Dog/Cat Breeds

[FantasyVesperia]

I don't know if it's just me, but I can't remember the dog and cat breeds to save my life, especially the dogs. In my Pre-Veterinary class, we did dog and cat breeds and that was my worst unit. When a Veterinarian came and spoke to my class, she mentioned that vet students should already know basic dog and cat breeds.

How important is knowing dog/cat breeds?

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[nyanko]

To be honest, it's not terribly important. I know breeds really well and I feel like it's kind of taking up space in my brain that could be used for other, more useful things, similar to how I feel about all the early 90's rap lyrics that are sticking around up there.

Especially for cats. If it comes from a shelter, you can be 99% sure it's a randombred cat. If it's a purebred cat, the owner will probably be pretty weird and you'll know.

Dogs...there will be some breeds that you'll learn that have diseases associated with them, and the signalment (age/breed/sex(neuterstatus)) will be important to guiding your thinking in a direction in a pinch, but it'll be in your computer system anyhow and once you see enough (for example) heart disease in dobermans and cavaliers you'll start to remember them anyhow.

 

[devyn]

I probably know all of the dog breeds there are - I was a bit of a nerd when I was younger and studied the big book of dog breeds. I can name any breed of dog on sight - even the rare ones. And I know most of the cat breeds as well. In most of life it would probably be quite useless info, but I think for vet med it can come in quite handy especially when it comes to knowing what genetic disorders certain breeds are prone to.

That being said... when going through veterinary school it is more important to learn the medicine and I think the breeds will come over time. When you are going in to see a client if you are unsure of the dog or cat breed it would be best to check with another veterinarian or check the animal's record to make sure it is noted prior to calling it a completely different breed. The last thing you want to do is mistakenly identify a dog or cat for a breed it is not as that questions your intelligence as a veterinarian even if you know your medicine.

 

[Emiloo4]

I am also a rather large "breed nerd" but I have worked with many vets who don't know a lot of breeds. Genetic disorders are definitely the main reason for knowing them, but you also get the owner who just HAS to know what 17 breeds of dog are in her mixed pup, and will look at you like you're stupid if you can't pinpoint it down . So I think that's another area where it can be useful. That being said, most of the breeds you will just learn over time, and some of the really rare ones that come in, people actually like to "stump the doc" and it makes them feel all special to have a very rare breed that "even the vet didn't know about"

 

[kakurubird]

Especially for cats. If it comes from a shelter, you can be 99% sure it's a randombred cat. If it's a purebred cat, the owner will probably be pretty weird and you'll know.

True story. 99% of the time someone asks what breed their cat is, it's a DSH/DLH. If it wasn't and was a purebred, they would know that already.


The way I've learned a lot of more unusual breeds has been just from googling breeds that come in at work that I'm not too familiar with.

 

[bunnity]

I don't think it's a huge deal to know all of them, especially cats, but if I brought my pit bull into your clinic and you thought it was a German Shepherd I would question your skillz

 

[nyanko]

you also get the owner who just HAS to know what 17 breeds of dog are in her mixed pup, and will look at you like you're stupid if you can't pinpoint it down .

But you're just making it up anyway. IMO the best thing to do there is to explain to the person (if the dog isn't quite clearly predominantly one or two breeds) that there's just no way to tell and won't the surprise be fun while the dog grows up??

 

[New Foundland]

Personally, I check the pet's file before I go into the exam room

 

[Jamr0ckin]

I can't tell cow or horse breeds apart except for the few obvious ones...

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[Emiloo4]

But you're just making it up anyway. IMO the best thing to do there is to explain to the person (if the dog isn't quite clearly predominantly one or two breeds) that there's just no way to tell and won't the surprise be fun while the dog grows up??

No, I completely agree, hence my eye roll . And we get people who always want genetic testing done and we always try to discourage it. Not only does it come back with multiple breeds and they are disappointed, but it really doesn't matter what they are. They are big squishy snuggles and that's all that matters. You should see my two dogs, only the lord above has any clue what dogs came together to make them . And I really don't care what they are. Plus, I personally think it's more fun to have a dog that looks like no other dog that anyone has.

 

[deleted103644]

Phew....

For a second I thought you vet people were trying to breed dogs with cats....

