Do NOT read "Heart Failure"

[getunconcsious]

I don't even know why it's posted in 'useful links'. It will make you want to change careers. I read it and I think I'm going to graduate school instead of medical school now. It's just depressing. If you want to remain optimistic at all, do NOT read this.

On an aside, for those that have read it, do you think it's really accurate? I mean, it seems like third year just can't be that bad. If it is, I'm quitting.

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[teh-t]

can you post the link?

 

[getunconcsious]

Here it is...but I'm telling you...you don't want to read it!

http://www.upalumni.org/medschool/

 

[amy2003uva]

Here it is...but I'm telling you...you don't want to read it!

http://www.upalumni.org/medschool/

your posting is the written equivalent of the Big Red Button... you have piqued everyone's interest by telling us NOT to read it. by doing this, you have encouraged 100s of people to, well, read it.

 

[spiridon]

I gather most of you here are pre-meds. I am a second year medical student and I would like to tell you my view of med school. It is hard, no question. You have to learn much more than you ever learned in undergrad, and a lot of it is blind memorization. But you feel the great sense of accomplishment with each year. Those books you read are exaggerations, just like those pre-med books that say you have to get As in every subject or books that say you'll forget when you last saw a movie or watched TV soon after you start your first year.

If you love medicine, medical school is a challenging but enjoyable experience. As second years, we also got our first taste of the clinics and there were quite a few friendly and helpful attendings and residents willing to teach us things. Deciding not to go to medical school after reading "Heart Failure" is like deciding never to take a shower after watching "Psycho" or never to camp in the woods after watching "The Blair Witch Project."

 

[Kazema]

I read Heart Failure earlier this year, and it really shocked me as well. But I think that even if it was exaggerated, it gives me another viewpoint of medicine (and a valuable one).

I think Heart Failure is recommended because it is a radically different account from what most of us have been hearing. I don't think it will completely crush your optimism, but it may take away the blind optimism. It'll make you aware that there's another side of medicine; that not everyone who enters the field happily becomes a doctor at the end of the road. Coming into the process my med student (and resident) friends were all telling me, "Oh definitely become a doctor, you'll absolutely love medicine, it's so great!" Reading Heart Failure kind of reminded me that it wasn't going to be perfect; there will be things I don't enjoy and practices I don't agree with. I may have to be prepared to see my humanism challenged and fight to keep my idealism intact.

It's not going to be all rainbows and apple pie, but it's also not going to be all doom and gloom. Don't let one account change your mind about the path you chose. Listen to every perspective and then make up your own mind.

 

[Zuwie]

This book applies to the 80s-early 90s. Most of it doesn't apply to 2005. Namely, you always need to get informed consent, you are always taught to treat patients as human beings, not as collection of symptoms, and a nutrition course is offered at most schools now. Plus, if you notice, "Heart Failure" has an obvious left-wing bias. Take what's in it with a grain of salt.

 

[Zuwie]

Oh, and 97% of the 1999 entering class graduated in 2003 at our school. And it's one of the tougher schools. That's to counter the notion that "ten percent drop out every year."

 

[tigress]

So of course after seeing this thread I went and took a look at this thing. I haven't gotten too far in, but already I'm wondering why all of the people I know in med school, and the young doctors, don't seem to have had the same horrible experience described. My brother-in-law in in 3rd year now, and while some rotations are better than others, he seems to be quite enjoying it. None of the stuff he describes is anything like in Heart Failure. I'm sure some people have horrible experiences, as this guy obviously did, but I would certainly take it with a huge grain of salt.

That said, it seems to be an interesting book (or whatever it is), and I plan on reading the rest.

 

[MedicineBird]

So of course after seeing this thread I went and took a look at this thing. I haven't gotten too far in, but already I'm wondering why all of the people I know in med school, and the young doctors, don't seem to have had the same horrible experience described. My brother-in-law in in 3rd year now, and while some rotations are better than others, he seems to be quite enjoying it. None of the stuff he describes is anything like in Heart Failure. I'm sure some people have horrible experiences, as this guy obviously did, but I would certainly take it with a huge grain of salt.

That said, it seems to be an interesting book (or whatever it is), and I plan on reading the rest.

I think it's a case of an idealist who, when hit with medschool, became an oversensitive pessemist.

 

[tigress]

I think it's a case of an idealist who, when hit with medschool, became an oversensitive pessemist.

Yes, and terribly self-righteous as well. He sort of writes as if he thinks he's God's gift to mankind. The whole bit about him listening to civil rights music and rallying against circumcision, and selflessly buying toys for the dying children while everybody else ignores them...it's all a bit much.

 

[45408]

that guy's going to be speaking at my school in a week. I glanced at the author and laughed. He's been e-mailing my pre-med student org to let him talk, but I don't have time to coordinate a guest speaker like him, but apparently another organization did.

