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Do you like going in to work?

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by han14tra, 01.09.12.

  1. han14tra

    han14tra

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    I'm a 3rd year. Although I love medicine and I'm happy that I'll be a doctor in a few years, I have to say that most of the time I'd rather be somewhere else than the wards:

    4:45am- Wake Up :)sleep: Think to myself that I'd rather stay in my warm, cozy bed for a few more hours).
    11am- nearing the end of horrendously boring rounds :)idea: Think to myself that I'd rather be at home with a bowl of cereal in front of the TV watching my favorite show).
    Black Weekend (on call both Sat and Sun)- looking out the window at the beautiful sunshine and 60 degree temps in January thinking to myself that I'd rather be outside.

    Anyone else not loving every second of your rotations?
  2. Isoprop

    Isoprop Fascinating, tell me more

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    I think everyone feels that way about every obligation they have. Generally at 4:45am, I'd rather be sleeping than rounding, studying, driving to work, cleaning my toilet, paying taxes, going to jury duty, Christmas shopping, etc etc etc.
  3. copes

    copes

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    I think 3rd year has been fun except for the pimping, getting yelled at, and having to worry about evals.
  4. Tenesma

    Tenesma Senior Member

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    i remember my 3rd year med school gen surg rotation - would get to the hospital to pre-round by 4am and would get home at 10:30pm - was on call q3... post-call they would let the students go home by noon post-call...

    i hated it initially - then i became a robot by the 2nd week --- my apt basically became a place to brush my teeth, shower, sleep for a few hours and back to the grind...

    i learned more about medicine in those 2 months then the rest of the 10 months during 3rd year...

    it sucks - but it makes you tougher...
  5. DrYoda

    DrYoda Space Cowboy

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    That's life. Most of us have some leisure activity we would rather be doing than going in to work, if we didn't have future careers and bills and all that crap to worry about.

    Overall i think it's alright, better than most people's jobs imo.
  6. officedepot

    officedepot

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    .
    Last edited: 04.12.12
  7. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf

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    Is this something that just started recently in past couple of months or it's been ongoing since you started rotations?

    I definitely hit the highs and the lows but when I evaluate my like/dislike for medicine, I have consistently leaned towards "like" and I take that as a sign that I don't actually hate what I do.
  8. thepoopologist

    thepoopologist Ph.D in Clinical Meconium

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    It depends on the rotation. It's not an all consuming hate when I hit a tough rotation, but more getting over the feeling of incompetence as you're being hit with pimp questions left and right.
  9. Valadi

    Valadi

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    -
    Last edited: 01.05.14
  10. exi

    exi EM, home of the cool kids

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    I'm there with you, especially recently. I just want to stay in bed and just generally not go to the hospital.

    Whoa, that's rough. My surg rotation hours sucked also -- not that kind of suckitude though -- but the worst part was that the ratio of time spent in the hospital as compared to the amount of useful information learned was laughable. Guess it really just varies from rotation to rotation. And depends on the staff/residents you have...
  11. winkleweizen

    winkleweizen

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    well unless you do PP...you will have a boss, and they will most likely be much dumberer then you are with no medical background.
  12. unsung

    unsung

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    Ohh.. intern year sounds SO much better.

    I really don't think 3rd yr is very high yield...

    So far, I've spent most of 3rd yr learning how to adapt my "presentation" & SOAP notes to different residents/attendings.

    Anyway, I think I'll probably learn more in 1or 2 months of intern yr than the whole of 3rd yr... I say this because I feel like I knew the most at the start of 3rd yr, fresh off of Step 1. Since then, it's just been a steady decline! What I count as knowledge is that true understanding of pathophys, pharmacology, etc.

    That loss of theoretical knowledge has NOT been balanced by new clinical knowledge. I've definitely lost more than I've gained. 'Cuz despite what we're told about how it's not important for us to learn how to do the "mechanics" of placing orders, calling consults... well, I actually learn a lot by learning the mechanics. Like if you prescribe ketorlac, also make sure they're on a PPI. Those little things you might not pick up on unless you're the one placing the order. Until you're forced to do it, no one cares to take the time to answer all your Qs about how to do it, why, etc.

    Instead of learning the mechanics, we spend a bunch of time following people around doing nothing ("rounding"), or doing scut... basically, there's a TON of useless/wasted time in 3rd yr.

