EM part time

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petomed

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How hard is it to find part time / 0.5 FTE'ish sustained gigs in EM with what you would consider to be good hourly pay? I'm trying to get a sense for whether I should go EM, IM, or FM for residency and the idea of working half the hours in EM that I would in FM or IM with equivalent total compensation seems pretty attractive at face value and fairly burnout resistance. Not sure how this translates in reality.

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Not sure how this translates in reality.
It doesn't. There's only 1 quasi-CMG that I know of that has shifts like that. The pay is WAY below market rate for an EM-boarded physician. Someone check my math, but it seems like EM at 0.5 FTE at the current rates wouldn't get you close to equivalent IM or FM salary.

I'm saying this as someone who got into medical school to solely do EM and couldn't see themselves doing anything else, EM is a raging dumpster fire, save yourself and do something else. One look through these forums can tell you how bad it's gotten. Especially after the dismal match last year.
 
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How hard is it to find part time / 0.5 FTE'ish sustained gigs in EM with what you would consider to be good hourly pay? I'm trying to get a sense for whether I should go EM, IM, or FM for residency and the idea of working half the hours in EM that I would in FM or IM with equivalent total compensation seems pretty attractive at face value and fairly burnout resistance. Not sure how this translates in reality.
If you like specialties other than EM, consider yourself lucky. As Cajun said, EM is in a bad place right now, to put it mildly. This is possibly the worst time to get into the specialty. Tons of new attendings getting minted from sub-par new programs serving only to dilute the market and drive wages down. Midlevels doing the midlevel thing. Not to mention tons of burnout, even in people who you would pin as stereotypically “meant for EM”. IM also grants you a bunch of fellowship opportunities, so even if you don’t like general IM, you have options. Can’t say the same for EM.
 
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You might have the chance to do some PRN shifts but they’ll be the less desirable shifts and likely incredibly inconsistent.
 
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You can probably negotiate the equivalent of 0.5 FTE shifts by working per-diem, but you aren't going to have benefits. There are some groups that offer some benefits at 0.6 FTE (Kaiser?) or 0.7 FTE, but this is the exception, not the rule. You might be W2, might be 1099. Expect to have no benefits to have to pay for your own retirement, health insurance, etc. Might be worth it, might be not.

I work majority 1099 and have to fund my 401k from both sides and pay for my own health insurance, disability insurance, life insurance, etc. I still come out ahead, financially.

When I was working FT W2 I got a 10% 401k match (couple grand a year), group health insurance, few thousand for CME, those were about the only benefits of interest. Add it up and it's maybe $15k-20k a year in benefits but I was earning $50,000-75,000 less per year.

When my student loans are gone I'll start a defined benefit plan and dump $100k+/year into my retirement plan (one of the most unknown benefits of being self-employed vs W2).
 
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I'll start a defined benefit plan and dump $100k+/year into my retirement plan (one of the most unknown benefits of being self-employed vs W2).
I'm an owner/partner in a SDG, but set up as W-2 status. We max out our 401k to 100% IRS limits for employees and employers, as well as have a DBP. You don't need to be 1099 to have a DBP.
 
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How hard is it to find part time / 0.5 FTE'ish sustained gigs in EM with what you would consider to be good hourly pay? I'm trying to get a sense for whether I should go EM, IM, or FM for residency and the idea of working half the hours in EM that I would in FM or IM with equivalent total compensation seems pretty attractive at face value and fairly burnout resistance. Not sure how this translates in reality.
It doesn't translate in reality. You can make more per hour worked in EM, but it's not near as sustainable with a higher rate of burnout. You aren't going to reliably find part time employment. When employers offer benefits they typically want full time hours unless you are just filling in holes with an unpredictable schedule. Locums also isn't sustainable for most long term as constant travel is wearing.
 
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I'm an owner/partner in a SDG, but set up as W-2 status. We max out our 401k to 100% IRS limits for employees and employers, as well as have a DBP. You don't need to be 1099 to have a DBP.

Correct but you need to be have self-employment income (1099 or K1 income from a partnership) to set up a one-person DBP. If you are a W2 employee of a group/SDG/CMG that doesn't offer a group DBP to their docs, you either have to convince them to set one up, or you're out of luck.

I've worked for various W-2 hospital gigs, CMGs, etc and none of them have offered a DBP. I was told I could contribute $130,000+ per year and I was 35 when I got that number from an actuary. The annual contribution limit goes up the older you are.
 
