Failing out of med school, and trying to get back In.

[outgolfing26]

Just a question to pose...but, has anyone failed out of med school...and tried to get back in? If a person wasn't able to pass the boards, or certain classes....and was kicked out. Would other schools consider this applicant?.....Either MD, DO, or foreign medical schools....? What process would a person have to go through to try and get back?..

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[NonTradMed]

I can't speak from experience but from what I've heard, med schools seem adverse to admitting students who failed medical student. I think at least one application I filled out explicitly stated they will not take a student who've been admitted and then failed out of med school. I'm not sure if this is a general policy most/all med schools have or just that one, but I doubt medical schools will look on failing out of medical schools in a positive light.

I would think that carribean schools would accept anyone who can pay and meet their (lower) requirements, so I guess someone who've failed a US med school can apply to a carribean school.

 

[MeowMix]

It is difficult to fail out of med school, at least where I go to school.

It is not difficult to fail a class. However, they still want your tuition $$ and will give you multiple chances to return and take courses over again. There are people in our MS1 class who are taking one or more courses for the second or third time.

Now you understand that anyone who gets kicked out because of failing classes in years 1 and 2 has probably had serious, sustained problems over two years or more. For that reason, they are likely to be seen as a high risk for readmission unless the underlying problems were temporary and have been resolved.

Failing boards is another issue. You can go back and retake. However, you can't graduate without passing the boards eventually. Again, if you have tried and failed multiple times, being readmitted is unlikely to make you a better candidate.

Getting dismissed for disciplinary reasons, academic violations, etc. is another whole issue. There is a tremendous emphasis on professionalism and appropriate conduct. A red flag such as this would again make you a very high-risk candidate for readmission.

 

[outgolfing26]

Failing boards is another issue. You can go back and retake. However, you can't graduate without passing the boards eventually. Again, if you have tried and failed multiple times, being readmitted is unlikely to make you a better candidate.



YEAH, I think my school might have a policy where if you fail the boards three time, you might be thrown out.....And I'm down to my last try.....thanks for the info. I wonder if optometry school would except me...hahah...does anyone know?...Well I missed the last passing exam....Comlex by 15 points....so close...ahha..

 

[premedmijo]

They let you take it three times. I remember a dean--at orientation--say something like if you take a twice and don't pass you need to find another career ... I guess my school is a little harsh.

 

[NonTradMed]

Failing boards is another issue. You can go back and retake. However, you can't graduate without passing the boards eventually. Again, if you have tried and failed multiple times, being readmitted is unlikely to make you a better candidate.



YEAH, I think my school might have a policy where if you fail the boards three time, you might be thrown out.....And I'm down to my last try.....thanks for the info. I wonder if optometry school would except me...hahah...does anyone know?...Well I missed the last passing exam....Comlex by 15 points....so close...ahha..

Sorry to hear that....that sucks....maybe you should reassess your study habits and see what you are doing wrong? Or hire a tutor? Just some ideas. Good luck.

 

[Mr hawkings]

I can't speak from experience but from what I've heard, med schools seem adverse to admitting students who failed medical student. I think at least one application I filled out explicitly stated they will not take a student who've been admitted and then failed out of med school. I'm not sure if this is a general policy most/all med schools have or just that one, but I doubt medical schools will look on failing out of medical schools in a positive light.

I would think that carribean schools would accept anyone who can pay and meet their (lower) requirements, so I guess someone who've failed a US med school can apply to a carribean school.

I personally know someone who failed out of the first year med school and got into a carribean school. hes in the middle of his second year there now. I failed out the same time as him and i'm still trying to get into an MD school in the states. So far, i've been getting negative feedback from the schools concerning my previous matriculation. A lot of them flat out rejected me pre-secondary.

 

[cooldreams]

dang that sucks. what did you guys do to fail out? flunk all classes or something? i thought even if you flunk a couple you are ok...

 

[FoughtFyr]

They let you take it three times. I remember a dean--at orientation--say something like if you take a twice and don't pass you need to find another career ... I guess my school is a little harsh.

Actually, he is not being harsh, he is being truthful. State medical boards, Minnesota for example, may not license you if you have failed a board three times. See: http://www.fsmb.org/2004usmle/paper_route/html_files/minnesota_part_4.htm

"Minnesota applicants are limited to three (3) attempts to pass USMLE Step 1 and three (3) attempts to pass USMLE Step 2. Applicants who fail USMLE Step 1 a third time or Step 2 a third time will NOT be allowed to sit for USMLE Step 3 in the State of Minnesota.

