Dual applying to Vet and Med School?

[riderrapidash]

Hello, sorry if this is a question that's already been asked but I am currently a pre-vet student planning on applying to vet school; however lately, I have been looking into also applying to medical school as I have always had an interest in human surgery and oncology which has grown since starting undergrad. However, I know this generally isn't looked upon favorably (got absolutely decimated with downvotes posting about it on Reddit, lol) so was hoping to get some constructive input here. Although most of my experience is in veterinary medicine, I've also gained research experience working in a UC veterinary lab and currently am working as an undergrad RISE fellow synthesizing cancer antagonists in a biomed lab and will (hopefully) be published in 2023. All of my pre reqs will line up, and I may even graduate early with a minor in physical science since I usually take 20-21 units a semester. My GPA is currently a 3.9 (would be a 4.0 had I not been hospitalized during lockdown during a virtual group project) and I can get good letters of req. Haven't taken MCAT yet but plan to this summer or fall. Any input would be greatly appreciated! I have more info (such as lifeguard and law firm work, extracurriculars, etc) so if any more is needed I'll answer! I know this can make me seem like I'm not passionate about either, but in truth I'm honestly just strongly called to both and would love the opportunity to earn my DVM or MD. Thanks so much in advance!

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[guytakingboards]

I wouldn't say you're not passionate about either...I honestly don't know. But if you think the two fields are remotely similar between training and a 30 year career I'd strongly believe you haven't done your homework on what they entail.

This is a big deal. This isn't a decision to be made on a whim or without certainly. Just because you're coming up on a branch point and are potentially qualified to go either way doesn't mean you should apply to both. (and that's okay. no one has to know exactly what they want to do with the rest of their career just because they're coming to the end of college).

My advice, if you're really this conflicted, is to take some time and potentially delay applying to graduate schools this cycle. It's much less of a sacrifice and sunk cost now if you delay applying a year than to apply/attend one over the other.... and then five years in decide you'd rather be doing the other field.

 

[riderrapidash]

I'll try to elaborate a bit more as I know my original post lacked some information. I've done a ton of research about vet school and its requirements (I've wanted to go into it since I was around 9) and I've poured around 700 hours solely on clinical experience with it (so far). I'm obviously not as familiar with the medical side (schooling wise), but the main reason I want to apply to both is I'm strongly interested in both animal and human health (particularly cancer surgery and treatment) and I really and truly think I would be suited for either. You're definitely 100% correct- it's an incredibly big decision and nobody would want to regret the path they've taken. Granted, I know that a DVM is pretty much an entirely different planet than an MD and the careers are too- but is it feasible to apply to both? I've seen posts on these forums about people who have been accepted to both and honestly I would be equally as passionate in either program I might be accepted into. As strange as it is, I'd be truly grateful to have the opportunity to attend either and I believe my passion would follow me. I just want to become one of them after undergrad (doing all I can to not have to reapply, if I settle solely on vet school I plan on applying to every US and international school I'm eligible for, not to sound crazy). Sorry to ramble, I really appreciate your time and input.

 

[imidazzle92]

It's extremely tiring/draining to write a personal statement/activities section/40+ secondary essays, take CASPer, get LORs, and interview just for medical school. I can't imagine it would be feasible to do vet school apps alongside this.

If you were accepted to both, which would you pick?

 

[riderrapidash]

It's extremely tiring/draining to write a personal statement/activities section/40+ secondary essays, take CASPer, get LORs, and interview just for medical school. I can't imagine it would be feasible to do vet school apps alongside this.

If you were accepted to both, which would you pick?

You're completely right about that. Honestly thinking about it now I'd probably divide them somehow just due to that immense amount of work just to apply. And it depends on several things but most likely vet school, if I can actually get in.

 

[imidazzle92]

You're completely right about that. Honestly thinking about it now I'd probably divide them somehow just due to that immense amount of work just to apply. And it depends on several things but most likely vet school, if I can actually get in.

If you divide them up, you're going to be a weaker applicant for both and decrease your chances of getting into either. Just pick one and stick with it.

 

[riderrapidash]

If you divide them up, you're going to be a weaker applicant for both and decrease your chances of getting into either. Just pick one and stick with it.

