Do NOT go into Dentistry - Trust me it is SATURATED

[midman19]

I like how honest you are about the financial side of paying for dental school. I think more people need a reality check relating to the debt they will be taking on. However, I think the other issues you raised can be experienced in any career field and it comes down to each individual to either succeed or fail at what they do. Even in the most saturated market you can make good money if you're doing things right. You're very right in that dentistry isn't the easy field everyone who is getting into it thinks it is. Survival of the fittest, and people are going to have to fight hard to do well. I do believe that the most successful dentists are the ones who don't over prescribe procedures and instead make decisions based on what's best for the patient. When you make it about the people, you will succeed and I have seen that first hand. Thanks for your thoughts OP. I hope your situation improves and that in the end you won't feel that you made a huge mistake.

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[GypsyHummus]

Yea by living under a bridge.

I lived off of 15k the past 4 years. What's another 7

 

[cacajuate]

I lived off of 15k the past 4 years. What's another 7

How many bills is your dad still paying?

 

[GypsyHummus]

How many bills is your dad still paying?

Non. My housing is round 450-500$/month (depends on the year, single room). Bought my furniture second hand, spend about 400/month on groceries and gas. Throw in cell phone bill and odds and ends expenses and I spend round 15-17k/year on living (more so if I have a car problem) I've never felt impoverished, although my housing Premier. I also don't have a family. I get to eat out about once a week. Now on the coast, I agree, no way, but move to the Midwest/south and options open up.

 

[Incis0r]

Non. My housing is round 450-500$/month (depends on the year, single room). Bought my furniture second hand, spend about 400/month on groceries and gas. Throw in cell phone bill and odds and ends expenses and I spend round 15-17k/year on living (more so if I have a car problem) I've never felt impoverished, although my housing Premier. I also don't have a family. I get to eat out about once a week. Now on the coast, I agree, no way, but move to the Midwest/south and options open up.

You're right. It is very possible to live a happy life on 20K/yr.
@cacajuate is probably trying to imagine how that would happen in NYC or Chicago or San Francisco, where it is harder to get things done on that budget.

But as you said, if you live in TX, or another midwest state, you can get by on 20K quite happily.

 

[catoshiro]

You're right. It is very possible to live a happy life on 20K/yr.
@cacajuate is probably trying to imagine how that would happen in NYC or Chicago or San Francisco, where it is harder to get things done on that budget.

But as you said, if you live in TX, or another midwest state, you can get by on 20K quite happily.

If you're single/don't have any dependents.

 

[bco99]

Man from reading the responses it seems like some of you aren't that sure that you wanted to be dentists in the first place :0

 

[cacajuate]

You're right. It is very possible to live a happy life on 20K/yr.
@cacajuate is probably trying to imagine how that would happen in NYC or Chicago or San Francisco, where it is harder to get things done on that budget.

But as you said, if you live in TX, or another midwest state, you can get by on 20K quite happily.

I do live in Texas and not in austin/dallas/houston and I have bills that cost me more than 15k a year. That's with no car payment and only $250 a month for school loan payment.

At 21, you still might think $15k a year is a lot of money but that is seriously nothing. Throw in a family and there is zero chance.

 

[Incis0r]

I do live in Texas and not in austin/dallas/houston and I have bills that cost me more than 15k a year. That's with no car payment and only $250 a month for school loan payment.

At 21, you still might think $15k a year is a lot of money but that is seriously nothing. Throw in a family and there is zero chance.

To you $15K may not be a lot, but @GypsyHummus demonstrated so nicely with their budget- it is plenty, and to the average Texan (per capita annual income of 26K), it is enough to get by, given that over 80% of them are above the poverty line with a similar level of spending.

Source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48000.html

P.S.- You have bills that cost you over 15K a year? Fair enough. I have a friend in Texas who lives on $800-$1K/month, in his own apartment, with his own medical plan, car, etc. Everyone has different situations. To him, $15K/yr is plenty of money. I asked him to rate his level of happiness to me on a scale of 1 (horrible) to 10 (LOVE life). He told me he's at an 8.

