'excessive resident sick days' controversy brewing....

[panetrain]

Let me first say that I have never called in sick in my 8 year career in private practice.

These residents that are coming out now are, without a doubt, a different breed. My group has seen it first hand with recent hires.

With the new work hour resident restrictions, decreasing # of call days and overall muddying of water/dumbing down of residency training to near-CRNA levels, its not surprising that residents are now using these sick days to get out of work. Like many hospital nurses, taking sick days and PTO when they're not sick at all.

The consensus amongst PP groups, both in the major metropolitan area I work, as well as discussions Ive had with other groups around the country at national meetings, is that we are NO longer offering partnership tracks, only employee model, with minimal salary. We are Also more likely to hire an older anesthesiologist, like a locums, over new grads. It's simple.. new grads have limited training, so they will be offered limited pay and privilege.

So all of you 'chief residents' or other self-proclaimed CA-3 'hot shots', while thinking you are something special, something to be sought after and courted by PP groups.. well, think again. You are no more distinguished from any of your classmates than a CRNA is from an Anesthesia Tech

PP groups now are simply more interested in the older, frumpy, group-to-group puddle-jumper locums-gassers than You.

Great post TrollTown. Thank you for offering such invaluable insight from the perspective of large metropolitan PP. It sounds like the cats out of the bag in regards to the current resident work ethic climate. Did your group have a chance to view the youtube video where reisdents were publically calling out the lazy attendings and protesting for even more sick days before it was mysteriously taken offline?

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[CheGuevaraMD]

This is a chicken/egg issue, I think. If physicians (and residents) are increasingly being treated like employees by the government, by facilities, by other physicians, etc. then why should they keep up high levels of professionalism?

Why not skip a day of work if it won't really affect your future?

 

[pgg]

Kids these days! something something lawn something something

 

[TrollTown35]

Great post TrollTown. Thank you for offering such invaluable insight from the perspective of large metropolitan PP. It sounds like the cats out of the bag in regards to the current resident work ethic climate. Did your group have a chance to view the youtube video where reisdents were publically calling out the lazy attendings and protesting for even more sick days before it was mysteriously taken offline?

I did see the video. It was OK. But its clear that the calling in sick WAS, in fact, a real issue, undeniable.

The creator im sure wanted it to be 'funny'. But the only people laughing are the PUJUs (puddle-jumpers). CA-3s are now getting passed over on job opportunities for the PUJU locum frumpers. And, well I guess, WE, the PP docs are laughing too, cause we have a legit reason now to offer limited pay and privilege for resident limited training.

Thanks PaneTrain for posting the original thread. Although we are clearly seeing it in the outgoing resident classes, any additional shedding of light, if you will, on the subject matter is always well received. This is Our specialty, and we must do everything we can in our power to protect it and work our best to maintain the professionalism and work ethic that the communities we serve have come to expect. Limiting New grad pay and privilege, and, whenever possible, hiring PUJUs and CRNAs instead of New grads are just the first simple steps in setting up an ongoing framework for protecting our sacred specialty.

And although most PP groups already know the 'cats out of the bag' (as you said).. I will be forwarding this thread and any additional dialogue to both my state and national organization insiders to help officially springboard this initiative.

thanks to all contributors.

 

[panetrain]

I did see the video. It was OK. But its clear that the calling in sick WAS, in fact, a real issue, undeniable.

The creator im sure wanted it to be 'funny'. But the only people laughing are the PUJUs (puddle-jumpers). CA-3s are now getting passed over on job opportunities for the PUJU locum frumpers. And, well I guess, WE, the PP docs are laughing too, cause we have a legit reason now to offer limited pay and privilege for resident limited training.

Thanks PaneTrain for posting the original thread. Although we are clearly seeing it in the outgoing resident classes, any additional shedding of light, if you will, on the subject matter is always well received. This is Our specialty, and we must do everything we can in our power to protect it and work our best to maintain the professionalism and work ethic that the communities we serve have come to expect. Limiting New grad pay and privilege, and, whenever possible, hiring PUJUs and CRNAs instead of New grads are just the first simple steps in setting up an ongoing framework for protecting our sacred specialty.

And although most PP groups already know the 'cats out of the bag' (as you said).. I will be forwarding this thread and any additional dialogue to both my state and national organization insiders to help officially springboard this initiative.

thanks to all contributors.