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how many hours do you consider part time? I worked about 100 hours a month (sometimes less, rarely more than that) last year and cleared 260k+. I will say that with FM and IM boards, it's becoming near impossible to find a decent EM job in a desirable location as most of the "good" jobs and locations require ABEM certification.

It's also pretty difficult to find a part-time FM or IM job unless it's urgent care or Hospitalist Locums or work weekends only.

EM isn't for everyone, but it's allowed me way more family time than any other specialty I think.
 
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This is pretty easy to do if you start off 1.0 FTE and then throttle back after being there for a few years. You do it slowly though so nobody cares much. 1.0 -> 0.8 -> 0.5 -> per diem. I’m currently at the 0.8 stage in my career and can’t wait for 0.5.
 
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How hard is it to find part time / 0.5 FTE'ish sustained gigs in EM with what you would consider to be good hourly pay? I'm trying to get a sense for whether I should go EM, IM, or FM for residency and the idea of working half the hours in EM that I would in FM or IM with equivalent total compensation seems pretty attractive at face value and fairly burnout resistance. Not sure how this translates in reality.
You could probably make $175-$250/hr working part time, likely without additional benefits. Just cash. You can do the math about whether it’s worth it for you. This is for BC EPs.
 
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For his next trick, he's going to ask if he can do FM and have his clinic and pick up ER shifts every week, but never nights or weekends because clinic.
 
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How hard is it to find part time / 0.5 FTE'ish sustained gigs in EM with what you would consider to be good hourly pay? I'm trying to get a sense for whether I should go EM, IM, or FM for residency and the idea of working half the hours in EM that I would in FM or IM with equivalent total compensation seems pretty attractive at face value and fairly burnout resistance. Not sure how this translates in reality.
I'm in the SE in a non desirable city at half a million + population and FM does very GOOD down here. They work 4 days a week and pull in 400K. Our IM hospitalists pull in 365-400K depending on hours. So, I think you need to rethink the assumed compensation differential because it might not be as bad as you think. Without knowing your situation, I think you should choose FM/IM but to answer your question... Yes, it's very easy to work part time within EM, at least in my location. We have several docs in the area that do that with no problem. One of our docs works about 6 shifts a month for instance. It's easier to do that sort of thing in cities or areas where there are staffing shortages and we've always been one of those spots. Another alternative is doing travel locums which is also very easy and you just pick how many shifts you want to work a month though you are away from home during that time.
 
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If you live in Texas, doing part time is cake if you are flexible. It seems like everyone needs help.
 
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Really great information, thanks everyone!

200k/yr gross without benefits is plenty for me. Love medicine but if conventional wisdom says nearly any specialty will eventually turn into just another job and I’ll want more time to myself outside of work, I yield and can accept that truth.

So to me, the goal becomes finding the path of least resistance to the specialty that hits around 200k while minimizing required hours in training, on the job, and burnout probability.

Is that EM? Maybe a combined EM/FM residency where I plug EM holes while building up a DPC FM practice? I’m all ears.
 
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Some here may not agree but Medicine no matter the specialty is a job. I do not know of any doc who after 10+ yrs of practice still thinks it is a calling and loves going to work. When you get married, have kids, get older then medicine becomes less important and outside "stuff" matters more.

If you are happy with 200K/yr, there really isn't many other fields where you can work 2 dys/wk and make 200K/yr.

I know a married dual surgeon couple who struggles to be home with their one kid. Not many fields allows you to move freely. Once you are a surgeon who has established a practice, it is almost impossible to move without starting over. EM, you can move today and be up to speed tomorrow.
 
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As someone that has worked Part Time 60 to 80 hrs a month in multiple states across the country let me just say that it's not easy these days.

There are definitely exceptions but the vast majority of groups won't even consider Part Timers and will usually require some bare minimum hours from about 120 to 160 hrs a month. The groups that do consider Part Timers are often raging dumpster fires that literally can't hire docs because the work conditions on shift are so terrible. You also have to realize that you'll most likely have the worst shifts and then will often be the first one replaced once they can find someone that's willing to commit to working more hours.
 
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I'd also caution that 200K is without benefits and before taxes so its more like 100K take home which is still a lot and will allow a comfortable life but it's not anywhere near what you make in other fields of medicine that allow you to see your family on the holidays.
 
