DVM, PhD, or both?

[kaitlind]

Hello!

I am currently a Junior at the University of Arizona studying Animal Science. My plan all along has been to go to vet school, but now I am really questioning whether or not that is the right choice for me. My ultimate goal is to become an EIS officer for the CDC and eventually work with government agencies to investigate disease outbreaks and emerging diseases, especially zoonotic diseases. I am really interested in the spread of disease among production animals, but am not sure if I need the clinical education I would get in vet school. Either way, I would like to first get a Masters of Public Health degree, I'm just not sure how to best reach my ultimate career goal.

At the U of A, I have a 3.95 GPA, several years experience working in a lab, officer positions in several clubs, a paid tutoring position, and 1000+ hours of vet/animal experience. Last summer I was an intern at one of Virginia Tech's Extension Centers, and this summer I have been accepted as an intern for the USDA. I think that I would be a competitive vet school applicant, but I know that vet school is so expensive for out of state residents, and I am not sure if paying that would advance me towards my career goals.

Any advice is much appreciated- I was planning on applying to vet school this cycle so I am feeling pretty stressed about this!

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[Gwenevre]

You should do some more research into the job you want and the education requirements for that. Also, if you do have to get a DVM, you can do DVM + Master/PhD in public health at the same time. Some schools do offer that program.

 

[Lupin21]

You should really look into what the requirements for obtaining those jobs are. If you do not need the veterinary education, I would think your time and money would be better used in achieving only what you needed for getting the job. While the veterinary degree would certainly be a huge benefit, there is so much time spent in the other aspects of medicine besides Public Health and Epidemiology that you might get frustrated with your decision, and it is hard enough to maintain motivation even wanting to learn all those things.

Your USDA shadowing I think will help you, and just keep seeking out multiple opinions of people who are already doing the types of jobs you want to do.

Good Luck with you decision!

 

[thedrjojo]

Zoonotics at the CDC often are MD/PhD's

 

[Lupin21]

This thread may be helpful:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/anyone-done-an-eis-fellowship-at-cdc.867300/

 

[Foxhunter]

Zoonotics at the CDC often are MD/PhD's

May be sampling bias, you probably only interact with/know about the MD/PhDs. There are probably more MDs than DVMS, but I bet you're underestimating DVM involvement and likely substantially.

I've met/talked to/heard about many more DVM/PhDs working at the CDC in Zoonotics and Food Safety than MD/PhDs.

 

[Glammyre]

I'm interested in the EIS as well! I've looked up the job requirements before on their page, although I'm not finding the information now since they updated.

Their old page said they'd accept

• MDs
• DVM with MPH
• PhD in a relevant field (epidemiology and biostatistics were named)
• (I think) Non-doctors in a healthcare profession (nurses, MPH grads, etc.) with a couple of years of experience

I've had multiple people (school epi professor and a SCAVMA speaker) tell me that DVMs need the MPH because, when the public health field opened to veterinarians, many of the applicants were too focused on clinical care and didn't have a good enough grasp on statistics. The CDC added the MPH requirement to make sure that the veterinarians applying are serious about the position.

I think part of the answer would depend on what you want to do within public health. A DVM or MD would give you a good background in individual medicine which can help provide some context for population health problems. However, it is a huge investment. A PhD would give you the stats background and you wouldn't have as large of a debt load, but you'd have a much narrower focus. Once you pick a thesis project, you'd be focusing on, say, prevalence and risk factors for cardiovascular complications in pregnant mothers, or designing and distributing better education materials to teach people how to avoid parasitic infections.

A third option is a dual degree program - DVM/PhD or MD/PhD. Many of these will provide at least partial support for tuition during your (vet) med school years. I think most medical schools are near a school pf public health, as well as some veterinary schools.

I started veterinary school before I named my interest in public health, so my path is a little different. My current plan is to complete a PhD in epidemiology after I graduate. I'm going for a PhD instead of an MPH because I want the more in-depth knowledge of the field and because I know I'm interested in research and could very possibly eventually end up in a primary research career. I have to admit that, had I known my current career goals earlier, I might have taken a more direct path(MPH to DPh or PhD). However, I certainly don't regret my choices - I love that my DVM will provide a broader base of knowledge to interpret what I learn during a PhD.

 

[Skimble]

As far as cost, couldn't you apply as a WICHE applicant? I don't know much about that program, but my understanding is you have several schools that you can apply to and get lower than OOS tuition.

 

[jmo1012]

I'm interested in the EIS as well! I've looked up the job requirements before on their page, although I'm not finding the information now since they updated.

Their old page said they'd accept

• MDs
• DVM with MPH
• PhD in a relevant field (epidemiology and biostatistics were named)
• (I think) Non-doctors in a healthcare profession (nurses, MPH grads, etc.) with a couple of years of experience

I've had multiple people (school epi professor and a SCAVMA speaker) tell me that DVMs need the MPH because, when the public health field opened to veterinarians, many of the applicants were too focused on clinical care and didn't have a good enough grasp on statistics. The CDC added the MPH requirement to make sure that the veterinarians applying are serious about the position.

I think part of the answer would depend on what you want to do within public health. A DVM or MD would give you a good background in individual medicine which can help provide some context for population health problems. However, it is a huge investment. A PhD would give you the stats background and you wouldn't have as large of a debt load, but you'd have a much narrower focus. Once you pick a thesis project, you'd be focusing on, say, prevalence and risk factors for cardiovascular complications in pregnant mothers, or designing and distributing better education materials to teach people how to avoid parasitic infections.

A third option is a dual degree program - DVM/PhD or MD/PhD. Many of these will provide at least partial support for tuition during your (vet) med school years. I think most medical schools are near a school pf public health, as well as some veterinary schools.

I started veterinary school before I named my interest in public health, so my path is a little different. My current plan is to complete a PhD in epidemiology after I graduate. I'm going for a PhD instead of an MPH because I want the more in-depth knowledge of the field and because I know I'm interested in research and could very possibly eventually end up in a primary research career. I have to admit that, had I known my current career goals earlier, I might have taken a more direct path(MPH to DPh or PhD). However, I certainly don't regret my choices - I love that my DVM will provide a broader base of knowledge to interpret what I learn during a PhD.

i think its ridiculous to say that a DVM needs an MPH but not an MD, DVMs have leaps and bounds more public health training than do MDs (case in point, I had an MD tell me recently that I could get a "sore throat" from my patients...right...and exactly what does that mean? because i can tell you alllll about the zoonotic potential animals and humans have)

 

[Glammyre]

i think its ridiculous to say that a DVM needs an MPH but not an MD, DVMs have leaps and bounds more public health training than do MDs (case in point, I had an MD tell me recently that I could get a "sore throat" from my patients...right...and exactly what does that mean? because i can tell you alllll about the zoonotic potential animals and humans have)

I thought it was ridiculous at first too. However, I've had multiple people tell me that, when the CDC opened up applications to veterinarians without restrictions, they got a lot of veterinarians going through mid-life crises that didn't remember public health from vet school. They added the MPH to make sure only veterinarians that were interested and invested in the subject would apply.

 

[Jess Monster]

i think its ridiculous to say that a DVM needs an MPH but not an MD, DVMs have leaps and bounds more public health training than do MDs

That's not really true. Veterinarians might receive more education about specific public health issues like zoonotic diseases, but when it comes to the whole field of public health, which includes things like healthcare policy and law, health administration, health behavior, human services, etc., the average DVM education is not going to touch those topics. MD's may not get a ton of public health education, but, simply by virtue of working within human medicine, they are more exposed to public health and have far easier access to public health institutions.