Another great post, thanks for your professionlism and dedication to the preservation of our specialty.

 

[Spinach Dip]

[tangent]

Do you think this "epidemic" of sick days might be due to the asinine expectations that MD applicants (aka college seniors) have clinical experience, volunteering, etc, etc, in order to show humanism and altruism. However, whether they are a humanistic or altruistic person is completely impossible to judge.

Thus, I have noticed that the culture among pre-meds is one of lies, exaggeration, and fabrication.

So color me unsurprised that those same kids who are great at making themselves look like the next Mother Theresa, while expending as little effort as possible, are the same ones who find doing actual work is stressful, and thus take a (personal) sick day or two.

[/tangent]

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Limiting New grad pay and privilege, and, whenever possible, hiring PUJUs and CRNAs instead of New grads are just the first simple steps in setting up an ongoing framework for protecting our sacred specialty.

Yeah I think I worked for you. For five months. And I quit. Never called in sick.

Shitting on new grads and hiring CRNAs and locums instead over this relative nonissue is a surefire way to "protect" our specialty. We all know CRNAs never call in sick and locums are cheap. Sounds like you got a real handle on the situation. Thanks for showing up and your three posts.

 

[Noyac]

They probably got turned off by the sexist Neanderthal comments earlier in the thread and decided not to comment.

While I in no way approve of taking sick days when not sick, nor do I approve of taking it for minor illness, let us not forget that every employed physician (resident or attending) is covered by federal and state FMLA and sick-leave regulations. It's the law. It causes inconvenience, yes, when people are sick, but there are good reasons for the laws to exist. If you retaliate against a worker for the leave that they, yes, are entitled to for childbirth, you'll be on the losing end of an employment discrimination lawsuit. Guaranteed.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you here but I would like to clarify what you think is the " sexist Neanderthal" comments? Because a co-worker can't physically have children and then states that they don't agree with having to work for those that can all while being paid the same but having less time from work, is this sexist Neanderthal?

It may be wrong to not allow for this time off but it is, in my opinion, equally wrong to expect others to work for you while you choose to have a family. The "you" I mention is a euphemism for anyone claiming sick days or FMLA to have children while expecting others to cover for them. My view is that having a family is a luxury and if one decides to do this then they must arrange the time off without impacting others at work.

 

[Numbex]

Not entirely correct because these laws do not apply to small businesses that have less than 50 employees.
In other words most small to midsize anesthesia groups don't have to follow these rules

Oh, and there's the federal pregnancy discrimination act which applies to employers of 15 or more people. So there go the medium-size groups.

In any case the majority of anesthesia residents will be part of an overall program employing more than 50 people (i.e. usually if there's an anesthesiology program, there's a medicine program, a surgery program, etc).

 

[panetrain]

I did see the video. It was OK. But its clear that the calling in sick WAS, in fact, a real issue, undeniable.

The creator im sure wanted it to be 'funny'. But the only people laughing are the PUJUs (puddle-jumpers). CA-3s are now getting passed over on job opportunities for the PUJU locum frumpers. And, well I guess, WE, the PP docs are laughing too, cause we have a legit reason now to offer limited pay and privilege for resident limited training.

Thanks PaneTrain for posting the original thread. Although we are clearly seeing it in the outgoing resident classes, any additional shedding of light, if you will, on the subject matter is always well received. This is Our specialty, and we must do everything we can in our power to protect it and work our best to maintain the professionalism and work ethic that the communities we serve have come to expect. Limiting New grad pay and privilege, and, whenever possible, hiring PUJUs and CRNAs instead of New grads are just the first simple steps in setting up an ongoing framework for protecting our sacred specialty.

And although most PP groups already know the 'cats out of the bag' (as you said).. I will be forwarding this thread and any additional dialogue to both my state and national organization insiders to help officially springboard this initiative.

thanks to all contributors.

TrollTown, in regards to partnership track options for new grads in your large metro PP.......would you say that the production of this YouTube video (demanding more sick days) was a 'game changer' in your decision moving forward to no longer offer partnership options to new grads and the enhancement of 'frumpy' PUJU and CRNA coverage?