 

[tigress]

As an update -- there's no way I'm reading the rest of this thing. It's horrible. It's total self-righteous rubbish. The basic theme: everybody in medicine is horrible except me, and I'm wonderful and I'm the only one who cares about the patients. I also don't believe a lot of the things he writes, and if they are true, they are certainly way off the norm.

bottom line: don't waste your time reading this cr*p

 

[45408]

on second thought, holy whiner batman. I read the first few pages of the pediatrics chapter, and some of this stuff must be in his imagination. My family has been in and out of many different clinics/specialists, and I've never heard of stuff like this.

 

[sacrament]

Some of "Heart Failure" rings true, as I near the end of my third year, but I suspect that it's B.S. to a large degree. Either that or his medical school is by far the most malignant institution in the United States.

I guess if you told the truth about 3rd year and wrote page after page of "today kinda sucked, got home late, sorta sleepy... could be worse" then nobody would bother reading it.

 

[tesla123]

As an update -- there's no way I'm reading the rest of this thing. It's horrible. It's total self-righteous rubbish. The basic theme: everybody in medicine is horrible except me, and I'm wonderful and I'm the only one who cares about the patients. I also don't believe a lot of the things he writes, and if they are true, they are certainly way off the norm.

bottom line: don't waste your time reading this cr*p

Whoa, is everything always this black and white on this board? One minute someone is saying how they empathize with the situation and that there is a good and bad side to medicine, in the next someone is completely writing the guy off. This stuff can be true. People don't have to be "oversensitive" to care the way that he does. While I agree that some parts are a bit extreme and that the author could have written about some of the positive experiences he had, these things do happen; if you choose to think that they don't, you too will have a rude awakening in the wards. By the way, how many of you, commenting about the author's self-righteousness, actually have clinical experience? I have seen very similar things in my experiences in medicine and this is what drives me to do medicine to the best of my ability- so that I may one day care for my patients without the apathy that sometimes results from the negativity one can experience in training.

I hope you guys can do the same.

 

[J1515]

Yes, and terribly self-righteous as well. He sort of writes as if he thinks he's God's gift to mankind. The whole bit about him listening to civil rights music and rallying against circumcision, and selflessly buying toys for the dying children while everybody else ignores them...it's all a bit much.

I agree. I got more and more annoyed at this guy as I read on. I'm sorry, but there are times when you just keep your mouth shut and do as you're told and respect people who are "above" you in the world, even if you don't agree with them. I think he said he had gone straight from high school to college to med school. Let him work a few years in the real world between undergrad and med school and see if he still had that same annoying idealistic attitude. It sounds like he fantasized about how the outside (outside of school) world was or should be and he got a cold dose of reality when he actually got there.

Prowler, you should show up to his lecture with a big sign that says "STOP WHINING."

 

[MedicineBird]

Whoa, is everything always this black and white on this board? One minute someone is saying how they empathize with the situation and that there is a good and bad side to medicine, in the next someone is completely writing the guy off. This stuff can be true. People don't have to be "oversensitive" to care the way that he does. While I agree that some parts are a bit extreme and that the author could have written about some of the positive experiences he had, these things do happen; if you choose to think that they don't, you too will have a rude awakening in the wards. By the way, how many of you, commenting about the author's self-righteousness, actually have clinical experience? I have seen very similar things in my experiences in medicine and this is what drives me to do medicine to the best of my ability- so that I may one day care for my patients without the apathy that sometimes results from the negativity one can experience in training.

I hope you guys can do the same.

Thanks for your concern but I stand by my assessment. I've worked in healthcare for the last 6 years at physicians' right hand. Trust me -- I am not in for a rude awakening. Sure this stuff and worse (I promise) happens. That's the nature of the beast and self righteous whining does no one any good. If he dislikes the environment so much, he should have become an underwater basket weaver. You've gotta be resilliant to malignant environments when you decide to step onto this dance floor. It doesn't mean we think in terms of black and white or that we are apathetic about the needs of our patients. It's about being a realist.

 

[Zuwie]

As an update -- there's no way I'm reading the rest of this thing. It's horrible. It's total self-righteous rubbish. The basic theme: everybody in medicine is horrible except me, and I'm wonderful and I'm the only one who cares about the patients. I also don't believe a lot of the things he writes, and if they are true, they are certainly way off the norm.

bottom line: don't waste your time reading this cr*p

The guy is like a medical Michael Moore.

 

[getunconcsious]

Hmmm...well it sounds as though you all think most of it isn't true, which is heartening. I must say, although it was horrifying when I read it, I was a bit cynical because I'd never heard a firsthand account of things being *that* atrocious. Maybe the guy is a bit self-righteous, but some of the situations he described I don't think I could live with (i.e. the 93-year old woman left to die in her own feces, the practicing of pelvic exams on anesthetized women). So I'm glad to hear it's not entirely true. After I read it I looked through some of the threads on the clinical rotation board and no one seemed to be recounting anything egregious...just garden variety overworking and neglect here and there, which is unfortunate, but certainly expected. Thanks for all the input.

