Does Residency=Divorce?

[Scorpiomd]

My husband and I met a "younger doctor" (maybe 35) and of course I began interviewing him about his experiences along the way. He explained that he chose IM because he wanted a family life and when I asked him if he had any advice for be before starting he says (with my husband sitting right there) that all of the marriages that he witnessed during medical school and residency ended in divorce if they weren't Indian (which he is) or if the spouse was not already a doctor. Of course, hubby and I are looking at each other like WTH? Can anybody give some encouragement or different experiences.

I told him that I have 3 anchors (kids) in my relationship among other things to make it work but I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't considered the stress on our relationship before.

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[cabinbuilder]

SOunds like your marriage has been around awhile, hence the three kids. I wouldn't worry about it.

I started medical school with 2 toddlers and a new fiance. Did medical school for 2 years before we got married. Survived through medical school and residency and are still together 10 years later. I think as a spouse you have to realize the time commitment it takes to become a doctor and there are many days/evenings spent studying with a study group or at the anatomy lab that takes away from family time. The trick is to schedule family time into your life to do things together.

I had study group from Sun through Thurs eve. I spend Friday night with the kids/husband. Saturday my husband worked so that was my day at home doing mom stuff and things with the kids.

Residency for me was super easy to deal with. We had a great call schedule so I was on call maybe 3 times a month as an intern. The rotations and clinic was set up so the latest I ever was home was 6 pm. OF course this is family practice life is much more complicated with the specialties and surgery. Depends on what you choose to do determines the amount of time expected to learn the craft.

 

[EdLongshanks]

My husband and I met a "younger doctor" (maybe 35) and of course I began interviewing him about his experiences along the way. He explained that he chose IM because he wanted a family life and when I asked him if he had any advice for be before starting he says (with my husband sitting right there) that all of the marriages that he witnessed during medical school and residency ended in divorce if they weren't Indian (which he is) or if the spouse was not already a doctor. Of course, hubby and I are looking at each other like WTH? Can anybody give some encouragement or different experiences.

I told him that I have 3 anchors (kids) in my relationship among other things to make it work but I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't considered the stress on our relationship before.

Anecdotal evidence.

In my personal experience, every marriage that doesn't include both right handed and left handed partners (like mine) ends in divorce.

 

[Pemberley]

Please note that I'm only 3.5 months into 3rd year and <7 months into parenthood, so limit the credit you give my experience in accordance with its brevity.

That being said, I've been thinking lately about how the geriatricians say that their patients have diminished "physiologic reserve" -- the same UTI that you & I would shrug off will put an elderly patient in the hospital.

I feel as though my household has diminished "orderliness reserve" if you like -- any little disruption to our schedule is enough to cause a laundry pile-up, a clutter explosion, and an incursion of oven pizza into the dinner schedule. However, we have plenty of "emotional reserve" -- we each have an occasional testy evening, but nothing we can't handle. I talk with my husband frequently about how he's feeling and never fail to emphasize that if it ever comes down to him vs medical school, he wins. Period.

HOWEVER, whether you can handle it will depend on (a) how much reserve you have AND (b) how much reserve you need. Medical school comes much more easily for some students than for others. I am very grateful that I didn't have my son before the pre-clinical years, because I had a great deal of trouble with those, and probably would have had to choose to leave school in order to participate in a family life. (I do not attend a school with enthusiasm for flexible curriculum options.) 3rd year, so far, is nothing in comparison. My husband and I expect to live as though I don't exist during my surgery rotation, but my Ob/Gyn and Medicine rotations, though exhausting, were not marriage-changers.

This won't be true for all people, and might not have been true for me at all schools. I'm guessing that it's tough to know where you'll stand at your school until you're actually doing it.

N=1.

 

[jinx520]

Please note that I'm only 3.5 months into 3rd year and <7 months into parenthood, so limit the credit you give my experience in accordance with its brevity.