 

[Baller MD]

I did see the video. It was OK. But its clear that the calling in sick WAS, in fact, a real issue, undeniable.

The creator im sure wanted it to be 'funny'. But the only people laughing are the PUJUs (puddle-jumpers). CA-3s are now getting passed over on job opportunities for the PUJU locum frumpers. And, well I guess, WE, the PP docs are laughing too, cause we have a legit reason now to offer limited pay and privilege for resident limited training.

Thanks PaneTrain for posting the original thread. Although we are clearly seeing it in the outgoing resident classes, any additional shedding of light, if you will, on the subject matter is always well received. This is Our specialty, and we must do everything we can in our power to protect it and work our best to maintain the professionalism and work ethic that the communities we serve have come to expect. Limiting New grad pay and privilege, and, whenever possible, hiring PUJUs and CRNAs instead of New grads are just the first simple steps in setting up an ongoing framework for protecting our sacred specialty.

And although most PP groups already know the 'cats out of the bag' (as you said).. I will be forwarding this thread and any additional dialogue to both my state and national organization insiders to help officially springboard this initiative.

thanks to all contributors.

LMAO. TrollTown comes from the time when medical education costs pennies, not houses. He sounds like the kind of doc that sold out the specialty of anesthesiology to CRNAs just to earn a few more bucks. I bet he's happy to sit back on his leather chair as a partner while new doctors and CRNAs slave away.

I'm sure the CRNA mill is equally fervent as you in "protecting our sacred specialty."

 

[Numbex]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you here but I would like to clarify what you think is the " sexist Neanderthal" comments? Because a co-worker can't physically have children and then states that they don't agree with having to work for those that can all while being paid the same but having less time from work, is this sexist Neanderthal?

It may be wrong to not allow for this time off but it is, in my opinion, equally wrong to expect others to work for you while you choose to have a family. The "you" I mention is a euphemism for anyone claiming sick days or FMLA to have children while expecting others to cover for them. My view is that having a family is a luxury and if one decides to do this then they must arrange the time off without impacting others at work.

I'm not sure you understand the way it works.

1) If "you" are covered by the PDA (employ 15 or more people), you can't discriminate based on pregnancy-related conditions. If you are covered by FMLA (>=50 employees or government), you must allow up to 12 weeks of leave following childbirth. The leave need not be paid leave. But it's the law. Far be it for me to speak for most women (mostly because I'm male), but I bet a lot of women feel this is the right thing for the federal government to mandate.

2) I didn't call out anyone by name (until now). But if you read the thread, aneftp mentions "mommy-track" in a (IMHO) derogatory fashion and Planktonmd was up front with agreeing with the sentiment despite "I know that sounds sexist."

3) Planktonmd rightly corrected me about the numbers of employees in the organization to trigger the protective laws- precisely because of the issue being discussed generally- at what point does accommodating illness, family issues, etc become unreasonably burdensome? At some point, a small group just can't cope. In a large organization, however, going into a tizzy because one person calls in ill might rightly (for the sake of argument) be considered a lack of planning on the part of the organization.

4) I'm sorry if you express indignation about people exercising their legal rights. Unfortunately sometimes these things must be accommodated as a cost of doing business. From that standpoint, there are a lot of predictably unpredictable costs in running a business so I fail to see how this is the most egregious example. But I have to say, for you to be indignant about someone taking leave that the law says they're allowed to take strikes me as a bit sexist as well. But not as sexist as the mommy-track comment.

 

[sevoflurane]

We fired the last person who used and abused FMLA. It is an easy way to screw people over.

 

[Numbex]

sevo: I'll take a shot in the dark and guess that the individual had a medical condition that was episodic (like, for instance, severe recurrent migraines). If that was the case I'm curious (because really, I don't know) if the burden of proof for each episode was for you to prove the individual was malingering or for the individual to bring doctor's notes for each episode. This is where FMLA gets tricky I suppose.

In any case it's not the situation I'm trying to defend (assuming they truly were abusing the system). If you have the flu, you shouldn't go into work for your own health, your patients' health, and probably per hospital policy (as noted in my previous post). If you have a baby and you work at a job with 50 or more employees, (like it or not) you get up to 12 weeks leave.

