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380K? #.. CLEVELAND? Seriously?
When you look at the breakdown of regions of recent mgma data, definitely true for the Midwest380K? #.. CLEVELAND? Seriously?
i think its a calculated risk.380K? #.. CLEVELAND? Seriously?
For a regional job that is full clinical I aim for 75th-85th percentile by MGMA at UH/CWRU. Based on many things but range for this job type is $460k for new grad to approaching $700k for experience and good volume and aligned with mission and vision. Could be higher but ultra busy clinically and take on multiple other roles, but not many ppl like having 40 pts under tx 😁 and can do this well.who pays well in the midwest? I've heard case is really fair under spratt...but place like michigan, washu, iowa (well just look at the job postings for that sateliite position) pay not so well.
thanks - honestly what you just posted is pretty remarkable. basically allow people to do academic work and get compensated fairly for the clinical revenue they generate.For a regional job that is full clinical I aim for 75th-85th percentile by MGMA at UH/CWRU. Based on many things but range for this job type is $460k for new grad to approaching $700k for experience and good volume and aligned with mission and vision. Could be higher but ultra busy clinically and take on multiple other roles, but not many ppl like having 40 pts under tx 😁 and can do this well.
Not setting records compared to some PP where I know ppl pay more, but you only have 2 weeks of call per year, residents field call and an inpatient APP, lots of resources made by people across system to use, and get to work with a amazing team (no traveling physics, dosi, RTTs, nursing) with good backup coverage so taking vacation zero issue (that is huge problem in Midwest and locums costs a lot). Have tried to make it a good and fair job that you really feel you are on the team. Patients are not all simmed at main and farmed out to regional sites. I expect and thus respect the expertise of docs at all sites.
I can tell you my last job hires in at ~$300-$330k for new grads (I made less when started) and almost no one makes over $450k even as Professor.
I am fairly transparent and keep things equitable across physicians so it is not a secret.
Hope this sheds some light.
All things considered, this is likely on the better/best end of the academic spectrum (with the disclaimer that I'm trusting Dan is telling the truth, but as anyone with a Twitter account knows, Dan is usually pretty blunt/honest - which is a very sharp double-edged sword).For a regional job that is full clinical I aim for 75th-85th percentile by MGMA at UH/CWRU. Based on many things but range for this job type is $460k for new grad to approaching $700k for experience and good volume and aligned with mission and vision. Could be higher but ultra busy clinically and take on multiple other roles, but not many ppl like having 40 pts under tx 😁 and can do this well.
Not setting records compared to some PP where I know ppl pay more, but you only have 2 weeks of call per year, residents field call and an inpatient APP, lots of resources made by people across system to use, and get to work with a amazing team (no traveling physics, dosi, RTTs, nursing) with good backup coverage so taking vacation zero issue (that is huge problem in Midwest and locums costs a lot). Have tried to make it a good and fair job that you really feel you are on the team. Patients are not all simmed at main and farmed out to regional sites. I expect and thus respect the expertise of docs at all sites.
I can tell you my last job hires in at ~$300-$330k for new grads (I made less when started) and almost no one makes over $450k even as Professor.
I am fairly transparent and keep things equitable across physicians so it is not a secret.
Hope this sheds some light.
I understand that this is an intuitive way to think about things, but I don't go there myself. Nor do I think most docs should.Well my hospital, like many, was a non-profit, which means they have to disclose a lot of their financials. And I was able to get RadOnc-specific numbers (the same way I could get the charge/revenue data). So that's how I know I generated several million dollars in profit...I mean margin. Sorry, we can't say profit.
SMH at how this field runs itself down.The schedules for payment (as in CMS) are pretty arbitrary IMO. Adjuvant XRT reimburses orders of magnitude more than an oncologic groin dissection, however one is much harder to do than the other (not the one we do).
Collusion?460K for a 5 days per week job in a small Midwest town? pretty normal I’d say.
how do they know what to pay? his admin is on a group chat with other comparable admins (TN, WV) and they have salaries figured out supposedly down to + / - 10K
This post is ridiculous.I understand that this is an intuitive way to think about things, but I don't go there myself. Nor do I think most docs should.
The schedules for payment (as in CMS) are pretty arbitrary IMO. Adjuvant XRT reimburses orders of magnitude more than an oncologic groin dissection, however one is much harder to do than the other (not the one we do). We are in a field that generates lots and lots of revenue, as is medical oncology. Are we worth 3-5x what a surgeon is?
Any functioning health care system needs to serve the community, manage COPD exacerbations, provide pediatric and prenatal care. Lots of loss leaders here.
Your revenue helps float everything else in the system.
As @RickyScott is famous for saying, it's the supply/demand, not how much you produce that determines compensation. This is why in the community, medoncs are now worth more than radoncs. This is why that surgical recruit got a sweeter deal than you did financially.