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One other point. It is unlikely you will find a good job as a PT doc. Now that depends on a few factors As mentioned if you find a good SDG some have fairly low hours to be FT. My group FT is under 2 shifts a week (on average).

If you are looking for CMG type work or even employed it will be even crappier. The CMG will kick you off as soon as some young doc wants more hours cause they will value the FT doc more than you. If employed your benefits will be a killer and will make you less attractive. Again easier to slide into that from FT.

Best bet for PT is to work shifts no one wants. It also can get you the benefit of a fixed schedule (Work every Monday/Tuesday overnight with some exceptions for vacation). Keep in mind in 3 years EM will be nearly fully saturated and if you arent EM you likely wont work EM.
 
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OP: you keep using this word.

Minimizing.

That's very, very dangerous.

Go ahead.

Minimize your residency training.

See how much you don't know when you're done.

You'll wish you didn't do that.
 
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It doesn't. There's only 1 quasi-CMG that I know of that has shifts like that. The pay is WAY below market rate for an EM-boarded physician. Someone check my math, but it seems like EM at 0.5 FTE at the current rates wouldn't get you close to equivalent IM or FM salary.

I'm saying this as someone who got into medical school to solely do EM and couldn't see themselves doing anything else, EM is a raging dumpster fire, save yourself and do something else. One look through these forums can tell you how bad it's gotten. Especially after the dismal match last year.

You need to go over to Reddit EM and speak this truth.
Swear to god; those people over there... absolutely ostriched.
 
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OP: you keep using this word.

Minimizing.

That's very, very dangerous.

Go ahead.

Minimize your residency training.

See how much you don't know when you're done.

You'll wish you didn't do that.
As in at risk of failing boards, or the endless quest of being increasingly more prepared on day 1 solo?
 
As in at risk of failing boards, or the endless quest of being increasingly more prepared on day 1 solo?

Yes.

There's a difference between being unprepared on day 1 solo, and being an incompetent doc who doesn't know what they don't know.
 
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As in at risk of failing boards, or the endless quest of being increasingly more prepared on day 1 solo?
One could argue that it's difficult to be competent as an ER physician if you start out the gate working part-time.

Your first couple years out are a massive learning curve (I'm on year three and I feel like I learned more the first two years of attendinghood than in the previous 4 years of residency) only working half time means the lessons take twice as long to learn, while simultaneously you're experiencing some skill atrophy since you aren't seeing the full breadth of EM on a regular basis.

Take intubation for example - many new grads don't get a lot of tubes (thanks, BiPAP and HFNC), and as an attending in most settings your acuity will be lower than in residency, not higher. The average doc working FT an average community gig is intubating maybe once every month or so. You start out as part time and you're basically doing 4-6 tubes a year, max and you aren't getting any better.

...and that's just a monkey skill that could be brushed up on with a weekend course or some OR time. Think of the actual pathology you aren't seeing often because you just don't work enough.

Anecdotally, we have a per-diem at my main shop who has only worked part-time in EM since graduating in 2021. This individual is noticeably weaker clinically than the rest of us who graduated around the same time, and less procedurally competent. They are now contemplating quitting and moving to urgent care (full time, with higher volume and somewhat lower pay) because they don't really feel comfortable flying solo, almost 3 years later.
 
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One could argue that it's difficult to be competent as an ER physician if you start out the gate working part-time.

Your first couple years out are a massive learning curve (I'm on year three and I feel like I learned more the first two years of attendinghood than in the previous 4 years of residency) only working half time means the lessons take twice as long to learn, while simultaneously you're experiencing some skill atrophy since you aren't seeing the full breadth of EM on a regular basis.

Take intubation for example - many new grads don't get a lot of tubes (thanks, BiPAP and HFNC), and as an attending in most settings your acuity will be lower than in residency, not higher. The average doc working FT an average community gig is intubating maybe once every month or so. You start out as part time and you're basically doing 4-6 tubes a year, max and you aren't getting any better.

...and that's just a monkey skill that could be brushed up on with a weekend course or some OR time. Think of the actual pathology you aren't seeing often because you just don't work enough.

Anecdotally, we have a per-diem at my main shop who has only worked part-time in EM since graduating in 2021. This individual is noticeably weaker clinically than the rest of us who graduated around the same time, and less procedurally competent. They are now contemplating quitting and moving to urgent care (full time, with higher volume and somewhat lower pay) because they don't really feel comfortable flying solo, almost 3 years later.

