Do NOT, I repeat Do NOT go into this field

[air bud]

Maybe hire someone to make sure you don’t get the shaft in your contract??? Common sense???

No, this is the contract you and everyone else is offered. You want to live in that location you live and have family? That's the contract you take

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[de Ribas]

DO schools have even higher tuition and with more than 60% getting jobs in FM, PEDs, IM and other lowest paying specialties, I do not get why people advocate for DO to be a better financial decision than podiatry. Easier to find a job, I agree. Would these easy-to-find low-paying PCP jobs be necessarily better, Idk.

DOs come out with significantly higher debts and only a small percentage will earn more than 300k. I would agree that MD is better choice since tuition is lower, better residency options and so on.

 

[air bud]

Two of my co-residents had $270K+debt at the start of their 3rd year of residency. They both went to DMU which I would have said is the most affordable school (California students I met during 4th year were paying 3x my rent in Iowa). When I applied to podiatry school DMU's tuition was ..$27K. Its $36K now and the health insurance price appears to have doubled (we experienced painful increases throughout my time there). If tuition increases $1K a year which it seemed to do while I was there at the end of 4 years a student starting as the graduating class walks out the door will pay $16K more than they did not counting the tuition increases they'll also experience during their school.

270k? That's 18k a year just in interest at current Federal loan rates. Think about that. 1500 bucks a month just in interest. Let's say you are making 120k a year. Let's say 90k take home after taxes because you live in a high state tax state. That's 20 percent of your f***ing take home pay.

Listen I get it, it's all funny money when you're a student stuff gets real once you start making money.

 

[air bud]

DO schools have even higher tuition and with more than 60% getting jobs in FM, PEDs, IM and other lowest paying specialties, I do not get why people advocate for DO to be a better financial decision than podiatry. Easier to find a job, I agree. Would these easy-to-find low-paying PCP jobs be necessarily better, Idk.

DOs come out with significantly higher debts and only a small percentage will earn more than 300k. I would agree that MD is better choice since tuition is lower, better residency options and so on.

They have so many more options for loan payback. My employer was offering more than 250k a year, 75k retention bonus at 3 years, 100K student loan repayment and good vacation not much call etc and they can't find people because they are low offers. DOs have options to get literally all of their loans paid back by going to places like Indian health, state and federal rule programs. Mine is a private health system that has loan payback, but the government has so many more options that they do not give to podiatry.

on top of that, even if they're in a low paying field 200k but in a multi-specialty group or a hospital where they have good benefits, health insurance probably paid for maybe a cash-balance plan on top of 401k as well as an HSA offered through health insurance, their 200k is worth significantly more than your 120k. My first job out had health insurance paid for, they contributed 18k to 401k a year, had an HSA (stealth IRA that's an extra 7k tax deferred a year) Disability paid, 30 days PTO. That's worth a lot of money. You get diddly as a new associate. Go ahead and ask for that as a new associate and get laughed out of the interview

Long story short, equal salary pod vs DO job is NOT equal because the Benny's are completely ndifferent since will most likely be in an employed position with an MSG or hospital.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

They have so many more options for loan payback. My employer was offering more than 250k a year, 75k retention bonus at 3 years, 100K student loan repayment and good vacation not much call etc and they can't find people because they are low offers. DOs have options to get literally all of their loans paid back by going to places like Indian health, state and federal rule programs. Mine is a private health system that has loan payback, but the government has so many more options that they do not give to podiatry.

on top of that, even if they're in a low paying field 200k but in a multi-specialty group or a hospital where they have good benefits, health insurance probably paid for maybe a cash-balance plan on top of 401k as well as an HSA offered through health insurance, their 200k is worth significantly more than your 120k. My first job out had health insurance paid for, they contributed 18k to 401k a year, had an HSA (stealth IRA that's an extra 7k tax deferred a year) Disability paid, 30 days PTO. That's worth a lot of money. You get diddly as a new associate. Go ahead and ask for that as a new associate and get laughed out of the interview

Long story short, equal salary pod vs DO job is NOT equal because the Benny's are completely ndifferent since will most likely be in an employed position with an MSG or hospital.

it sounds like you're in the wrong profession! It's never too late to change though!