The exception of course is physician ownership, which is why when you start hearing some of those numbers, you realize that it is completely different economic class entirely.
I would consider @Dan Spratt 's numbers to be fair. Fair is a weird calculation, but the point is he seems to be rewarding high volume clinical docs for their work (which admittedly has some significant drudgery (It's what I do)) and is paying the true academics less (they presumably get to think for a living).
transparency but only via a one-way-mirrorCollusion?
Ah - we're wandering into philosophical territory.I understand that this is an intuitive way to think about things, but I don't go there myself. Nor do I think most docs should.
The schedules for payment (as in CMS) are pretty arbitrary IMO. Adjuvant XRT reimburses orders of magnitude more than an oncologic groin dissection, however one is much harder to do than the other (not the one we do). We are in a field that generates lots and lots of revenue, as is medical oncology. Are we worth 3-5x what a surgeon is?
Any functioning health care system needs to serve the community, manage COPD exacerbations, provide pediatric and prenatal care. Lots of loss leaders here.
Your revenue helps float everything else in the system.
As @RickyScott is famous for saying, it's the supply/demand, not how much you produce that determines compensation. This is why in the community, medoncs are now worth more than radoncs. This is why that surgical recruit got a sweeter deal than you did financially.
The exception of course is physician ownership, which is why when you start hearing some of those numbers, you realize that it is completely different economic class entirely.
I would consider @Dan Spratt 's numbers to be fair. Fair is a weird calculation, but the point is he seems to be rewarding high volume clinical docs for their work (which admittedly has some significant drudgery (It's what I do)) and is paying the true academics less (they presumably get to think for a living).
Field is great and is right now filled with incredibly smart people.SMH at how this field runs itself down.
Hard to value if the pt came to the hospital because of the surgeons reputation.what does a hospital get out of groin dissection? I bet it's not much less than 25fx of EBRT if you count anesthesia
One of the fundamental problems of discussing, or even thinking about this: we all are defining "wealth" or "value" in financial terms.I don't know what we should get paid, but I know what goes into my calculation.
What people around me make.
Per Mencken, "A wealthy man is one who earns $100 a year more than his wife's sister's husband.”
This is kind of the LIV Golf approach to academic rad onc? I like it.For a regional job that is full clinical I aim for 75th-85th percentile by MGMA at UH/CWRU. Based on many things but range for this job type is $460k for new grad to approaching $700k for experience and good volume and aligned with mission and vision. Could be higher but ultra busy clinically and take on multiple other roles, but not many ppl like having 40 pts under tx 😁 and can do this well.
Not setting records compared to some PP where I know ppl pay more, but you only have 2 weeks of call per year, residents field call and an inpatient APP, lots of resources made by people across system to use, and get to work with a amazing team (no traveling physics, dosi, RTTs, nursing) with good backup coverage so taking vacation zero issue (that is huge problem in Midwest and locums costs a lot). Have tried to make it a good and fair job that you really feel you are on the team. Patients are not all simmed at main and farmed out to regional sites. I expect and thus respect the expertise of docs at all sites.
I can tell you my last job hires in at ~$300-$330k for new grads (I made less when started) and almost no one makes over $450k even as Professor.
I am fairly transparent and keep things equitable across physicians so it is not a secret.
Hope this sheds some light.
I understand that this is an intuitive way to think about things, but I don't go there myself. Nor do I think most docs should.
But I'd rather we all get paid consummate to our value.
Tom Cruise goes for ~10-20% of the gross. I think there's some sort of calculation or something... it's mysterious... where they have to tell him how much his films make. And then he gets a cut of that? I don't know. It's kind of "over my head" ***5th gen fighter WHOOOSH noise***I don't know what we should get paid, but I know what goes into my calculation.
What people around me make.
This post is ridiculous.
Kudos and if only some Hospital Admins would take this approach more seriously - you get what you pay for if you are buying wisely.For a regional job that is full clinical I aim for 75th-85th percentile by MGMA at UH/CWRU. Based on many things but range for this job type is $460k for new grad to approaching $700k for experience and good volume and aligned with mission and vision. Could be higher but ultra busy clinically and take on multiple other roles, but not many ppl like having 40 pts under tx 😁 and can do this well.
Not setting records compared to some PP where I know ppl pay more, but you only have 2 weeks of call per year, residents field call and an inpatient APP, lots of resources made by people across system to use, and get to work with a amazing team (no traveling physics, dosi, RTTs, nursing) with good backup coverage so taking vacation zero issue (that is huge problem in Midwest and locums costs a lot). Have tried to make it a good and fair job that you really feel you are on the team. Patients are not all simmed at main and farmed out to regional sites. I expect and thus respect the expertise of docs at all sites.
I can tell you my last job hires in at ~$300-$330k for new grads (I made less when started) and almost no one makes over $450k even as Professor.
I am fairly transparent and keep things equitable across physicians so it is not a secret.
Hope this sheds some light.