Extra debt worth it? Or risk it and reapply?

[mochime0w]

Hello, so it’s my first time applying to PT schools, my stats are not amazing but I’ve been trying to work on them and wasn’t expecting to get into any programs this cycle but wanted to try anyways. As it has been for most people, it was hard to improve my stats during Covid, especially where I live now, in San Francisco where we still have pretty strict Covid rules. Anyways, I ended up getting in to 2 schools West Coast University & off the waitlist for Western University, and on the waitlist #40 currently at Samuel Merritt which is right by where I live and on Chapmans waitlist as well. I also applied to CSUN, CSULB, and UCSF but got declined for those. I did decline west coast university because it’s a for profit school and seemed a bit sketchy.
Western is a good school it seems and I have a guarantee of a program now & graduating in 3 years and have my career by 30.

My dilemma is the financial aspect of it all. I did some math, and with tuition & living costs for western university I would have to take our around 200k or even a tiny bit more. I know there will be debt regardless, but this seems like it’s a bit too much especially with loan interest rates and rate of salary.

I am wondering if I should reapply this upcoming cycle and work on improving my GPA so I could either hopefully get into a state school which would only be around 100k in debt with living costs so about half, or reapplying to Samuel Merritt since I did get on the waitlist and even though it’s private I could stay with my family rent free plus probably additional help and only take out 140k in debt which is 60+k less than western, but reapplying is not a guarantee of getting in. Hypothetically I should get into at least one school since I got into 2 and am trying to improve my application , however you never know. I did land an inpatient gig and will be retaking 2 classes and an additional recommended one during summer/fall if I reapply so those are new.

My stats:

Hours: 2000+ outpatient clinic, 500 ish inpatient, 100 volunteering pt clinic, 100 volunteering at a hospital, 1 semester boys & girls club, some personal training

Degree: BS in sports nutrition, finishing a second BS in dietetics because why not only 2 classes and it boosts my GPA

GPA: about a 3.2/3.3. I’m planning to retake Chem 2 which I got a B- in, and take a nutrition course and a medical terminology course. Will make sure I get A’s lol


Letters of rec : 1 pt, 1 professor, 1 PTA. With my new position if I reapply, I could get another 1-2 PTs, and 1-2 PTA and OT


GRE: 149, 149, 4.0.
Yes this could be improved … not sure if I am going to retake the gre I have 3x and gotten the same score each time. If it’s a huge thing I will.


I just really would love any advice! I’ve been asking other PTs and etc at work and it’s been split. Ultimately it is my decision, I’m just worried about the extra debt and loans and it’s a late start, I have to scramble to find a place to live, scholarships are all set pretty much and I haven’t been to the area yet. I am planning to visit soon, I just found out about my admissions so I don’t have much time to figure things out.
It would be nice to either not have to move and save some money next year, but I am worried about reapplying and not getting in anywhere next year and screwing myself over.


Thanks in advance!!

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[CalcaneusLongus]

Since money seems to be the biggest issue here, I'm wondering if perhaps you would be better off taking a year or two to save up money while living at home and working full time. I think that it will be hard to get into the state schools, but CSUF would be the one with the highest possibility for your stats. Is there a reason you did not apply to it? It is the cheapest school in California and in a low cost of living area.

It is no secret that the ROI for getting a DPT is hardly worth it if you have to take out 100k in loans. 200k in loans will be absolutely detrimental to your future success, unless you have the privilege of staying at home for several more years working full time to pay them off.

So your options to me look like this:

1. Take out 200k in loans and go to school for 3 yrs, then move back home (away from all your networking you did at Western) and stay at home for 5 more years to pay them off while also saving up for your own condo at ~35.
2. Save up 60-80k working full time for 1-3 years while living at home, fixing up your application as best you can and applying to state schools/Sam Merritt. At age 33 you graduate and have potentially 60k-100k in loans, stay at home for 1-2 years and pay them off/save up, and then buy a condo at age 35ish.
3. Take out 200k in loans and graduate at age 33, start working in the area and rent an apartment and pay $1000+ per month to pay off on your 30 year loans and never have the money to invest in your retirement or to save up for a down payment on a home till you are 50.

I think that more people should be asking themselves the question you are asking, which is -- Is this really worth it? This may certainly be the largest financial decision you may ever make in your life, if not for the next decade at least. If your only option is 200k in debt, that is a mountain of money that could be invested in so many other areas of life. If PT is your only option in life, then you need to seriously think of what you are going to sacrifice to make it happen, especially since State schools may be out of your reach. How many years are you willing to put off from living independently from your family in order to achieve this goal?