 

[Noyac]

Numbex, there is no confusion here on my part. What I am saying however, is that laws are not always fair. And if certain individuals choose to take advantage of these laws at the expense of their partners then they will more than likely be looking for a new job in the future. You are right that FMLA protects an individual for up to 12 weeks but it doesn't say anything about whether that group must renew a persons contract when it comes up for renewal in the future. As I said earlier, there are legitimate reasons for calling in sick and there are other reasons. You take advantage of your partners and you will be looking for a new job, period. The last person that took FMLA in our group is looking for a new job now. But that was different because this person chose not to return after 12 weeks and we were within our right to terminate.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

I'm not sure you understand the way it works.

I'm pretty sure he understands the way it works. Agreeing with it is a different matter.

We have a CRNA who manages to take 12 weeks of FMLA every year somehow since I've been there. It really, really screws things up for us. It's all manner of semi "legitimate" things... ortho procedures, hysterectomy, questionable "heart" condition the first year I was there. Each time she manages to take the full 12 weeks. After the last FMLA, she came back with obvious plastic surgical enhancements.

This is the kind of situation this crap-ass law has created, and fortunately some stupid people get caught: http://blog.ogletreedeakins.com/fac...n-form-sufficient-legal-basis-of-termination/

In our case, unfortunately we can't get rid of this nearly-worthless employee. She's overall a marginal CRNA to boot that we often have to put her in long cases just so we know where she is. God forbid she has too much time between scheduled cases. It's like a damn scavenger hunt trying to find her.

 

[Numbex]

Noyac- I hope you have good legal counsel to support your position. I personally wouldn't be confident that just because someone is employed under a limited term employment contract immunizes the employer from a FMLA discrimination claim. I understand it didn't come up in the particular case but nonetheless...

I'm pretty sure he understands the way it works. Agreeing with it is a different matter.

We have a CRNA who manages to take 12 weeks of FMLA every year somehow since I've been there. It really, really screws things up for us. It's all manner of semi "legitimate" things... ortho procedures, hysterectomy, questionable "heart" condition the first year I was there. Each time she manages to take the full 12 weeks. After the last FMLA, she came back with obvious plastic surgical enhancements.

This is the kind of situation this crap-ass law has created, and fortunately some stupid people get caught: http://blog.ogletreedeakins.com/fac...n-form-sufficient-legal-basis-of-termination/

In our case, unfortunately we can't get rid of this nearly-worthless employee. She's overall a marginal CRNA to boot that we often have to put her in long cases just so we know where she is. God forbid she has too much time between scheduled cases. It's like a damn scavenger hunt trying to find her.

Are you for real? A hysterectomy is a BS reason to take medical leave? What alternative do you propose?

I'm done with this thread. Please, can we have some other reasonable people rebut this nonsense?

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Are you for real? A hysterectomy is a BS reason to take medical leave?

12 WEEKS!?

Did you read the link I posted? This is what abusers do. Abuse the system! Why do the rest of the hard-working, honest people (the majority) have to tolerate it?

 

[Numbex]

I didn't have that datum. You hadn't provided enough details for me to form an opinion about your worthless CRNA other than questioning why taking leave for a hysterectomy was unreasonable. Yes, I suspect if someone took _12_ weeks leave for a hysterectomy I'd question it too. But, remember, another doctor is putting their own license on the line by certifying the medical necessity of leave.

In the Facebook posting case, yes, obviously that is outright fraud (taking vacation where you post photos to Facebook- how dumb can you get?) ((I'm reminded of the chiropractor in MD who ran a marathon while supposedly suffering from back issues from a minor car accident resulting in a 5-figure insurance payout. He's doing time in the pokey.))

Hmm, perhaps this is an area the DOJ would be interested in? If it could be prosecuted as a criminal matter rather than merely a civil matter perhaps such egregious events would stop and more faith would be placed in the system.

 

[sevoflurane]

sevo: I'll take a shot in the dark and guess that the individual had a medical condition that was episodic (like, for instance, severe recurrent migraines). If that was the case I'm curious (because really, I don't know) if the burden of proof for each episode was for you to prove the individual was malingering or for the individual to bring doctor's notes for each episode. This is where FMLA gets tricky I suppose.