 

[Medikit]

I read Heart Failure earlier this year, and it really shocked me as well. But I think that even if it was exaggerated, it gives me another viewpoint of medicine (and a valuable one).

I think Heart Failure is recommended because it is a radically different account from what most of us have been hearing. I don't think it will completely crush your optimism, but it may take away the blind optimism. It'll make you aware that there's another side of medicine; that not everyone who enters the field happily becomes a doctor at the end of the road. Coming into the process my med student (and resident) friends were all telling me, "Oh definitely become a doctor, you'll absolutely love medicine, it's so great!" Reading Heart Failure kind of reminded me that it wasn't going to be perfect; there will be things I don't enjoy and practices I don't agree with. I may have to be prepared to see my humanism challenged and fight to keep my idealism intact.

It's not going to be all rainbows and apple pie, but it's also not going to be all doom and gloom. Don't let one account change your mind about the path you chose. Listen to every perspective and then make up your own mind.

I like your take on it.

 

[Spiff]

Whoa, is everything always this black and white on this board? One minute someone is saying how they empathize with the situation and that there is a good and bad side to medicine, in the next someone is completely writing the guy off.

I was inclined to agree with you until I actually read the material in question. Sure, there are things which can and must be improved in medicine, but this "Heart Failure" thing is mainy one big bitter whine-fest by someone with a personal political agenda. My third year experience was nothing like he describes. No it is not all sweetness and roses. Yes it is work at times. Yes the practice of medicine is different than the conjured images of pop culture. It is much more messy. But it is also more exciting, fulfilling, and enlightneing at times too. On the whole, I found it to be an incredible relief from the drudgery of the first two years of basic sciences. A lot of Gregers complaint's are just bitter, unjustified invective ... I mean criticizing the residents choice of shoe color? He's bitter because someone didn't appreciate him wearing buttons with political messages around? Come on.

He spouts a lot of pontification on empathy, but he apparently has zilch for the people whose world he is entering. There is no attempt to understand the dynamics going on here or anything which runs against to his counterculture political views. It is all about pronouncing judgement. Tolerance is something for others to practice. I also find it incredibly curious that when he reports his evaluation comments accross rotations, he consistently gets dinged for poor patient interaction skills. Of course he "laughs" this off as merely the product of mean attendings who themselves couldn't communicate with a rock, without ever stopping to consider that maybe he was daydreaming about rolling naked in mother earth's bosom when he should have been talking to his patients. He also blithely dismisses the written apology from one of his surgeon attendings as "forced" by the dean, with nothing to back up this assertion. He is going to protest a particular issue at graduation, but when the administration capitualtes (for whatever reason) he simply chooses another issue to protest.

Whatever you views are, this is not an objective look at medical education.

 

[8744]

Yes, and terribly self-righteous as well. He sort of writes as if he thinks he's God's gift to mankind. The whole bit about him listening to civil rights music and rallying against circumcision, and selflessly buying toys for the dying children while everybody else ignores them...it's all a bit much.

Rallying against circumcision? Har har. I guess everybody has their issue.

Seriously, I didn't read the book but I read some of the excerpts and some of the commentary. I want to be the first to reassure those of you just starting that medical school is nothing like that guy's experience.

Now, if you come into it with a "Patch Adams" mentality you are going to be disappointed and disillusioned. No question about it. On the other hand most of us are a little more realistic about medical school so we have no problems.

I have to laugh at the notion that anybody is afraid of being abused by their residents. Let me also be the first to reassure you that you do not have to take any crap from anybody in medical school. Sure, you might find it less trouble to endure the biting sarcasm of your attending then to make an issue out of it every time your feelings are hurt but in the end, if you ever feel like you were abused just report it to the proper authorities at your school and see how fast the abusive resident will get back in line.

I had a resident curse at me once...once. I don't mind bad language, of course, but not if it is directed at me in anything but a good-natured way. I took the guy aside and gently reminded him how stupid he was going to look standing in front of his department head explaining why he felt it necessary to call me names. That's all it took and he was the soul of politeness after that.

Realistically, you are just going to have to endure a lot of sarcasm at your expense as a third year medical student. Usually it is appropriate to the situation and richly deserved. I am just pointing out that if you ever feel that your chastisement crosses the line from justified to abusive you have every right in the world and an obligation to put a stop to it.

I realize this will be hard to do when you first start third year. We are all a little intimidated at the start of our clinical years.

 

[45408]

The guy is like a medical Michael Moore.

 

[rockstar2525]

I could only read the first two sections of this before I was ready to find the kid and slap him into reality myself. I'd like to point out two things; he mentions in the preface that he entered third year HAVING NO CLINICAL EXPERIENCE. He also talks about spending his 25th b-day in surgery rotation (3rd yr), meaning he had to have gone right from high school to college to med school. This kid clearly went to some hippy college where he learned how to exist in a liberal touchy feely bubble and has no clue what the real world is like. He had no exposure to medicine before entering med school, so he went in with a self rightous niavite that didn't do him well when he got into rotations.

