Edward Snowden

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D P356

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What are your thoughts on the matter?
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I think what is most shocking about the whole affair is the overall apathy in our society surrounding this. Richard Nixon resigned over an illegal wiretap, yet the NSA has done essentially the same thing with zero oversight, and from what I can tell, almost no repercussion. Americans should be outraged that our government is doing this, and yet most people are more concerned about trivial crap on Facebook and Twitter.
 
I think people care but realize that the government doesn't care and won't respond. They'll enforce the law if they feel like it, ignore the law if the feel like it, and change the law illegally if they feel like it.

If Bush were president they'd never stop talking about it on MSNBC or CNN. Not that Bush wasn't just as bad, but media being in bed with the administration dampens outrage.
 
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D P356 said:
What are your thoughts on the matter?
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Mixed.

We are already living in George Orwell's "1984" yet most people don't realize it yet. He just missed the date it would happen by 30 years. We live in a society with a confusing mix of apathy and intolerance. Superciliousness and perfunctoriness. Where the current generation has been told that their opinion is important and matters and should be shared, but no one wants do anything about it. Truculence and emasculation. We are at a precipice between unbridled narcissism mixed with self-importance and totalitarianism. These long generational cycles are repeating themselves now. People should be afraid not for what our government can do for you, but instead to you.

Edward Snowden is not the champion or hero. He's the bellwether.
 
What's the fear we're supposed to have again? It seems like everyone feels pretty comfortable posting anti-government sentiments on this public forum.
There is unacceptable government intrusion, which we need to be aware of. That questionable balance between safety and overreach isn't going to go away in the world we live in. But this BS babble about totalitarianism and Orwellianism makes me think people don't really know what those things are.
 
Pooh & Annie said:
What's the fear we're supposed to have again? It seems like everyone feels pretty comfortable posting anti-government sentiments on this public forum.
There is unacceptable government intrusion, which we need to be aware of. That questionable balance between safety and overreach isn't going to go away in the world we live in. But this BS babble about totalitarianism and Orwellianism makes me think people don't really know what those things are.
Click to expand...
Your point (that we aren't exactly oppressed today) is well taken, but I think you're missing the larger point.

And that point is an unaccountable surveillance state is a precursor and necessary condition to real oppression. If you meekly put up with it until the first dissident gets his fingers broken, it's too late for a peaceful fix.

We don't need to be "aware" of unacceptable government intrusion - we need to stop it and punish (with prison! and really really big fines!) all of the people, big and small, who think they were mere raindrops in the flood.

A few posts back, geogil mentioned Nixon, but it bears repeating: he resigned the presidency over an event that would be lost in the noise of what the NSA has been doing.

What a difference in the public's general attitude toward government abuse, surveillance, and deception. Watergate was such a horrid scandal that every lesser scandal since still gets tagged with the -gate suffix! And now ... half the public thinks this kind of illegal spying on Americans an OK price to pay for some nebulous anti-terror boogeyman security blanket.

We tolerate too much. The reason the NSA did these obviously illegal things was because they thought they could get away with it, and they knew that even if they got caught, the public would scoff and dismiss the risk and just settle for being passively "aware" and fashionably angry about it. It's lip service to the vigilence necessary to preserve and guarantee freedom for future generations. More raindrops.
 
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You're right, and admittedly "aware" was the wrong word to use.

In reality I think the vast majority of Americans agree that we need to constantly be vigilant about where the government oversteps its boundaries with regards to MANY issues, and confront it when it comes up. I think where people differ is what they think the ultimate goals are of various politicians and government as a whole.

It's reasonable to be angry about this particular issue, but for whatever reason this hasn't got me that fired up. I'm much more concerned with district jerimandering that keeps incredibly ****ty/dangerous politicians in office, and the complete control money seems to have over most decisions made by politicians.
 
AND the polarization of the parties to their radical extremes, which has left the government completely dysfunctional.
 
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Maybe snowden also has some documents on bergdahl as well.....

There is nothing new under the sun. This situation has happened before and will happen again. Definitely an invasion of privacy, but we all know the govt spies on us. Snowden was just a reminder.
 
pgg said:
Your point (that we aren't exactly oppressed today) is well taken, but I think you're missing the larger point.

And that point is an unaccountable surveillance state is a precursor and necessary condition to real oppression. If you meekly put up with it until the first dissident gets his fingers broken, it's too late for a peaceful fix.

We don't need to be "aware" of unacceptable government intrusion - we need to stop it and punish (with prison! and really really big fines!) all of the people, big and small, who think they were mere raindrops in the flood.

