Do your OMM class grades matter for residencies?

[genelite]

Can someone give some insight to how much OMM grades matter for residencies? I am doing well in my science courses at my DO school but not so hot in OMM classes. Will this effect me in any way if I still nail the boards and am not going to be doing anything OMM related once I am done here?
Thank you for any insight

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[FrkyBgStok]

It depends on what you want to do. If you are looking at specialties where grades and OMM matter, it could. Some ortho programs still take specific class rank into account and being that OMM is often a huge part of grades, yes. PM&R likes OMM in general so yes it could matter. Pathology and radiology, not so much.

 

[DO2015CA]

Considering no grades really matter, I would say no

 

[jw3600]

It depends on what you want to do. If you are looking at specialties where grades and OMM matter, it could. Some ortho programs still take specific class rank into account and being that OMM is often a huge part of grades, yes. PM&R likes OMM in general so yes it could matter. Pathology and radiology, not so much.

OMM was a huge part of your grades....? They were like 5% of our grades. And considering no one gets less than a B+ it became even more inconsequential.

 

[Rekt]

If I was a PD, I'd pat anyone on the back who got a C in OMM.

 

[IslandStyle808]

If I was a PD, I'd pat anyone on the back who got a C in OMM.

That be like 90% of the student population.

 

[67552931811]

If I was a PD, I'd pat anyone on the back who got a C in OMM.

The worst part about omm is the docs involved make it so you hate it. Literally no one wants to hear this drivel about how we are "better" and how our approach is "different" and how some "research" from 1905 proved it's worth.

 

[Furan]

Considering no grades really matter, I would say no

Don't grades indirectly matter because of class rank?

I would think most PDs wouldn't care about a 2.5 GPA, but probably would care if that ranked you in the bottom 5% of your class. I could be wrong.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The worst part about omm is the docs involved make it so you hate it. Literally no one wants to hear this drivel about how we are "better" and how our approach is "different" and how some "research" from 1905 proved it's worth.

Idk if they try to make you hate it as much as after a month of Cranial its very difficult to keep any enthusiasm or interest in it. I mean I went from enjoying OS to really disliking it and feeling like I'm wasting my already limited time.

 

[tux4]

I've talked to PD's before in different specialties. One common thing is preclinical grades mean nothing unless you failed something. Grading is so variable between schools it isn't worth the time to use it to differentiate applicants.


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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I've talked to PD's before in different specialties. One common thing is preclinical grades mean nothing unless you failed something. Grading is so variable between schools it isn't worth the time to use it to differentiate applicants.


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This is true. It's why P/F is becoming the accepted standard at most schools. This not to mention that it is more conducive to boards prep when you're not fighting for an A or B+.

 

[ortnakas]

It matters a bit because it affects your GPA and/or class rank. On the other hand, at most schools it has a relatively small effect on your GPA-- one semester we had 26.5 credits of PBL (basic science) and OPP was only 2 credits.

So if you're doing well in the hard sciences but not in OPP... as long as you're not on the border of failing OPP, you're making the right choice.

 

[Furan]

It matters a bit because it affects your GPA and/or class rank. On the other hand, at most schools it has a relatively small effect on your GPA-- one semester we had 26.5 credits of PBL (basic science) and OPP was only 2 credits.

So if you're doing well in the hard sciences but not in OPP... as long as you're not on the border of failing OPP, you're making the right choice.

Our school does this really messed up business where it adjusts the credits per class based on performance instead of curving grades. So for example if anatomy had the lowest average it would be worth 0.5 credits, and if OMM had the highest average it would be worth 4.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Our school does this really messed up business where it adjusts the credits per class based on performance instead of curving grades. So for example if anatomy had the lowest average it would be worth 0.5 credits, and if OMM had the highest average it would be worth 4.

That's.... pretty out there and totally not fair to students.

I mean for what it is worth, the one great thing about KCU is just how receptive and willing the staff are to listening to our concerns about grading and curriculum. A policy like that would be dead the moment it was even invented lol.

 

[songl4a]

At MD schools, class rank matters for AOA consideration. DO school equivalent is SSP which no one has heard of (and even then the requirements vary greatly school to school); hence grades don't matter.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Considering no grades really matter, I would say no

Wait, really?


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[DO2015CA]

Wait, really?


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Grades don't matter for the actual gpa but they matter for class rank. Outside of your top of class gunning for ortho or something class rank doesn't even matter. Try and be in your top half of class rank, but that's not particularly difficult to do. Even for ortho and other competitive specialties boards are way more important than class rank.

A survey from residency directors said class rank was like 6 on their list for things they consider. Behind board scores, auditions, lor and a few others

 

[Camaxtli]

If I was a PD, I'd pat anyone on the back who got a C in OMM.

My back is going to be sore from all that patting

 

[NotYou20]

This is true. It's why P/F is becoming the accepted standard at most schools. This not to mention that it is more conducive to boards prep when you're not fighting for an A or B+.

I never understood this. If they don't matter why wouldn't you just take the b- or whatever like you would if its pass fail?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I never understood this. If they don't matter why wouldn't you just take the b- or whatever like you would if its pass fail?