I hope this helps and feel free to reach out in a DM if you want to chat more.

 

[mochime0w]

Since money seems to be the biggest issue here, I'm wondering if perhaps you would be better off taking a year or two to save up money while living at home and working full time. I think that it will be hard to get into the state schools, but CSUF would be the one with the highest possibility for your stats. Is there a reason you did not apply to it? It is the cheapest school in California and in a low cost of living area.

It is no secret that the ROI for getting a DPT is hardly worth it if you have to take out 100k in loans. 200k in loans will be absolutely detrimental to your future success, unless you have the privilege of staying at home for several more years working full time to pay them off.

So your options to me look like this:

1. Take out 200k in loans and go to school for 3 yrs, then move back home (away from all your networking you did at Western) and stay at home for 5 more years to pay them off while also saving up for your own condo at ~35.
2. Save up 60-80k working full time for 1-3 years while living at home, fixing up your application as best you can and applying to state schools/Sam Merritt. At age 33 you graduate and have potentially 60k-100k in loans, stay at home for 1-2 years and pay them off/save up, and then buy a condo at age 35ish.
3. Take out 200k in loans and graduate at age 33, start working in the area and rent an apartment and pay $1000+ per month to pay off on your 30 year loans and never have the money to invest in your retirement or to save up for a down payment on a home till you are 50.

I think that more people should be asking themselves the question you are asking, which is -- Is this really worth it? This may certainly be the largest financial decision you may ever make in your life, if not for the next decade at least. If your only option is 200k in debt, that is a mountain of money that could be invested in so many other areas of life. If PT is your only option in life, then you need to seriously think of what you are going to sacrifice to make it happen, especially since State schools may be out of your reach. How many years are you willing to put off from living independently from your family in order to achieve this goal?

I hope this helps and feel free to reach out in a DM if you want to chat more.

Hi, thanks so much for your detailed reply!
I honestly don’t know why I didn’t apply to CSUF, I should’ve and would definitely do that if I choose to reapply this next cycle. I didn’t apply to CSUSac because I was missing a class I believe.

I agree, 200k is insane and why I keep questioning what to do. I know PT school is ridiculously expensive but it is what I’d like to do, maybe PTA could be a consideration too. There is loan forgiveness if you work 10 years at a non profit (most hospitals I am assuming), so that was something I was thinking about, but obviously the less debt the better.
I could take a year off and work full time. Working as an aide doesn’t make much but I could host or serve tables while doing an aide job so that’s not a bad idea. It is jusr hard to work more when retaking classes due to labs being in person.

I’m leaning more towards taking a risk and reapplying, I feel like theoretically I should be improving my application, and argue my case for Samuel Merritt. I did schedule an application review with them in a few weeks so i can see what they say!

 

[CalcaneusLongus]

That seems like a good idea! I think working as an aide may not be super important with how many hours you have, unless it's to keep in contact with the PTs who are going to write your LoR. Waiting tables has always been a great money-maker, I did it for 5 years! Try to get into the highest menu place you can, don't settle for Chilis.

I'm not sure how much help retaking classes would be, in comparison to making money. Another option is to look into getting your personal training cert from the ACSM as an additional experience to compound the PT aide experience. I am a Massage Therapist and that was the additional experience + money maker that I used to set me apart from other applicants. Massage therapy school can be expensive and time-consuming though, I wouldn't do something that requires more than a month or two to start working.

I also see that you have your BS in nutrition, have you had a job in that field? As a personal trainer if you have the credentials you can be their nutritionist too and that can really set you apart and get you a job in a higher salaried position.

I think that you have a good shot at getting into CSUF or Merritt if you really show that DPT is for you and you're set on succeeding in this field. Show that each step you make is towards that. If you reapply you have to really convey that in your essay and really be passionate in your interviews.

I know that this is a lot to think about, I think that you're doing the right thing by considering all your choices instead of just going with the flow. The river's current often pulls you to rapids.

 

[SATXDPT]

Since money seems to be the biggest issue here, I'm wondering if perhaps you would be better off taking a year or two to save up money while living at home and working full time. I think that it will be hard to get into the state schools, but CSUF would be the one with the highest possibility for your stats. Is there a reason you did not apply to it? It is the cheapest school in California and in a low cost of living area.