Thank you I agree. I'd love to put in the max effort for both but don't want to stretch myself thin and potentially take a huge hit to my GPA because of it. How did you stay positive about applying? I'm doing all I possibly can to make myself a good candidate but I always just find myself thinking it's just for a shot at getting admission or being completely crushed if I get denied everywhere.

 

[imidazzle92]

Thank you I agree. I'd love to put in the max effort for both but don't want to stretch myself thin and potentially take a huge hit to my GPA because of it. How did you stay positive about applying? I'm doing all I possibly can to make myself a good candidate but I always just find myself thinking it's just for a shot at getting admission or being completely crushed if I get denied everywhere.

It's all about planning and preparation.
Are your grades not where you want them to be? Lighten the courseload/scale back on other responsibilities/seek help/etc
Are you a procrastinator? Figure out how to stop procrastinating
Are your essays weak? Seek help
Have backup plans for when you have setbacks/when things don't work out.

Read advice from successful pre-vet applicants on SDN/other forums. If you do your research, you'll get an idea of how to model a strong application for yourself.

If you overprepare, you'll be in a good spot.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

Thank you I agree. I'd love to put in the max effort for both but don't want to stretch myself thin and potentially take a huge hit to my GPA because of it. How did you stay positive about applying? I'm doing all I possibly can to make myself a good candidate but I always just find myself thinking it's just for a shot at getting admission or being completely crushed if I get denied everywhere.

Choose what you want to apply to --med or vet-- and stick to it. Apply to just one of the two so you can compose the strongest application. Applying to both is exactly setting yourself up for getting denied everywhere.

 

[operaman]

You would do well to focus on vet school. Sounds like that is where your heart is. If you get rejected then maybe regroup, but for now you need to make a decision or hit the pause button.

The paths and the careers are so vastly different. Someone who applies to both betrays that they know very little about either.

If the med school thing is new and maybe a contender, it’s not a bad idea to take some extra time and shadow and volunteer and see if the day to day appeals to you. Lots of people change from one to the other at some point. Nobody actually makes an application to both because it makes no sense. It’s like applying to be a fireman and a pilot at the same time.

Pick the one you really want and go with it. There are times to concurrently apply for a backup plan. This isn’t one of them.

 

[ciestar]

Start some shadowing and get clinical experience with people (as Im assuming your clinical experience is with animals). This will give you more insight.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Moving to pre-med

 

[eigen]

Given that it (seems like) you have relatively little clinical experience on the human medicine side of things, I would think that you're a much stronger applicant for vet school than med school.

Similarly, it's also likely that taking the time to get the clinical experience you would need to be competitive for medical school would negatively impact your vet school application (by definition, it's time you can't spend expanding your experiences there).

If you truly think you'd be happy in both careers, then go with the one you're better prepared for and stand a better chance of getting into.

If, on the other hand, the subtext is that you think you'd be happier in human medicine, then switch and focus on that.

While there are a lot of overlaps between the two fields, the day to day is going to be exceptionally different- as others have said- so you need to decide what you want to spend your days doing and what job is a better fit for you.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I agree that first you should do a lot of shadowing and informational interviewing. But doing well with your classes with keep your options open. Message if you want any advice.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Hello, sorry if this is a question that's already been asked but I am currently a pre-vet student planning on applying to vet school; however lately, I have been looking into also applying to medical school as I have always had an interest in human surgery and oncology which has grown since starting undergrad. However, I know this generally isn't looked upon favorably (got absolutely decimated with downvotes posting about it on Reddit, lol) so was hoping to get some constructive input here. Although most of my experience is in veterinary medicine, I've also gained research experience working in a UC veterinary lab and currently am working as an undergrad RISE fellow synthesizing cancer antagonists in a biomed lab and will (hopefully) be published in 2023. All of my pre reqs will line up, and I may even graduate early with a minor in physical science since I usually take 20-21 units a semester. My GPA is currently a 3.9 (would be a 4.0 had I not been hospitalized during lockdown during a virtual group project) and I can get good letters of req. Haven't taken MCAT yet but plan to this summer or fall. Any input would be greatly appreciated! I have more info (such as lifeguard and law firm work, extracurriculars, etc) so if any more is needed I'll answer! I know this can make me seem like I'm not passionate about either, but in truth I'm honestly just strongly called to both and would love the opportunity to earn my DVM or MD. Thanks so much in advance!