That being said, I've been thinking lately about how the geriatricians say that their patients have diminished "physiologic reserve" -- the same UTI that you & I would shrug off will put an elderly patient in the hospital.

I feel as though my household has diminished "orderliness reserve" if you like -- any little disruption to our schedule is enough to cause a laundry pile-up, a clutter explosion, and an incursion of oven pizza into the dinner schedule. However, we have plenty of "emotional reserve" -- we each have an occasional testy evening, but nothing we can't handle. I talk with my husband frequently about how he's feeling and never fail to emphasize that if it ever comes down to him vs medical school, he wins. Period.

HOWEVER, whether you can handle it will depend on (a) how much reserve you have AND (b) how much reserve you need. Medical school comes much more easily for some students than for others. I am very grateful that I didn't have my son before the pre-clinical years, because I had a great deal of trouble with those, and probably would have had to choose to leave school in order to participate in a family life. (I do not attend a school with enthusiasm for flexible curriculum options.) 3rd year, so far, is nothing in comparison. My husband and I expect to live as though I don't exist during my surgery rotation, but my Ob/Gyn and Medicine rotations, though exhausting, were not marriage-changers.

This won't be true for all people, and might not have been true for me at all schools. I'm guessing that it's tough to know where you'll stand at your school until you're actually doing it.

N=1.

Excellent post!

 

[QofQuimica]

My husband and I met a "younger doctor" (maybe 35) and of course I began interviewing him about his experiences along the way. He explained that he chose IM because he wanted a family life and when I asked him if he had any advice for be before starting he says (with my husband sitting right there) that all of the marriages that he witnessed during medical school and residency ended in divorce if they weren't Indian (which he is) or if the spouse was not already a doctor. Of course, hubby and I are looking at each other like WTH? Can anybody give some encouragement or different experiences.

I told him that I have 3 anchors (kids) in my relationship among other things to make it work but I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't considered the stress on our relationship before.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "facts." For every divorced person in residency you can point to, there is another whose marriage is doing fine, and a third who got married while in med school or residency. I've seen all of the above, and I would never presume to tell you (or any other person) what will specifically happen to your marriage once you're in the pressure cooker. As the others have said, it's important for both partners to understand that med school and residency will put your relationship under a new type of stress. But that doesn't necessarily equate with divorce.

And FWIW, any time someone uses racial or cultural stereotyping to "prove" their point, that immediately discounts their opinion in my book.

 

[eablackwell]

In my personal experience, every marriage that doesn't include both right handed and left handed partners (like mine) ends in divorce.

Oh thank God I'm a lefty and my husband a righty. So worried for a sec!

 

[ruraldocmom]

Yes! I'm a righty, husband a lefty--we'll make it too!

Pemberley--holy awesome post. It rings so true.

Scorpio MD, the Doc that told you those stats sounds like a tool--hope he doesn't make medical decisions based on that kind of non-evidence! And now I'll proceed to give my anecdotal evidence.

I'll have 8 yrs of marriage and a 4 & 2 year old when I start. I think its the time away from the kids that will be the hardest. And making time for time with the husband. I got some great advice on another post about doing a little bit of marriage counseling before med school starts--establishing a relationship with a therapist near the school, so that if needed, a relationship is already established (gotta admit, my husband is a bigger fan than me, but I've come around).

I've got a friend who is a practicing OB and got married during med school to a guy with kids... made it through school, through residency, and through the birth of two more kids (her own), while her husband is finishing up his surgery residency. Whew! It makes me tired thinking about it. Anyway--they seem a little stressed, but they've made it, and I think its pretty awesome.

I think Pemberley has it right that the spouse has to know they comes before Med School--that if its a choice between the two, they'll win. That got us through my crazy military time & 15 hour overnight shifts... my husband knew what I had to do was what I had to do--any time I could make a choice to be home, or a choice to be with the kids--I did it.

Clear eyes, full heart, can't lose.