Who says I don't occasionally do that? The difference though is the overall mood of the class.

 

[NotYou20]

Who says I don't occasionally do that? The difference though is the overall mood of the class.

That's what I got out of "fighting for." Makes more sense when you put it like that. Thanks

 

[Rekt]

I never understood this. If they don't matter why wouldn't you just take the b- or whatever like you would if its pass fail?

I like my As. I don't think it means anything in the long run or that it will help me get a better residency. I don't plan on doing anything hypercompetitive anyway. It's just nice to see a return for the effort that I put in. For some reason, my classmates get really bent out of shape about their grades since our averages relatively low, but they all should know it doesn't mean that much.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha no

 

[Mr Roboto]

Grades don't matter for the actual gpa but they matter for class rank. Outside of your top of class gunning for ortho or something class rank doesn't even matter. Try and be in your top half of class rank, but that's not particularly difficult to do. Even for ortho and other competitive specialties boards are way more important than class rank.

A survey from residency directors said class rank was like 6 on their list for things they consider. Behind board scores, auditions, lor and a few others

It's impossible for 50% of students.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

The worst part about omm is the docs involved make it so you hate it. Literally no one wants to hear this drivel about how we are "better" and how our approach is "different" and how some "research" from 1905 proved it's worth.

Which is really a shame... (depending on the field you want to go into) it could be such a good class if it was done right. I'm still bitter about it.

 

[surfguy84]

It's impossible for 50% of students.

You're assuming those 50% work as hard as the 50% above them. since there will always be a huge portion of the class who doesn't put in 100% effort, getting yourself in the top 50% shouldn't be very difficult as long as you put in 100% effort.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Grades don't matter for the actual gpa but they matter for class rank. Outside of your top of class gunning for ortho or something class rank doesn't even matter. Try and be in your top half of class rank, but that's not particularly difficult to do. Even for ortho and other competitive specialties boards are way more important than class rank.

A survey from residency directors said class rank was like 6 on their list for things they consider. Behind board scores, auditions, lor and a few others

Huh, I thought I had to stay stressed out over grades and make an A in every class like I was pressured to do in undergrad.


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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You're assuming those 50% work as hard as the 50% above them. since there will always be a huge portion of the class who doesn't put in 100% effort, getting yourself in the top 50% shouldn't be very difficult as long as you put in 100% effort.

I think that repeatedly we find that in many cases that at least half of the people in the bottom 50% are working far harder than those in the top. For many medical school just doesn't click as easily and for many they take a lot more time to learn basic fundamentals than those who get it quickly.

So handwork isn't always enough to get you into the top. But it probably is enough to get you to pass.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I think that repeatedly we find that in many cases that at least half of the people in the bottom 50% are working far harder than those in the top. For many medical school just doesn't click as easily and for many they take a lot more time to learn basic fundamentals than those who get it quickly.

So handwork isn't always enough to get you into the top. But it probably is enough to get you to pass.

Very important point stated above.

I think the largest factor that I have hounded, even as a pre-med, was good study habits. Some of those in the bottom half don't have them or haven't truly developed them. 1. Staying on a schedule 2. Active learning 3. Having a study group to confirm what you learn. The three here are hallmarks of doing good in medical school (I didn't say excellent, this is another story).

 

[ortnakas]

I think that repeatedly we find that in many cases that at least half of the people in the bottom 50% are working far harder than those in the top. For many medical school just doesn't click as easily and for many they take a lot more time to learn basic fundamentals than those who get it quickly.

So handwork isn't always enough to get you into the top. But it probably is enough to get you to pass.

Agree wholeheartedly. I think it's easy for premeds (especially premed SDNers) and early MS-1s to assume that rocking undergrad means they'll rock med school, and people who are struggling must not be working hard enough, and that's simply not the case. Sure, some people in the bottom 50% might be lazy or have competing life priorities, but the vast majority of people in every med school class are putting their time in. Med school is hard.

 

[AlteredScale]

I think that repeatedly we find that in many cases that at least half of the people in the bottom 50% are working far harder than those in the top. For many medical school just doesn't click as easily and for many they take a lot more time to learn basic fundamentals than those who get it quickly.

So handwork isn't always enough to get you into the top. But it probably is enough to get you to pass.

Handwork huh? LOL

I'll have to say, our class works incredibly hard. Including those who are in the lower half. To make a blanket statement that the top half works harder while the lower half is slacking is an inconsistent statement. Intrinsic aspects such as how well your reading comprehension is, how to analyze and solve, how to organize mental notes, and clinical application are quite varied within the class so each of us have to work differently with the material.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Handwork huh? LOL

I'll have to say, our class works incredibly hard. Including those who are in the lower half. To make a blanket statement that the top half works harder while the lower half is slacking is an inconsistent statement. Intrinsic aspects such as how well your reading comprehension is, how to analyze and solve, how to organize mental notes, and clinical application are quite varied within the class so each of us have to work differently with the material.