    I think sub-Is are helpful... and maybe the 1st 2 wks of any required rotation, such as peds... but that's about it. I mean, for each major topic such as RSV, give me a lecture on it, let me see 3 or 4 cases of it.. and that should be good, don't you think? If you took all the fluff out of a rotation, it's really only a few days' worth of lecture material, then maybe 2 wks worth of (distinct) clinical exposure. It's really not instructive to do 3 wks of RSV. Nor is it instructive to struggle with a super complex transplant patient before we've even learned how to manage the bread & butter cases. But that's how my 3rd yr has been... loads of down-time, and fairly random exposure. Really inadequate exposure, in some ways.

    Does anyone else feel like 3rd yr could be a LOT more condensed ?

    I'm a little scared 'cuz I really feel like I've forgotten a lot more than I've learned...
  13. olemissbabydoc

    olemissbabydoc Baby Doctor Moderator Emeritus

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    Depends on the rotation. Out of the ten-ish weeks I was on peds electives and gen peds, there were about 3-4 days total I didn't want to be at work. On OB, I loved the OB weeks/ hated gyn.

    On medicine and psych.. much more "I could be....weeding the yard right now" thoughts.

    And surgery is giving ORIENTATION at 6 AM. :wtf:. I can tell I'm gonna LOVE this one :vomit:
  14. VenusinFurs

    VenusinFurs I am tired, I am weary

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    I am getting infinitely more enraged and paranoid as the year goes on.

    But I love seeing patients in the morning. After that it tends to be downhill, unless I have particularly funny residents.
  15. swirls

    swirls Craving for comrades

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    I feel the same way. I'm also easily bored now, which makes it hard for me to act like I'm interested on my current rotation.
  16. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator Gold Donor

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    That occasional feeling of making the difference kept me going through the early mornings.
  17. exi

    exi EM, home of the cool kids

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    Making the difference? Please elaborate.
  18. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator Gold Donor

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    The rare occassion where being on the team actually did some good. For example, I once caught a medication mistake that was significantly harming the patient. Another time I managed to convince the resident to order a test that changed the course of a patient's care when it returned positive. Another time, I was able to build a relationship with a psych patient that wouldn't talk to anyone about why they were in the ER. Nothing world changing, but at least not meaningless.
  19. olemissbabydoc

    olemissbabydoc Baby Doctor Moderator Emeritus

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    One week of surgery down.

    I definitely DO NOT like going into work at 4:45.
  20. RySerr21

    RySerr21 i aint kinda hot Im sauna

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    being a 3rd year medical student is pretty whack only b/c of all the BS you have to do with random mandatory half day lectures and assignents and rotatsion where they make you drive to 10 different locations througout the week and yadda yadda. When I'm actually able to just show up to work and dedicate myself to my patients (like it was on my 4 weeks of electives) then i have no complaints. So i imagine 4th year will be significantly better in that regard.
  21. exi

    exi EM, home of the cool kids

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    :thumbup:

    Surgery and OB/Gyn hours are terrible, for sure. Just gotta lean into the wind.
  22. upright

    upright

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    I ****ing hate it.
  23. SeekerOfTheTree

    SeekerOfTheTree

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    I was feeling the same way this morning. Third year is kinda boring because we don't get paid and have no real responsibilities except sucking up for evals. Almost done though. Soon it all ends.
  24. ArcGurren

    ArcGurren only one will survive

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    Nah, I hate going in sometimes, especially if it's on a rotation I don't really want to be in. I was pretty miserable going into the mornings on peds (except for the neonatology week) and even worse during surgery. Getting up and being in the hospital at 4:30 or 5 in the morning is pure torture. On Medicine even though I enjoyed the rotation there were certainly days where I was too groggy to want to come in and I certainly felt like crap during the morning, but it got better as the day went on.
  25. Guevara M.D.

    Guevara M.D. Junior Member

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    The worst thing about M3 year is the complete and utter lack of control you have over your own life.

    You can't take any time off. You can't stay in bed if you get tired. You can't call in sick (well...you can..but it's such a huge hassle to justify at my school that you might as well mainline some Nyquil and go in). You can't even PLAN future events because your schedule changes every couple of weeks and you find out about it the day before it happens.

    There's nothing worse than being in a high stress environment where a mistake can actually really hurt someone or even kill them, not knowing what to do or what to say. On top of that you are surrounded by the most arrogant people on Earth who feel no hesitation in humiliating you in front of your friends and are always silently judging and evaluating you.