 

[bbeventer]

Especially for cats. If it comes from a shelter, you can be 99% sure it's a randombred cat. If it's a purebred cat, the owner will probably be pretty weird and you'll know.

True story!

 

[StartingoverVet]

No, I completely agree, hence my eye roll . And we get people who always want genetic testing done and we always try to discourage it. Not only does it come back with multiple breeds and they are disappointed, but it really doesn't matter what they are. They are big squishy snuggles and that's all that matters. You should see my two dogs, only the lord above has any clue what dogs came together to make them . And I really don't care what they are. Plus, I personally think it's more fun to have a dog that looks like no other dog that anyone has.

I completely disagree (and not just because Emiloo give me a hard time).

It depends on how mixed a dog is whether the results are useful. Parents definitely... grandparents less so, anything farther back than that is useless.

And the reason why I disagree is because of the breed related diseases. More and more conditions are showing up as breed related, and having a good idea of the 2 or 3 breeds in a mix is really useful diagnostically, and can make a big difference. Sure most people are just curious, but I think the info is really useful. Maybe it is because all I do every day is research on breed predilections, but with around 1000 diseases genetically inherited now and about 200 of them with known mutations, and almost every single one of them breed specific, this is crucial information.

And I don't think you need to recognize the breeds as a pre-vet student, but when you leave school, you better be able to remember some of the common breed predilections, and once you start practice, you will soon learn a lot of this stuff if you do general practice or internal medicine.

The number of diseases we classify at the genetic level, the breed level is only going to increase, and this is going to be a big part of practicing.

So, in conclusion, knowing your mixed breeds parentage can be quite useful.

 

[Emiloo4]

And the reason why I disagree is because of the breed related diseases. More and more conditions are showing up as breed related, and having a good idea of the 2 or 3 breeds in a mix is really useful diagnostically, and can make a big difference. Sure most people are just curious, but I think the info is really useful. Maybe it is because all I do every day is research on breed predilections, but with around 1000 diseases genetically inherited now and about 200 of them with known mutations, and almost every single one of them breed specific, this is crucial information.

Definitely. I was only thinking about people being curious, but this is a good point.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Definitely. I was only thinking about people being curious, but this is a good point.

Also I am pretty sure that MARS' mixed breed analysis can be combined with multi-snp analysis and you can check for a bunch of known mutations at the same time.

OT: I can't believe MARS, the food company, is the biggest veterinary related companies. I thought Chocolate and pets don't mix?

 

[dyachei]

Also I am pretty sure that MARS' mixed breed analysis can be combined with multi-snp analysis and you can check for a bunch of known mutations at the same time.

OT: I can't believe MARS, the food company, is the biggest veterinary related companies. I thought Chocolate and pets don't mix?

Mars owns Banfield, too. And Cesar food. And Royal Canin.

 

[nyanko]

And the reason why I disagree is because of the breed related diseases. More and more conditions are showing up as breed related, and having a good idea of the 2 or 3 breeds in a mix is really useful diagnostically, and can make a big difference. Sure most people are just curious, but I think the info is really useful. Maybe it is because all I do every day is research on breed predilections, but with around 1000 diseases genetically inherited now and about 200 of them with known mutations, and almost every single one of them breed specific, this is crucial information.

lol you've been doing that research for all of one year (noob) and all of a sudden...

You should know then that a mixed breed is less likely to have breed-related genetic conditions no matter what their mix is. Most of those tests are only going to be useful for breeding, which people are not going to be doing with their shelter dog. You might see the occasional dominant gene that's breed-related (like PKD in Persians) and would show up in mixed breeds, but the majority are recessives that are only really of concern if you're going to breed your animal. And others are pretty unreliable as far as predicting what is going to happen in a particular dog.

I maintain my position, that once a dog is not easily phenotypically recognizable as a breed anymore, you don't need to treat them like a purebred with respect to it influencing your thought on diseases it's more or less likely to have and you certainly don't need to go genetically testing it.

 

[nyanko]

And that's solely talking about breed related disorders, btw, not phenotype-related disorders like I'd consider, say chondrodystrophic breeds and IVDD. If you mix a bunch of dwarf breeds and let them run up and down the stairs and then they come in paraparetic, you're thinking they blew a disk. Same for large-breed fat dogs and hip dysplasia. If you have a big dog that's fat you're thinking hip dysplasia regardless of the breed.