In any case it's not the situation I'm trying to defend (assuming they truly were abusing the system). If you have the flu, you shouldn't go into work for your own health, your patients' health, and probably per hospital policy (as noted in my previous post). If you have a baby and you work at a job with 50 or more employees, (like it or not) you get up to 12 weeks leave.

I hear ya numbex and I agree in that if you are really ill, you should be exempt from work.
Not trying to upset anybody here, but many people take the gray area and run with it. This truly disrupts flow in a healthy group.

I'm not sure how anesthesia groups function in places like Sweden. I think they get like 13 months of paternaty leave .

 

[Numbex]

I hear ya numbex and I agree in that if you are really ill, you should be exempt from work.
Not trying to upset anybody here, but many people take the gray area and run with it. This truly disrupts flow in a healthy group.

I'm not sure how anesthesia groups function in places like Sweden. I think they get like 13 months of paternaty leave .

LOL. Yes, and, agreed, part of collegiality is "screw not thy neighbor, lest thou be screwed thyself."

So am I succeeding in my mission as agent-provocateur?

 

[Laryngophed]

I hear ya numbex and I agree in that if you are really ill, you should be exempt from work.
Not trying to upset anybody here, but many people take the gray area and run with it. This truly disrupts flow in a healthy group.

I'm not sure how anesthesia groups function in places like Sweden. I think they get like 13 months of paternaty leave .

I think they get some non-zero percentage of their salary during that time as well. But I believe that to be paid out by the government.

Aside from the little diatribe about "protecting our specialty" (that wasn't serious, was it? really? really, really?) I don't think every cold and sniffles deserves a call off of work. I tend to think that if you don't have something that would make a physician tell a patient to stay home, you probably ought to be at work. I also disagree with not being able to use a sick day for a family member's illness. If the group has a problem with sick days, I'd say not to offer them. If they are put in the contract, then you've written your own ticket.

 

[circulus vitios]

I am an attending and I think residents should take sick days when they are sick.

Examples of being sick: fever, purulent cough, strep throat, pneumonia.

Examples of 'entitlement': I worked this weekend so I need a day off because I'm tired, I've got sick days so I should take them, I don't like the attending I'm working with so I should call out sick.

But they're literally entitled to those sick days...

 

[Numbex]

Noyac- so I'm curious, what is your company going to say to the, hmm, let's say California Medical Board, when the person you don't renew goes to apply for a license in another state? Seems like they'll want a reason.

(I'm pretty sure only for-cause non-renewals are reportable to the NPDB but when you apply for a license the questions are broader.)

Just curious.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Shitting on new grads and hiring CRNAs and locums instead over this relative nonissue is a surefire way to "protect" our specialty. We all know CRNAs never call in sick and locums are cheap. Sounds like you got a real handle on the situation. Thanks for showing up and your three posts.

This. Eating your own young is a very nurse-y mentality.

As pgg alludes to, this is a very generational issue. The practice of medicine has changed dramatically, with work hour restrictions, changes in employment models, demographic changes, etc. Some things are better, some things are worse. I understand that it's hard to get an idea of someone's work ethic in a short amount of time, but refusing to hire recent grads because you are lumping all young residents into one big "lazy" category is in and of itself, lazy.

 

[sevoflurane]

I think they get some non-zero percentage of their salary during that time as well. But I believe that to be paid out by the government.

Aside from the little diatribe about "protecting our specialty" (that wasn't serious, was it? really? really, really?) I don't think every cold and sniffles deserves a call off of work. I tend to think that if you don't have something that would make a physician tell a patient to stay home, you probably ought to be at work. I also disagree with not being able to use a sick day for a family member's illness. If the group has a problem with sick days, I'd say not to offer them. If they are put in the contract, then you've written your own ticket.

Paid leave @ 77% salary. That's a nice long 13 month vacation.

The person that was fired was a hospital employee outside of our group. It was really sad seeing that individual screw other colleagues summer and christmas vacation plans time and time again. Mind you, some people get 2-3 weeks vacation every year. It drove me nuts.

Fortunatley, in an eat what you kill set up--->It never pays to be lazy.

 

[Noyac]

I think what you are seeing from plankton, aneft and some of the others are people who may have been taken advantage of and are not willing to let their partners take days off because they "don't feel up to it" that day. I don't think anyone of them would complain about helping out a partner that was truly sick from time to time. But our current new grad work ethic has been called into question and nobody should be forced to work with someone that feels it is their right to take sick days because those days are legally in place.