    Yes I am bitter. Thanks Ob Gyn and Surgery!
  26. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf

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    Welcome to real life, son. You aren't entitled to sleeping in or calling off at your convenience or working with nice people who are sensitive to your needs.

    This is why in order to matriculate at medical schools, people should be required to have worked in a, preferably, non-medical setting for at least a year before starting med school.
  27. VenusinFurs

    VenusinFurs I am tired, I am weary

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    As someone who didn't work before med school, I totally agree. Third year is a pretty big shock in terms of learning discipline and organization.
  28. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    The idea that you need to have taken time off from school to work prior to med school in order to understand that you can't just take the day off cause you feel tired is ludicrous.

    The gripe he has about never knowing your schedule beforehand is legit. It shouldn't be that difficult to give people their schedule for rotations several weeks in advance, yet I was never able to obtain it. Every time I tried to get my call schedule, because I wanted to go to a concert or plan a weekend away, I was told by the coordinator that "oh, we won't have the schedule until the first day." Lo and behold, we were just plugged into the set q4 schedule according to what team we were assigned. The abject laziness of these people is appalling.
  29. PharmaTope

    PharmaTope

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    exactly, real life is miserable. remember when everyone kept saying high school and college are the best years of your life and you laughed. now think about to their wisdom, they were spot on.
  30. PSurg530

    PSurg530

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    I agree that it's hard to plan when you don't know your schedule, but this is how residency will be too.
  31. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    That doesn't make it right. (Although I don't think it's as bad for residents--it always seemed like residents would get their schedule a few weeks ahead of the rotation start date, whereas that'd be an impossible luxury for med students.) Plus, it's not like these are difficult schedules to make. It's a matter of plugging the students into a pre-existing schedule, ie: student A takes call day 1, day 5, etc...

    Yet for some reason, that's a secret that we can't be made aware of prior to day 1 of the rotation.

    I mean, how ridiculous is it to show up on the first day and be told that you're taking call that night?
  32. smq123

    smq123 John Singer Sargent Administrator SDN Senior Moderator SDN Advisor

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    That depends on the program. Some programs issue the schedule a few days in advance; others release the schedule on the first day of a new rotation.

    So yes, it can be just as bad for residents.
  33. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    Okay, well can you at least agree that it shouldn't be like that?

    (Here, the residents always seem to have their schedule at least a few weeks ahead of time--I clearly think that's how it should be for students as well. It's a pretty simple, easy-to-fix quality of life issue. I don't know why anyone would argue otherwise.)
  34. smq123

    smq123 John Singer Sargent Administrator SDN Senior Moderator SDN Advisor

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    If the residents there truly do have their schedules ahead of time, and if the coordinator knows in advance how many students to expect on that rotation (which doesn't always happen, by the way - sometimes schools forget to tell them until a few days ahead), then yes, it should be easy for the students to guesstimate when they'll be on call and when they will not.

    But when I don't get my schedule until the day before the rotation...<shrug>. I know that it's sometimes unavoidable, that everyone is busy, and it's not big enough of a deal to complain about.

    I have to say, though, I'm kind of surprised that the residents there know, even a few weeks in advance, when they'll be on call. That's not all that usual, based on my experience, and what my friends in other residencies say.
  35. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    Maybe it's different b/c you're FP and thus have a more complicated call schedule (i imagine you cover clinic, inpatient and OB service so I could see that getting complex). But honestly I don't see how a typical inpatient IM or surgery call schedule is all that hard to get (well, maybe it would be now w/ the changes if a program hasn't gone to nightfloat, but that's beside the point). I mean, you're just plugged into an existing schedule: call->post-call->no call->pre-call->call...

    Or, w/ night float: long call->post-call->short-call->pre-call.

    I mean, it's not exactly rocket science. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for your schedule a few weeks in advance (and here, they certainly do have the schedules few weeks in advance and give them to the residents, but not the students).

    Do your attendings find out their schedule the morning of?
  36. smq123

    smq123 John Singer Sargent Administrator SDN Senior Moderator SDN Advisor

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    My FM program is a bit of an anomaly...OB coverage is completely separate from the call schedule. We also do a lot of home call, which simplifies things a bit. Since our FM attendings don't cover inpatient (we have hospitalists), their call schedule is extremely easy and is made a year in advance. But their lives and responsibilities are so completely separate from the residents, so it's not really a good analogy.