 

[strep mutans]

Keep in mind that the Census shows the per capita Texas income to be $26K, and the household income to be $50K. Even with these numbers, over 80% of Texans are above the poverty line.

$15K is close to 60% of the average single Texan's income, and 30% of the average household's income.

To you it may not be a lot, but @GypsyHummus demonstrated so nicely with their budget- it is plenty, and to the average Texan, it is enough to get by, given that over 80% of them are above the poverty line with a similar level of spending.

Source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48000.html

It would probably be best for you to stop acting like you speak for the average Texan. You don't even live here.

Per capita income isn't the statistic that matters here, but household income. Very few people live comfortably on 20K and live alone.

 

[Incis0r]

Per capita income isn't the statistic that matters here, but household income. Very few people live comfortably on 20K and live alone.

Even if you use the $50K/yr household income level.....$15k is still a lot. It's about 30% of that! It's not a negligible amount of money.

 

[gucci]

I actually live in Texas and what Incis0r said is pretty spot on at least in regards to my friends and I, @strep mutans do YOU live here? (not meant to be insulting, I am genuinely wondering)

 

[felipe912839128]

@strep mutans I am from Texas too and I definitely know tons of people who live comfortably on 20k, you strike me as an idiot

 

[akog]

Discussing "how cheaply it's possible to live" is one way to counter OP, I guess

 

[p4cific2012]

It would probably be best for you to stop acting like you speak for the average Texan. You don't even live here.

One of my cousins (who graduated from Pacific a year after me with $20K more loans) is living in TX right now, and he and his wife are paying off a huge chunk each year while living on $20K/year. They don't feel deprived either. They just don't waste money.

 

[Incis0r]

I actually live in Texas and what Incis0r said is pretty spot on at least in regards to my friends and I, @strep mutans do YOU live here? (not meant to be insulting, I am genuinely wondering)

How much do you spend each month? Just curious!

@strep mutans I am from Texas too and I definitely know tons of people who live comfortably on 20k, you strike me as an idiot

I wouldn't call him an idiot- we just disagree, which is fine!
It's good to get other people's perspectives.

Also, would you mind sharing your monthly spending?

Discussing "how cheaply it's possible to live" is one way to counter OP, I guess

Sorry for the de-rail.

One of my cousins (who graduated from Pacific a year after me with $20K more loans) is living in TX right now, and he and his wife are paying off a huge chunk each year while living on $20K/year. They don't feel deprived either. They just don't waste money.

Thank you, Dr!!!
Also, can you please check your PM?

 

[gucci]

@strep mutans I am from Texas too and I definitely know tons of people who live comfortably on 20k, you strike me as an idiot

Although I appreciate your support, we should try to keep this conversation respectful!

 

[strep mutans]

I actually live in Texas and what Incis0r said is pretty spot on at least in regards to my friends and I, @strep mutans do YOU live here? (not meant to be insulting, I am genuinely wondering)

Yes. Texas is a big state; it makes sense that there would be some variation in CoL, but to make a blanket statement that someone could live comfortably on 15-20K/yr here would not be accurate in many parts of this great state, especially the parts most people from out of state think about moving to. Then again, comfort is subjective; maybe some feel confortable with no savings, no health insurance, no auto maintenance, etc.

@strep mutans I am from Texas too and I definitely know tons of people who live comfortably on 20k, you strike me as an idiot

Nice first post.

 

[felipe912839128]

Not my first post but ok, and I haven't really had any need to comment before but the way you are acting on this thread just made me really mad

 

[felipe912839128]

@Incis0r

$700/mo for rent
$200/mo groceries
$300/mo misc: phone bill, utilities, car insurance, health insurance

 

[Incis0r]

@Incis0r

$700/mo for rent
$200/mo groceries
$300/mo misc: phone bill, utilities, car insurance, health insurance

Nice!!!!!

 

[cacajuate]

@Incis0r

$700/mo for rent
$200/mo groceries
$300/mo misc: phone bill, utilities, car insurance, health insurance

What a load of bull****.