 

[Noyac]

e. I understand that it's hard to get an idea of someone's work ethic in a short amount of time, but refusing to hire recent grads because you are lumping all young residents into one big "lazy" category is in and of itself, lazy.

It's about playing the odds.

 

[Noyac]

Noyac- so I'm curious, what is your company going to say to the, hmm, let's say California Medical Board, when the person you don't renew goes to apply for a license in another state? Seems like they'll want a reason.

(I'm pretty sure only for-cause non-renewals are reportable to the NPDB but when you apply for a license the questions are broader.)

Just curious.

Wish I could say more!

Numbex, don't take this as a sexist comment but I doubt you are truly a male.

 

[circulus vitios]

When I'm on my death bed I'm going to look back with pride at all of the sick days I didn't call off.

 

[Laryngophed]

Paid leave @ 77% salary. That's a nice long 13 month vacation.

The person that was fired was a hospital employee outside of our group. It was really sad seeing that individual screw other colleagues summer and christmas vacation plans time and time again. Mind you, some people get 2-3 weeks vacation every year. It drove me nuts.

Fortunatley, in an eat what you kill set up--->It never pays to be lazy.

Hey, I'm not about screwing other people over. I think an odd day when you are febrile, have a sore throat, no cough, and exudates means you need to stay home and not get your colleagues or patients sick. But setting it up so that you stick other people with working "the big holidays" because you aren't feeling it, isn't right.

I'm at the bottom of the totem pole, but I'd like to think I pull my weight. I hope the same of my colleagues. And being rewarded for that (i.e. your payment model) certainly helps to encourage that.

 

[Numbex]

Wish I could say more!

Numbex, don't take this as a sexist comment but I doubt you are truly a male.

Pppppft. Ok, whatever, man. I would ask how you came to that conclusion but I don't really care. Think what you will. If believing I'm female helps you square my comments with your preconceived notions, go right ahead.

 

[Numbex]

It's about playing the odds.

I actually agree, to an extent, with the line of thinking (i.e. in playing the odds), but you really need to couch it in terms of "we need experienced/board-certified people." Safer that way. Despite screening, interviews, credentials, etc, job candidates are, as Forrest Gump says, like a box of chocolates. Never know what you're going to get.

In any case I'm just griping about over broad generalizations that taking a sick day is evidence of poor work ethic. Sometimes the person is just sick. And I wholeheartedly agree that it's inappropriate to take sick days when not sick. I never made any argument to the contrary. Not only does taking a "personal" sick day show poor work ethic it shows poor moral character, frankly, when it's a paid sick day.

 

[Noyac]

Pppppft. Ok, whatever, man. I would ask how you came to that conclusion but I don't really care. Think what you will. If believing I'm female helps you square my comments with your preconceived notions, go right ahead.

That wasn't meant to offend you and I didn't think it would but honestly, I thought you might get a kick out of it.

 

[Planktonmd]

Noyac- I hope you have good legal counsel to support your position. I personally wouldn't be confident that just because someone is employed under a limited term employment contract immunizes the employer from a FMLA discrimination claim. I understand it didn't come up in the particular case but nonetheless...



Are you for real? A hysterectomy is a BS reason to take medical leave? What alternative do you propose?

I'm done with this thread. Please, can we have some other reasonable people rebut this nonsense?

It's not nonsense!
This is reality and this is why many groups shy away from hiring young female anesthesiologists.
It's about doing what is good for the business. Why would you hire an employee who has highly unpredictable circumstances if you have a choice?
I am not saying it's right or endorsing it but that's how it works.

 

[aneftp]

Had another resident call in "sick" this morning. That makes 3 residents this week alone calling in sick. I generally used to give people the benefit of the doubt. But this is just madness cause resident is on Saturday call tomorrow. Probably needs mental day off before call tomorrow.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

If I were in charge of resident sick days, I would require employee health documentation of the illness. I would also have the days available but not "entitled". They are not vacation days. I just spent a year at the bottom of the chain in a small program. If you called in "sick" people knew if you were really sick or just weak. And usually, you were weak if you took a "sick" day. If you need a mental health day, use a vacation day, that's what they are there for. I worked with pneumonia this year. Masked and medicated up, but I worked. There just weren't enough residents for me not to work.