I think most people on this board have done some clinical time and have a little bit better idea of what medicine is really like. Sure some it sucks, but that is true of ANY profession.

 

[tesla123]

I was inclined to agree with you until I actually read the material in question. Sure, there are things which can and must be improved in medicine, but this "Heart Failure" thing is mainy one big bitter whine-fest by someone with a personal political agenda. My third year experience was nothing like he describes. No it is not all sweetness and roses. Yes it is work at times. Yes the practice of medicine is different than the conjured images of pop culture. It is much more messy. But it is also more exciting, fulfilling, and enlightneing at times too. On the whole, I found it to be an incredible relief from the drudgery of the first two years of basic sciences. A lot of Gregers complaint's are just bitter, unjustified invective ... I mean criticizing the residents choice of shoe color? He's bitter because someone didn't appreciate him wearing buttons with political messages around? Come on.

He spouts a lot of pontification on empathy, but he apparently has zilch for the people whose world he is entering. There is no attempt to understand the dynamics going on here or anything which runs against to his counterculture political views. It is all about pronouncing judgement. Tolerance is something for others to practice. I also find it incredibly curious that when he reports his evaluation comments accross rotations, he consistently gets dinged for poor patient interaction skills. Of course he "laughs" this off as merely the product of mean attendings who themselves couldn't communicate with a rock, without ever stopping to consider that maybe he was daydreaming about rolling naked in mother earth's bosom when he should have been talking to his patients. He also blithely dismisses the written apology from one of his surgeon attendings as "forced" by the dean, with nothing to back up this assertion. He is going to protest a particular issue at graduation, but when the administration capitualtes (for whatever reason) he simply chooses another issue to protest.

Whatever you views are, this is not an objective look at medical education.

Thanks spiff, of the multiple replies I have had to my post, yours is the most valid.

 

[gujuDoc]

As someone whom has known several med students over the years, I can tell you that while it is tough, the thing that most of them have said to me in the past, is that they wouldn't change their mind and would do it all over again if they had to.

One of the fourth year med students from UF med school spoke earlier this year and told us that they even had organizations and counseling sorts of support groups for when med students start to go through rotations and encounter things like their first terminally ill patient, so that they have an outlet to let their emotions out and not just bottle them up inside.

I took a look at that website, and it said that guy had had no prior clinical experience before 3rd year of med school. That is probably why he didn't realize what real world medicine was like.

Frankly, I have shadowed several physicians over the years. Additionally, several family friends are physicians. The physicians I have shadowed, have very well treated the patients properly. In one instance, there was a patient whom was a cook, and so the doctor, whom mind you was a former cook himself, started talking about trivial things like what they did in restaurants.

Little things like that do occur, and the patients do truly like the doctor that I shadow currently. Same can be said about the past physicians I have observed.

As far as my family friends, on occassion my parents have run across people asking if we were related to them somehow or knew them. And when we say that we know these particular physicians, they generally have great things to say to us about them.

So my feeling is that this guy had the image of NBC's ER, rather than real world medicine prior to going into it.

 

[eulogia228]

Rallying against circumcision? Har har. I guess everybody has their issue.

Seriously, I didn't read the book but I read some of the excerpts and some of the commentary. I want to be the first to reassure those of you just starting that medical school is nothing like that guy's experience.

Now, if you come into it with a "Patch Adams" mentality you are going to be disappointed and disillusioned. No question about it. On the other hand most of us are a little more realistic about medical school so we have no problems.

I have to laugh at the notion that anybody is afraid of being abused by their residents. Let me also be the first to reassure you that you do not have to take any crap from anybody in medical school. Sure, you might find it less trouble to endure the biting sarcasm of your attending then to make an issue out of it every time your feelings are hurt but in the end, if you ever feel like you were abused just report it to the proper authorities at your school and see how fast the abusive resident will get back in line.

I had a resident curse at me once...once. I don't mind bad language, of course, but not if it is directed at me in anything but a good-natured way. I took the guy aside and gently reminded him how stupid he was going to look standing in front of his department head explaining why he felt it necessary to call me names. That's all it took and he was the soul of politeness after that.

Realistically, you are just going to have to endure a lot of sarcasm at your expense as a third year medical student. Usually it is appropriate to the situation and richly deserved. I am just pointing out that if you ever feel that your chastisement crosses the line from justified to abusive you have every right in the world and an obligation to put a stop to it.

I realize this will be hard to do when you first start third year. We are all a little intimidated at the start of our clinical years.

I can't believe this. The braindead resident actually cursed at you and called you names? How many people were around when he did this? I know that it is easy to lose one's temper in a high-stress/pressure situation, but calling a student derogatory names and cursing at them is just unprofessional and reeks of adolescent/pre-pubescent behavior. I would've just gone ahead and filed a complaint with the appropriate authority immediately.