Who do you get your health insurance from? What's the deductible? What's the copayment?

$50 a week to eat, give me a break.

 

[darknightzzz]

What a load of bull****.

Who do you get your health insurance from? What's the deductible? What's the copayment?

$50 a week to eat, give me a break.

jeez, stop being so judging.

50$ a week IF you cook all your meals and buy on-sale meat (chicken and pork).

with 1.5$/lb chicken and 2$/lb pork you can buy 5lb each and the rest is for bread and rice.

of course, if you eat mcdonald, it wont be enough.

BUT this is the extreme side but still do able. i dont see you come from poverty bro.

assuming ur not dying yet and still healthy, whats the point of having a low copayment or low deductible for? in case u dont notice most young people rarely use their insurance so what begs for the need of super premium insurance.

 

[felipe912839128]

What a load of bull****.

Who do you get your health insurance from? What's the deductible? What's the copayment?

$50 a week to eat, give me a break.

1. ACA Plan- $138/month in premiums. $6,850 deductible/max out of pocket cost. Co-pay is $20/visit for specialist. Free PCP wellness checks.

2. $50/week is actually a lot of money. I cook at home and eat a lot of good food- lots of meat, beans, etc. I also spend $25/month on utilities, and $100/month on car insurance.

Perhaps you shouldn't be so out of touch with reality.

 

[gucci]

What a load of bull****.

Who do you get your health insurance from? What's the deductible? What's the copayment?

$50 a week to eat, give me a break.

I find it funny that@cacajuate is actually interrogating this poor kid

 

[oralcare123]

Guys, you need to stop thinking about how to live on 15K and start thinking about how to become good enough dentist to make 200K a year right out of school

 

[swindoll]

All the time. My dentist is full, not taking new patients, hasn't for several years. His son, who has been with his practice 2 years is also now full. The other dentists in town are also full, well one isn't but he is a crook and people don't stay with him very long. We have family friends that have to drive 1 1/2 hours to go to a dentist because they are newer to town and can't get in. We got lucky years ago to get into our now dentist because we got to be friends with his children in sports.

Also, the most expensive house on the market in our town is $450,000. It is a 6500 sq foot huge house. A typical 2 story, 4 bedroom "suburban" house goes for about $250,000 but you can get into a nice 4 bedroom ranch, 2500 ish sq feet for $150,000 or less. So, even if you netted 100K/year, your cost of living is so much less, walk to work probably even, that you are still living a really nice lifestyle. Heck, a family membership at the PGA 4 star rated golf course in town is only $1600/year.

Just curious, where do you live?

 

[Soleus715]

@Incis0r

$700/mo for rent
$200/mo groceries
$300/mo misc: phone bill, utilities, car insurance, health insurance

my expenses are actually very similar to yours. I can totally relate to that.

@cacajuate I think you underestimate how frugally one can live, unless you've had to live in that kind of situation.
I'm not saying it's something I'm boasting or embarrassed about but that's the reality of it. There's nothing wrong with being rich or poor.
But things are the way they are and it's honestly completely understandable that some people cannot relate to my experiences living with so little.
Where it's wrong is when you choose to call other people's frugality BS and put others down for their financial situation. That's wrong.

Some people come from very difficult financial backgrounds due to many different reasons. (mine deals with an accident in the family)
Many families find a way to cope with it, mine was to be very stingy with money and plan out everything.
That means zero unnecessary spending. I still have a $7 jean I got from a thrift shop from a decade ago. As long as it doesn't have holes, I'll keep using anything I can.

But back to the topic. Like what @oralcare123 said, we need to be concerned with how we're going to plan out the starting year as a new grad. Our lives can and will change financially. We need to be prepared for that

 

[Screwtape]

Lol COL is so dependent on the street you live on. Not just the city. I've been living on $14k a year in dental school and I'm not overally frugal. It helps that my rent with utilities is about $500/month. Midwest living FTW!

 

[ajj70]

If you're single/don't have any dependents.

