Easy & mediocre or prestigious & difficult undergrad?

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SM555 said:
deleted the post, don't want to completely hijack the thread. Point was to show the pros of an easier school and how you can spend your time in other areas that can benefit you down the road. Definitely not bashing a hard school though, it came off life I was.
You can do both but there's no arguing that the easier school will allow you to do more of the non-degree things that you are interested in, for me it was learning the business side of dentistry.
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I mean, yes, that can be the case if you're dead set on dentistry from the moment you enter college, but I don't think that's often the case. I'll agree that an easier school leaves more room for learning/doing other activities, but a more prestigious school could arguably offer you better opportunities in terms of connections/resources/etc.
 
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studentdent00 said:
Btw, when I say "prestigious" universities, I mean tier 1 schools like all the Ivy League schools, MIT, Duke, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, etc, NOT some state schools like Ohio State or University of Florida. The only state school that's nationally recognized as "prestigious" is UC Berkeley, in my honest opinion. So unless you go to one of those tier 1 schools (aka Top 20 PRIVATE), please don't bring up your undergrad experience to make a point against attending an easier school. It's just comical.
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Hey, if you consider UC Berkeley prestigious then you'd have to shoehorn in UF, OSU and a few others since their all considered "public ivies."
 
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ktran17 said:
Berkeley is levels ahead of UF and OSU. It's ranked number 3 in the world at least by US news and consistently ranks top 25 in the world by most ranking reports.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...restigious-difficult-undergrad.1126717/page-2
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Oh I have no doubt, just throwing it out there that there is a category that groups them all together, including UMN and a few other schools. Clearly UF/OSU/UMN aren't the pinnacles of academic achievement but they are better than a lot of other schools.
 
BrazilianRider said:
Oh I have no doubt, just throwing it out there that there is a category that groups them all together, including UMN and a few other schools. Clearly UF/OSU/UMN aren't the pinnacles of academic achievement but they are better than a lot of other schools.
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Yeah, I think the argument in this thread stems from the fact that top tier and "less prestigious" aren't properly defined. No one is advocating going to an online UG or something like University of Phoenix. As long as its a decent institution (most state schools) you'll be fine. You don't have to go to MIT or Cal Tech, both of which are notorious for grade deflation just to get into dental school.
 
-sipping my cup of tea and watch the drama unfolds-
 
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studentdent00 said:
Btw, when I say "prestigious" universities, I mean tier 1 schools like all the Ivy League schools, MIT, Duke, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, etc, NOT some state schools like Ohio State or University of Florida. The only state school that's nationally recognized as "prestigious" is UC Berkeley, in my honest opinion. So unless you go to one of those tier 1 schools (aka Top 20 PRIVATE), please don't bring up your undergrad experience to make a point against attending an easier school. It's just comical.
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Oh, I'm sorry, did you actually attend any of those "non-prestigious" schools? I go to OSU and our education is top notch. You're so incredibly closed-minded and arrogant. THAT'S what's comical. I would never tell anyone who goes to UF, for instance, that they're not receiving a wonderful, prestigious education. Let the DAT determine that. Oh, and OSU is one of the top 20 public schools in the country, it's incredibly cheap, and has produced a mass amount of important people. So bye.
 
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DentalGirl5 said:
Oh, I'm sorry, did you actually attend any of those "non-prestigious" schools? I go to OSU and our education is top notch. You're so incredibly closed-minded and arrogant. THAT'S what's comical. I would never tell anyone who goes to UF, for instance, that they're not receiving a wonderful, prestigious education. Let the DAT determine that. Oh, and OSU is one of the top 20 public schools in the country, it's incredibly cheap, and has produced a mass amount of important people. So bye.
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:troll:
 
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DentalGirl5 said:
Oh, I'm sorry, did you actually attend any of those "non-prestigious" schools? I go to OSU and our education is top notch. You're so incredibly closed-minded and arrogant. THAT'S what's comical. I would never tell anyone who goes to UF, for instance, that they're not receiving a wonderful, prestigious education. Let the DAT determine that. Oh, and OSU is one of the top 20 public schools in the country, it's incredibly cheap, and has produced a mass amount of important people. So bye.
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If you don't go to a Tier 1 school, you're a peasant. :rolleyes:
 
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I happen to think those students who end up in the health profession and attended whatever "prestigious" undergrad perhaps aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. They end up in the same profession but just spent three times as much money (or likely their parents' money) getting there.