It is no secret that the ROI for getting a DPT is hardly worth it if you have to take out 100k in loans. 200k in loans will be absolutely detrimental to your future success, unless you have the privilege of staying at home for several more years working full time to pay them off.

So your options to me look like this:

1. Take out 200k in loans and go to school for 3 yrs, then move back home (away from all your networking you did at Western) and stay at home for 5 more years to pay them off while also saving up for your own condo at ~35.
2. Save up 60-80k working full time for 1-3 years while living at home, fixing up your application as best you can and applying to state schools/Sam Merritt. At age 33 you graduate and have potentially 60k-100k in loans, stay at home for 1-2 years and pay them off/save up, and then buy a condo at age 35ish.
3. Take out 200k in loans and graduate at age 33, start working in the area and rent an apartment and pay $1000+ per month to pay off on your 30 year loans and never have the money to invest in your retirement or to save up for a down payment on a home till you are 50.

I think that more people should be asking themselves the question you are asking, which is -- Is this really worth it? This may certainly be the largest financial decision you may ever make in your life, if not for the next decade at least. If your only option is 200k in debt, that is a mountain of money that could be invested in so many other areas of life. If PT is your only option in life, then you need to seriously think of what you are going to sacrifice to make it happen, especially since State schools may be out of your reach. How many years are you willing to put off from living independently from your family in order to achieve this goal?

I hope this helps and feel free to reach out in a DM if you want to chat more.

I like everything that you are saying except I never recommend that you take years off to work and save $$$ before starting school.
Here is why:
Every year that you work at a lower paying job is a year lost at PT wages. If you are going to make $30k per year for 2 years instead of $70k per year, then you just lost the potential to earn $80k in your life time. You are better off going to school, taking the loans and then paying them off after you graduate.
Better yet, consider taking advantage of Income Based Repayment (especially if PSLF is an option). If your debt to income ratio is going to be so bad, then the math is in your favor. Pay the 10% per year for 20 years and then take the hit on taxes when it gets forgiven.

 

[mochime0w]

I like everything that you are saying except I never recommend that you take years off to work and save $$$ before starting school.
Here is why:
Every year that you work at a lower paying job is a year lost at PT wages. If you are going to make $30k per year for 2 years instead of $70k per year, then you just lost the potential to earn $80k in your life time. You are better off going to school, taking the loans and then paying them off after you graduate.
Better yet, consider taking advantage of Income Based Repayment (especially if PSLF is an option). If your debt to income ratio is going to be so bad, then the math is in your favor. Pay the 10% per year for 20 years and then take the hit on taxes when it gets forgiven.

Totally that’s what I was thinking also, one year closer to working at the very least. I was thinking I’d reapply this upcoming cycle and then work extra if I got in until then. I definitely would take that option for loans as well or even consider working for the VA / doing their loan thing

Thanks for the advice!

 

[mochime0w]

That seems like a good idea! I think working as an aide may not be super important with how many hours you have, unless it's to keep in contact with the PTs who are going to write your LoR. Waiting tables has always been a great money-maker, I did it for 5 years! Try to get into the highest menu place you can, don't settle for Chilis.

I'm not sure how much help retaking classes would be, in comparison to making money. Another option is to look into getting your personal training cert from the ACSM as an additional experience to compound the PT aide experience. I am a Massage Therapist and that was the additional experience + money maker that I used to set me apart from other applicants. Massage therapy school can be expensive and time-consuming though, I wouldn't do something that requires more than a month or two to start working.

I also see that you have your BS in nutrition, have you had a job in that field? As a personal trainer if you have the credentials you can be their nutritionist too and that can really set you apart and get you a job in a higher salaried position.

I think that you have a good shot at getting into CSUF or Merritt if you really show that DPT is for you and you're set on succeeding in this field. Show that each step you make is towards that. If you reapply you have to really convey that in your essay and really be passionate in your interviews.

I know that this is a lot to think about, I think that you're doing the right thing by considering all your choices instead of just going with the flow. The river's current often pulls you to rapids.

I agree, working as an aide is not the best money wise lol. I work two aide jobs, one is a newer position and is inpatient so it pays decently well, however the other position does not and I have a good relationship with that PT so me quitting would be understandable, I could try to increase hours at the hospital or find a second job in food or whatever.

I know GPA is huge for state schools, so I wanted to at least retake one or two classes. I already signed up and my parents will pay for next semester so that is why I will probably do it.

Massage therapist is a cool position! I have not really worked in the nutrition field other than working at food jobs throughout high school and college, I could look into that though not a bad idea. I did argue about how my Nutriton degree sets me apart from many applicants so I could keep working on that, thank you!