Even being married and a couple kids there are 1000's of places across the country where one can EASILY live on 20K/year take home, EASILY.

I do live in Texas and not in austin/dallas/houston and I have bills that cost me more than 15k a year. That's with no car payment and only $250 a month for school loan payment.

At 21, you still might think $15k a year is a lot of money but that is seriously nothing. Throw in a family and there is zero chance.

What do you spend your money on if you are spending over 15K/year???

What a load of bull****.

Who do you get your health insurance from? What's the deductible? What's the copayment?

$50 a week to eat, give me a break.

That is a very typical premium for a single person for an ACA plan. What do you spend/month on your health insurance? My auto insurance is $40/month, same with my cell phone--granted my parents still have me under their plans but I pay that amount and they plan to keep me on their plans through school at least because it makes no sense not to when I would have to pay $80 for my phone, etc.

Just curious, where do you live?

Small, midwest town.

My friend is moving off campus next year. She is renting a 1 bedroom apartment in an older, Victorian house 2 blocks from campus and pretty much across the street from MOSDOH....for $250/month including utilities.

 

[schmoob]

Even being married and a couple kids there are 1000's of places across the country where one can EASILY live on 20K/year take home, EASILY.



What do you spend your money on if you are spending over 15K/year???



That is a very typical premium for a single person for an ACA plan. What do you spend/month on your health insurance? My auto insurance is $40/month, same with my cell phone--granted my parents still have me under their plans but I pay that amount and they plan to keep me on their plans through school at least because it makes no sense not to when I would have to pay $80 for my phone, etc.

Small, midwest town.

My friend is moving off campus next year. She is renting a 1 bedroom apartment in an older, Victorian house 2 blocks from campus and pretty much across the street from MOSDOH....for $250/month including utilities.

First off, do you have any children? How do you know how far YOUR money will go when it comes to YOUR family. You're thinking of money as far as a broke college kid, not as a grown up that's responsible for people other than yourself. Many College towns are aware that much of the economy run off of students with no money. Once you're done with Dental school, you will likely move to a non-college town, right? If you still think that you want to have a family in a little apartment, you're nuts. First, you will need more space. LOTS more. Second, you will want to be in a better neighborhood. Like I said, it's not only yourself you are responsible for anymore. Third, you will need to reevaluate your budget. Do you have any idea how much kids cost?! Diapers, wipes, cream, formula/baby food, cribs, strollers, bouncers, car seats, play yards, toys, clothes that they constantly grow out of, shoes, haircuts...the list goes on and on.
Next, how about that health insurance? Now that you have a spouse and children, your premium will jump significantly. And kids get sick, a lot. Don't forget to buy the medicine!
living on $15K-$20K a year for a family of 4 falls within poverty guidelines. If after 8 years of school you are making 10 times that amount, but CHOOSE to subject your spouse and children to live in poverty well into your 30s for the sake of paying off a loan faster, it might be time to reevaluate your priorities. Don't claim that you think money isn't everything, yet you would choose to put their comfort second to the finances.
Stop thinking about budget like a 21 year old student with no other responsibilities except school, and start thinking about it like a grown up because that time will be here before you know it.

 

[cacajuate]

What do you spend your money on if you are spending over 15K/year???

I have a wife and child but

$400 health insurance (thankfully on grandfathered PPO plan)
$250 loan payment
$100 cable/Internet
$110 phone
$150-300 electricity/water
$400 probationary teaching certificate

I'm not even going to grocery bills but easily $100-200 a week. And that's just buying normal things. Baby stuff? Adds up real quick.

Monthly take home income is $3500. Luckily I own my house or we'd be in trouble. We live comfortable, by no means extravagantly. I stand by about living on $14k is living under a bridge or parents are still cutting you breaks on some bills.

 

[schmoob]

I have a wife and child but

$400 health insurance (thankfully on grandfathered PPO plan)
$250 loan payment
$100 cable/Internet
$110 phone
$150-300 electricity/water
$400 probationary teaching certificate

I'm not even going to grocery bills but easily $100-200 a week. And that's just buying normal things. Baby stuff? Adds up real quick.