 

[Scorpiomd]

Thanks for your replies. I'm not kidding myself that things will get hard but during the past 9 yrs we've had some hard times. I've considered some of the complications and we've talked about it. I guess now I'm glad I had 3 boys Their all his!

We'll just have to buckle our seatbelts and go for the ride I guess.

 

[jl lin]

Maybe yes, and maybe no. No one can say with 100% confidence. If they do, it smacks a bit of arrogance to me. Unremitting stress has a way of compromising things, whether it be immune systems or marriages.


I think cabinbuilder had it right. Make plans and keep them with your spouse. Keep in mind that they have their own amount of stresses r/t pursuing this goal with you.

I think to some degree it has to do with the residency you choose--both in terms of area/specialty as well as the general program, PD, and those with who you will be working. It also has to do with the kind of acuity and numbers you will be working with as well.


And in any great relationship I've ever seen, each of the spouses knew that give and take is everything, so there may be times where one is more of the hammer and the other the nail, but good relationships are able to switch that up as necessary. But there is no single formula for a successful marriage when you are under the stress. It's two people together as one in many senses, but each is still a unique individual. What one person can tolerate is not what another person can tolerate.

To think that it could never happen to "you" is problematic IMHO. It's those that take this for granted that can get into some real trouble. I have witnessed a lot of break-ups w/ residents as a nurse, and a fair number of affairs. They can happen to the nicest and most straight-laced of people when you are talking working intensely day and night in and out with other people as you take care of very sick patients. It's not all General Hospital so to speak, but there is more of that than many people realize. I knew it kind of shocked me to see it going on after I first became a nurse. And it's not simply about those people that are players either. It has to do with the hours, workload, loads of stress and tension, common goals and interests, etc.

Yes, I have seen more than a few marriages break up. You can only do the best you can, stay focused as possible, and take care of your own well at home, so to speak. Once that gets neglected, it can be a real downhill spiral.

 

[jl lin]

Also, I don't know what I'd do if my spouse was like, "No way are you doing that" or was all whiney about it. I mean they are taking a risk too by being that way, b/c there is bound to be some resentment with that attitude, at least on some level.

I think you reach a point where you say you just have to do your best and go for it. Life is full of taking risks, and so is medicine really. Do your best to make it work. That's all you can do at the end of the day.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Scorpio, my friend is in her 3rd year of residency. She went to school 2 hours away from her husband, and lived on that campus most of the first 2 years. She and her husband are still married, and while the 1st and 2nd year of residency came with some issues, they are STILL married. In addition to that, the husband lost his son to cancer last year, and they are stronger than ever. I worry about my future as well, we all do... it's part of not being able to see the future Best of luck

 

[ruraldocmom]

jl lin, I think you are so right about how thinking it will never happen to you is a big problem too. It reminds me of when my husband and I did pre-marital counseling. My friend said, "I would never go to pre-marital counseling. If I already had problems and needed counseling, then that means I shouldn't get married." Yeah... ignoring challenges doesn't mean they don't exist...

The give and take bit is important too. I've heard it said that giving 50/50 to be equal = success, but really it doesn't. Because no-one will view the giving as equal giving. Its best when each gives 150%--and doesn't keep score. (Not that it always works out that way, but you know).

Anyway, I'm often a bit guilty of the it won't happen to me. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Anyway, I'm often a bit guilty of the it won't happen to me. Thanks for the reminder.

Not being female, I don't have the ability to imagine myself into future trouble that doesn't exist.

I think that there is something to be said for the presumption of permanence.

 

[MrsLongshanks]

Not being female, I don't have the ability to imagine myself into future trouble that doesn't exist.

I think that there is something to be said for the presumption of permanence.

Something seems to work we celebrate our 23rd wedding Anniversary.

 

[ShyRem]

So far so good here. Married 17 years. Still going strong. Intern year of residency.