P.S.: That resident should do the gene pool a favor and just castrate himself. I can't think of any better way to kiss one's job goodbye then to curse at one's colleagues (even if they are subordinate to you in the hierarchy).

 

[superdevil]

Yes, and terribly self-righteous as well. He sort of writes as if he thinks he's God's gift to mankind. The whole bit about him listening to civil rights music and rallying against circumcision, and selflessly buying toys for the dying children while everybody else ignores them...it's all a bit much.

agreed. very self-righteous. did you read the "about the author" section? its f**king hilarious. he talks about how he withdrew from tufts' MSTP and in his letter he must have quoted 10 or 12 radicals from the 1960s. this guy also reminds me of SDN in a way--with his blind i'm-going-to-save-the-entire-world pompous idealism.

i know medicine isn't all rainbows and gumdrops. that's the reality of it. but reading this guy's stuff....i can't describe how it makes me feel. its like i'm laughing, and yet, angry.

i'll pass.

 

[superdevil]

he mentions in the preface that he entered third year HAVING NO CLINICAL EXPERIENCE. He also talks about spending his 25th b-day in surgery rotation (3rd yr), meaning he had to have gone right from high school to college to med school. This kid clearly went to some hippy college where he learned how to exist in a liberal touchy feely bubble and has no clue what the real world is like. He had no exposure to medicine before entering med school, so he went in with a self rightous niavite that didn't do him well when he got into rotations.

i totally agree and am pleasantly surprised that so many people on the normally touchy-feely pre-allo board have seen through this guy's pouting.

 

[getunconcsious]

Rallying against circumcision? Har har. I guess everybody has their issue.

Seriously, I didn't read the book but I read some of the excerpts and some of the commentary. I want to be the first to reassure those of you just starting that medical school is nothing like that guy's experience.

Now, if you come into it with a "Patch Adams" mentality you are going to be disappointed and disillusioned. No question about it. On the other hand most of us are a little more realistic about medical school so we have no problems.

I have to laugh at the notion that anybody is afraid of being abused by their residents. Let me also be the first to reassure you that you do not have to take any crap from anybody in medical school. Sure, you might find it less trouble to endure the biting sarcasm of your attending then to make an issue out of it every time your feelings are hurt but in the end, if you ever feel like you were abused just report it to the proper authorities at your school and see how fast the abusive resident will get back in line.

I had a resident curse at me once...once. I don't mind bad language, of course, but not if it is directed at me in anything but a good-natured way. I took the guy aside and gently reminded him how stupid he was going to look standing in front of his department head explaining why he felt it necessary to call me names. That's all it took and he was the soul of politeness after that.

Realistically, you are just going to have to endure a lot of sarcasm at your expense as a third year medical student. Usually it is appropriate to the situation and richly deserved. I am just pointing out that if you ever feel that your chastisement crosses the line from justified to abusive you have every right in the world and an obligation to put a stop to it.

I realize this will be hard to do when you first start third year. We are all a little intimidated at the start of our clinical years.

I think you'd have to endure biting sarcasm from higher-ups just after entering ANY field, not just medicine. I've seen in happen in research. What I was concerned about was the incidence of outright abuse that this guy cites. He busted out some statistics about students who were so severely injured by attendings and residents that they had to seek medical attention. But I'm starting to believe that his account is probably a gross exaggeration....He makes it sound as though medical school is your own personal hell and also makes you believe that you WILL become a horrible, unfeeling person if you go to medical school. I guess I'm dumb for entertaining it, but like I say, I was skeptical from the beginning.

 

[8744]

I can't believe this. The braindead resident actually cursed at you and called you names? How many people were around when he did this? I know that it is easy to lose one's temper in a high-stress/pressure situation, but calling a student derogatory names and cursing at them is just unprofessional and reeks of adolescent/pre-pubescent behavior. I would've just gone ahead and filed a complaint with the appropriate authority immediately.

P.S.: That resident should do the gene pool a favor and just castrate himself. I can't think of any better way to kiss one's job goodbye then to curse at one's colleagues (even if they are subordinate to you in the hierarchy).

He was just a little high strung and got a little excited at my lack of knowledge or concern while being pimped. Nothing to get worked up over.

We had our man-to-man talk and that was the end of it.

My only point was that you don't have to take abuse from anybody, let alone some little intern with male PMS.

 

[8744]

OK. I just browsed through the book.


Man, that guy is seriously deranged.

 

[8744]

I think you'd have to endure biting sarcasm from higher-ups just after entering ANY field, not just medicine. I've seen in happen in research. What I was concerned about was the incidence of outright abuse that this guy cites. He busted out some statistics about students who were so severely injured by attendings and residents that they had to seek medical attention. But I'm starting to believe that his account is probably a gross exaggeration....He makes it sound as though medical school is your own personal hell and also makes you believe that you WILL become a horrible, unfeeling person if you go to medical school. I guess I'm dumb for entertaining it, but like I say, I was skeptical from the beginning.

