Evaluating the utility of research years for ophtho/uro hopefuls in the class of 2024

[Qwerty122]

So listing off the things we know:
- Step 2 ck will be the most important test for the class of 2024 (since step 1 is p/f)
- SF match is one month earlier, meaning for ophtho/uro hopefuls, they have a shorter time frame to (1) do well on step 2 ck since ophtho/uro is competitive (need to still be competitive compared to other students who can take more time in their dedicated step 2 ck period to study), (2) find away rotations (especially for students from no home programs, getting 3 or even 4 away rotations become vital), and (3) to finish publications after clinicals before the CAS due date (since more weight is assumed to be put on research because of step 1 p/f).

It seems like now more than ever, there is a greater need for ophtho/uro hopefuls especially from "low-tier" schools to complete a research year. Some of the major reasons to do so include:
- Great opportunity to do research and publish (obtaining a research mentor that knows you well can be important in the small field of ophtho)
- More time to study for step 2 ck after clinicals
- Can do month long aways to better impress letter writers
- Might be even more worth doing this as this is the safer route. The class of 2024 will be guinea pigs in regards to how PDs will review applicants without a step 1 score. Might be best to wait out a year to see what happens and meanwhile to improve your chances via research and getting good LORs, rather than go unmatched in the first application cycle.

Does this line of thinking work? Is this valid? What are some things that are overlooked?

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[Qwerty122]

bump. Would appreciate any advice

 

[deleted393595]

So listing off the things we know:
- Step 2 ck will be the most important test for the class of 2024 (since step 1 is p/f)
- SF match is one month earlier, meaning for ophtho/uro hopefuls, they have a shorter time frame to (1) do well on step 2 ck since ophtho/uro is competitive (need to still be competitive compared to other students who can take more time in their dedicated step 2 ck period to study), (2) find away rotations (especially for students from no home programs, getting 3 or even 4 away rotations become vital), and (3) to finish publications after clinicals before the CAS due date (since more weight is assumed to be put on research because of step 1 p/f).

It seems like now more than ever, there is a greater need for ophtho/uro hopefuls especially from "low-tier" schools to complete a research year. Some of the major reasons to do so include:
- Great opportunity to do research and publish (obtaining a research mentor that knows you well can be important in the small field of ophtho)
- More time to study for step 2 ck after clinicals
- Can do month long aways to better impress letter writers
- Might be even more worth doing this as this is the safer route. The class of 2024 will be guinea pigs in regards to how PDs will review applicants without a step 1 score. Might be best to wait out a year to see what happens and meanwhile to improve your chances via research and getting good LORs, rather than go unmatched in the first application cycle.

Does this line of thinking work? Is this valid? What are some things that are overlooked?

Research years also allow you to obtain very strong LoRs, which PDs really look at in order to figure out whom they want to interview and eventually rank.

Would recommend doing an MPH as well especially if you want to stay within academic medicine since that will save you time later on

 

[Frogger27]

Research years also allow you to obtain very strong LoRs, which PDs really look at in order to figure out whom they want to interview and eventually rank.

Would recommend doing an MPH as well especially if you want to stay within academic medicine since that will save you time later on

This is not great advice. There is no point to do an MPH unless you genuinely want one/have a specific focus which it would be helpful.

Take my advice with a grain of salt as an M4 who was preparing to apply to one of these two specialties until halfway through M3 but switched to a different surgical sub specialty, you do not need a research year to be competitive for these fields. Especially with the first two years being P/F, you have ~2-3 years to get involved with research and to be productive. It is not that hard to get a couple of abstracts/publications if you start early. I started research as an M1 and had ~8-9 publications and a number of abstracts in one of the above fields and I do not go to a research powerhouse.

In regards to Step 2, you do not need to take off a ton of time to study for it. Even though there will be increasing importance to it, you basically are studying for Step 2 all year in your clinicals as they build off each other. Most people take 2-3 weeks off to study for Step 2 and do really well. I took 18 days off of dedicated study time and got a ~255 after a 238 on step 1. There becomes a point of diminishing returns and 3-4 weeks of dedicated for Step 2 would definitely be close to it if you studied/did well throughout 3rd year. I do not see this changing dramatically (taking 2-3 months off like for Step 1) even with the increased importance of it in upcoming years.

Most people finish 3rd year around June (some earlier). This gives you enough time to take Step 2, do your home rotation (where you will get most, if not all, of your letters) and a couple of away rotations. You may get one letter of rec from an away rotation if you do it in August, but really is not necessary. The point of aways are to impress at that specific program so you can rotate there in August, September, October.

If you come from a low tier school and have your heart set on matching into a Top program, etc then a research year may be a good idea. If your goal is to match in general, it is not necessary.

@NotaCop applied to one of these fields and did a research year. He would probably be more helpful than myself

TLDR; you can build a competitive application for these without doing a research year. Only do a research year if a) you want to for specific/professional reasons and b) want to match at a top place and feel you wont be able to get the department support you'd need

Edited: Took 18 DAYS off not weeks for Step 2CK

 

[Qwerty122]

Appreciate the nuanced and comprehensive answer, especially regarding how to study for step 2 ck. That's new info for me.