A few posts back, geogil mentioned Nixon, but it bears repeating: he resigned the presidency over an event that would be lost in the noise of what the NSA has been doing.

What a difference in the public's general attitude toward government abuse, surveillance, and deception. Watergate was such a horrid scandal that every lesser scandal since still gets tagged with the -gate suffix! And now ... half the public thinks this kind of illegal spying on Americans an OK price to pay for some nebulous anti-terror boogeyman security blanket.

We tolerate too much. The reason the NSA did these obviously illegal things was because they thought they could get away with it, and they knew that even if they got caught, the public would scoff and dismiss the risk and just settle for being passively "aware" and fashionably angry about it. It's lip service to the vigilence necessary to preserve and guarantee freedom for future generations. More raindrops.
Click to expand...

D P356 said:
Maybe snowden also has some documents on bergdahl as well.....

There is nothing new under the sun. This situation has happened before and will happen again. Definitely an invasion of privacy, but we all know the govt spies on us. Snowden was just a reminder.
Click to expand...

Case in point.

Part of the problem is that we've already been desensitized to the importance of privacy. We are the first generation to knowingly post all of our intimate details for the world to see -- first blogging then facebook then pinterest and instagram. It's FASHIONABLE to share your whole life with the rest of the world. This devaluation of personal privacy is very important to people not caring if their dirty laundry is out in the open. What people don't realize is that the NSA (and other organizations of which we likely aren't even yet aware) will watch you even when you don't want to... your internet history, your banking patterns, what you do with your free time, who you are calling at 2 AM, etc... It's not a pretty picture -- when will this information be shared with law enforcement when there would have otherwise been no reasonable or just cause for arrest?
 
Not only would they give it to law enforcement, but they may even sell it to corporations who seek more demographic info...anything to increase revenue for the govt.
Look on the bright side, with more arrests there will be a need for more lawyers. They're just trying to "create jobs" for these folks. Of course I'm kidding, and I don't think spying on taxpayers is the correct thing to do, or at least spying on the "47%" (per Mitt Romney) of people who pay taxes. But in our technological age it is foolish to think we're not being monitored.
If only we had Ron Paul...
 
D P356 said:
Not only would they give it to law enforcement, but they may even sell it to corporations who seek more demographic info...anything to increase revenue for the govt.
Look on the bright side, with more arrests there will be a need for more lawyers. They're just trying to "create jobs" for these folks. Of course I'm kidding, and I don't think spying on taxpayers is the correct thing to do, or at least spying on the "47%" (per Mitt Romney) of people who pay taxes. But in our technological age it is foolish to think we're not being monitored.
If only we had Ron Paul...
Click to expand...

If he was really a threat to our government, he would not be on TV, hed be dead and you wouldnt know his name. He is just an entertainer to make you think there is some sort of rebellion and freedom going on here- theres not.
 
Hoya11 said:
If he was really a threat to our government, he would not be on TV, hed be dead and you wouldnt know his name. He is just an entertainer to make you think there is some sort of rebellion and freedom going on here- theres not.
Click to expand...

You've got it almost right. You're statement should have been this:

"If our government was really a threat to him, he would be dead and you might not know his name. Most of the media today is entertainment and the average American has no idea who Edward Snowden is or what he did. General apathy is the reason why there is no rebellion and freedom issue here - there's not because our government is continuously testing the waters with what they can get away with. Killing him now is not one of those things."
 
@Hoya. I disagree with him being an "entertainer." No, we're not a rebellious society and there is no 'movement' of rebellion. I'm sure there are whistle blowers across the nation who are silenced by one method or another. He is just the most recent whistle blower to go public on a large scale.
John Kerry is grandstanding telling him if he's a patriot, that he should come on home. It's funny watching these politicians playing the political game. And prisoners at gitmo can see a doctor faster than some of our own vets at the VA...and that's not good.
 
BuzzPhreed said:
Mixed.

We are already living in George Orwell's "1984" yet most people don't realize it yet. He just missed the date it would happen by 30 years. We live in a society with a confusing mix of apathy and intolerance. Superciliousness and perfunctoriness. Where the current generation has been told that their opinion is important and matters and should be shared, but no one wants do anything about it. Truculence and emasculation. We are at a precipice between unbridled narcissism mixed with self-importance and totalitarianism. These long generational cycles are repeating themselves now. People should be afraid not for what our government can do for you, but instead to you.

Edward Snowden is not the champion or hero. He's the bellwether.
Click to expand...

Hey thanks for posting this. I learned about 6 new words from it.
 
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