The worst thing that will happen to you in medical school is you will sometimes be bored and you will sometimes feel like a complete idiot. This is a normal part of training for any profession.

The guy's account of medical school is not just a gross exaggeration, it is an outright fabrication from a guy who, if you can believe what he writes, is teetering on the brink of psychosis. (Paranoid delusions, perhaps.)

I especially liked the part where he claims a residency program called his school and asked that he be disciplined for cancelling a residency interview.

Dude, it is just not like that. Program directors don't want to interview you if you don't want to rank their program and I am absolutely sure that no PD has ever called any medical students school because they were mad about a cancellation.

The guy is a loon.

 

[medstyle]

being a doctor is not for everyone. this guy should have realized that and dropped out. Sometimes, you have to put up BS to do something productive. Actually, thats true most of the time. This guy is just way too sensitive.

 

[Spiff]

I especially liked the part where he claims a residency program called his school and asked that he be disciplined for cancelling a residency interview.

Dude, it is just not like that. Program directors don't want to interview you if you don't want to rank their program and I am absolutely sure that no PD has ever called any medical students school because they were mad about a cancellation.

Actually, I know several people who received interview acceptance letters wich stated that the residency program would contact the applicant's dean if the applicant no-showed, or cancelled at the last minute. This was more of a complaint lodged against a rude student rather than trying to get the school to "punish" the student.

I only heard of a couple of cases like that, but it seems at least reasonable to me. Cancelling at the last minute likely means you have denied someone else from having a shot at that residency position and it also means that the program has fewer applicants to choose from. This is especially true for smaller programs which may only interview a few people each year. So it is no wonder that a program would be upset about a last minute cancellation. With that said, it isn't like a program complaining about a cancel is going to get you kicked out of school or anything.

The guy is a loon.

I can't comment on anyone's experiences but my own. However, several of his experiences seem pretty far-fetched to say the least, and most just sound like one-sided sour grapes.

 

[8744]

Actually, I know several people who received interview acceptance letters wich stated that the residency program would contact the applicant's dean if the applicant no-showed, or cancelled at the last minute. This was more of a complaint lodged against a rude student rather than trying to get the school to "punish" the student.

I only heard of a couple of cases like that, but it seems at least reasonable to me. Cancelling at the last minute likely means you have denied someone else from having a shot at that residency position and it also means that the program has fewer applicants to choose from. This is especially true for smaller programs which may only interview a few people each year. So it is no wonder that a program would be upset about a last minute cancellation. With that said, it isn't like a program complaining about a cancel is going to get you kicked out of school or anything.

Fair enough. I also think it depends on how you cancel. I imagine that this guy has left a wide swath of rudeness and hurt feelings in his wake.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to cancel, even at the last minute. The cool thing about residency application is that it is just a job interview. You are a potential employee and they are a prospective employer. I have canceled job interviews in the "real" world at the last minute and I would think it strange if anybody made a big deal out of it.

 

[gujuDoc]

I just wanted to say that this guy should not even have continued on residency if he hated being a doctor soooooo much. Maybe he should just do somethng else after he gets serious counseling.

 

[beastmaster]

I think that its an excellent book -- a must-read, if you will. I can hear you guys yelling, "how can this be a must read, if the author's perspective is so harsh??" Well, it's an intellectually rewarding antidote to the naivete and idealism that is its antithesis.

Too many are so self-righteous that they will turn insane over one man's opinion -- HOW DARE he go into medicine int he first place. Well, it was his choice to enter, and his choice to exit; he is a better man for it.

I made my decision to go to medical school. I want to enjoy all of the ups and experience all the downs. If extreme circumstances compel a career change, so be it. Med school is not a gateway to some exclusive save-the-world club. It's an opportunity to explore a challenging career and make decisions accordingly.

The author of this book explored a potential career and made the necessary life changes. If you look at the biography of many of the world's successful individuals, they begin much the same way.

Frankly, I don't know how the original poster can be so arrogant in an attempt to deny this valuable resource to prospective medical students. Hopefully, this will just call attention to the book and encourage more readers.

 

[8744]

I think that its an excellent book -- a must-read, if you will. I can hear you guys yelling, "how can this be a must read, if the author's perspective is so harsh??" Well, it's an intellectually rewarding antidote to the naivete and idealism that is its antithesis.

Too many are so self-righteous that they will turn insane over one man's opinion -- HOW DARE he go into medicine int he first place. Well, it was his choice to enter, and his choice to exit; he is a better man for it.

I made my decision to go to medical school. I want to enjoy all of the ups and experience all the downs. If extreme circumstances compel a career change, so be it. Med school is not a gateway to some exclusive save-the-world club. It's an opportunity to explore a challenging career and make decisions accordingly.

The author of this book explored a potential career and made the necessary life changes. If you look at the biography of many of the world's successful individuals, they begin much the same way.

Frankly, I don't know how the original poster can be so arrogant in an attempt to deny this valuable resource to prospective medical students. Hopefully, this will just call attention to the book and encourage more readers.