 

[DexterMorganSK]

All of these have a predictable standard starting salary.
Also you can easily match Anesthesia/EM as a DO. These two have always been DO friendly and you don't need to ace the boards to match them. Even Radiology is a good bet if you can score the median on step 1. You just have to ignore what your school is telling you and work on the path you're interested in. Most of my classmates want to just pass everything, get average and end up in EM. Yeah it's hard matching surgical specialties. But otherwise it's not just primary care or bust.
+ there's loan repayment options, won't have to convince the hospital about your rights etc. DO is better financially. It's just how it is.

Your future options are more paperwork & managing htn/cholesterol vs working like a dog in your young years then changing to something else as an EM doc (will be very hard to be a functional EM Doc in the 60s, $$ is great tho). Also, let's not forget how the NPs and PAs are there to grab every EM jobs while the CRNAs are for the Anes. Also, don't forget about all those DO schools opening every year while the number of residencies and the type of clinical work environment is a shi*storm, in addition to the MD vs DO stuff. I mean check out what's happening at LECOM.

In other words, every field has its ups and downs. And, no one here is saying if one field is better than others; BUT it all comes down to what the applicant wants to do with their lives. Let's not make a decision for them.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

This thread blew-way-out of proportion. Hopefully, it closes soon.

I suggest any current students or pre-pods to stop replying here; if you have a specific ques then make another thread. Thanks.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Your future options are more paperwork & managing htn/cholesterol vs working like a dog in your young years then changing to something else as an EM doc (will be very hard to be a functional EM Doc in the 60s, $$ is great tho). Also, let's not forget how the NPs and PAs are there to grab every EM jobs while the CRNAs are for the Anes. Also, don't forget about all those DO schools opening every year while the number of residencies and the type of clinical work environment is a shi*storm, in addition to the MD vs DO stuff. I mean check out what's happening at LECOM.

In other words, every field has its ups and downs. And, no one here is saying if one field is better than others; BUT it all comes down to what the applicant wants to do with their lives. Let's not make a decision for them.

None of the bolded refute the ROI of a DO degree. These concerns have been there for years if not decades. You're free to think that our futures are bleak if that helps you.
I'm simply pointing out the common misconception that's posted here that's all. DO doesn't = FM, IM, insert other low paying speciality. You can screw around in school and match Anesthesia/EM/may be radiology. You can easily make 220k as an IM hospitalist (and 300k if you wanna work like a dog). Salaries are more predictable in DO making it a safer bet.

 

[air bud]

This thread blew-way-out of proportion. Hopefully, it closes soon.

I suggest any current students or pre-pods to stop replying here; if you have a specific ques then make another thread. Thanks.

Lol

This isn't DO vs podiatry. This is about numbers. There is a significant cost to going into podiatry. I am making the argument that it's not worth it for a significant number of people. For you students chiming, wtf do you know? The real world is expensive. Debt, insurance, retirement, kids.....then rent/mortgage, car food....then you get to vacation, hobby, stupid stuff. If you have your priorities straight it will take years to get to the last couple

400k debt plus 200k no health insurance costs, considerable 401k match, maybe daycare free or discounted, ability.to work extra shifts and or locums, debt repayment

>

300k debt, 120k salary, crappy health insurance, no disability,.minimal 401k, have to bust your butt to even see enough patients.to make that and no locums/extra wor


But again it's not DO vs Podiatry. Let me put together a sample budget of what the real world is like living in a large metro area.

Paying off 300k debt making 150k a year in a high cost of living area with a family sounds like a miserable future.

 

[Podoosh]

Lol

This isn't DO vs podiatry. This is about numbers. There is a significant cost to going into podiatry. I am making the argument that it's not worth it for a significant number of people. For you students chiming, wtf do you know? The real world is expensive. Debt, insurance, retirement, kids.....then rent/mortgage, car food....then you get to vacation, hobby, stupid stuff. If you have your priorities straight it will take years to get to the last couple

400k debt plus 200k no health insurance costs, considerable 401k match, maybe daycare free or discounted, ability.to work extra shifts and or locums, debt repayment

>

300k debt, 120k salary, crappy health insurance, no disability,.minimal 401k, have to bust your butt to even see enough patients.to make that and no locums/extra wor


But again it's not DO vs Podiatry. Let me put together a sample budget of what the real world is like living in a large metro area.

Paying off 300k debt making 150k a year in a high cost of living area with a family sounds like a miserable future.