Thanks again for everything, still thinking a bit of course jusr don’t have much time if I do decide to go to western I need to figure out housing etc ASAP. Lol

 

[mochime0w]

That seems like a good idea! I think working as an aide may not be super important with how many hours you have, unless it's to keep in contact with the PTs who are going to write your LoR. Waiting tables has always been a great money-maker, I did it for 5 years! Try to get into the highest menu place you can, don't settle for Chilis.

I'm not sure how much help retaking classes would be, in comparison to making money. Another option is to look into getting your personal training cert from the ACSM as an additional experience to compound the PT aide experience. I am a Massage Therapist and that was the additional experience + money maker that I used to set me apart from other applicants. Massage therapy school can be expensive and time-consuming though, I wouldn't do something that requires more than a month or two to start working.

I also see that you have your BS in nutrition, have you had a job in that field? As a personal trainer if you have the credentials you can be their nutritionist too and that can really set you apart and get you a job in a higher salaried position.

I think that you have a good shot at getting into CSUF or Merritt if you really show that DPT is for you and you're set on succeeding in this field. Show that each step you make is towards that. If you reapply you have to really convey that in your essay and really be passionate in your interviews.

I know that this is a lot to think about, I think that you're doing the right thing by considering all your choices instead of just going with the flow. The river's current often pulls you to rapids.

Do you think retaking the GRE is worth doing so? One thing I’d love to skip but if it’s a huge thing I’ll do it lol

 

[CalcaneusLongus]

Do you think retaking the GRE is worth doing so? One thing I’d love to skip but if it’s a huge thing I’ll do it lol

I think retaking the GRE would be worth it if you think you could score 155+ on it. You said you've taken it 3x, have you changed the way you study for it each time? I used Gregmat to study, and did the ETS math review guide. I think any way you can show that you are on an upward trend and that you are motivated, passionate, and ready to put in the work to succeed will help convince the admissions board.

As for the PSLF, I'm not really sure how it works. If what SATXDPT said and it is worth it if you have a mountain of debt, it could be something to look into. However, I believe you have to work at the same place for 10 or 20 years? You also will be making a lot less money on your salary for that time. So while you debt will be paid off, you're still hamstringing yourself financially. He mentioned that you lose $80k worth of earnings by taking the 2 years off, but I could argue that working for a $10k less salary for 10 years at a PSLF worksite loses you $100k of earnings. I'm also not sure if you are able to get raises while under a PSLF contract.

Remember, you are making a decision that will impact you for the rest of your life. Do your research. This is a BIG decision.

 

[mochime0w]

I think retaking the GRE would be worth it if you think you could score 155+ on it. You said you've taken it 3x, have you changed the way you study for it each time? I used Gregmat to study, and did the ETS math review guide. I think any way you can show that you are on an upward trend and that you are motivated, passionate, and ready to put in the work to succeed will help convince the admissions board.

As for the PSLF, I'm not really sure how it works. If what SATXDPT said and it is worth it if you have a mountain of debt, it could be something to look into. However, I believe you have to work at the same place for 10 or 20 years? You also will be making a lot less money on your salary for that time. So while you debt will be paid off, you're still hamstringing yourself financially. He mentioned that you lose $80k worth of earnings by taking the 2 years off, but I could argue that working for a $10k less salary for 10 years at a PSLF worksite loses you $100k of earnings. I'm also not sure if you are able to get raises while under a PSLF contract.

Remember, you are making a decision that will impact you for the rest of your life. Do your research. This is a BIG decision.

I think I will probably reapply this cycle and try ti improve my application. I at the very least will have more experience and letter of recommendations, and two classes retaken.
I’m going to still check out the campus and area next week before a final decision but I think you’re right and I’m going to go with my gut. As far as the GRE first time I did magoosh, second time I did tutoring and 3rd time I did the combo of the both. To be honest I could put more time with the GRE, but at that time I was working full time and taking an online class

I really appreciate all the thoughts and
Efforts into your responses

 

[CalcaneusLongus]

That sounds like a good plan! Whenever I have large decisions like this my grandfather would tell me to look at all the angles and make a "calculated risk". You are taking the risk that you get into a better option next year, and I think you will too!

