enigmatic application

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Are my chances above 50%?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 14.7%

  • No

    Votes: 29 85.3%
  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .
A

anti-pJNKThr183

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hi sdn,
I'm considering applying for an md/phd this cycle, but my application is worrisome. First, the facts:
cGPA: 2.726
BCPM GPA: 3.108
MCAT: 42
qGRE: 170
vGRE:169
analytical writing GRE: 4
second author on paper in PLOS One
First author on paper in Molecular Cell
10 hours shadowing
220 hours volunteering in DPC capacity
Two years of management experience.
Three years of teaching experience.
At least two stunning LOR - I was the ghost writer on them. They're gold.

Also:
Two semesters of straight f's early in my academic career. A startlingly bad start to my academic career.
A marijuana possession charge from the same time, since expunged.

Additionally, I believe I can count on my professors for a few additional LOR, which I believe will be quite good.

Do I stand a chance?


Typographical errors courtesy of keyboard hypomorph allele.
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I don't understand the GRE scores - do MDPhD programs want them?
Looks like minimal shadowing - is DPC Direct Patient Care? If not, do you have clinical experience? Can your app substantiate your desire to become a physician scientist?
When did you finish UG?
Why 2 semesters of Fs? One is understandable, but it seems like you failed to recognize/prioritize/fix your academic problem. Idk how much adcoms will analyze this.

A chance? sure. But I don't know if the MCAT and pubs will salvage your GPA and ECs.
 
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Negligible chance for MD/PhD. Your 42 is statistically equivalent to the 39+ scores of the hundreds of other applicants with stellar GPA's and equivalent experiences, and is not enough to make up for the terrible GPA even compared to applicants with scores 8 points below yours, nor should it be. You may even be screened out of programs with a sub-3.0 cGPA.
 
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@anti-pJNKThr183

Is this screen name the western you were running when you made this account. ;)

I'm sure you've thought of this, but the first thing I thought was that there are lot of schools that will essentially robo-trash your app with a 2.73 cGPA on it. Even if it is theoretically possible for you to get in you would really need to do some research to find out which schools will actually look at your app.
 
karayaa:
The GRE scores are not required. They are 99th percentile however, so I plan to send them anyways. The shadowing is, as you say, minimal. DPC is direct patient care. My app can substantiate my desire to become a physician scientist. As for an explanation, rehab. I finished my UG 5 years ago. Those F's are 8 years old. I am a markedly different person now.

Red Lobster Actual:
I understand that the GPA is an issue. I have been working on correcting it; however, the 300 ish hours of A's I would need to be on par with the other applicants is not feasible financially. My GPA for the last 2 years is a 4.0. The coursework I've taken in those two years is comparable to coursework at a medical school - all the while balancing cancer research, which is no cakewalk. It has less weight, however, because the number of hours is small - about 8 hours a semester, which is well above full time. It goes without saying that I'd like to avoid accruing another 60k in debt before matriculating.

DesertPT:
The name is the antibody I had to personally pay for in order to finish my last blot >.<
RoboTrash is my primary concern. I can nail an interview.
 
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Even if the drug issues are in the past you'll be seen as a high-risk applicant. Communication will be your savior to get in anywhere. I'd call schools up, explain that your GPA is that bad because of the first 2 semesters (leave out the drug/rehab part unless they ask), and tell them what your GPA would be if you don't count those semesters. Sounds like it would be in the upper 3.somethings? Ask them if your app would be 'robotrashed' or if you would just be screened out because of the GPA. Ask them what you can be doing in the mean time to give yourself a realistic shot. Some places may tell you to keep trying to bring your GPA up, others might say get more research and pubs under your belt. I'm guessing some, maybe most, will say tough luck.

Only way you'll find out is by calling/e-mailing and talking to them. Or you could just apply to a bunch of places, but why waste the money?
 
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Definitely call schools and ask if they have a floor GPA. I bet they'll all say "we have no cutoff".

Consider networking your way into having a good word put out for your application to one or two schools that are high priority for you. "Informational interviews" are a good way to do this. You may need to make your way pretty close to an admissions committee member to get your application looked at seriously.

But who knows with these things... yours is a very unique case.
 