    Part of the problem is is that most programs rely on a resident to make the call schedule. When you're already working 70+ hours a week, finding time to make the schedule that can accomodate once-a-week clinic, coverage of multiple hospitals, and still keep people within the hour regulations is tough. It'd be nice if the program gave that resident "administrative time," which many attendings get built into their schedule, but...<sigh>. So I imagine that it's frequently a last-minute, "burn the midnight oil" type of deal to get the schedule done in the nick of time.

    Other links on resident call schedules and when people find out about them:
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=739324
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=710931
  37. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    A few points:

    1. The picture is a lot different for students--it's not an overworked resident making the schedule, it's a clerkship coordinator. And, it's a lot easier making student schedules since they really just have to plug them into an already established schedule.

    2. A lot of those people in those other threads were irritated that they had such late notice, with good reason. And a lot of people posted saying they got much earlier notice.

    I don't think I'm out of line for agreeing w/ someone who complained about never knowing their schedule beforehand. The fact that many coordinators are just too lazy to email out a schedule that's already made is just another F you on top of the sh*tcake of medical school.
  38. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf

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    There is a reason why medical training (i.e. being a student and a resident and a fellow) is long, tough, and takes a lot of discipline to go through. Not to sound overly dramatic but you're learning how to deal with people's lives and well-being. Not how to manage their portfolio or designing computer programs.

    Comfortable, easy training makes you vulnerable and weak to handle difficult, life-threatening, stressful situations that we're bound to run into at one point or another in our career as physicians no matter the specialty we choose.
  39. PSurg530

    PSurg530

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    I would be careful who you're calling lazy. Have you actually asked the clerkship coordinator what they do? They are probably not just plugging you into existing schedules. They have a bunch of other little things to coordinate for you like clinics, classes, etc. They also may not have the final list of students.

    And because it's probably relatively complicated, they don't want to have to deal with med students trying to switch their schedules around all the time because they want to go to a concert, which would be more possible if you have the schedule way ahead of time. This is one of the sacrifices of training in medicine.

    Just prepare for the fact that you might be on call the first day of the rotation. I don't think that's such a big deal.
  40. AlexMorph

    AlexMorph

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    Quit being dicks, guys. Just empathize with this dude. For all your damn talk about "needing to be hardcore to take care of patients", you people ignore the feelings and emotions of your colleagues way too much and call them weak...ffs
  41. SlickNickMD

    SlickNickMD

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    So far this surgery rotation is proving to be the worst experience of my life, and I actually want to become a surgeon:eek:
  42. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf

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    Cue Oprah Winfrey...
  43. Bacchus

    Bacchus PGY Too-many-expectations Moderator

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    For what it's worth, I agree with you and the poster you quoted.
  44. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    Who the F*ck are you kid? Get over yourself.
  45. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf

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    Quit moaning about missing out on your emo-goth rock concert because of rotation schedule, son...
  46. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    Dude, I don't what rotations are like for you, but mine typically involve showing up, introducing myself to the senior resident on the team, and then doing what s/he tells me to do. I excuse myself, as do all the other students, to attend whatever didactics are scheduled. If the residents go to clinic or take call, so do I. If there's a separate clinic portion of the rotation--on those weeks I go to clinic and introduce myself to the attending there.

    The coordinator has absolutely nothing to do w/ any of this, aside from assigning me to a particular team/resident/attending and some paperwork the first day.
  47. turkeyjerky

    turkeyjerky

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    Nice try...
  48. KnuxNole

    KnuxNole Sweets Addict

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    You can just tell the coordinator that you have a concert and have it changed. That's what someone did in my rotation.

    It's not like third year is supposed to be hell lol
  49. VenusinFurs

    VenusinFurs I am tired, I am weary

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    I agree with all of you. You're all right.
  50. ArcGurren

    ArcGurren only one will survive

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    Agreed, I can 100% sympathize with Guevara MD's sentiments. Surgery was one of the worst several weeks of my life (recently finished the rotation); I had to deal with some pretty badly malignant personalities and my evals were in the gutter no matter how hard i worked because I had the stupidity to say that I wanted to do medicine for a career even though I enjoyed learning about surgery (apparently that wasn't enough to pacify them).

    So for all the d-bags hating on him for being upset at the lack of control over his own life... get over yourself. I hate having no control over my own life and being surrounded by people who think they're the second coming every day for several weeks while working absurd hours was a massive drain on my sanity.

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