Guys, this is what I meant in the other thread when I said: "we will see more failures to launch" in response to these new residences.

Take an applicant that doesn't have the academic horsepower and the danger sense of your typical applicant (or one that applies to EM as a "backup specialty"), match them with a dog**** HCA residency, and boom; you've got a failure to launch that winds up in urgent care or telehealth.
 
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I appreciate the responses folks!

None of what anyone has said is hard to believe. The more you work the better you get, regardless of what you do. Though I’ve read on here a big gripe is FM’s trying to pull EM shifts without having done the work to be EM boarded and how slow or limited they are. Based on recent posts, it seems becoming EM boarded but doing the minimum is also insufficient.

Is there some kind of hours/month cutoff I’m unaware of where things become dangerous? Are the EM boards woefully simplified compared to what you need to begin practicing under your own license?

There’s always going to be someone smarter and faster doing what you do. There’s no way to appease admins. There’s no way to save every single patient. There’s no way to make them all happy either. All you can do is your best work.

To me, board cert is generally the litmus test. If it’s not that, then who exactly is deciding whether or not you’re competent? Lawyers, of course. But if you cya by following guidelines and best practices, what gives?

I certainly don’t know the history in EM and am only speaking as a 2nd year student here. I may ask a lot of questions but not from a place of defense, only one of trying to better understand.
 
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Hey guys, the kid can really think.
I mean that.

Anyone else see the small cognitive oversight he is making that translates to a big difference?

Hey kid; I'll hand it to you. Very solid responses.
 
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Really great information, thanks everyone!

200k/yr gross without benefits is plenty for me. Love medicine but if conventional wisdom says nearly any specialty will eventually turn into just another job and I’ll want more time to myself outside of work, I yield and can accept that truth.

So to me, the goal becomes finding the path of least resistance to the specialty that hits around 200k while minimizing required hours in training, on the job, and burnout probability.

Is that EM? Maybe a combined EM/FM residency where I plug EM holes while building up a DPC FM practice? I’m all ears.
200k would be about 75 hrs a month where I work.
 
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Really great information, thanks everyone!

200k/yr gross without benefits is plenty for me. Love medicine but if conventional wisdom says nearly any specialty will eventually turn into just another job and I’ll want more time to myself outside of work, I yield and can accept that truth.

So to me, the goal becomes finding the path of least resistance to the specialty that hits around 200k while minimizing required hours in training, on the job, and burnout probability.

Is that EM? Maybe a combined EM/FM residency where I plug EM holes while building up a DPC FM practice? I’m all ears.
I think your math is way off, I think you are over-valuing how much the average ER physician makes and undervaluing the average PCP/IM.

As an example, I make about 330k a year base wages/salary and about another 70k in benefits/retirement contribution/profit sharing that I am only entitled to by working full time. So the difference in 0.5 FTE and 1.0 FTE is more than 2x; its 165k vs 400k total comp, so close to 2.5x. Most PCP's are making at least 300, so you are making dramatically less than a PCP working half time ER.

Second of all is logistics. Your overhead has a physician (practice integration, billing, malpractice) are essentially fixed and not prorated to how much you work. So a potential employer has the same fixed expenses on you and you are brining in less income for them, why would they hire you compared to someone working full time? They wouldn't. Or if they would, only temporarily until they can get a fulltimer and then your toast.

In the same vein, you may view a full-timer as "having to work" this many shifts, but they also "Get to work" that many shifts, their minimums are a guarantee. Once a group has the shifts covered, they don't need a part-timer anymore who has no shifts they get to work. Thus the only shops that have plenty of part-time hours tend to be places that cannot keep full-timers because they are crappy shops with bad work environments.

So to put together a part time career, you will need multiple jobs and multiple credentials at multiple places in possibly multiple states. The shops will generally have a worse work environment. Your work will be uncertain and you may not know what your income will be in a few months. This can complicate getting loans to buy a vehicle, buy a house, etc.

At this point why go through all that hassle to make less than half of a full timer? Might be easier to just work full time at a good shop.


Petomed, this is going to sound very judgemental, but I want you to understand that what you are saying is worthy of being judged harshly.

Why do you want to go into a field where you do not intend to do a good job and don't intend to be the best you can for your patients?