Stagg737:
My GPA excluding those semesters is a 3.15.

Gonnif:
The publications I have are from a real hardcore masters. You don't get a cancer cell biology publication in Molecular Cell without serious, grueling work. Among PhDs at least, this is drool-worthy. I do have some additional honors from that research:
3 funded departmental grants.
1 funded grant from the graduate school at my institution.
Poster presentations at 2 major conferences.
Best poster award from one conference.
A talk at a conference that got 2nd place among the graduate students.
A R01 written and conceived by me was submitted to NIH by my PI. There's no way I can put this on my app, but it may be included on an LOR. The funded amount was nearly $400,000.

maccu5000:
This is great advise. Thank you.
 
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anti-pJNKThr183 said:
A R01 written and conceived by me was submitted to NIH by my PI. There's no way I can put this on my app, but it may be included on an LOR. The funded amount was nearly $400,000.
Click to expand...

Would there be any way we could put this on our app, Goro? I have one of these too. My name is on the grant budget for my tuition/stipend as well as all the writing/preliminary data I did.
 
You should ask some questions in the Physician Scientist forum and check out the stickied "What are my chances" thread. I know a stellar research background can make up for a low GPA in M.D./Ph.D. admissions, but I don't know how low is too low. If you can get a school to look past that 2.73, you're good to go. I just don' t know which schools would be willing to do that.
 
anti-pJNKThr183 said:
Stagg737:
My GPA excluding those semesters is a 3.15.

Gonnif:
The publications I have are from a real hardcore masters. You don't get a cancer cell biology publication in Molecular Cell without serious, grueling work. Among PhDs at least, this is drool-worthy. I do have some additional honors from that research:
3 funded departmental grants.
1 funded grant from the graduate school at my institution.
Poster presentations at 2 major conferences.
Best poster award from one conference.
A talk at a conference that got 2nd place among the graduate students.
A R01 written and conceived by me was submitted to NIH by my PI. There's no way I can put this on my app, but it may be included on an LOR. The funded amount was nearly $400,000.

maccu5000:
This is great advise. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Oof, that won't help much then. With your credentials and experience though, communication and networking will still be your best friend. Call some adcoms and ask if they have cutoffs and what you can/should do. Arranging interviews is a great idea, especially if you can get one with a PhD program director and make some connections. Having the right connections can overrule more than you would imagine, and I think it would be a huge benefit to someone in your position.

Those are nice master's stats btw, I'd play those up as much as possible (obviously).
 
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First, I'd like to thank you all for your prompt responses. I'd also like to pose another question:

MSTP programs are generally considered the most competitive professional school programs that exist. So, are my chances substantially different if I were to apply for an allopathic program instead?

I feel like the primary strengths in my application are my exam scores, my LORs, and the sharp upward trend in my GPA. It goes without saying that my cGPA is my biggest enemy. It also goes without saying that my research experience is very strong - although I assume the strength of my research experience would be mostly overlooked in an application to an MD program. Is this assumption correct, or would an adcom give the research/pubs substantial weight?
 
anti-pJNKThr183 said:
First, I'd like to thank you all for your prompt responses. I'd also like to pose another question:

MSTP programs are generally considered the most competitive professional school programs that exist. So, are my chances substantially different if I were to apply for an allopathic program instead?

I feel like the primary strengths in my application are my exam scores, my LORs, and the sharp upward trend in my GPA. It goes without saying that my cGPA is my biggest enemy. It also goes without saying that my research experience is very strong - although I assume the strength of my research experience would be mostly overlooked in an application to an MD program. Is this assumption correct, or would an adcom give the research/pubs substantial weight?
Click to expand...

According to the GPA Grid for White Applicants and Acceptees to U.S. Medical Schools, Applicants with a cumulative GPA of 3.00-3.19 and 39-45 MCAT had 50% of getting into A medical school. Applicants with a cumulative GPA of 2.80 - 2.99 and 39-45 MCAT had 25% of getting into A medical school
Source: https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstable25-4.pdf

So, to refer to your question at the top of the thread, stats alone, you have less than 50% chance of getting into one MD school, let along getting into an MD/PhD program. But admissions are not based on numbers alone. Your research experience would be appreciated by top medical schools but your cGPA, lack of shadowing, and lack of interesting extracurricular activities would make them leery of sending you an interview invitation.
 