Here are some secrets about "prestigious" schools that no one who attends one wants to admit. If you're a science major or pre-professional, you're learning the exact same material at every single school. Why? Because science is about published facts. And there is no material that Harvard has access to that North Dakota Community College does not. Is there some undergraduate organic chemistry concept that Tufts has access to that Auburn does not? Certainly not something in an undergraduate course. And what about the "prestigious" professors at MIT? Well, there's a reason they're "prestigious" and it's not because of their educational aptitude. It's because of how well funded their research is. And for the vast majority, your classes get in the way of their research. But maybe they do care. What are they ultimately teaching you? Kreb's cycle or maybe some upper level molecular biology? Wikipedia and Molecular Biology of the Cell can teach you that. And don't tell me that at your "prestigious" school, high grades are harder to achieve. That implies some knowledge of many, many colleges that you do not attend and thus know nothing about. Your school doesn't curve? Well I guess, according to you, your school is the only school in the world to give you grades directly corresponding to the amount of tested material you know. The tests are harder? Relative to what other schools that you've attended? The professors expect more out of you? That's quite the indictment on the thousands of PhD-carrying professors across the country.

You can get a great education everywhere. And getting admitted into professional school is all about the individual.
 
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Funny thing, we were comparing text books and assignments over Christmas break with friends attending a wide range of schools, small LAC (me and a few others), major huge U's, several Top 20 schools and a few Ivys (friends from high school). Guess what, we all had the same text book for Chem, Bio and O Chem....hummmm. Bonus is, the small LAC grads will graduate with no debt, we are more involved in our schools, hold more leadership positions, have more volunteer time and have all had extensive shadow experience. Those at the Top 20's/Ivy's have yet to get any leadership positions, have no volunteer time and are struggling finding dentists near campus to shadow (or dr's because some of them are pre-med). The small LAC's had 100% placement into med/dental last year (and for the last several years).....so, moral of the story, go where feel you can be the best all around student and don't worry about the name on the sweatshirt....
 
Muggsy Bogues said:
If you're a science major or pre-professional, you're learning the exact same material at every single school. Why? Because science is about published facts.
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Ooooh, someone is bitter.

The material in the textbooks is of course the same. The level of difficulty on an exam? The fact that you have to do better than at least half of the brilliant students in the room to get a B-?

It would absolutely blow you out of the ballpark
 
justsaying2 said:
Ooooh, someone is bitter.

The material in the textbooks is of course the same. The level of difficulty on an exam? The fact that you have to do better than at least half of the brilliant students in the room to get a B-?

It would absolutely blow you out of the ballpark
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Not true...but if it makes you feel better you can think that....:D. I think you would be surprised at the tests other students are taking, and you might find that the blow you out of the water.
 
ajj70 said:
Funny thing, we were comparing text books and assignments over Christmas break with friends attending a wide range of schools, small LAC (me and a few others), major huge U's, several Top 20 schools and a few Ivys (friends from high school). Guess what, we all had the same text book for Chem, Bio and O Chem....hummmm. Bonus is, the small LAC grads will graduate with no debt, we are more involved in our schools, hold more leadership positions, have more volunteer time and have all had extensive shadow experience. Those at the Top 20's/Ivy's have yet to get any leadership positions, have no volunteer time and are struggling finding dentists near campus to shadow (or dr's because some of them are pre-med). The small LAC's had 100% placement into med/dental last year (and for the last several years).....so, moral of the story, go where feel you can be the best all around student and don't worry about the name on the sweatshirt....
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This has got to be a troll
 
Or hows this:

Choose whichever school you'll be happier at for 4 years of undergrad and plan to succeed either way. Why do half these answers seem like all you plan on doing is sitting at a desk studying for undergrad?
 
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Minimize the debt. Period. Money is not an issue? Then go where you will be happy. Chances are, if you have good studying skills, you will carry on yo dschpol.If not, you will change it.
 
I went to regular(not prestigious), but much cheaper university. When asked why I went to such a far-away college from my high school during my interviews, I answered that it's because I wanted to save money for the dental school since entering prestigious dental school was my goal, not prestigious undergraduate school. They all liked that answer and didn't ask any further about it. From what I gather, dental schools care way more about your GPA and DAT scores than the name of your undergraduate school.

