Extracurriculars in DO school

[bond80009]

I'm going to be entering a DO program in the Fall. I want to be as competitive as possible when it comes time to apply for residency.
Besides good grades, and a good step1 score, what activities should I do.
Where and how should I do research?
What extracurricular activities should I do?

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[GlowInTheDark]

College is over as is the medical school admission hoop jumping. ECs don't matter.

Read Table 2:
http://academicdepartments.musc.edu/gme/pdfs/Selection criteria for residency.pdf

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The only EC that may matter is research if the field you're trying to obtain is particularly harder to match or fond of it (like Neurology).

 

[GreyF0X]

College is over as is the medical school admission hoop jumping. ECs don't matter.

Read Table 2:
http://academicdepartments.musc.edu/gme/pdfs/Selection criteria for residency.pdf

Thanks for sharing this. I did not want a repeat of undergrad, again.

 

[DocEspana]

College is over as is the medical school admission hoop jumping. ECs don't matter.

Read Table 2:
http://academicdepartments.musc.edu/gme/pdfs/Selection criteria for residency.pdf

I definitely would not say that. But now in Med school any EC you do should show some real dedication. If you join a group is worthless. If you're the chapter president at your school is worthless. If you hold a national student level position you actually have something on your hands. If you hold a national "big boy" position you have a real positive.

Everyone in clubs is usually at level one or two and those mean nothing. The number of people who can possibly reach that third or fourth level is increasingly small so that's eye catching.

 

[DrLeon]

I completely disagree with the first two posters and agree with @DocEspana. I personally have done no because I hold national positions, and I lack the time for any other extracurriculars. I've been a national office in at least one organization since second year, and often I have held multiple positions. I will be competitive because I'm already a leader and will likely continue to stay involved through residency and beyond. As was mentioned, don't join a club in the chapter level and think that will suffice. Regional and national positions should be your goal, and only pursue these positions in clubs you really care about.

 

[GlowInTheDark]

I definitely would not say that. But now in Med school any EC you do should show some real dedication. If you join a group is worthless. If you're the chapter president at your school is worthless. If you hold a national student level position you actually have something on your hands. If you hold a national "big boy" position you have a real positive.

Everyone in clubs is usually at level one or two and those mean nothing. The number of people who can possibly reach that third or fourth level is increasingly small so that's eye catching.

I wasn't thinking beyond ones main campus.

I agree about national level positions.

 

[dr.sartorius]

Honestly grades are not as as important as your step score, I see students killing themselves to get honors and in the end if an average joe beats them on step 1, thats what all the residencies will see. Regardless of this everyone has a "competitive" mentality deep down and still want to be the best. Pass every class but don't burn yourself out trying to get the best grades, focus on boards and dedicate to only a few select ECs that will get you looked at. Don't spread yourself too thin, some people joined so many clubs as officers and they suffer because of it. This isn't undergrad in the sense that u need 100 ECs, med school is about quality not quantity.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Honestly grades are not as as important as your step score, I see students killing themselves to get honors and in the end if an average joe beats them on step 1, thats what all the residencies will see. Regardless of this everyone has a "competitive" mentality deep down and still want to be the best. Pass every class but don't burn yourself out trying to get the best grades, focus on boards and dedicate to only a few select ECs that will get you looked at. Don't spread yourself too thin, some people joined so many clubs as officers and they suffer because of it. This isn't undergrad in the sense that u need 100 ECs, med school is about quality not quantity.

We should differentiate between pre-clinical and clinical grades though. Honoring rotations in your desired field can have a positive impact on your application, although I agree the Step is the most important.

 

[bond80009]

I definitely would not say that. But now in Med school any EC you do should show some real dedication. If you join a group is worthless. If you're the chapter president at your school is worthless. If you hold a national student level position you actually have something on your hands. If you hold a national "big boy" position you have a real positive.

Everyone in clubs is usually at level one or two and those mean nothing. The number of people who can possibly reach that third or fourth level is increasingly small so that's eye catching.

What are some examples of the organizations you are referring to? What is a national position I should try to work toward?

 

[bond80009]

The only EC that may matter is research if the field you're trying to obtain is particularly harder to match or fond of it (like Neurology).

Where and how can I do neurology, radiology, dermatology etc research as a DO student. There is no hospital on the campus of the college I will be going to.

 

[meliora27]

Where and how can I do neurology, radiology, dermatology etc research as a DO student. There is no hospital on the campus of the college I will be going to.

Are there bench research opportunities? Are there other academic medical centers or university's nearby?

 

[DocEspana]

What are some examples of the organizations you are referring to? What is a national position I should try to work toward?