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anti-pJNKThr183 said:
First, I'd like to thank you all for your prompt responses. I'd also like to pose another question:

MSTP programs are generally considered the most competitive professional school programs that exist. So, are my chances substantially different if I were to apply for an allopathic program instead?

I feel like the primary strengths in my application are my exam scores, my LORs, and the sharp upward trend in my GPA. It goes without saying that my cGPA is my biggest enemy. It also goes without saying that my research experience is very strong - although I assume the strength of my research experience would be mostly overlooked in an application to an MD program. Is this assumption correct, or would an adcom give the research/pubs substantial weight?
Click to expand...

I think the trouble with your application is convincing the MDs of the MSTP admissions committees - the PhDs will see high scores and excellent research, while the MDs will see your MCAT but be concerned over your GPA suggesting you're a lazy student when the courses don't challenge you (though your MCAT clearly shows you can excel when needed). I don't think applying to allopathic-only programs will be too much easier than applying to MSTPs, because the things you need to fix for an MSTP are the same things you'd need to fix for an MD-only program. You and I are very similar applicants, and my toughest hurdle was convincing the MDs on the admissions committees that I do in fact want to be a medical student and eventually a physician scientist, not just a scientist.

An engimatic application indeed...
 
samsunimomo said:
According to the GPA Grid for White Applicants and Acceptees to U.S. Medical Schools, Applicants with a cumulative GPA of 3.00-3.19 and 39-45 MCAT had 50% of getting into A medical school. Applicants with a cumulative GPA of 2.80 - 2.99 and 39-45 MCAT had 25% of getting into A medical school
Source: https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstable25-4.pdf

So, to refer to your question on top, stats alone, you have 50% of getting into medical school. But admissions are not based on numbers alone. Your research experience would be appreciated the most by top medical schools but your GPA and lack of shadowing would make them extremely leery of sending you an interview your way.
Click to expand...

@samsunimomo Regarding the lack of shadowing:

I've been told by pre-med advisers that I ought "do, not watch", and that shadowing should take a back seat to patient care. Is this true, or should I scramble for more shadowing?

At the moment, I have 220 hours of direct patient care experience - much of which involves interacting with medical personnel. I'm steadily tacking 6 hours a week onto this total.
 
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Just to give my experience, I had a somewhat similar application. 3.19 GPA, 37 MCAT, started college fresh at 24 and made straight As, but had a year of Fs from when I was 18. I had research experience, 1 publication, not as substantial as yours. Also had 3 years experience in the military as a medic. I just went straight MD, and got 2 interviews from 15 schools, about 7 of which were, admittedly, top schools and big reaches for my GPA.

It kind of sucks that if you take away a year of college that was 8 years prior to my application to med school, I was a 4.0, 37 mcat student with 2 years of research with a pub and 3 years of full time clinical work. I would have been getting interviews at top schools around the country. Instead, most rejected me right away.

So, I think it looks grim for you getting an MD/PhD spot. On the bright side, once we get away from all the statistics and numbers, there is a reality that you really only need one person high up at a single program to get sold on the idea that you're the best candidate despite a bit of a troubled past. Nothing wrong with applying, and realize that even if you go pure MD you can still work in a capacity that gives you the ability to do substantial research, so I'm sure you could find a satisfying career.
 
Have you considered grade replacement and DO/PhD programs? They do exist and may reward reinvention.
 
Network. Network. Network.

You're clearly a very bright guy capable of some seriously good work. You just need to get around the auto-screen and into the face-to-face mode. Work whatever connections you currently have and can make. Some phone calls placed on your behalf can make all the difference --
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
The only thing giving you a shot is your research background, and that would still only give you a shot in the context of becoming a physician-scientist. While overall odds are harder for an MD-PhD vs straight MD, your personal odds would be much worse going for MD only[/QUOTE]

Are you sure about this? In my experience research is also highly valued for just MD as well.
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^^^I think the point was that research is more valued for MD/PhD, and that is his biggest application strength. ie perhaps research/pubs makes up for bad GPA in MD/PhD to a somewhat larger extent than it would for MD only.
 
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