Monthly take home income is $3500. Luckily I own my house or we'd be in trouble. We live comfortable, by no means extravagantly. I stand by about living on $14k is living under a bridge or parents are still cutting you breaks on some bills.

Yep. You seem to be doing a good job with budget and you're still way above $20K.
I have a rent payment and I still have a car payment. Don't forget about gas costs and repairs if you need them. I have a wife and two kids, we go through about 5 GALLONS of milk a week.
The point is, it is very difficult to make such a small amount stretch that far.

 

[Screwtape]

I have a wife and child but

$400 health insurance (thankfully on grandfathered PPO plan)
$250 loan payment
$100 cable/Internet
$110 phone
$150-300 electricity/water
$400 probationary teaching certificate

I'm not even going to grocery bills but easily $100-200 a week. And that's just buying normal things. Baby stuff? Adds up real quick.

Monthly take home income is $3500. Luckily I own my house or we'd be in trouble. We live comfortable, by no means extravagantly. I stand by about living on $14k is living under a bridge or parents are still cutting you breaks on some bills.

I feel like there are two different arguments going on here. I definitely agree that $14k/year is nearly impossible with a family, but absolutely doable for a single person in most locales. Also, if you have a family hopefully the wife is bringing in some extra income, or at least once the kids are in school.

 

[Incis0r]

I feel like we're talking about two different things here. I think 20K is much more easily doable as a single person than as a family. @schmoob and @cacajuate - you guys are referring to family budgets, and I agree that kids are very expensive.

Maybe the assumption nowadays is that you will automatically have a family to provide for no matter what, right out of dental school. But when I made the 20K statement, I did so under assumption of being single.

If you're single, you're still only responsible for yourself. So I see no reason why we should expect significant cost of living increase.

I pay all of my bills right now- without any assistance from anyone- and I'll continue to pay the same bills once I graduate dental school.

 

[Incis0r]

I feel like there are two different arguments going on here. I definitely agree that $14k/year is nearly impossible with a family, but absolutely doable for a single person in most locales. Also, if you have a family hopefully the wife is bringing in some extra income, or at least once the kids are in school.

Yes exactly!!! Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[ajj70]

First off, do you have any children? How do you know how far YOUR money will go when it comes to YOUR family. You're thinking of money as far as a broke college kid, not as a grown up that's responsible for people other than yourself. Many College towns are aware that much of the economy run off of students with no money. Once you're done with Dental school, you will likely move to a non-college town, right? If you still think that you want to have a family in a little apartment, you're nuts. First, you will need more space. LOTS more. Second, you will want to be in a better neighborhood. Like I said, it's not only yourself you are responsible for anymore. Third, you will need to reevaluate your budget. Do you have any idea how much kids cost?! Diapers, wipes, cream, formula/baby food, cribs, strollers, bouncers, car seats, play yards, toys, clothes that they constantly grow out of, shoes, haircuts...the list goes on and on.
Next, how about that health insurance? Now that you have a spouse and children, your premium will jump significantly. And kids get sick, a lot. Don't forget to buy the medicine!
living on $15K-$20K a year for a family of 4 falls within poverty guidelines. If after 8 years of school you are making 10 times that amount, but CHOOSE to subject your spouse and children to live in poverty well into your 30s for the sake of paying off a loan faster, it might be time to reevaluate your priorities. Don't claim that you think money isn't everything, yet you would choose to put their comfort second to the finances.
Stop thinking about budget like a 21 year old student with no other responsibilities except school, and start thinking about it like a grown up because that time will be here before you know it.

As we have said, 20K TAKE HOME pay, from the beginning we have said that. That is NOT federal poverty level, MAKING 19K is..which means your take home is a LOT less than that.