 

[StartingoverVet]

lol you've been doing that research for all of one year (noob) and all of a sudden...

You should know then that a mixed breed is less likely to have breed-related genetic conditions no matter what their mix is. Most of those tests are only going to be useful for breeding, which people are not going to be doing with their shelter dog. You might see the occasional dominant gene that's breed-related (like PKD in Persians) and would show up in mixed breeds, but the majority are recessives that are only really of concern if you're going to breed your animal. And others are pretty unreliable as far as predicting what is going to happen in a particular dog.

I maintain my position, that once a dog is not easily phenotypically recognizable as a breed anymore, you don't need to treat them like a purebred with respect to it influencing your thought on diseases it's more or less likely to have and you certainly don't need to go genetically testing it.

I mostly agree.... but still mathematically you are still increasing the likelihood of having those autosomal recessive disorders because the alleles are still present in the general population just in much smaller numbers.

 

[FantasyVesperia]

So you guys are saying that it's best to know the breeds because many of these different breeds (mixed and purebred) are prone to different conditions. Right? I'll try to learn the AKC breeds to start out with, and hopefully go on from there.

 

[Audrey007]

I love to watch Dogs 101 and Cats 101 on Animal Planet. I have learned a lot from it. They even mention the breeds main health problem that owners should watch out for when getting a pure bred. They have all the clips on their website as well.

 

[Audrey007]

I learned about the Basenji on Dogs 101...and I sooo want one!!! and the Highlander Cat that is bob tailed and polydactyl....I want one of those too!

 

[nyanko]

I mostly agree.... but still mathematically you are still increasing the likelihood of having those autosomal recessive disorders because the alleles are still present in the general population just in much smaller numbers.

That's not necessarily true, depending on how recent the mutation is and how much phylogenetic time is between the breeds' common ancestral population..

And besides, I'm still not sold on the utility of genetic testing to predict disease in the vast majority of diseases out there, even for purebred dogs, even as a geneticist.

edit: sometimes even the same disease has different mutations in different breeds!!

 

[ORvetgirl]

I learned a lot of them as a kid by watching dog shows on TV...the big ones like Westminster are televised every year.

 

[Jamr0ckin]

So you guys are saying that it's best to know the breeds because many of these different breeds (mixed and purebred) are prone to different conditions. Right? I'll try to learn the AKC breeds to start out with, and hopefully go on from there.

At UTK I know you take tests on dog, cat, horse, cow, and pig breeds. Not sure if you have to on goat and sheep, but I think they do.

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[StartingoverVet]

edit: sometimes even the same disease has different mutations in different breeds!!

Definitely true.
There are even a few that have different mutations in the SAME breed! (only a handful.. .porphyria in siamese (i think) cats comes to mind, PRA in pitbulls, a few others).

 

[dyachei]

At UTK I know you take tests on dog, cat, horse, cow, and pig breeds. Not sure if you have to on goat and sheep, but I think they do.

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You get goat and sheep, too

 

[Minnerbelle]

I go with the not so important camp. I mean, yeah know the major breeds so you don't sound super ignorant, but being a breeds buff won't even help all that much with breed predisposition of diseases. When you have to memorize 100+ diseases in a month and each has like 2-5 breeds predisposed, being able to picture the breed in your head becomes a bit moot. I try to make sure I know important ones, but to be honest, breed predilection is kind of on the bottom of my priorities list for the most part. Obscure disease that you may see twice in your career in an obscure breed that you may see thrice is totally not worth it imo (unless it's like a super popular topic for some reason that profs love)

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

In vet school, I feel like whenever I saw a breed I didn't recognize, the owner was that much more likely to mention the breed several times during the history or the rest of the appointment. "Oh, but my dog is a Basenji, and Basenjis are allergic to ketamine," or something like that.

Plus, you'll almost never need to ID a breed of dog or cat without seeing their client/patient information form first. You just have to be aware that the owner may not always correctly identify their patient's breed!

And... don't get me started on Sh*tzymaltipoopekes, etc.