You haven't even already started residency, and you are already talking about "path of least resistance" and doing as little as possible. Residency is largely what you make of it, if you aren't focused 100% on becoming the best physician you can, you will certainly be outpaced by your peers.

Why would I hire a new grad who has gotten less out of their training and isn't as committed to working hard in practice?

Also, emergency medicine is an intensely clinical specialty, you cannot learn it in a book. You need reps, lots of them. I feel it took a solid 5 years post residency for me to consolidate my skill set, maybe some people its faster, some slower. But you need a razor sharp clinical edge to do well in this specialty. We are literally looking for the needles in the haystack, that person who just looks a little "off" or "more uncomfortable than you would expect" who actually has an aortic dissection lost in the sea of benign chest paineurs.

Procedures take reps to. We aren't surgeons we don't do the same procedure every single day, so you need lots of days to get it in. The difference between an intubator who gets 100% of their tubes and 99% is everything, its life and death. 99% is not good enough.

furthermore, just providing safe effective medicine is not enough in this field, you need to do all that, AND do it fast. Speed and efficiency are based on experience and practice.

This is a field with high stakes, I don't think we need people in it who aren't committed to getting the most out of their training, the most of their practice, and giving their patients 100%.

Yes it's true, some people are better than others, I'm sure there are many ER physicians better than me, but my conscience is clear that I am giving MY patients 100% of what I got.

I think one can start cutting back to part time after AT least 5 years in practice, planning to go part time right out the gate will make you an absolutely less effective and probably inadequate ER physician.

Bottom Line, and I want the other medical students lurking to see this:

This is not a life-style specialty. It is a good specialty for people who are interested and passionate about emergency medicine. There are no short cuts. The guy you heard of who practices 6 days a month, is well-off, and spends the rest of the time surfing probably spent 20 years first working hard in the pit, saving money, and consolidating their skills. That probably wont be you right out the gate. The other part-time "exceptions" are making some other sacrifice, working only weekends, only nights, etc. Those all have their own downsides.

Life style specialty if you have the grades are derm and ophtho, if you don't have the grades consider psychiatry or low key PCP/FP.
 
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I appreciate the responses folks!

None of what anyone has said is hard to believe. The more you work the better you get, regardless of what you do. Though I’ve read on here a big gripe is FM’s trying to pull EM shifts without having done the work to be EM boarded and how slow or limited they are. Based on recent posts, it seems becoming EM boarded but doing the minimum is also insufficient.
Correct
Is there some kind of hours/month cutoff I’m unaware of where things become dangerous? Are the EM boards woefully simplified compared to what you need to begin practicing under your own license?
Yes just passing boards is not even close to enough to be clinically adequate, it is necessary but not sufficient.
 
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Correct

Yes just passing boards is not even close to enough to be clinically adequate, it is necessary but not sufficient.

I work with two docs who passed boards with no difficulty. I don't know how they did it, because I would never let them treat me or a family member. I like to remark that "my cat knows more medicine than -Dr. Brandy- (name changed) does, because the cat sleeps near my head."

Dr. Brandy pulls shifts at the freestanding, and actually tells incoming EMS squads that "this patient sounds like an admission; better take them to the big house straight away" - but we all really know its because she "works scared".
 
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Good convo again all, really do appreciate the responses.

I wish that were true. Unfortunately medicine is not my first career. My only interest here is learning, I apologize if I've said something offensive.

Why do you want to go into a field where you do not intend to do a good job and don't intend to be the best you can for your patients?
I absolutely do. But I think my interpretation of doing the best that I can for patients might be a bit different than yours. By your definition, there's no bounds on how much work should be put in. By the elitist standard, which I understand is not precisely what you put forth--one would never do anything during residency except work. This would translate to an enormous number of presentations seen by the time beginning day 1 solo. You would then never take vacation when working full-time. Never see your family, friends, no hobbies. How could you? You'd be sacrificing learning experience, a.k.a. trending towards not 'doing the best for your patients'.

It's a slippery slope and I apologize for the hyperbole but it's the easiest way to stress the point.

That same doc from above will likely burn out. Probably do the FIRE dance and retire early. But, then how many patients have they seen over their shortened career of 10ish years? How many people have they successfully helped compared to someone who takes a dialed down approach?

That dialed down approach is what my questions are really geared toward. I saw the hourly rates of EM and thought (being only a 2nd year medical student with wee little wisdom) 'wow, I could work half the hours of FM!'