Sorry, but having 2 small children in a 2 bedroom apartment for a couple years is well worth the trade off for being debt free but even so, I can buy a smaller house, 1500 sq feet for what I can pay in rent around here. Who knows where I will live but looking around where I grew up and live and places I would like to live, I can EASILY find a nice 2 bedroom for $450. Comfort is relative and just because you can't figure out how to budget doesn't mean the rest of us can't. Health insurance and such will be business expenses so I'm not counting that into my take home pay. I'm not thinking like a 21 year old kid. Trust me, I've had this conversation with my mother many times, who happens to be a financial planner. We have run the numbers on assumed costs and in MY area, 20K take home is easy enough to get by on for a few years to pay down debt....this assuming that the market is such that it makes sense to put extra toward the loans. If I come out of dental school making $200,000/year, hip hip hooray!!!! then I'll adjust up but I will probably still sock most of that away or put it toward loans depending on the market. Look up time value of money....the earlier you can start putting money away and pay off debt the better off you will be long term.

 

[gucci]

Can't believe that this is still going on ^

 

[ClosetNerd828]

Dentistry : Individual results may vary.

Can this thread die now?

It just won't... DIE

 

[gucci]

It just won't... DIE

Looks like the only remaining option is to spirit bomb this thread, give me your energy! (Liking this post =raising your hands)

 

[gucci]

Need...more....energy!!!

 

[strep mutans]

I can buy a smaller house, 1500 sq feet for what I can pay in rent around here.

And where will you be getting the down payment? If I recall correctly, your parents are going to buy a house for you to live in during dental school, isn't that right? Don't forget about property taxes, home insurance, and maintenance/upkeep.

Many of you are looking at your budgets as "what expenses do I incur every month, and how much does one need to essentially live paycheck to paycheck"...which is not the way to live comfortably. Just ask anyone who does live paycheck to paycheck with no savings or emergency fund or parental safety net. What happens when you need a new tire, or a whole set? Battery, oil change, compressor goes out, etc.? What happens if you break your leg and need to pay that entire $6K+ high deductible at once? The low grocery budgets people are throwing around don't appear to include toiletries or home supplies. Clothes? What about gifts for others for mother's/father's day, birthdays, christmas? Everybody getting macaroni necklaces from you for the next 10 years?

Most importantly, I am afraid that those of you who think 15-20K/yr is so comfortable will unfairly judge your future patients for not being able to afford that root canal and crown.

Unless you can truly say you have tracked all of your expenses through something like mint.com and therefore know absolutely that you are living on 15-20K without any parental support, I really think some of you shouldn't be so strong in your assertions that it is comfortable. Possible? Yes, obviously. Comfortable or enjoyable? Not likely.

My last post here. Peace out.

 

[Mascota]

It's really sad that this discussion has turned into, "how much deprivation can I endure to pay for a dental education".......

Kinda speaks of the times we live in.

 

[ajj70]

And where will you be getting the down payment? If I recall correctly, your parents are going to buy a house for you to live in during dental school, isn't that right? Don't forget about property taxes, home insurance, and maintenance/upkeep.

Many of you are looking at your budgets as "what expenses do I incur every month, and how much does one need to essentially live paycheck to paycheck"...which is not the way to live comfortably. Just ask anyone who does live paycheck to paycheck with no savings or emergency fund or parental safety net. What happens when you need a new tire, or a whole set? Battery, oil change, compressor goes out, etc.? What happens if you break your leg and need to pay that entire $6K+ high deductible at once? The low grocery budgets people are throwing around don't appear to include toiletries or home supplies. Clothes? What about gifts for others for mother's/father's day, birthdays, christmas? Everybody getting macaroni necklaces from you for the next 10 years?

Most importantly, I am afraid that those of you who think 15-20K/yr is so comfortable will unfairly judge your future patients for not being able to afford that root canal and crown.

Unless you can truly say you have tracked all of your expenses through something like mint.com and therefore know absolutely that you are living on 15-20K without any parental support, I really think some of you shouldn't be so strong in your assertions that it is comfortable. Possible? Yes, obviously. Comfortable or enjoyable? Not likely.

My last post here. Peace out.