 

[NotaCop]

@NotaCop applied to one of these fields and did a research year. He would probably be more helpful than myself

I'm impressed by your memory and the callout! Thanks for it, happy to chime in. It's a topic i've thought about a lot, actually wrote an opinion piece on the topic of research years in urology becoming more popular, still trying to get it published. OP, feel free to DM me if you want to chat more. Here's some rapidfire thoughts on the above:

- I applied urology from a low tier MD school without a home program, took urology research year between M3-4

- Just recently matched into urology at a respected academic program (not T10 or anything tho) which was my #1 choice
--- My two classmates applying did not match, both are now going to be doing research years after graduation
--- we rotated at the same 2 places, so LORs overlapped, one had much higher grades/scores than me, both had their own research, etc.
--- in my opinion, research year I took made all the difference (primarily for LORs, networking, skill acquisition, etc.)
--- I only had one thing published from my research year when I applied, rest was in progress or submitted. Networking and LORs were the main strength/benefit of the year it seemed like, and the research items were nice icing on the cake but less impactful

- Uro app is via ERAS not SF fyi, so you still have as much time as everyone else to submit (mid-Sep)
--- Thus, do uro home sub-i and aways june/july/aug and +/- sept if needed
--- most recommend 3 rotations (1 home, 2 away), do all 3 as away if no home program, or do 4 (1 with local private docs, 3 away) if you're really worried
--- utility of away for uro is mostly about getting the LOR, secondarily about upping your chances at that particular program
--- therefore, only do an away after sept if your only reason is to figure out if you like that program or not

- I don't think research year will become the requirement, however I do think more will choose to do them during med school (between M3-4)
--- right now a lot end up doing them after not matching, then trying to reapply
--- as things continue to get more competitive, I can see people getting more proactive and just doing it ahead of time
--- still, I don't think it will become a requirement or anything, maybe just rise to 20-25% doing them, and i'd wager those most likely to do it would be DOs or those without a home program

- Agree that the MPH is a horrible idea and will get you nothing at all
--- Only do it if you absolutely want to use it in your career, and your app is already rock solid to match no problem into your desired field

 

[Lawpy]

I'm impressed by your memory and the callout! Thanks for it, happy to chime in. It's a topic i've thought about a lot, actually wrote an opinion piece on the topic of research years in urology becoming more popular, still trying to get it published. OP, feel free to DM me if you want to chat more. Here's some rapidfire thoughts on the above:

- I applied urology from a low tier MD school without a home program, took urology research year between M3-4

- Just recently matched into urology at a respected academic program (not T10 or anything tho) which was my #1 choice
--- My two classmates applying did not match, both are now going to be doing research years after graduation
--- we rotated at the same 2 places, so LORs overlapped, one had much higher grades/scores than me, both had their own research, etc.
--- in my opinion, research year I took made all the difference (primarily for LORs, networking, skill acquisition, etc.)
--- I only had one thing published from my research year when I applied, rest was in progress or submitted. Networking and LORs were the main strength/benefit of the year it seemed like, and the research items were nice icing on the cake but less impactful

- Uro app is via ERAS not SF fyi, so you still have as much time as everyone else to submit (mid-Sep)
--- Thus, do uro home sub-i and aways june/july/aug and +/- sept if needed
--- most recommend 3 rotations (1 home, 2 away), do all 3 as away if no home program, or do 4 (1 with local private docs, 3 away) if you're really worried
--- utility of away for uro is mostly about getting the LOR, secondarily about upping your chances at that particular program
--- therefore, only do an away after sept if your only reason is to figure out if you like that program or not

- I don't think research year will become the requirement, however I do think more will choose to do them during med school (between M3-4)
--- right now a lot end up doing them after not matching, then trying to reapply
--- as things continue to get more competitive, I can see people getting more proactive and just doing it ahead of time
--- still, I don't think it will become a requirement or anything, maybe just rise to 20-25% doing them, and i'd wager those most likely to do it would be DOs or those without a home program

- Agree that the MPH is a horrible idea and will get you nothing at all
--- Only do it if you absolutely want to use it in your career, and your app is already rock solid to match no problem into your desired field

This is solid advice. Thanks for this

 

[deleted393595]

This is not great advice. There is no point to do an MPH unless you genuinely want one/have a specific focus which it would be helpful.

Take my advice with a grain of salt as an M4 who was preparing to apply to one of these two specialties until halfway through M3 but switched to a different surgical sub specialty, you do not need a research year to be competitive for these fields. Especially with the first two years being P/F, you have ~2-3 years to get involved with research and to be productive. It is not that hard to get a couple of abstracts/publications if you start early. I started research as an M1 and had ~8-9 publications and a number of abstracts in one of the above fields and I do not go to a research powerhouse.

In regards to Step 2, you do not need to take off a ton of time to study for it. Even though there will be increasing importance to it, you basically are studying for Step 2 all year in your clinicals as they build off each other. Most people take 2-3 weeks off to study for Step 2 and do really well. I took 18 days off of dedicated study time and got a ~255 after a 238 on step 1. There becomes a point of diminishing returns and 3-4 weeks of dedicated for Step 2 would definitely be close to it if you studied/did well throughout 3rd year. I do not see this changing dramatically (taking 2-3 months off like for Step 1) even with the increased importance of it in upcoming years.

Most people finish 3rd year around June (some earlier). This gives you enough time to take Step 2, do your home rotation (where you will get most, if not all, of your letters) and a couple of away rotations. You may get one letter of rec from an away rotation if you do it in August, but really is not necessary. The point of aways are to impress at that specific program so you can rotate there in August, September, October.

If you come from a low tier school and have your heart set on matching into a Top program, etc then a research year may be a good idea. If your goal is to match in general, it is not necessary.

@NotaCop applied to one of these fields and did a research year. He would probably be more helpful than myself

TLDR; you can build a competitive application for these without doing a research year. Only do a research year if a) you want to for specific/professional reasons and b) want to match at a top place and feel you wont be able to get the department support you'd need

Edited: Took 18 DAYS off not weeks for Step 2CK

You're right. I misread which stage he was in med school.

No gap year. Just start working hard now and build connections

 

[Redpancreas]

Good feelings all over the place here. Good luck to ya'll!