So my tip is, save money and go to a cheaper university especially if there's a big difference in price, look around outside your state, too. I graduated with 3.6 GPA with no debt and so far I've had 5 interviews this year and got accepted to one after applying late in December.
 
Muggsy Bogues said:
I happen to think those students who end up in the health profession and attended whatever "prestigious" undergrad perhaps aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. They end up in the same profession but just spent three times as much money (or likely their parents' money) getting there.

Here are some secrets about "prestigious" schools that no one who attends one wants to admit. If you're a science major or pre-professional, you're learning the exact same material at every single school. Why? Because science is about published facts. And there is no material that Harvard has access to that North Dakota Community College does not. Is there some undergraduate organic chemistry concept that Tufts has access to that Auburn does not? Certainly not something in an undergraduate course. And what about the "prestigious" professors at MIT? Well, there's a reason they're "prestigious" and it's not because of their educational aptitude. It's because of how well funded their research is. And for the vast majority, your classes get in the way of their research. But maybe they do care. What are they ultimately teaching you? Kreb's cycle or maybe some upper level molecular biology? Wikipedia and Molecular Biology of the Cell can teach you that. And don't tell me that at your "prestigious" school, high grades are harder to achieve. That implies some knowledge of many, many colleges that you do not attend and thus know nothing about. Your school doesn't curve? Well I guess, according to you, your school is the only school in the world to give you grades directly corresponding to the amount of tested material you know. The tests are harder? Relative to what other schools that you've attended? The professors expect more out of you? That's quite the indictment on the thousands of PhD-carrying professors across the country.

You can get a great education everywhere. And getting admitted into professional school is all about the individual.[/QUOT



I agree to an extent. I have met some students at big schools qho are dumb as rocks but went on to prof school. But those who are actually smart or hardworking, what if they wanted to attend a prestigious school? Maybe their parents went there or they were awarded a scholarship to help pay for that prestigious education.
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justsaying2 said:
Ooooh, someone is bitter.

The material in the textbooks is of course the same. The level of difficulty on an exam? The fact that you have to do better than at least half of the brilliant students in the room to get a B-?

It would absolutely blow you out of the ballpark
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Bitter about what, exactly?
 
Muggsy Bogues said:
I happen to think those students who end up in the health profession and attended whatever "prestigious" undergrad perhaps aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. They end up in the same profession but just spent three times as much money (or likely their parents' money) getting there.

Here are some secrets about "prestigious" schools that no one who attends one wants to admit. If you're a science major or pre-professional, you're learning the exact same material at every single school. Why? Because science is about published facts. And there is no material that Harvard has access to that North Dakota Community College does not. Is there some undergraduate organic chemistry concept that Tufts has access to that Auburn does not? Certainly not something in an undergraduate course. And what about the "prestigious" professors at MIT? Well, there's a reason they're "prestigious" and it's not because of their educational aptitude. It's because of how well funded their research is. And for the vast majority, your classes get in the way of their research. But maybe they do care. What are they ultimately teaching you? Kreb's cycle or maybe some upper level molecular biology? Wikipedia and Molecular Biology of the Cell can teach you that. And don't tell me that at your "prestigious" school, high grades are harder to achieve. That implies some knowledge of many, many colleges that you do not attend and thus know nothing about. Your school doesn't curve? Well I guess, according to you, your school is the only school in the world to give you grades directly corresponding to the amount of tested material you know. The tests are harder? Relative to what other schools that you've attended? The professors expect more out of you? That's quite the indictment on the thousands of PhD-carrying professors across the country.

You can get a great education everywhere. And getting admitted into professional school is all about the individual.
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Absolutely.

I used to hire and work with a lot of people with advanced degrees. Generally, the more prestigious the institutions produced the least competent people. They were usually brilliant, but they couldn't operate well in the outside world. And they leaned on the names of their universities hard. (The exceptions I can think of all came from one underfunded and ignored program at Harvard where students clearly had to figure out a lot of things on their own.)

Meanwhile, the public ivies and state schools in general typically produced smart, self-directed employees. They were usually better at playing nice with others too.

For most programs and most students, there is very little offered at the undergraduate level at more prestigious schools. Most undergraduates aren't learning anything directly applicable to future work or getting involved in research in any meaningful way. And any moderately sized public university has plenty of opportunities to become a well-rounded, educated holder of a piece of paper that says you finished a course of study.
 