 

[Jamr0ckin]

And... don't get me started on Sh*tzymaltipoopekes, etc.

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[Emiloo4]

And... don't get me started on Sh*tzymaltipoopekes, etc.

 

[shortnsweet]

Come to think of it...we were never tested on cat and dog breeds....only cows and sheep. Those lectures (if you can even call them that ) were terrible...we just sat there for like 6 hours going from picture to picture.

The exam consisted of name this cross breed...what's makes a scottish blackface...ermmmm two sheep? A ram and a ewe?

Though the farmers get particularly offended when you don't know what their sheep is....


I've gotten by with just knowing the major breeds...and I bet you already know most of those by sight anyways. WikiVet has a pretty good page for all animal breeds.

 

[EdinBelle]

I don't think it's necessary to go buy the "Encyclopedia of Dog Breeds" and start studying.. But I do think that recognizing some breeds is important. For example, about 25% of collie dogs will experience neurotoxicity from ivermectin. So, it's important to recognize a collie when giving out heartworm prevention, diagnosing demodex, etc.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Speaking of breeds, I LMAO when I saw an article on PUBMED examining "hypoallergenic dogs". Basically they found no difference in the amount of pet dander in households with so-called hypoallergenic dogs vs non-hypoallergenic dogs. (study is a year old so I am probably not saying anything y'all don't know).

So much for designer breeding hypoallergenic dogs.

But please, I will be happy to charge you $5000 for one anyway.

Here is the link, but you need a subscription to view it .
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1081-1206(11)00938-0

 

[hopefulinva]

(I really love that Basenjis popped up twice in this thread - yay. <3)

I see your owner-will-let-me-know-the-dog's-breed and raise you a Silver Lab.

"Oh, I've never heard of a silver lab! Is he a Wimeraner-Lab pup?"

"No. He's a silver lab."

Okay.

Somewhat OT - who determines (and at what point) when a common mix becomes a new breed, anyway?

 

[rugbychick16]

In vet school, I feel like whenever I saw a breed I didn't recognize, the owner was that much more likely to mention the breed several times during the history or the rest of the appointment.

True story from one of my last rotations a few months ago....

Me: Walk into the exam room and introduce myself to a new client and patient

Client: "Hi. I know it says husky cross on the form because they didn't have her breed in the computer, but she's not a husky cross. She's a Native American Indian Dog. Not a husky. See her pretty coloring?"

Me. "She is very pretty. I've never heard of that breed befo..."

Client:" She's a mixture of wolf and husky and the special ancient dogs that Native Americans used to use. See her agouti color pattern? That means she is the most special and unique coloring of the NAID. The agouti colored ones were revered as spirit dogs by the Native Americans because they could communicate with the ancestors. Medicine men owned them. They're very special smart dogs


....and you get the point. She was a very nice owner, even though her "wolf cross" tried to take my arm off several times post TPLO surgery

 

[nyanko]

Somewhat OT - who determines (and at what point) when a common mix becomes a new breed, anyway?

I mean the real answer to this is when it's not a mix anymore...it's kind of hard to define aside from the requirement that the offspring breed true to some written standard that the sire and dam also hold to.

Can you define "common mix" for me?

 

[Tiger369]

True story from one of my last rotations a few months ago....

Me: Walk into the exam room and introduce myself to a new client and patient

Client: "Hi. I know it says husky cross on the form because they didn't have her breed in the computer, but she's not a husky cross. She's a Native American Indian Dog. Not a husky. See her pretty coloring?"

Me. "She is very pretty. I've never heard of that breed befo..."

Client:" She's a mixture of wolf and husky and the special ancient dogs that Native Americans used to use. See her agouti color pattern? That means she is the most special and unique coloring of the NAID. The agouti colored ones were revered as spirit dogs by the Native Americans because they could communicate with the ancestors. Medicine men owned them. They're very special smart dogs


....and you get the point. She was a very nice owner, even though her "wolf cross" tried to take my arm off several times post TPLO surgery

Well, I guess Vets can learn something new from their clients. lol. Btw, have any of you ever heard of the dog breed Alaskan Klee Kai? They are sooooo cute! I want one someday.