If I REALLY had an emergency and didn't have the money to pay for a Christmas present, I would not put as much extra toward a loan that month. What really scares me is how many people can't seem to live frugally for a couple years...WOW. What are you going to do if you break your leg and you spent all of your money buying a BMW so your spouse can be comfortable???? Keep in mind, I am making 200K so the funds would be there if needed. And again, TAKE home of 20K is about $2000/month take home...again, after loans. Can you REALLY not live on $2000/month with a $450/month house payment????

And yes, my parents have considered buying a house near where I go to dental school for an investment for THEM. It would likely be something with 3+ bedrooms, rent out the other rooms to cover the mortgage and yes, I would get to live there for free if they do that. Nice parents I have but they also have an investment property with a steady supply of renters. It all depends on where I end up and what the real estate market looks like then....

 

[gucci]

Its become an anime where the characters compete for who has the saddest back story

P.S.-I need at least 10 likes on that previous post to launch the spirit bomb

 

[midman19]

If I REALLY had an emergency and didn't have the money to pay for a Christmas present, I would not put as much extra toward a loan that month. What really scares me is how many people can't seem to live frugally for a couple years...WOW. What are you going to do if you break your leg and you spent all of your money buying a BMW so your spouse can be comfortable???? Keep in mind, I am making 200K so the funds would be there if needed. And again, TAKE home of 20K is about $2000/month take home...again, after loans. Can you REALLY not live on $2000/month with a $450/month house payment????

And yes, my parents have considered buying a house near where I go to dental school for an investment for THEM. It would likely be something with 3+ bedrooms, rent out the other rooms to cover the mortgage and yes, I would get to live there for free if they do that. Nice parents I have but they also have an investment property with a steady supply of renters. It all depends on where I end up and what the real estate market looks like then....

I think if we can learn one thing from OP its that in general you'll be lucky to be making 100k for the first 5 years out of school. With that said you might only have 20 k to live on so its a good thing you already have your plan hatched out of how you are going to make it work...

 

[gucci]

I still have my doubts that OP is a cut throat pre dent trying to get rid of potential competition

 

[Firm]

Only on SDN would people have conspiracy theories relating to posters trying to "get rid of potential competition". I literally can't believe how brainwashed everyone on this forum is. You guys are acting like ravenous dogs at trying to get into a 90k job. Every time someone brings up a reasonable fact about why Dentistry might not be a good choice, you guys counter with seemingly more and more insane "reasons".

It's like those one of those TV shoes where the contestant believes the sky is purple, and everyone keeps saying "no its blue", and the person responds with seemingly "correct", yet absolutly ludicrous reasons for why they're right. "Have you gotten your eyes checked? Different light reflects differentcolors. Are you wearing contact lenses? For me, the sky is purple, but if you're wearing contact lenses the sky might appear blue."


You guys are talking about living on 15k a year for the next decade - because "your time will come and you will make it big in dentistry". People here planning out what kind of cheap food they're going to buy, and what cheap products they're going to use, so that after 20 years of loan payments, they can "hit it big"

Have any of you looked outside?

Literally every other field you'll have a mid-career salary of over 100k (finance, software engineering, banking, marketing, engineering - the list goes on)



Exactly. Like - why the hell are you guys talking about your "master plan to live on 15k" and not about teeth? Not about Oral Health? You know - the ACTUAL reason you should be pursuing the field?


If you guys feel like "its a job where you don't have to worry about being laid off" - thats not exactly true. You'll just go out of business instead. So many people here go into dentistry thinking its Medicine's little brother. Its not. It is quite literally - a different field. If sales isn't your forte - get out now. You are promoting Oral Health. You will be selling all day. "Never stop closing". In dentistry, the term is "case acceptance" - you're selling a treatment plan to the patient that will benefit their oral health. The most successful dentists are the most extraverted ones - people that would have be found in another people-facing job to begin with.


Sometimes I wonder about the population of people that browse and post on SDN...

It's stress. Sometimes you don't think clearly when you are under stress.