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-getting the popcorn ready for the climax- :brb:
 
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General Consensus: Don't go to some random po-dunk liberal arts college or an Ivy, go to a state school/public ivy and save money while still going to a school that has name recognition?
 
Y'all already gave up on the importance of prestige when you chose to become a dentist over a MD.
 
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BrazilianRider said:
General Consensus: Don't go to some random po-dunk liberal arts college or an Ivy, go to a state school/public ivy and save money while still going to a school that has name recognition?
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I'd put it "be awesome no matter where you go to school."
 
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cacazor said:
Y'all already gave up on the importance of prestige when you chose to become a dentist over a MD.
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There it is! Words cannot express how great this comment is.
 
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cacazor said:
Y'all already gave up on the importance of prestige when you chose to become a dentist over a MD.
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I agree with @studentdent00, maybe your interviewers picked up on this attitude and this is why you had such little success this cycle?

Dentistry is a fantastic profession where you can help others in a unique and meaningful way, and I (and everyone else here) am extremely excited to join its ranks.
 
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studentdent00 said:
Dentistry is one of the most noble and most prestigious professions in the world, just not as much as medicine. So your claim that one "gives up" on prestige when choosing dentistry is simply not true. In a 1989 study on occupational prestige by Davis et al., dentists ranked right near judges and professors.
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The point made with that comment was not that dentistry is not prestigious. It was that if prestige is so important that not attending a "prestigious" university is robbing oneself, then choosing dentistry over medicine is as well.
 
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rev_rend said:
The point made with that comment was not that dentistry is not prestigious. It was that if prestige is so important that not attending a "prestigious" university is robbing oneself, then choosing dentistry over medicine is as well.
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By that logic, everyone to whom prestige is important must go to Harvard, not even Yale or MIT.
 
Am I the only one who thinks this post would be a drama worthy of a TV slot?
"The Journey to Dental School - Episode 1: Pre-dents vs Pre-dents"
 
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studentdent00 said:
By that logic, everyone to whom prestige is important must go to Harvard, not even Yale or MIT.
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You're right. It would. And it's not far off of from the argument some people are making here about prestigious schools.
 
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How about an informal research project, what type of school did/are you attending for undergrad, size, etc. How many got into dental school after 1 or 2 cycles this past cycle or 2? Probably impossible to answer for a lot of people, but here, small LAC, 2500 students, past 2 cycles, 100% applicants got in during their first application cycle.
 
People seem to conflate "prestige" with "rigorous academics," and also "hard classes" with "learning a lot."

I'm sure the Ivy League offers fine educations to its students, but at the same time, the Ivy League doesn't have a monopoly on knowledge.
And classes don't have to be impossibly hard for students to learn the concepts central to a pre-dental curriculum.

This is just becoming a dick-measuring contest about "Look how hard I had to work in undergrad. Look at all the things I had to sacrifice because I went to a 'better' undergrad school..."

I think that undergrad should be a time in your life distinct from dental school. If you plan to go to professional school, you will probably use <5% of the things you learned in undergrad there (and that 5% is review in the first week of class...). Instead, your undergraduate experience is a time to learn about yourself, what you really want to do with your life, how the world works, how to cook, how to manage finances, how to take care of yourself, how to interact with others, how to tell whether or not someone is trustworthy. You should explore your campus, your city, and other cities. You should read life-changing books, change up what you want to do with your life 3 or 4 times, discover and rediscover what you value, make mistakes, and just be human for 4 years (give or take) before you go to a demanding professional school.

Your undergrad degree should not consume your life, especially if you plan to go on to professional school. If it does, you're doing something very wrong.
 
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my personal opinion: if you're obsessing with where you went to undergrad if you're a pre-dent (or any pre-health professional student) is just dumb, first off. if you have the $$ and drive, go wherever you want, but just know at the end of the day you're getting a DDS/DMD. it really doesn't matter where you go.

take the time to think---why do you think AADSAS (or any other application service) standardizes gpas using their own scale? you send in your transcript, they standardize it, give you some numbers. these are the SAME numbers that dental schools see. a B is a 3.0 on AADSAS no matter where you go.

take it from someone who was a non-trad applicant at one time and has been classmates with people from everywhere (yes even harvard)---it means nothing. you can argue that a more prestigious school gives you more opportunities, etc. but it's not true. arguing in favor of that just proves that you have an ego. the question at the end of the day is how much money are you willing to spend to satiate your ego?
 