 

[EdinBelle]

My favorite one is "Could you change my dog's breed in your system, please. He's an Italian Greyhound, NOT a whippet." [whispers to husband] "You think she would know, given she works at a vets office.."

OHHH... My bad.

 

[Bill59]

How important is knowing dog/cat breeds?

The only thing you need to know is this: the dog's breed is whatever the client says it is.

 

[LetItSnow]

The only thing you need to know is this: the dog's breed is whatever the client says it is.

Spoken like someone who knows how to talk to clients.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Well, I guess Vets can learn something new from their clients. lol. Btw, have any of you ever heard of the dog breed Alaskan Klee Kai? They are sooooo cute! I want one someday.

Is it sad that I only know the breed because they get Factor VII deficiency and the mutation for it is known? I guess.

I am sure if you get one you will hear.. "oh, is that a miniature husky?" about a million times. Take my word for it (see next post).

 

[StartingoverVet]

My favorite one is "Could you change my dog's breed in your system, please. He's an Italian Greyhound, NOT a whippet." [whispers to husband] "You think she would know, given she works at a vets office.."

OHHH... My bad.

Well as an IG owner, I guess I am more sympathetic. They hear it a million times (miniature whippet, or miniature greyhound or just whippet).

And do you really want people to expect you to be more ignorant than you are?

Of course, I understand your point since I couldn't tell any of those little white dogs apart, but it is not that unreasonable for clients to expect people in the profession to be more knowledgeable.

Just practice smiling, and saying "yes" a lot. It is good practice for being married as well!

 

[EdinBelle]

Well as an IG owner, I guess I am more sympathetic. They hear it a million times (miniature whippet, or miniature greyhound or just whippet).

And do you really want people to expect you to be more ignorant than you are?

Of course, I understand your point since I couldn't tell any of those little white dogs apart, but it is not that unreasonable for clients to expect people in the profession to be more knowledgeable.

Just practice smiling, and saying "yes" a lot. It is good practice for being married as well!

LOL! I've gotten pretty good at the smile and nod. I threw in a "Oh, I'm so sorry. How could I mistake the two??!" to change the atmosphere of the appointment.

I definitely understand. I have a male golden retriever who is a little small at only 65 lbs full grown. And I get extremely annoyed when everyone calls him a girl (even after my corrections). So, I bought him a big camouflage collar =D

 

[PetPony]

With every GS I've had here with the guide dog program (sometimes I have different ones for just a day), people ask what his name is. So far, all of them have been girls. But they always think that GS must be male!

My friend put a big pink bow on hers once to get people to understand it's a girl, but instead they just asked why anybody would do that to such a big boy!

 

[tigerkissedqt]

I love to watch Dogs 101 and Cats 101 on Animal Planet. I have learned a lot from it. They even mention the breeds main health problem that owners should watch out for when getting a pure bred. They have all the clips on their website as well.

I love that show too! I work at a doggy daycare so I have gotten a lot of exposure to learning/identifying dog breeds, but living in a semi-rural area of North Dakota I don't see many "rare" breeds coming through. Thanks to this show I now know what a Xoloitzcuintli is! ( Not to mention how to spell and pronounce it! haha )

But it never ceases to amaze me when customers call to book a grooming appointment and I ask "What kind of dog is it" --"I don't know", "How big is it?" --"I don't know, not real big", "About how much does it weigh?" --"How should I know?", "Well... does it have long hair or short?" --"I guess short? But it's kinda long, maybe it's long" Grrr... How do you not know ANY of those answers? I guess the point I'm getting at here is you can't always rely on an owner to know what they have, and often the ones that are so sure it's one thing turn out to be completely not that when they actually bring the dog in. Also, they think every mutt is a terrier cross.

 

[Tiger369]

Is it sad that I only know the breed because they get Factor VII deficiency and the mutation for it is known? I guess.

I am sure if you get one you will hear.. "oh, is that a miniature husky?" about a million times. Take my word for it (see next post).

Awe, that's so sad. But yeah, I already had the feeling people would be like "is that a miniature husky?" lol!

Just practice smiling, and saying "yes" a lot. It is good practice for being married as well!

Too bad I probably won't be like that when I'm married. But, I'll definitely act that way around my clients.