Many here though have made the argument against that and I've got to say, it makes sense. If the number of shifts just aren't available as part time because of the infrastructure, those are the cards. Can't fight that tide lol.

As for the experience argument trending towards elitist as the expectation, yeah EM definitely isn't for me if that's the reality. I still struggle to believe that but you all know much better than I do in that realm. I think a lot of medical students are going to 'fail to launch' as it's been said on here if the expectations are as it seems to be from those already established in EM.
 
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Good convo again all, really do appreciate the responses.


I wish that were true. Unfortunately medicine is not my first career. My only interest here is learning, I apologize if I've said something offensive.

Nothing offensive. You mention "student" and you're gonna be called "kid" on a board that's generally populated with attending physicians.
I even paid you a compliment, kid. Seems like you can really think. That will translate well to whatever field you want to pursue. (Just don't let it be EM, or you'll wind up like us).
 
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Good convo again all, really do appreciate the responses.


I wish that were true. Unfortunately medicine is not my first career. My only interest here is learning, I apologize if I've said something offensive.


I absolutely do. But I think my interpretation of doing the best that I can for patients might be a bit different than yours. By your definition, there's no bounds on how much work should be put in. By the elitist standard, which I understand is not precisely what you put forth--one would never do anything during residency except work. This would translate to an enormous number of presentations seen by the time beginning day 1 solo. You would then never take vacation when working full-time. Never see your family, friends, no hobbies. How could you? You'd be sacrificing learning experience, a.k.a. trending towards not 'doing the best for your patients'.

It's a slippery slope and I apologize for the hyperbole but it's the easiest way to stress the point.

That same doc from above will likely burn out. Probably do the FIRE dance and retire early. But, then how many patients have they seen over their shortened career of 10ish years? How many people have they successfully helped compared to someone who takes a dialed down approach?

That dialed down approach is what my questions are really geared toward. I saw the hourly rates of EM and thought (being only a 2nd year medical student with wee little wisdom) 'wow, I could work half the hours of FM!'

Many here though have made the argument against that and I've got to say, it makes sense. If the number of shifts just aren't available as part time because of the infrastructure, those are the cards. Can't fight that tide lol.

As for the experience argument trending towards elitist as the expectation, yeah EM definitely isn't for me if that's the reality. I still struggle to believe that but you all know much better than I do in that realm. I think a lot of medical students are going to 'fail to launch' as it's been said on here if the expectations are as it seems to be from those already established in EM.

Let me introduce to you a concept that is known on here as the "Birdstrike Multiplier". Named after the creator, who has left EM and will never look back (good on you bro), it is summarized as follows:

"One hour spent in the ER is really 1.5-1.75 hours doing anything else."

That statement is so unfortunately, unpleasantly, unabashedly true.

I distinctly remember having a very similar mindset to yours at some point: "don't be greedy; make enough, and protect yourself from burnout by not overextending yourself. Create a strategy to do just that." For some reason (many good reasons), it never seems to work that way.
 
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Sorry for backtracking to certain posts. You all have insights and I don't want to miss them.

you need to do all that, AND do it fast
I suspected this to be the root of what most are saying here. But isn't this the case in any specialty? It's certainly the case anywhere that your contract is predominantly efficiency/RVU-based. No doubt the stakes are high in EM but it would surprise me if the expectation to perform highly out of the gate is not uncommon across other specialties.

To this end:
just passing boards is not even close to enough to be clinically adequate
Is this because of the breadth not covered in boarding exams, or because it falls way short of the material command required to hit the expected patient volumes per shift?

"my cat knows more medicine than -Dr. Brandy- (name changed) does, because the cat sleeps near my head."
Yikes!

distinctly remember having a very similar mindset to yours
This. I really like the breadth of FM but was advised to look into EM because of the high hourly rate with similar patient diversity to FM. It's challenging right now for me to believe I could remain interested in a narrow subspecialty of medicine for a long career. I dislike way too few things and getting good at one area then moving on to a related lateral niche is exactly my personality.

With the backdrop of having the freedom to work < 1,000 hrs one year then > 2,500 in another while making out alright salary/hourly--what should I look into in order to sidestep the Birdstrike Multiplier?
 
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Sorry for backtracking to certain posts. You all have insights and I don't want to miss them.