 

[panetrain]

Had another resident call in "sick" this morning. That makes 3 residents this week alone calling in sick. I generally used to give people the benefit of the doubt. But this is just madness cause resident is on Saturday call tomorrow. Probably needs mental day off before call tomorrow.

If that's true, which it probably is, then that's an offense which warrants capital punishment.....termination. Such a despicable and pathetically weak beta stunt to pull. My PP group would never tolerate such beta ethics.

 

[Numbex]

It's not nonsense!
This is reality and this is why many groups shy away from hiring young female anesthesiologists.
It's about doing what is good for the business. Why would you hire an employee who has highly unpredictable circumstances if you have a choice?
I am not saying it's right or endorsing it but that's how it works.

It's also a violation of the Pregnancy Discrimination Act if you employ 15 or more people.

Geez, it's really disturbing to me, quite frankly, that for people who are supposed to demonstrate ethical conduct and fair dealing toward our patients (as a condition of licensure!) that anyone could be so cavalier (and apparently unconcerned) about the law in employment decisions just because they feel their situation is special and that compliance is inconvenient.

I apologize in advance if my comment is not applicable (i.e. your group is exempt because you have less than 15 employees).

 

[Noyac]

I think what you are seeing from plankton, aneft and some of the others are people who may have been taken advantage of and are not willing to let their partners take days off because they "don't feel up to it" that day. I don't think anyone of them would complain about helping out a partner that was truly sick from time to time. But our current new grad work ethic has been called into question and nobody should be forced to work with someone that feels it is their right to take sick days because those days are legally in place.

Geez, it's really disturbing to me, quite frankly, that for people who are supposed to demonstrate ethical conduct and fair dealing toward our patients (as a condition of licensure!) that anyone could be so cavalier (and apparently unconcerned) about the law in employment decisions just because they feel their situation is special and that compliance is inconvenient.

For a minute there I thought you were switching sides in this debate but I see you are not. Isn't this exactly what someone who takes advantage of their co-residents or partners is doing. They feel their situation is special. Well, it's not.

 

[Noyac]

Here's the bottom line as I see it. There are legitimate reasons to call in sick and there are not. If someone takes advantage of our laws and calls in sick for reasons of personal interest then their contract should not be renewed. This is a very grey line but that is up to those in the group making the decisions as to if someone is milking the system. FMLA for things like pregnancy are a tricky situation. The thing about pregnancy is that you have 9 months to arrange time and make plans. There shouldn't be anyone that is caught off guard by this. A decent co-worker would make the necessary arrangements so as not to force others to pick up their slack at the least. FMLA can still be awarded since the pregnant partner isn't compensated during this time(assuming it's not an eat what you kill group) and the group can arrange coverage. But to think that you are "entitled" to something and that others must just accept it, is something we are starting to see more and more these days. We have a real problem in this country with "entitlements" and this just shows how rampant it is. I liken it to people who don't work and collect SS checks feeling that they are entitled to that check. Well, legally maybe. But I don't have to agree with it. And if it happens in my group I have measures in place that will allow me to move away from these people, legally.

 

[DermViser]

We have an obligation to our patients to do everything we can to care for them

 

[DermViser]

[tangent]

Do you think this "epidemic" of sick days might be due to the asinine expectations that MD applicants (aka college seniors) have clinical experience, volunteering, etc, etc, in order to show humanism and altruism. However, whether they are a humanistic or altruistic person is completely impossible to judge.

Thus, I have noticed that the culture among pre-meds is one of lies, exaggeration, and fabrication.

So color me unsurprised that those same kids who are great at making themselves look like the next Mother Theresa, while expending as little effort as possible, are the same ones who find doing actual work is stressful, and thus take a (personal) sick day or two.
[/tangent]

I think it's more that in this generation of physicians there is a shortage of physicians who wish to be screwed, unlike previous generations. Ridiculous debt and delayed gratification do that to ya.

