency in NY that closed a year or two ago, and it seems like the residents were SOL

 

[DermViser]

However, there was an AOA radiology residency in NY that closed a year or two ago, and it seems like the residents were SOL

Yes, bc the AOA residencies have different rules than ACGME residencies. In an AOA residency, if your program closes, you're SOL. With the merger they would all fall under ACGME.

 

[Mad Jack]

However, there was an AOA radiology residency in NY that closed a year or two ago, and it seems like the residents were SOL

I heard they did alright and that all of them managed to get spots elsewhere. They did lose some training time, but it could have been much worse.

 

[DermViser]

I heard they did alright and that all of them managed to get spots elsewhere. They did lose some training time, but it could have been much worse.

Were those positions paid for? I know some radiology residencies were offering to allow them training but it would be unfunded. My guess is they lost months due to the lag time from the end of their time at St. Barnabas and the start somewhere else. I would not blame them for being disillusioned with the entire process.

 

[Transformers]

Were those positions paid for? I know some radiology residencies were offering to allow them training but it would be unfunded. My guess is they lost months due to the lag time from the end of their time at St. Barnabas and the start somewhere else. I would not blame them for being disillusioned with the entire process.

Big picture-wise...what does this new openings of DO spots entail in terms of:

1.) competitiveness to get a spot into derm
2.) training and job market prospects down the road

 

[DermViser]

Big picture-wise...what does this new openings of DO spots entail in terms of:

1.) competitiveness to get a spot into derm
2.) training and job market prospects down the road

I don't think it really changes the competitiveness of getting into derm. I honestly think it helps MD applicants much more than DO applicants, whose residencies are now open to everyone. I don't think it will really hurt job market prospects. The only difference with the merger is WHO can apply to them. You still have the same number coming out.

The DO residencies in Derm tend to be lower in quality bc many of them are based out of community private practices vs. university academic medical centers, so the only thing limited is your overall exposure during residency training. AOA residencies thus far didn't have to meet ACGME RRC requirements with respect to their residencies, and now they will have to. Will be interesting to see how many end up closing down bc they just don't have the manpower or money to meet those requirements.

 

[budda10000]

Not to resurrect an old thread but I am curious about this myself. I have been interested in derm but two things have held me back. 1)its nearly impossible to match derm as a DO via ACGME even with stellar scores 2) the selection process for derm residents via AOA is in my opinion, ridiculous. One positive aspect of matching derm as a MD is that once you match, you have that residency short of being fired. Through the AOA you have to "audition" during your categorical year and then apply, some people find themselves in audition limbo for several years before getting their residency. Personally I am too old for that nonsense, I need some certainty when I match. Do you think this system will change with the merger? I cannot seem to find any good information on it. I really like derm and have the scores for it but the system just makes it seem unrealistic given family responsibilities ect.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Lol... IMGs ain't gettin' jack besides IM, FM, Peds, or some Gen Surg pre-lims. This won't change with the merger lol

Derm is still gonna be a pain in the behind to match and you better be a rockstar applicant whether MD or DO.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Just a n=1, but I spoke with a PD of the dermatology department and they said that they have zero bias when it comes to MD/DO. They are just looking for people who have an amazing work ethic. This is an ACGME program.


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[Psai]

Just a n=1, but I spoke with a PD of the dermatology department and they said that they have zero bias when it comes to MD/DO. They are just looking for people who have an amazing work ethic. This is an ACGME program.


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Well yeah I wouldn't have much of a bias if I had a 250 step 1 cutoff either.

 

[Decicco]

Just a n=1, but I spoke with a PD of the dermatology department and they said that they have zero bias when it comes to MD/DO. They are just looking for people who have an amazing work ethic. This is an ACGME program.


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I am familiar with the interview process of several derm programs. All but one do not interview DO applicants. The one that does still has not ever had a DO resident.

 

[BellaDO]

I don't think the above is true --- those DO students that have matched in past and this current year those programs must be open to taking DOs

 

[username456789]

I don't think the above is true --- those DO students that have matched in past and this current year those programs must be open to taking DOs

The point is that the majority of ACGME dermatology residency programs don't even interview/consider DOs, despite the wishes and dreams of DO applicants everywhere. There are a few programs out there that do tend to at least interview/consider DOs for various reasons, but the merger is unlikely to remove the bias against DOs most programs hold.

FWIW, my program has never interviewed a DO.