You're pulling our legs, right?

Dude, the author of the book is clinically insane. Consequently, other than entertainment he has nothing of value to offer to a newly matriculated medical student.

Now, I know that everybody's medical school experience is different. But the author's experience, from what I can tell by reading, is an on-going paranoid delusion.

Either that or it is a paen to immaturity and selfishness. Perhaps the most self-serving, non-introspective book I have ever read.

 

[getunconcsious]

I think that its an excellent book -- a must-read, if you will. I can hear you guys yelling, "how can this be a must read, if the author's perspective is so harsh??" Well, it's an intellectually rewarding antidote to the naivete and idealism that is its antithesis.

Too many are so self-righteous that they will turn insane over one man's opinion -- HOW DARE he go into medicine int he first place. Well, it was his choice to enter, and his choice to exit; he is a better man for it.

I made my decision to go to medical school. I want to enjoy all of the ups and experience all the downs. If extreme circumstances compel a career change, so be it. Med school is not a gateway to some exclusive save-the-world club. It's an opportunity to explore a challenging career and make decisions accordingly.

The author of this book explored a potential career and made the necessary life changes. If you look at the biography of many of the world's successful individuals, they begin much the same way.

Frankly, I don't know how the original poster can be so arrogant in an attempt to deny this valuable resource to prospective medical students. Hopefully, this will just call attention to the book and encourage more readers.

LOL, dude, in order for it to be a 'valuable resource', it would have to be TRUE, which it appears it is not. Sorry to burst your bubble. And most of the world's most successful people got into a field, whined about it, and then changed careers? I must have missed that revealation.

 

[Jeff05]

i know people like the author. they're the kind of person that refuse to accept reality and function at a level of idealism that is actually detrimental. they have poor social skills and are actually quite depressed.

his stories are unilateral and dramatize ordinarily benign events to absurd proportions.

for example, his pediatric chapter. he calls the learning process as "Self-interest disguised as selfless service," but offers no explanation on how to actually change the system... how does he propose one learns to do procedures or to PRACTICE medicine? i guarantee that if patients were given the choice between an attending doing their kid's spinal tap vs. an intern ALL would choose an attending...but, how will the intern learn? (yea, you can practice on models...but the real thing is different.) .....

1 kid in my class walked out from a rotation during 3rd year. for me, studying for step 1 was the most emotionally taxing time. 3rd year is actually interesting most of the time..until it gets boring...but then 4th year arrives and all is great.

i don't know ANYONE in my class that isn't happy as $hit right now. everyone thought it was worth it and are looking forward to residency. why? because most intelligent people realize that medicine is not a pure, absolutely decent, altruistic enterprise. one just has to do the best he can.

IGNORE, please, IGNORE this book. he has pulled quotes from some of the most deeply disturbed and depressed people in history and many others out of context.

if you do read it, view it as an anecdotal account - ONE person's distored and troubled opinion.

 

[funshine]

so i finally checked out this thread.

Yeah, I actually read Heart Failure in high school (I did not even remember that was what it was called), and rejected medicine for a year or so, but obviously that changed.

It's strangely inspirational in a way. Here's why: if a guy as depressed and emotionally messed up as the author can still make it through med school and all that, then I can too.

 

[beastmaster]

LOL, dude, in order for it to be a 'valuable resource', it would have to be TRUE, which it appears it is not. Sorry to burst your bubble. And most of the world's most successful people got into a field, whined about it, and then changed careers? I must have missed that revealation.

Bubble? You've attended how much medical school? Oh that's right, none -- Mr. "CLASS OF 2009". Period, end of story. Talk to me about what "appears" or doesn't appear to be true in 3 years.

My only driving point is that there is much a pre-med can learn and enjoy from the book, provided they read it critically and with an open mind. If someone wants to argue against that, don't address those arguments to me but to a brick wall because you're an idiot. I'm not trying to defend the validitiy of the book's central thesis, only its entertainment value and insight into the author's psyche.

And maybe do your own research about which successful people dropped out of a school (note: medical school is not a field/career but a school) to pursue a peripheral or completely different path. You'll be surprised how silly you sounded for doubting me on this.

 

[getunconcsious]

Bubble? You've attended how much medical school? Oh that's right, none -- Mr. "CLASS OF 2009". Period, end of story. Talk to me about what "appears" or doesn't appear to be true in 3 years.

My only driving point is that there is much a pre-med can learn and enjoy from the book, provided they read it critically and with an open mind. If someone wants to argue against that, don't address those arguments to me but to a brick wall because you're an idiot. I'm not trying to defend the validitiy of the book's central thesis, only its entertainment value and insight into the author's psyche.

And maybe do your own research about which successful people dropped out of a school (note: medical school is not a field/career but a school) to pursue a peripheral or completely different path. You'll be surprised how silly you sounded for doubting me on this.