I suspected this to be the root of what most are saying here. But isn't this the case in any specialty? It's certainly the case anywhere that your contract is predominantly efficiency/RVU-based. No doubt the stakes are high in EM but it would surprise me if the expectation to perform highly out of the gate is not uncommon across other specialties.

To this end:

Is this because of the breadth not covered in boarding exams, or because it falls way short of the material command required to hit the expected patient volumes per shift?

No board exam teaches you how to "run a department".



This. I really like the breadth of FM but was advised to look into EM because of the high hourly rate with similar patient diversity to FM. It's challenging right now for me to believe I could remain interested in a narrow subspecialty of medicine for a long career. I dislike way too few things and getting good at one area then moving on to a related lateral niche is exactly my personality.

With the backdrop of having the freedom to work < 1,000 hrs one year then > 2,500 in another while making out alright salary/hourly--what should I look into in order to sidestep the Birdstrike Multiplier?

Be very careful with that last statement. 2500 in a year would be suicidal. Fast math: that's like trying to work 20 months' worth of EM in 12 month's time... WITHOUT the Birdstrike multiplier. 208 hours/month?! No. I say: there's not a single attending on this forum that could do that and keep it up for a year. Sure, you can get high numbers in a month, but you're (1) not providing safe patient care, and (2) setting yourself up for personal catastrophe. Also, there's no way any shop will let you do that. You'll piss everyone off and be out of a job fast.

You can't "sidestep" the Birdstrike Multiplier. Stop. HARD stop. FULL stop.






Responses in bold, above. No idea why the forum editor is being so janky.
 
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Dang to that. 2,500hr/48wk's = 52 hr/wk. That's too much for what the ER slings at ya? I always imagined the powers that be wanted > 50 hr/wk irrespective of specialty. It's good to know this is too much in the ER.

If somehow managing to safely pull those hours though, why would it piss off the other ER docs?

When asking how to avoid the Birdstrike Multiplier, I meant more broadly when considering which specialty to go into--not just EM. Is there still no way to preserve that initial naiveness?
 
Dang to that. 2,500hr/48wk's = 52 hr/wk. That's too much for what the ER slings at ya? I always imagined the powers that be wanted > 50 hr/wk irrespective of specialty. It's good to know this is too much in the ER.

52 hours in a week?! Jesus, man. I worked four 12's in a row last week and wanted to commit Ohio. THAT was a serious scheduling anomaly because of the holiday and everyone ELSE'S availability. Oh, and I don't work this week in the ER and everyone there can look at the schedule and say to themselves: "Oh, okay, okay."

If somehow managing to safely pull those hours though, why would it piss off the other ER docs?

Other docs have scheduling requirements and hourly needs, too. You can't just say: "you guys aren't getting the hours you want for the next few months to a year; but I'll be SUPER burned out by then, so you can make it up next year."

When asking how to avoid the Birdstrike Multiplier, I meant more broadly when considering which specialty to go into--not just EM. Is there still no way to preserve that initial naiveness?

I'm not sure what you're asking, here.
 
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Dang to that. 2,500hr/48wk's = 52 hr/wk. That's too much for what the ER slings at ya? I always imagined the powers that be wanted > 50 hr/wk irrespective of specialty. It's good to know this is too much in the ER.

If somehow managing to safely pull those hours though, why would it piss off the other ER docs?

When asking how to avoid the Birdstrike Multiplier, I meant more broadly when considering which specialty to go into--not just EM. Is there still no way to preserve that initial naiveness?
What you are naive to is the pace of EM (1.5x the pace of other specialties) and the circadian rhythm disruption. Sometimes in EM all you want is to be able to go to the bathroom, but can't because you are trying to rush a stroke alert along with an indecisive 70 year old's 70 year old family so that you can be there for the trauma that is 10 minutes out. Other specialties also don't have the burden of routine, high-intensity work overnight. You can't switch back and forth between days and nights at this pace consistently working a high number of hours. For many, first it's 1 day recovering after a stretch of overnights, then 2, before it eventually becomes 3, 4 or even more. Your days off vanish. Some of us do it better than others, but it's hard to argue that flipping your schedule all over the place over time is sustainable. What you think works, or what you want when you begin a medical career, usually changes over time.

We are NFL players with average 4-year careers. You see EM as the superstar QB playing 20 years. Instead it's the backup lineman who makes great money for 4 years, but then washes out with a bunch of injuries (some hidden) and limited options forward. You are highly trained, but easy avenues to apply your advanced skills are hard to find off the gridiron. You have to reinvent yourself mid career with a lot of potential productive life left still unlike other specialties that were built for the long haul.