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

Firm, you think it is better being a GP or Ortho? Thanks

 

[Incis0r]

Only on SDN would people have conspiracy theories relating to posters trying to "get rid of potential competition". I literally can't believe how brainwashed everyone on this forum is. You guys are acting like ravenous dogs at trying to get into a 90k job. Every time someone brings up a reasonable fact about why Dentistry might not be a good choice, you guys counter with seemingly more and more insane "reasons".

It's like those one of those TV shows where the contestant believes the sky is purple, and everyone keeps saying "no its blue", and the person responds with seemingly "correct", yet absolutly ludicrous reasons for why they're right. "Have you gotten your eyes checked? Different light reflects different colors. Are you wearing contact lenses? For me, the sky is purple, but if you're wearing contact lenses the sky might appear blue."


You guys are talking about living on 15k a year for the next decade - because "your time will come and you will make it big in dentistry". People here be planning out what kind of cheap food they're going to buy, and what cheap products they're going to use, so that after 20 years of loan payments, they can "hit it big"

Have any of you looked outside?

Literally every other field you'll have a mid-career salary of over 100k (finance, software engineering, banking, marketing, engineering - the list goes on)



Exactly. Like - why the hell are you guys talking about your "master plan to live on 15k" and not about teeth? Not about Oral Health? You know - the ACTUAL reason you should be pursuing the field?


If you guys feel like "its a job where you don't have to worry about being laid off" - thats not exactly true. You'll just go out of business instead. It feels like EVERY single person on here is going into dentistry because they think its Medicine's little brother. Its not. It is quite literally - a different field. If sales isn't your forte - get out now. You are promoting Oral Health. You will be selling all day. "Never stop closing". In dentistry, the term is "case acceptance" - you're selling a treatment plan to the patient that will benefit their oral health. The most successful dentists are the most extraverted ones - people that would have be found in another people-facing job to begin with.


Sometimes I wonder about the population of people that browse and post on SDN...

You have Dentist after Dentist after Dentist warning you to stay away. Dentists saying - if they were to start today, they wouldn't go. You have Dentists writing basically novels telling you straight up - whats wrong with the field. And people keep flocking like rabid hounds - its nuts.

I'm confused - like, are all your parents forcing you guys to be doctors or something? What gives? It's quite literally not normal. MOST people change majors, a couple times - most people switch jobs several times - switch fields even - to find something that suits them. Thats normal. But people on this form have this sort of rabid obsession into locking away their field for the rest of their lives - it's crazy.

Is everyone on here on drugs, and I'm the only one that's not? No seriously - I'm new to SDN, but Jesus Christ - I can't be the only one this is reading this thread with disbelief. Either I'm nuts, or this is a really great physiological example of "groupthink"...

I agree with what you said about groupthink AND pre-dents going into this field not prepared for what will hit them with 500K loans. I myself have posted similar things like what you just posted in the past.

But just a quick comment on the living on 20K/yr as a single person thing- since I am someone who is in favor of such a lifestyle, let me be clear- that's something I WANT to do, and I would do it even if I didn't have loans on me. I believe that, after food, water, shelter, and some comforts such as internet, etc., the most valuable thing a person can buy is financial independence- i.e. the ability to not be beholden to a job for income because they have invested over 70% of their take-home pay and can now live off of the interest on that alone. It is a tremendously liberating feeling to know that your bills will be paid for no matter what.

I'm sure you're aware that only 3% of dentists can retire at 60. Why is that? because they saved and invested NOTHING and could not sustain their standard of living if they quit working. They are tied to their jobs. Now, don't get me wrong, I do intend to work as a dentist after reaching Financial Independence. But it's much easier to enjoy your work knowing that you don't need the job for the money, but instead that you are doing the job for the pleasure of it.

There is a point beyond which money does not increase happiness. Once you have food, shelter, and some comfortable amenities in life such as internet, spending more money will not bring you much more happiness. They've done studies on this. Someone who spends $50K/month is not necessarily happier than someone who spends $3K/month. Instead, it's social connections at that point- Family, friends, etc- that raises happiness levels. This has been researched in great detail. The concept of Hedonic Adaptation is an offshoot of this phenomenon.

So that is the lifestyle that I was championing when I was in favor of living on 20K.