American Medical Association is the best. Literally every other group (including to a small degree the AOA) is a represented group under them

ABMS specialty societies would be next best if you have a national position in the field you're applying to.

Then AOA (sorry, but rising to the top of a group that only represents DOs has less clout across the board then one that represents all doctors in a field of any degree)

Then AOA aligned specialty groups

Then special interest in medicine groups (like the AHQA, a quality improvement society)

Then any school or local groups, regardless of where on the totem pole you fall.

 

[group_theory]

When looking at ERAS application packets (for residency interviews, and for fellowship interviews), I only pay attention to the EC portion to get a sense of the applicant's interest (and what they do in their spare time) ... it's also cannon fodder for interview discussion (and a way for me to distinguish one applicant from another)

/hey, you try interviewing 4-6 people a day, 30 minutes per applicants, for multiple days/weeks, and see how many details you will remember about the 30-50 applicants you interviewed. Grades, USMLE/COMLEX scores, LORs, all start looking the same. The EC will be unique and will help me remember people

//if you join too many clubs, then it's hard for me to really figure out which clubs you are interested/passionate about, and which you joined because it would look good on your application

///if you join no clubs and have no EC, then I'm curious what you did with your free time while in medical school (and can you handle work-life balance)

////overall, ECs make little to no difference in where you end up on the rank list. You can be the chapter president, but it won't change your standing. Holding national office is impressive, but wouldn't make up for any deficiencies in your application (and I have never seen anyone move up in ranking during our rank list meeting because he/she held national office).

///// yay 5 slashies. But seriously, join clubs/activities that interest you. Don't do it to impress or augment your application.

////// Research is a different beast and my above advice do not apply when it comes to research (esp if you are applying to university programs - not sure how much weight community programs will place on research)

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

When looking at ERAS application packets (for residency interviews, and for fellowship interviews), I only pay attention to the EC portion to get a sense of the applicant's interest (and what they do in their spare time) ... it's also cannon fodder for interview discussion (and a way for me to distinguish one applicant from another)

/hey, you try interviewing 4-6 people a day, 30 minutes per applicants, for multiple days/weeks, and see how many details you will remember about the 30-50 applicants you interviewed. Grades, USMLE/COMLEX scores, LORs, all start looking the same. The EC will be unique and will help me remember people

//if you join too many clubs, then it's hard for me to really figure out which clubs you are interested/passionate about, and which you joined because it would look good on your application

///if you join no clubs and have no EC, then I'm curious what you did with your free time while in medical school (and can you handle work-life balance)

////overall, ECs make little to no difference in where you end up on the rank list. You can be the chapter president, but it won't change your standing. Holding national office is impressive, but wouldn't make up for any deficiencies in your application (and I have never seen anyone move up in ranking during our rank list meeting because he/she held national office).

///// yay 5 slashies. But seriously, join clubs/activities that interest you. Don't do it to impress or augment your application.

////// Research is a different beast and my above advice do not apply when it comes to research (esp if you are applying to university programs - not sure how much weight community programs will place on research)

But what if research is something I really enjoy doing? Wouldn't that cancel out your curiosity of how I spent my free time?

 

[Petypet]

But what if research is something I really enjoy doing? Wouldn't that cancel out your curiosity of how I spent my free time?

If you do research all the time, on top of course work, you are setting your self up for a lot of anxiety.

 

[SurgeDO]

I completely disagree with the first two posters and agree with @DocEspana. I personally have done no because I hold national positions, and I lack the time for any other extracurriculars. I've been a national office in at least one organization since second year, and often I have held multiple positions. I will be competitive because I'm already a leader and will likely continue to stay involved through residency and beyond. As was mentioned, don't join a club in the chapter level and think that will suffice. Regional and national positions should be your goal, and only pursue these positions in clubs you really care about.

i think the past president of the SAOA would strongly disagree with you:

http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2013/0...terity-key-to-becoming-an-orthopedic-surgeon/

 

[DrLeon]

i think the past president of the SAOA would strongly disagree with you:

http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2013/0...terity-key-to-becoming-an-orthopedic-surgeon/

Good for him.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If you do research all the time, on top of course work, you are setting your self up for a lot of anxiety.

Maybe I've had a different research experience than most, but it's actually relaxing. I listen to music on the cryostat or watch a show from netflix on my phone. I pipette a few things and toss them into the qpcr, etc.

 

[meliora27]

The best EC you can have is a high Step 1 score. I think that will take you farther than a lot of other things. President of a club isn't going to make up for a below average test score. And sure it's important who you know, but it's probably pretty hard for someone to make a case for you when ranking residents if your scores are way below the others.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

College is over as is the medical school admission hoop jumping. ECs don't matter.