Academics, medical school and board certifications are not reflective of the clinical practice of medicine. They form the backbone, but clinical competence combines clinical knowledge with common sense, work ethic and interpersonal skills that aren't reflected by classes and exams. Most that succeed in undergrad and medical school also do well clinically. That's not guaranteed though. Some struggle academically and make excellent clinicians. It's a new ball game during residency and your early years as an attending. It usually shows who put effort into their development as a clinician. It's manifested in a different form than who can most quickly recite an answer to an exam question.

Naivety comes from a lack of experience and wisdom. You don't maintain the same perspective as your season in life changes. You can't predict what your future self will like or think. Make an educated guess without seeing any field through rosy eyed glasses. EM is far more appealing to those in training and on the outside than those actively practicing. Enjoy the current moment as it only comes once.
 
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What you are naive to is the pace of EM (1.5x the pace of other specialties) and the circadian rhythm disruption. Sometimes in EM all you want is to be able to go to the bathroom, but can't because you trying to rush a stroke alert along with an indecisive 70 year old's 70 year old family so that you can be there for the trauma that is 10 minutes out. Other specialties also don't have the burden of routine, high-intensity work overnight. You can't switch back and forth between days and nights at this pace consistently working a high number of hours. For many, first it's 1 day recovering after a stretch of overnights, then 2, before it eventually becomes 3, 4 or even more. Your days off vanish. Some of us do it better than others, but it's hard to argue that flipping your schedule all over the place over time is sustainable. What you think works, or what you want when you begin a medical career, usually changes over time.

We are NFL players with average 4-year careers. You see EM as the superstar QB playing 20 years. Instead it's the backup lineman who makes great money for 4 years, but then washes out with a bunch of injuries (some hidden) and limited options forward. You are highly trained, but easy avenues to apply your advanced skills are hard to find off the gridiron. You have to reinvent yourself mid career with a lot of potential productive life left still unlike other specialties that were built for the long haul.

Academics, medical school and board certifications are not reflective of the clinical practice of medicine. They form the backbone, but clinical competence combines clinical knowledge with common sense, work ethic and interpersonal skills that aren't reflected by classes and exams. Most that succeed in undergrad and medical school also do well clinically. That's not guaranteed though. Some struggle academically and make excellent clinicians. It's a new ball game during residency and your early years as an attending. It usually shows who put effort into their development as a clinician. It's manifested in a different form than who can most quickly recite an answer to an exam question.

Naivety comes from a lack of experience and wisdom. You don't maintain the same perspective as your season in life changes. You can't predict what your future self will like or think. Make an educated guess without seeing any field through rosy eyed glasses. EM is far more appealing to those in training and on the outside than those actively practicing. Enjoy the current moment as it only comes once.

Heed these words, OP.
 
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I work in a busy Ed but you could totally do 2500 hours if you work low volume Ed. Do 2 24s a week and a little extra and you are there.

I’m not advocating for anyone to do it just saying it’s possible.
 
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Already tried that.

Let me give you an honest, reductive answer:

1. Preserves sanity.

This eliminates EM, psychiatry, and most surgical fields.

2. Isn't terribly specialized.

So; FM, IM, and EM.

3. Working a lot, or a lot less.

Here's where you run into your big problem... Even FM is expected to carry their patient panel and see patients in clinic with regularity. IM hospitalist might be the way to go.
 
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For kicks, someone find that thread from last year where that IM guy (IM.MD?) posted that he was going to do a second residency in EM because he can make so much more money in half the time (!) and then said all of the other dumbest things imaginable to we EM folk.

Edit: here it is.

 
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If not EM, what would you consider as an alternative specialty that preserves sanity, isn't terribly specialized, and has the ability to work lots or a lot less?
Honestly in most fields of medicine there is a grind at some point.

If you want to avoid a grind during training (relatively, I mean), you're pretty much limited to FM, psych, PM&R. Most other specialties (IM, EM, neurology, radiology, anesthesia, surgery) dedicate a lot of their training or call to covering ER/ER consults/inpatients.

If you're willing to grind during residency, pretty much any specialty that can shift to focus on primarily outpatient work will have a lot of ability to control the amount they work (IM, IM subspecs, neurology, and most surgical specialties).
 
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