I've tried researching this a lot, but do you all have any idea what schools are DO friendly for neurosurgery residency? Allo and osteo residencies will suffice, but just wondering. Thanks!!
thanks for the information, jagger. A guy from osu medical school in tulsa got into KU neurosurgery two years or so ago, which is awesome. How rare do you think this is
I don't know tbh. My initial instinct says "quite rare," but I'm not sure how desirable NS is at the moment. Technically, these guys are some of the best paid once they are out, but it's my understanding that residency is long and super tough, the lifestyle isn't great, and the mal practice is high. Compare that to something like ACGME derm, and it's understandable that it's not as crazy to get. However, throw in the fact that a lot of Allos probably still want NS and that ACGME surg residencies probably have some of the strongest DO bias, and you can see why it's tough. Again ... I'm going to go with "quite rare." I could be way off, and I've also heard that there are a few good AOA NS residencies ... so both things to consider.
I would say neurosurg is top 5 in terms of competitiveness. Probably a little below PRS, ENT, Radonc, and Derm and about on par with Ortho. That said, the candidate pool is smaller and more elite because the people self-select for it. The typical candidate is extremely intense. Neurosurg is probably the most prestige-biased of the surgical specialties too. The average Step for ACGME NS is in the low 240s, fwiw.
yeah i've seen residents and docs in the NS forums talking about how the lifestyle sucks and you really gotta LOVE NS to go into it cus it sucks even after the 7 long years of residency..
But then again..you do get to play around in people heads..and then somehow they're awake and talking after...now THATS rewarding...
I don't hear the same concerns of mid-level encroachment in neurosurgery that I do in other fields. Although I believe much of the mid-level work will be automated someday, in the time between now and then, neurosurgeons seem fairly safe. Mid-levels haven't seemed to penetrate NS as easily as other, similar fields like orthopedics.
what does mid-level encroachment mean..?
I wanna clarify what I meant a little bit by mid-level encroachment, because even the "encroachment" in orthopedics doesn't seem as threatening relative to fields like anesthesia or dermatology. Orthopedic surgeons often use PA's for a variety of roles, often to take the bad call days. However, you could probably say several examples of encroachment in other fields by other types of mid-levels probably started in a way similar to this. Anyway, I really haven't seen heavy use of PA's or NP's in Neurosurgery. Encroachment seems like a fairly large threat for physicians of all types; maybe they just don't know it, or don't care. I'm not really sure about that. BUT from my experiences, I really haven't heard much worry of mid-level encroachment from neurosurgeons. The only threats I've really heard are ones from the government making it nearly impossible to run a private practice and someday you'll have no choice but to be a hospital employee. Good for some, bad for others, I suppose.
I totally agree with you, Jagger and I want to make some other points that have pissed me off, too, as I shadow more doctors. Disclaimer: I DO think nurses perform a great service to patients and are highly needed in health care systems, however, I do not think, personally, that nurses should wear white coats, prescribe medications, or have the same work load. Here's the deal....nurses do NOT have to pass USMLE/COMLEX, which are incredibly difficult tests...they do NOT have to take them THREE TIMES. They do NOT understand the biochemical systems within our body, nor does the average nurse understand the mechanism of drug action. Sorry for the random/pissed off tangent, but I believe I have a point here.
Second, I think it's impossible to have mid-level encroachment in neurosurgery, because a nurse will never replace the neurosurgeon. These highly skilled physicians undergo years of education for a reason...they cannot be replaced.
GREAT POINT. But, let me amicably ask you...would you honestly let a CNA perform anesthesia on you?
It seems unfair to me that if one gets into AOA Neurosurgery then you automatically have to withdraw from acgme...unfair?