I would advise you to take a year or two to shadow physicians (at my medical school, matriculants average around 120ish hours), gain some solid human clinical medicine experience (at my medical school, matriculants average around 800 hours), and speak to vets and physicians to understand how these careers and the training are very different. You will be better served by focusing on one field or the other so that you can develop the strongest application possible for that field. And you’ll need to be able to articulate strong reasons for one or the other field; my wife sits on the admissions committee at one of our Arizona medical schools and she will occasionally interview an applicant who for what ever reason, has applied to pharmacy school and medicine or PA school and medicine; these interviews don’t go well for the interviewee and they tend to come across as flighty and not having given sufficient thought to what it is they really want to do.

 

[musoem]

May I ask which specialty do you envision yourself working in if you attend and finish Vet School? Because there are routes where you can work in surgery, oncology, and research even as a veterinarian. Some examples would be Lab Animal Vet working for academia/federal government/biotech companies or Veterinary Oncologists working for specialty hospitals/universities/private practices. I definitely recommend shadowing these professionals if you are interested; the same goes for human medicine so you can get a better idea of what their lifestyles are like.

And I hate bringing financial costs into this, but it is crucial since it will affect the next 20-30 years of your life. Depending on where you go for vet school or med school, both will cost you around $250k-400k in student loans. Starting salary for a DVM is around 120k (higher in major cities) and for specialists, it's probably around $140k-220k. Good thing is that GP and ER Vets do not need residency after they graduate. But for specialists, they typically complete 2 years of internships and 3 years of residency getting minimum wage (~$35k-45k). So, if you do plan on going this route just be mentally prepared for the debt-to-income ratio.

I'm not super familiar with MD/DO but you will need 4-5 years of residency no matter which field you choose. Residents in human med also get paid poorly (avg around 50-65k) but once they complete their training, they can make 6x their residency salary (I’m not going to estimate this since there are many outliers). Obviously, med school debt is incredibly burdensome but compared to the vet field, their debt-to-income ratio is more manageable.

I don’t know if any of this information helped lol. But when I shadowed a lab animal vet in undergrad, I truly fell in love with the field. Her daily tasks involved overseeing biomed research studies, performing clinical/surgical duties, and improving/designing animal studies. Obviously, my mind and future goals will change a billion times when I’m actually in vet school, you probably will too. I think for now, it is crucial for you to speak with as many healthcare professionals as possible both DVMs and MDs.

 

[riderrapidash]

Start some shadowing and get clinical experience with people (as Im assuming your clinical experience is with animals). This will give you more insight.

Anything with patients supervised by physicians is countable, right? Sorry, I know it's a stupid question- but I worked (some volunteer prior to employment) as an EMR lifeguard for a resort and worked with contracted physicians for a total of around (I'll verify records) 400-450 hours. It was a lot of CPR, injury treatment, triage etc. but I got to work for and shadow physicians there for more advanced emergency care. I plan on volunteering at a hospital or even working as a scribe, I was just curious if this could be put on my applications.

 

[riderrapidash]

I would advise you to take a year or two to shadow physicians (at my medical school, matriculants average around 120ish hours), gain some solid human clinical medicine experience (at my medical school, matriculants average around 800 hours), and speak to vets and physicians to understand how these careers and the training are very different. You will be better served by focusing on one field or the other so that you can develop the strongest application possible for that field. And you’ll need to be able to articulate strong reasons for one or the other field; my wife sits on the admissions committee at one of our Arizona medical schools and she will occasionally interview an applicant who for what ever reason, has applied to pharmacy school and medicine or PA school and medicine; these interviews don’t go well for the interviewee and they tend to come across as flighty and not having given sufficient thought to what it is they really want to do.

Thank you, that's extremely helpful advice. I still have time left before I apply and so over summer I'll likely make a decision of where to work so I can hone in on which program to apply to.