 

[DermViser]

Ok, the back story is the number of resident sick days are allegedly sky rocketing over the past year or so at my alma mater. Attendings have recently fired off department wide emails highly critical of the practice of taking sick days as a resident unless you are truly sick (sick enough to be admitted to a hospital) and have noted the sharp increase in frequency of sick days over the past year or so hinting to a new breed of 'entitled' residents. An anonymous resident from this program has now taken to social media to protest the attendings disapproval and illustrate that attending laziness rather than resident entitlement is the real issue.

Here is the link:

What is the consensus here? Should residents take sick days? How many? Do attendings have a valid argument? Are residents more 'entitled' now than in the past? Was posting this video on youtube smart? Should this resident be reprimanded?

The video has now been taken down by its creator for unknown reasons.....

With all due respect, I think it has more to do with establishing Anesthesiology as a ROAD specialty. If it wasn't a designated ROAD specialty, the expectations by residents likely wouldn't be there.

 

[Guy Caballero]

With all due respect, I think it has more to do with establishing Anesthesiology as a ROAD specialty. If it wasn't a designated ROAD specialty, the expectations by residents likely wouldn't be there.

So, the first letter in the name of the specialty neatly fits with others to form a word acronym, therefore, residents are lazy. I think you are onto something.

 

[DermViser]

So, the first letter in the name of the specialty neatly fits with others to form a word acronym, therefore, residents are lazy. I think you are onto something.

I'm saying the mnemonic ROAD means something with respect to lifestyle - a controlled lifestyle. You can't change the rules now after taking advantage in the recruitment of applicants by being part of the ROAD for so long.

 

[nimbus]

With all due respect, I think it has more to do with establishing Anesthesiology as a ROAD specialty. If it wasn't a designated ROAD specialty, the expectations by residents likely wouldn't be there.

It has always been considered ROAD although that is a fallacy. It was considered ROAD back in the 1990s but I never called in sick and neither did my cohorts unless they broke something or were having surgery. It was really unheard of to call in sick.

 

[Guy Caballero]

I have never seen the ROAD mnemonic used for recruiting, nor do I agree with it. Somehow, in house trauma call, covering late nights with slow surgeons, a busy labor and delivery with stat c-sections, carrying the code pager etc does not match my idea of a lifestyle specialty. I enjoy my work, but I feel like I work hard, work frequent long hours, and all call is in house. I spend way too many nights and evenings away from home to consider this a nice easy lifestyle. That has not changed. Nobody is changing the rules. If you went into a specialty with false assumptions, you put your trust in a four letter acronym and did not do your homework.
The last thing I want is someone in our specialty who thinks it is a lifestyle specialty. I want colleagues who know the meaning of hard work.

 

[DermViser]

I have never seen the ROAD mnemonic used for recruiting, nor do I agree with it. Somehow, in house trauma call, covering late nights with slow surgeons, a busy labor and delivery with stat c-sections, carrying the code pager etc does not match my idea of a lifestyle specialty. I enjoy my work, but I feel like I work hard, work frequent long hours, and all call is in house. I spend way too many nights and evenings away from home to consider this a nice easy lifestyle. That has not changed. Nobody is changing the rules. If you went into a specialty with false assumptions, you put your trust in a four letter acronym and did not do your homework.
I had a colleague a few years ago that would try and convince med students to go into our specialty because you would be off by certain times of the day. I would go behind her and tell them that was not true and tell all of the truth about our specialty. The last thing I want is someone in our specialty who thinks it is a lifestyle specialty. I want colleagues who know the meaning of hard work.

I didn't say programs actively recruited with the ROAD mnemonic. But the boom in applicants to the field was due to the controlled lifestyle that Anesthesiology once was, and maybe still is.

 

[Guy Caballero]

I didn't say programs actively recruited with the ROAD mnemonic. But the boom in applicants to the field was due to the controlled lifestyle that Anesthesiology once was, and maybe still is.

You can likely find places to work where lifestyle will be awesome. There are also many places that are the complete opposite spectrum. If you train with a mentality that lifestyle is your number one priority and that it is okay to call in sick just because you don't want to work that day or dislike your case assignment, you will likely be poorly trained, unprofessional, hated by your colleagues, and dangerous to your patients. Every residency program has a person like this. Don't be that person. Work hard, study hard, respect your colleagues, pull your weight, work when you are supposed to, don't call in sick for trivial matters, if you have kids, arrange a back up plan if they are sick. It is really pretty simple.