Well I did read it with an open mind! I started the thread to ask people if what the author described actually happened or not. I have yet to see even one person post something corroborating his tales of egregious misconduct. Have you been to medical school? And if so, did you see anything as bad as he described? I don't really care about the book's entertainment value, I want to know if it's true or not!

Geez, sorry for being confused and reaching out for help with career choices!

 

[8744]

Here is my favorite quote from "Heart Failure:"


"I got an Email last night. The first nine words out of my mouth were Oh my God; oh my God. Oh my God. What a way to end the year. Dr. S - . Surgeon Dr. S - ! I had written pages about him on my evaluation form - how he should be removed from faculty, a rant bordering on restraining-order/you'll-hear-from-my-attorney. And I signed it. Then five months later..."


Har har. he wrote "pages and pages" on an evaluation form. Man. Talk about compulsive.

I had an attending who was somewhat snotty to me. You know what I wrote on the evaluation form? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I just filled in the bubbles and turned it in with my shelf exam.

Presumably, if you are a normal person after a rotation you just don't care especially since you will never be in that attendings team again. In my case I saw the guy in Wal Mart. He recognized me and I had a brief but very pleasant conversation with him in which I studiously called him by his first name and treated him with a familiarity which probably burned his ass.

I even commented that even though he was several years younger than me I still have all of my hair. (Although it is turning gray)

What could he do? One thing many of you need to realize is that we are all men (and woman) and for all the intimidation you might feel, medical school is not the boot camp. There is no regulation or rule that obligates you to snap to attention and scurry around for someone just because he is a physician. I treat my attendings with respect and deference because I am a polite guy and they are generally very polite to me. On the other hand I am pretty polite and respectful to the cleaning ladies and the LPNs.

I was, like everybody else, a little intimidated at the start of third year but now I just try to treat everybody from attending to intern with politeness, affability, and humor. I just don't get worked up over somebody else's lack of good manners.

I don't even get flustered anymore if I don't know the answer to some pimp question like I did last year. Now, if I don't know the answer I just smile politely and admit my ignorance.

Who cares? I'm going to graduate in three months whether or not I know the complication rate for heart caths. Why get worked up over it?

The author of "Heart Attack," on the other hand, gets worked up over every little thing.

 

[8744]

Well I did read it with an open mind! I started the thread to ask people if what the author described actually happened or not. I have yet to see even one person post something corroborating his tales of egregious misconduct. Have you been to medical school? And if so, did you see anything as bad as he described? I don't really care about the book's entertainment value, I want to know if it's true or not!

Geez, sorry for being confused and reaching out for help with career choices!

The author of "Heart Attack" is engaging in pure confabulation. While it is true that medical school can be difficult and physicians can sometimes appear callous, the level of abuse he claims to have sustained in medical school is to severe to believe.

Don't sweat it. Medical school is not perfect but on the whole, most people enjoy it even if they are glad when it is over.

 

[Furrball]

You're pulling our legs, right?

Dude, the author of the book is clinically insane. Consequently, other than entertainment he has nothing of value to offer to a newly matriculated medical student.

Insanity is a legal term, not a medical term. In any case I'm amazed that any of you read it all. I followed that inital link and skimmed two paragraphs and knew it for crap. I think he is a stuck-up hypocrite and a git.

 

[Furrball]

Well I did read it with an open mind! I started the thread to ask people if what the author described actually happened or not. I have yet to see even one person post something corroborating his tales of egregious misconduct. Have you been to medical school? And if so, did you see anything as bad as he described? I don't really care about the book's entertainment value, I want to know if it's true or not!

Have I seen things that should not have happened? Yes. Have I seen communiations between specialties break down and have patients suffer for it? Yes. Have a seen any major, or for that point minor, ethically dubious actions? No. Believe it or not most physicians and surgeons go into medicine with at least some thought of helping other people. It may not be their first reason, but it is probably in the top three.

For the most part, when you read posts by medical students in their clinical years we seem to be enjoying ourselves. Even more realistic books like the House of God are reflective of a past time in medicine. Although I would recommend that book just for the 10 Rules of the Fat Man. But 80 hour work week restrictions and much more ancillary staff have changed the role of both the resident and the medical student. I would go so far to say that any book about medical school written more than ten years ago is proabably out of date and should be ignored. Over the last decade many schools have changed the organizational structure of classes. Courses have been introduced specifically to help teach students to be more humane. At my medical school we started having direct patient contact in our second week in preceptorships in the surrounding community.

Lastly, ignore the book. If you feel that medicine is what you want for a vocation than do it. I can honestly say that I am very happy with medicine. I enjoyed medical school. I liked med shcool much more than my experience in graduate school. And I am looking forward to the Match next week.

 

[Axe]

I remember this guy. He used to maintain one of those premed websites back in the 90s.

He's also one of those douches that entered MD/PhD and dropped out after he milked all the free tuition. Those kind of people always suck.

I havent read his ebook yet, but there seems to be a fair amount of grumbling and bitching about Tufts medical school and the way they conduct their rotations.