So if the debt isn’t an issue, would you still not recommend podiatry?

 

[air bud]

So if the debt isn’t an issue, would you still not recommend podiatry?

If you are dead set on medicine and have exhausted MD and DO...then maybe....

 

[CutsWithFury]

0 debt and will finish with 0 debt.

Thanks mom and dad

 

[Immense]

Thanks mom and dad

Why are u assuming his parents paid everything? Is it not possible that he got enough scholarship money and a part time job while studying at a reputable state school to graduate loan free?

 

[air bud]

0 debt and will finish with 0 debt.

Good for you, doesn't matter how or why. But I think we can all assume not the norm by any means

 

[Podstar]

Thanks mom and dad

Half of it is paid in scholarships/money I saved from working before starting, during undergrad. The other half is paid by my SO (sugar-momma) that makes 130k a year (not including bonus, incentives, health/dental/vision, 401k match, etc) and also has no debt. Not to mention, her work also sends us on two all expenses paid, extravagant, vacations per year. We both had full ride scholarships in undergrad.

 

[Weirdy]

Half of it is paid in scholarships/money I saved from working before starting, during undergrad. The other half is paid by my SO (sugar-momma) that makes 130k a year (not including bonus, incentives, health/dental/vision, 401k match, etc) and also has no debt. Not to mention, her work also sends us on two all expenses paid, extravagant, vacations per year. We both had full ride scholarships in undergrad.

Jesus.....

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Half of it is paid in scholarships/money I saved from working before starting, during undergrad. The other half is paid by my SO (sugar-momma) that makes 130k a year (not including bonus, incentives, health/dental/vision, 401k match, etc) and also has no debt. Not to mention, her work also sends us on two all expenses paid, extravagant, vacations per year. We both had full ride scholarships in undergrad.

Respect!

 

[air bud]

This thread blew-way-out of proportion. Hopefully, it closes soon.

I suggest any current students or pre-pods to stop replying here; if you have a specific ques then make another thread. Thanks.

No prepods should ask questions from someone who knows what they are talking about, not someone who doesn't or who has a conflict of interest in going into this field.

 

[air bud]

So if the debt isn’t an issue, would you still not recommend podiatry?

there may be some people that debt is not an issue for and that's great. It's still 7 years of your life. And there are still limitations in the field regardless of debt or how much you make. Honestly it's hard to know how well some people will respond to those. Me personally, I don't get too butt hurt when someone makes a comment about podiatry directly or indirectly. But 7 years is a long time.

 

[Immense]

there may be some people that debt is not an issue for and that's great. It's still 7 years of your life. And there are still limitations in the field regardless of debt or how much you make. Honestly it's hard to know how well some people will respond to those. Me personally, I don't get too butt hurt when someone makes a comment about podiatry directly or indirectly. But 7 years is a long time.

Forgive me if I miss some details or am not accurate, but 4 + 3 years of residency lands most medical physicians in the range of internal medicine/family medicine right? Aren't salaries for those careers still in the average range of a podiatrist's? What limitations are u referring to? I'm genuinely curious btw

 

[Nowehjose]

Half of it is paid in scholarships/money I saved from working before starting, during undergrad. The other half is paid by my SO (sugar-momma) that makes 130k a year (not including bonus, incentives, health/dental/vision, 401k match, etc) and also has no debt. Not to mention, her work also sends us on two all expenses paid, extravagant, vacations per year. We both had full ride scholarships in undergrad.

Y’all adopting?

 

[Podstar]

Y’all adopting?

Not unless we can't have our own kids for some reason.

 

[air bud]

Forgive me if I miss some details or am not accurate, but 4 + 3 years of residency lands most medical physicians in the range of internal medicine/family medicine right? Aren't salaries for those careers still in the average range of a podiatrist's? What limitations are u referring to? I'm genuinely curious btw

Pretty sure you have heard about scope of practice issues and how Ortho is constantly coming after podiatry and successfully limiting what can be done at both state local and individual level?

2 stories I have told before, I think I'm this thread:

Me - at my initial job, was not allowed to do ankle fractures Ortho did those even though the state allowed me to do so. More ridiculously, was not allowed to do Achilles tendon ruptures because the head of credentialing who was the president of my Medical group who is also the busiest ortho in the entire city and made a ton of money for the hospital decided that since Achilles rupture is were too hard for him, they had to be too hard for me. I was in a large multi-specialty group we would have made money off of surgery center fees imaging office visits etc, but I was required to send them out of the city and was not allowed to do them.