Read Table 2:
http://academicdepartments.musc.edu/gme/pdfs/Selection criteria for residency.pdf

Research matters

 

[GlowInTheDark]

Research matters

Sure does. Comes in 13th and 14th out of 14 criteria in that study.

Only tip I can give, do research because you're interested, not to check a box. I got myself in contact with residents and do a few hours a week when I can.

 

[DrEnderW]

Those studies are great but it's very program and specialty specific.

Research is hugely important for many programs and you can see the # of average pubs and research experiences for each individual specialty using the match data released yearly. Even if it's not mandatory, it's an activity that will increase your competitiveness no matter what your goal is.

Research, especially translational/clinical, also teaches you a wealth of information about a specialty which would clearly help you during rotations. Secondly, it's great for networking and getting opportunities to work with physicians in your field. For example, if you're doing GS research you could get to scrub into a ton of surgeries and create a very solid base knowledge. Taking advantage of these opportunities creates new opportunities in the future.

It's worth considering if you have the interest.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

If you think research is not a large boost to a residency application, I think its pretty safe to say you are in a small group of people. That study takes into account a lot of things that you don't have control of necessarily, like "Medical School academic awards", "Med School reputation" etc. I'm sure they think about those things but other than clinical grades, Step scores research is next and most would agree with that. There are tons of forums on here too that say AOA isn't that important because schools have different criteria and the Residency Coordinators know that.

 

[Petypet]

Sure does. Comes in 13th and 14th out of 14 criteria in that study.

Only tip I can give, do research because you're interested, not to check a box. I got myself in contact with residents and do a few hours a week when I can.

I personally wouldn't use an 8 year old survey to justify not doing research, especially when the charting outcomes demonstrate how many publications competitive students have. Keep in mind, that research is super important for the cream of the crop, competitive, specialities. When a PD gets 20+ apps of 240+, AOA, etc, research and publication demonstrates a willingness to advance the field.

I think for a DO, research is one of the best ways we can compete with and out-shine MDs. We got 2-3 points less on the MCAT, but need to make sure that the PDs know that we can get 240+ on our step exams, and we are willing to go the extra mile to better ourselves and the field. DOs are traditionally not involved with academic research and by playing the MD's game you only increase your chances at getting a better residency.

Hell, one does not need to like research to do it, but if it means not doing a residency at a AOA program in tim-buck-too then, I would recommend faking it till you make it.

 

[GlowInTheDark]

I'm not taking a position that advises against research. Again, I do it myself and don't disagree with what others are saying.

What I feel is being misrepresented is its relative importance in the grand scheme.

In an "all things being equal" situation and competitive arenas, surely you'll get an edge. However, you can't bank on it making up for inadequate board scores and clinical grades, which, for one starting school like the OP, is important to grasp.

 

[meliora27]

Do you like playing softball or flag-football? If so, you should do those EC's. Are you interested in anesthesia? If so, join the student interest group. Do you want to be in the most competitive position possible when applying to residency? If so, try to do some bench research during M1/2 and try to get a couple posters or case reports during M3. Study hard. Don't be a jerk.

 

[dr.sartorius]

Something that really isn't talked about much by students is personality. I've been told by several faculty you can have a wonderful board score but if your personality doesn't mesh well with the group they'll go with the cool guy they can grab a drink with after work despite him having a lower score. I was told its a big part of why they may or may not choose an applicant.

 

[DoctorSammyU]

I can tell you that you definitely want to do well on your step 1/level 1. On the other hand, I was in an allopathic residency. When students interviewed for residency, we were allowed to offer input as to the behavior, personality, etc of those who interviewed. If we couldn't get along with them, why would we want to train with them? This may not be true everywhere keep in mind.

I was president of my student gvmt at LECOM-Bradenton and involved with FOMA. These organizations helped me to build lasting relationships with physicians that I view as mentors. When I see them at medical conferences, its great to catch up with them. I don't know if it really helped me with getting into residency, but I'm glad I had those experiences in medical school.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Something that really isn't talked about much by students is personality. I've been told by several faculty you can have a wonderful board score but if your personality doesn't mesh well with the group they'll go with the cool guy they can grab a drink with after work despite him having a lower score. I was told its a big part of why they may or may not choose an applicant.

I had an anesthesia attending telling me that because I play guitar that'll help me a lot come residency matching because they get great apps and at the day having fun and fitting in is a strong component of who they end up choosing in that sea of great applicants. This was at UCSF though.