Communication is SO key. As is understanding. If you go into medicine and don't have a strong partnership you are more likely to fail. If you have a strong partnership and friendship as a basis of your marriage I think it more likely you'll make it through. Friendship gets you through those time when you're just too darn tired for anything else.

We've been through worse than residency. The whole med school thing was... interesting. We've been separated for our jobs before for months at a time. And you have to realize that while one party is growing by leaps and bounds the other doesn't remain stagnant - you are there with them, growing WITH them (not learning everything they do mind you), supporting them. No small task. The little things mean so so so much. Having him make my coffee every day is HUGE to me. My making the bed on my days off, stopping at the grocery store for milk on my way home, setting things out for dinner or cooking extra on my days off so they can eat leftovers during my week is big for him. Amazing how a grocery store shopping run can be almost a date.

My own biased opinion of course. You have to make it work for you. And it takes two.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

ShyRem, great post...

 

[stee1erfan]

I dont know if you have seen this but ...you can watch it on Netflix insta-play....its called Doctors Diaries...2 part doc...by PBS NOVA. A must see for every aspiring doctor

 

[2old4med]

I dont know if you have seen this but ...you can watch it on Netflix insta-play....its called Doctors Diaries...2 part doc...by PBS NOVA. A must see for every aspiring doctor

You can also see some clips on the PBS NOVA website for free, but I don't know if it is the full series. It is a good documentary but seems like the film was going for a depressing tone. The website has a follow-up series that is a ""where are they now" film. It is pretty interesting to see how much some of the people changed.

 

[spiderpete]

Oh thank God I'm a lefty and my husband a righty. So worried for a sec!

I'm ambidextrous, and my wife is righty. What does that mean?

Seriously though, communication and little things are huge. We have weathered the post bacc and app process so far. Med school and residency will be harder to be sure. I like Shyrem's advice.

Does anyone else have an issue with naysayers? People who whisper reservations and doubts? I can shrug them off, or better, take their insinuations as motivation. But I know it is harder for my spouse to deal with them. It takes faith and perseverance; easy to say, hard to do.

 

[pinkzebra]

cabinbuilder, you are inspiring!

so good to hear about your positive experience with a spouse and children.

we have a 6 yr old and what has kept me from applying to medical school fresh out of my undergrad institution was fear of not being able to balance it all. i thought medical school meant giving up a family life. i am learning otherwise, though, and have decided to go for it.

 

[TheNewGuy8]

While I'm not married I have BIG concerns in this area. I'm in a relationship that, if all goes well, will probably mean I'll be married at some point during med school. That will mean new marriage during residency.

I'm almost worried to ask the naive question in my head that I'm sure you've all heard ("is residency really as bad as everyone says?"). I just don't understand why our system works this way - why do our health professionals go through such an unhealthy training system? To be honest it feels like the industry's way of sucking out as much low/non-paid work from each person before they have to actually be compensated appropriately. feels gross.

But from a time perspective, I just can't imagine pulling 12 hour days 6 days/week. How do people do it? Are some residencies less demanding than others?

I heard a law was passed recently to help mitigate some of this, but the assumption is that while actual in-hospital hours will be capped, loopholes will be found so nothing truly changes.

This is probably the piece of the process that worries me the most.

 

[QofQuimica]

But from a time perspective, I just can't imagine pulling 12 hour days 6 days/week. How do people do it? Are some residencies less demanding than others?

First, it's amazing what you can do when you need to. If you want to be a physician badly enough, you will manage the work hours. You just do.

Second, yes, some residencies are less demanding time-wise than others, with surgery on the longer hours end of the scale and psych/PM&R/FM on the shorter end. But even within a residency, you don't work equally hard on every rotation. I'll be putting in a lot more hours when I'm on a MICU rotation than I will be when I'm on rads.

Finally, as others have already said, you should sit down with your future fiancee and make sure she understands what you are both getting yourselves into. Some programs even have support and social organizations for spouses and partners of residents or med students, which may be worth looking into.