In our class if we didn't work hard we'd fail out. And it's very true, not everyone comes into our school with the same level of reading skills and reasoning. I'll humor the notion that the people who are doing the best right now in Robbin's land are the people who probably majored in literature or have read books most of their life. Someone who hates reading probably may as well be having their nails ripped off when trying to map out patterns and themes in robbins.

I mean for example in some respects one of the reasons I'm doing better in classes this year is due to my limited competence in anatomy. If it's a structure that's particularly obscure or the spelling absurd I'll get that wrong. There's nothing less interesting to me than having to distinguish random a versus random n if they're purposefully obscured.

 

[DO2015CA]

What do you call the person who graduating last in their class?

A doctor.

 

[surfguy84]

What do you call the person who graduating last in their class?

A doctor.

Eh, maybe. Some percentage of students have to fail boards.

 

[DO2015CA]

Eh, maybe. Some percentage of students have to fail boards.

I say graduating class. In Osteopathic medical schools you have to pass all boards in order to graduate

 

[Mr Roboto]

You're assuming those 50% work as hard as the 50% above them. since there will always be a huge portion of the class who doesn't put in 100% effort, getting yourself in the top 50% shouldn't be very difficult as long as you put in 100% effort.

What do you call the person who graduating last in their class?

A doctor.

A family medicine resident in Wyoming.

 

[NurWollen]

A family medicine resident in Wyoming.

...who will be far better trained than an FM resident in NYC or Chicago.

Edit: have you ever been to Wyoming?

 

[Dr. Death]

...who will be far better trained than an FM resident in NYC or Chicago.

Edit: have you ever been to Wyoming?

And have much more money

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

...who will be far better trained than an FM resident in NYC or Chicago.

Edit: have you ever been to Wyoming?

I'm not really sure I buy into the unopposed rural programs producing more effective FM doctors do to them having to do more without competition with other residents. I mean sure, they'll probably be a hell of a lot better at doing OB than an FM doctor from a major city probably.

 

[NurWollen]

I'm not really sure I buy into the unopposed rural programs producing more effective FM doctors do to them having to do more without competition with other residents. I mean sure, they'll probably be a hell of a lot better at doing OB than an FM doctor from a major city probably.

I mean, there are great urban programs too, and great opposed programs. I guess it depends on what you want. Some people go into FM because they value true primary care. They enjoy preventative medicine, they enjoy the outpatient environment. Other people want to do rural EM+OB+Clinic+hospitalist. Others want to stay as far away from the hospital post-residency as is possible. Others want a program with the right opportunities to get into sports medicine.

It's just about finding the right fit, and finding a program that meets your needs. I guess it just annoys me when people assume FM in Wyoming is some seventh circle of hell. It's a great specialty in one of the most beautiful states in the country.

 

[kenjixshadow]

It's just about finding the right fit, and finding a program that meets your needs. I guess it just annoys me when people assume FM in Wyoming is some seventh circle of hell. It's a great specialty in one of the most beautiful states in the country.

Agree. Some of these SDNers don't know wth are they talking about. Training in Wyoming is much better than training in an IM community program in NYC, where it is literally 7 circle of hell - lots of IMGs/FMGs, crappy ancillary staffs, overwork as 80 hrs rule don't apply there and nobody dares to loggin more than that, overpriced living standard, no teaching, tons of scut work, crappy tech, and you're on your own. Further, I've heard stories of residents matched at top IM programs in NYC - Cornell and Columbia - killed themselves, may or may not d/t stress. I rather match in Wyoming before go near Manhattan or Brooklyn.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I mean, there are great urban programs too, and great opposed programs. I guess it depends on what you want. Some people go into FM because they value true primary care. They enjoy preventative medicine, they enjoy the outpatient environment. Other people want to do rural EM+OB+Clinic+hospitalist. Others want to stay as far away from the hospital post-residency as is possible. Others want a program with the right opportunities to get into sports medicine.

It's just about finding the right fit, and finding a program that meets your needs. I guess it just annoys me when people assume FM in Wyoming is some seventh circle of hell. It's a great specialty in one of the most beautiful states in the country.

Oh I don't disagree. It's totally about fit. I personally think I'd be miserable in Wyoming because I'd probably get frostbite in October.

My comment was more whether or not I buy into the notion that a FM doctor from a rural program will be in terms of training better off than someone from a city. I imagine it will depend on whether they want to be a hospitalist or not I guess.

 

[n3xa]

Can someone give some insight to how much OMM grades matter for residencies? I am doing well in my science courses at my DO school but not so hot in OMM classes. Will this effect me in any way if I still nail the boards and am not going to be doing anything OMM related once I am done here?
Thank you for any insight

People have remediated OMM and matched. It's going to be ok.

 

[Dr. Death]

People have remediated OMM and matched. It's going to be ok.

Remediating OMM should be a badge of honor

 

[n3xa]

Remediating OMM should be a badge of honor

The material is SO NICE you wanted to be tested twice

 

[Mr Roboto]

...who will be far better trained than an FM resident in NYC or Chicago.

Edit: have you ever been to Wyoming?

Yeah. It's nice to visit a few months out of the year, but I'd go insane living there year round

But my post was in jest. You can put the pitchforks away.