My friend:

Graduated from a very good residency program at the top of his class did one of the best two or three fellowships in the entire country has as much tar experience as a new graduate can have. Just spent over $1000000 buying a practice moving etcetera for what is very promising situation only to then find out that the hospital system which owns all of the hospitals in his area, is not going to allow him to have tar privileges.

These are not isolated incidents. ask people in New York Massachusetts Connecticut how they feel about scope of practice.

imagine busting your butt during school because you want to get the best residency the best possible training only to move someplace take a job and then find out that you're not going to be allowed to do something. It's one thing to choose not to do something, it's another thing to be told you can't do something.

The required board certification from the hospital says that you can do all of the procedures. The credentialing committee then decides that they're going to take that boards advice on certain procedures but not allow you to do other procedures.

And again we've talked about how uncommon hospital and multi-specialty group jobs with these 200k salaries are. There's no such thing as an internal medicine doctor having a 90k base with bonus where they may be hit 120 or 130 every year for the first few years. And again I've talked about how internal medicine and some of these other lower pain specialties are also always going to be parts of hospitals or multi specialty groups where the benefits package is at least 50 to 60 thousand a year so contrast that with a Podiatry job where they are very minimal. so there is no comparison in starting salaries between Podiatry and lower-paying Medical specialties.

 

[air bud]

Salaries are all over the map and thus bls data and other websites are completely worthless. Most of it comes from voluntary surveys vs mgma data from hsoptials which is required reporting. every graduating FM resident can expect to make 200 plus retention bonus signing bonus good benefits etc minimum day one. A graduating Podiatry resident at a minimum can expect to make a 90k base with bonus package of 30 to 35% bonus / 2 x to 3 x bass plus maybe a minimum three to 4% 401K match, no help with health insurance, minimal money for CME, minimal money for certification, no signing bonus, this is what they can expect at a minimum. the best a Podiatry resident graduating can expect for is the same package as an FM resident, around 200k but more and more common 225 to 245 k.

 

[SM761987]

This isn't the worst post to be honest. I think it's wise for pre-pods to look at the podiatry resident and podiatry attending forums to see the job outlook and general contract offers that exists out there!

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

Been a while since I posted here, still seeing the same ole podiatry student posting 2 years into their degree about salaries when they are still 5 + years away from it.

Podiatry was a joke to get into/still is. There is a good reason(s) for it.
1) The pay is ****
2) The pay is ****
3) Getting hired somewhere worthwhile living is a nightmare
4) The pay is ****

 

[Bigdog666]

I think this is an extremely healthy discussion given the sometimes hyper optimism on this forum. However, much of this thread revolves around finances. Tbh, don't come to a premed forum taking anecdotal finance advice as gospel (although any insight is appreciated) . As adults, do your research and either save/then apply or be extremely thorough when looking at loans/deferment/forgiveness etc.

Wishing happiness to you all.

 

[air bud]

I think this is an extremely healthy discussion given the sometimes hyper optimism on this forum. However, much of this thread revolves around finances. Tbh, don't come to a premed forum taking anecdotal finance advice as gospel (although any insight is appreciated) . As adults, do your research and either save/then apply or be extremely thorough when looking at loans/deferment/forgiveness etc.

Wishing happiness to you all.

This isn't financial advice, not telling you to put your money in penny stocks and municipal bonds. This is dollars and sense, accounting. Money in money out. And with the way podiatry and higher education is going, there is a mismatch about when it comes in and when it goes out. And it's hard to wrap your head around until you see the money going out part.

 

[DYK343]

This isn't financial advice, not telling you to put your money in penny stocks and municipal bonds. This is dollars and sense, accounting. Money in money out. And with the way podiatry and higher education is going, there is a mismatch about when it comes in and when it goes out. And it's hard to wrap your head around until you see the money going out part.

Loans do really suck. Really bad. All that money.... gone every month.

 

[cg2a93]

LOL, somethings never change. Heard the same exact things when I was thinking about going into Podiatry. Glad I did not listen. Keep your debt down, pick your area. You will be fine. Not a perfect profession, but none are.