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Toothman2k14 said:
my personal opinion: if you're obsessing with where you went to undergrad if you're a pre-dent (or any pre-health professional student) is just dumb, first off. if you have the $$ and drive, go wherever you want, but just know at the end of the day you're getting a DDS/DMD. it really doesn't matter where you go.

take the time to think---why do you think AADSAS (or any other application service) standardizes gpas using their own scale? you send in your transcript, they standardize it, give you some numbers. these are the SAME numbers that dental schools see. a B is a 3.0 on AADSAS no matter where you go.

take it from someone who was a non-trad applicant at one time and has been classmates with people from everywhere (yes even harvard)---it means nothing. you can argue that a more prestigious school gives you more opportunities, etc. but it's not true. arguing in favor of that just proves that you have an ego. the question at the end of the day is how much money are you willing to spend to satiate your ego?
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I would say that prestige matters more in other fields like business or even grad school than say, medical or dental school. Just my opinion.
 
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going to a more prestigious school would only probably help you for dental school if there was a discrepancy on your application: i.e. high DAT score and a low gpa. the adcom might give you the benefit of the doubt in certain situations. other than that, if you're not on the borderline in the app process, it's all about numbers.

(btw the benefit of the doubt thing--it's actually true).
 
Toothman2k14 said:
going to a more prestigious school would only probably help you for dental school if there was a discrepancy on your application: i.e. high DAT score and a low gpa. the adcom might give you the benefit of the doubt in certain situations. other than that, if you're not on the borderline in the app process, it's all about numbers.

(btw the benefit of the doubt thing--it's actually true).
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I would also say that if they had to compare 2 applicants with the same stats, ec's, etc, then the adcom may give preference to the the applicant with the better alma mater...unless that applicant was a jerk.

I'm not saying to avoid prestigious schools but I know a lot of friends who went to public ivies (which you can say are prestigious among public schools) who have swore on their life that their undergraduate education gave them the tools needed to succeed in dental school. The rigors of that school allowed them to fair better in dental/medical school.
 
DentalLonghorn2014 said:
I would also say that if they had to compare 2 applicants with the same stats, ec's, etc, then the adcom may give preference to the the applicant with the better alma mater...unless that applicant was a jerk.

I'm not saying to avoid prestigious schools but I know a lot of friends who went to public ivies (which you can say are prestigious among public schools) who have swore on their life that their undergraduate education gave them the tools needed to succeed in dental school. The rigors of that school allowed them to fair better in dental/medical school.
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It's 'cause Public Ivies are the best :cool:
 
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public ivy is a stupid term. you have the ivy league, which originally started as a sports conference, and then you have state schools.

disclaimer: i went to a ''public ivy''.
 
Toothman2k14 said:
public ivy is a stupid term. you have the ivy league, which originally started as a sports conference, and then you have state schools.

disclaimer: i went to a ''public ivy''.
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LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU PUBLIC IVIES ROCK :headphone::headphone:
 
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DentalLonghorn2014 said:
I would also say that if they had to compare 2 applicants with the same stats, ec's, etc, then the adcom may give preference to the the applicant with the better alma mater...unless that applicant was a jerk.

I'm not saying to avoid prestigious schools but I know a lot of friends who went to public ivies (which you can say are prestigious among public schools) who have swore on their life that their undergraduate education gave them the tools needed to succeed in dental school. The rigors of that school allowed them to fair better in dental/medical school.
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it doesn't work like that. simply because alma mater isn't something that schools can publish to prospective applicants (to the ADA, or ADEA) to draw them in (unless of course the school is a state school, and state schools usually have in state feeder schools). point is--it won't be used in your favor as a tie breaker.

and i'm telling you, the 'rigors' of any prestigious school mean nothing. going to harvard will not make you do well in dental/medical school.

taking rigorous courses will train you to study more efficiently, and maybe manage your time more efficiently. going to any school and taking extremely rigorous courses will force you to adapt better study habits. that is what will get you into dental school.

as an aside: when you get to dental school, you'll see that any subject can be molded to how a professor prefers to teach it. you may be forced to learn minutia that you've never had to learn before, or maybe you'll be in a situation where a particular subject is taught in a way that reflects more of a dental or clinical perspective.
 
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