You're very welcome, I always am glad to help out people when I can.
Make your goals and stick with them! I'll see you out in the DPT field in a few years

 

[ya1]

Hello, so it’s my first time applying to PT schools, my stats are not amazing but I’ve been trying to work on them and wasn’t expecting to get into any programs this cycle but wanted to try anyways. As it has been for most people, it was hard to improve my stats during Covid, especially where I live now, in San Francisco where we still have pretty strict Covid rules. Anyways, I ended up getting in to 2 schools West Coast University & off the waitlist for Western University, and on the waitlist #40 currently at Samuel Merritt which is right by where I live and on Chapmans waitlist as well. I also applied to CSUN, CSULB, and UCSF but got declined for those. I did decline west coast university because it’s a for profit school and seemed a bit sketchy.
Western is a good school it seems and I have a guarantee of a program now & graduating in 3 years and have my career by 30.

My dilemma is the financial aspect of it all. I did some math, and with tuition & living costs for western university I would have to take our around 200k or even a tiny bit more. I know there will be debt regardless, but this seems like it’s a bit too much especially with loan interest rates and rate of salary.

I am wondering if I should reapply this upcoming cycle and work on improving my GPA so I could either hopefully get into a state school which would only be around 100k in debt with living costs so about half, or reapplying to Samuel Merritt since I did get on the waitlist and even though it’s private I could stay with my family rent free plus probably additional help and only take out 140k in debt which is 60+k less than western, but reapplying is not a guarantee of getting in. Hypothetically I should get into at least one school since I got into 2 and am trying to improve my application , however you never know. I did land an inpatient gig and will be retaking 2 classes and an additional recommended one during summer/fall if I reapply so those are new.

My stats:

Hours: 2000+ outpatient clinic, 500 ish inpatient, 100 volunteering pt clinic, 100 volunteering at a hospital, 1 semester boys & girls club, some personal training

Degree: BS in sports nutrition, finishing a second BS in dietetics because why not only 2 classes and it boosts my GPA

GPA: about a 3.2/3.3. I’m planning to retake Chem 2 which I got a B- in, and take a nutrition course and a medical terminology course. Will make sure I get A’s lol


Letters of rec : 1 pt, 1 professor, 1 PTA. With my new position if I reapply, I could get another 1-2 PTs, and 1-2 PTA and OT


GRE: 149, 149, 4.0.
Yes this could be improved … not sure if I am going to retake the gre I have 3x and gotten the same score each time. If it’s a huge thing I will.


I just really would love any advice! I’ve been asking other PTs and etc at work and it’s been split. Ultimately it is my decision, I’m just worried about the extra debt and loans and it’s a late start, I have to scramble to find a place to live, scholarships are all set pretty much and I haven’t been to the area yet. I am planning to visit soon, I just found out about my admissions so I don’t have much time to figure things out.
It would be nice to either not have to move and save some money next year, but I am worried about reapplying and not getting in anywhere next year and screwing myself over.


Thanks in advance!!

State schools are very competitive and accept only 30-ish people. (How many applicants are there now? 1000-1300? )I do not think you can improve your stats to get to a state school. Students that state schools accept have GPAs at least 3.5 (more likely 3.7 and up) and GRE scores close or above 160s.
To re-apply to another private school... They may raise their tuition by who knows how much for the next cycle. So 60K difference may go down to 40-50K difference. And it is a gamble.

 

[mochime0w]

State schools are very competitive and accept only 30-ish people. (How many applicants are there now? 1000-1300? )I do not think you can improve your stats to get to a state school. Students that state schools accept have GPAs at least 3.5 (more likely 3.7 and up) and GRE scores close or above 160s.
To re-apply to another private school... They may raise their tuition by who knows how much for the next cycle. So 60K difference may go down to 40-50K difference. And it is a gamble.

Totally, I agree. I’m more banking on Samuel Merritt because it is local and I would save on living costs, and there is at least some interest since I am on the waitlist currently and I will have a 3.4/3.5 if things go well over the summer and fall class wise if I do choose to reapply

I would still reapply to state schools just incase though, as there are a few I did not apply to!

I’m still debating but 200k in debt just does not seem worth it

 

[mochime0w]

State schools are very competitive and accept only 30-ish people. (How many applicants are there now? 1000-1300? )I do not think you can improve your stats to get to a state school. Students that state schools accept have GPAs at least 3.5 (more likely 3.7 and up) and GRE scores close or above 160s.
To re-apply to another private school... They may raise their tuition by who knows how much for the next cycle. So 60K difference may go down to 40-50K difference. And it is a gamble.

Also I just checked, increase of 3% at Samuel Merritt , so like 4-5K