 

[riderrapidash]

May I ask which specialty do you envision yourself working in if you attend and finish Vet School? Because there are routes where you can work in surgery, oncology, and research even as a veterinarian. Some examples would be Lab Animal Vet working for academia/federal government/biotech companies or Veterinary Oncologists working for specialty hospitals/universities/private practices. I definitely recommend shadowing these professionals if you are interested; the same goes for human medicine so you can get a better idea of what their lifestyles are like.

And I hate bringing financial costs into this, but it is crucial since it will affect the next 20-30 years of your life. Depending on where you go for vet school or med school, both will cost you around $250k-400k in student loans. Starting salary for a DVM is around 120k (higher in major cities) and for specialists, it's probably around $140k-220k. Good thing is that GP and ER Vets do not need residency after they graduate. But for specialists, they typically complete 2 years of internships and 3 years of residency getting minimum wage (~$35k-45k). So, if you do plan on going this route just be mentally prepared for the debt-to-income ratio.

I'm not super familiar with MD/DO but you will need 4-5 years of residency no matter which field you choose. Residents in human med also get paid poorly (avg around 50-65k) but once they complete their training, they can make 6x their residency salary (I’m not going to estimate this since there are many outliers). Obviously, med school debt is incredibly burdensome but compared to the vet field, their debt-to-income ratio is more manageable.

I don’t know if any of this information helped lol. But when I shadowed a lab animal vet in undergrad, I truly fell in love with the field. Her daily tasks involved overseeing biomed research studies, performing clinical/surgical duties, and improving/designing animal studies. Obviously, my mind and future goals will change a billion times when I’m actually in vet school, you probably will too. I think for now, it is crucial for you to speak with as many healthcare professionals as possible both DVMs and MDs.

As for veterinary specialties, my first choice would be large animal surgery and my second choice would be small animal surgery; I'm pretty set on getting a specialization as I've helped perform spays, neuters, lipoma removals and dental surgeries and with research I really enjoy the surgical aspects of it. For human medicine I would want my first choice to be general surgery and my second to be cardiothoracic surgery. Either way, I'd like to be an emergency surgeon as I thrive in high pressure and fast paced environments and wouldn't be too concerned about work life balance and would fully commit myself. As far as costs go I'd want to stay in state, but I would take out loans or join the military or something to pay them off. And that helped a ton! Thank you for your reply!

 

[riderrapidash]

It's all about planning and preparation.
Are your grades not where you want them to be? Lighten the courseload/scale back on other responsibilities/seek help/etc
Are you a procrastinator? Figure out how to stop procrastinating
Are your essays weak? Seek help
Have backup plans for when you have setbacks/when things don't work out.

Read advice from successful pre-vet applicants on SDN/other forums. If you do your research, you'll get an idea of how to model a strong application for yourself.

If you overprepare, you'll be in a good spot.

Thank you, I can give some of my stats here. My overall GPA is currently a 3.93 with my science GPA being around a 3.85 (need to calculate it and see if GE classes counted as "science"). I have about 900 hours of veterinary experience from working with vets, 250 hours of research experience from working in labs, and 400-450 hours of clinical experience from being an EMR and working with/shadowing physicians (all and counting). Through my research fellowships I attend writing workshops and I've been given mainly positive feedback. My backup plans were possibly to go to a Carribean school if I wasn't accepted into a DVM/MD/DO program but I've sinced learned that's a pretty bad idea and would make getting a residency much harder, but I've sinced looked into pharmacy schools as I'm passionate about chemistry and just don't want to take a year off. I plan on taking the GRE most likely in August and the MCAT in winter. I've taken at least 20 units per semester except for my first freshman semester and have kept a decent GPA and plan to keep it as high as possible; I'd have a 4.0 if I hadn't have gotten COVID and wasn't hospitalized during group projects during my second semester (my professors didn't really care, lol).

 

[LizzyM]

Thought experiment: It is sometime in 2023 and you have offers of admission from your first choice vet school and your first choice MD school. With scholarships there is essentially no difference is cost. Which do you choose?

Apply to schools (vet or MD) that would be your choice if you had offers from both.