All Minnesota applicants are limited to three (3) attempts to pass USMLE Step 3. Applicants who fail USMLE Step 3 for the third time will NOT be authorized to sit for USMLE Step 3 in the state of Minnesota.​

There is no reason for a school to continue training you if you can not become licensed.

- H

 

[cooldreams]

There is no reason for a school to continue training you if you can not become licensed.

- H

why is that? does every single person who goes to medical school become a practicing doctor?

 

[EMTLizzy]

why is that? does every single person who goes to medical school become a practicing doctor?

No, you can finish medical school and become a greeter at Wal-Mart, but you still need to pass the first two steps to graduate.

I don't think medical schools are in the business of accepting students who can't pass the minimum licensing exams. It doesn't look good for the school.

Now, CHOOSING not to get a license...that's another story. But I thought we were talking about someone who wants to get one, but can't pass the test.

 

[bigbassinbob]

why is that? does every single person who goes to medical school become a practicing doctor?

Um, yeah... that's the idea...

 

[cooldreams]

No, you can finish medical school and become a greeter at Wal-Mart, but you still need to pass the first two steps to graduate.

I don't think medical schools are in the business of accepting students who can't pass the minimum licensing exams. It doesn't look good for the school.

Now, CHOOSING not to get a license...that's another story. But I thought we were talking about someone who wants to get one, but can't pass the test.

i know we are talking about ppl like that, and i am here to get my license as well, but simple fact, there are thousands of individuals out there that could get a license but dont have one. they just use the degree in other endeavors like pharmacy, research, even medical sales or others. by far most ppl use the degree to get the license, but there are a lot of ppl who dont. that was my point. im sure you dont care about my point, but my point stands in stark contrast to your only reason why ppl goto medical school.

 

[FoughtFyr]

they just use the degree in other endeavors like pharmacy, research, even medical sales or others.

Actually, most of these people get their license, they just don't practice medicine. In reasearch and pharmacy (not sales), MD/DOs are used as "oversight" for studies involving human subjects. Can't do that without a license.

As for other jobs, your inability/ineligibility to obtain your license, I imagine, would be a significant "hurdle" to jump in the hiring process. I think it is perfectly reasonable for a school to release you if you are no longer eligible for licensure. Especially given the monetary costs involved in medical school and the need to (eventually) repay your loans.

- H

 

[EMTLizzy]

im sure you dont care about my point, but my point stands in stark contrast to your only reason why ppl goto medical school.

I never approached the subject of why people go to medical school.

The "point" was that medical schools don't gear their education to those who will never practice.

Therefore, students learn what they need to know to become a practicing physician....and, logically, to pass the required licensing exam.

And why would I not care about your point?

This is going nowhere.

 

[knittydoc]

I am in jeapordy of failing out of med school. I never did anything unprofessional, just bad academic record; and not even across the board. I have A's and B's, too. But it still might not be enough to pass this year.

Anyone heard of someone with success getting into DO school? Or of getting some other degree and re-applying?

I was a pretty competitive candidate back when I got in 2 yrs ago and I was involved in the clinic last year, so I'm golden on the EC's.

I'd consider the tropics but I burn like a mo-fo. And my spouse is about to finish residency.

 

[silas2642]

I am in jeapordy of failing out of med school, too (a long, complicated story mostly involving their attempts to "fix" a problem with their biochemistry class which only led to over half their most promising, highest GPA and MCAT group of students EVER in the history of the school failing the biochem course at 2/3 of the way through the course). I never did anything unprofessional, just bad academic record; and not even across the board. I have A's and B's, too. But it still might not be enough to pass this year.

Anyone heard of someone with success getting into DO school? Or of getting some other degree and re-applying?

I was a pretty competitive candidate back when I got in 2 yrs ago and I was co-pres of our student-run free clinic last year, so I'm golden on the EC's.

I'd consider the tropics but I burn like a mo-fo. And my spouse is about to finish residency.

Wait, your school is considering kicking you out over a bad biochemistry course? I find that kind of hard to believe; have you talked to your dean yet about your situation? Where the heck do you go to school, anyway?

 

[knittydoc]

To answer your disbelief, yes, I have been in touch with the powers that be.

So, back to my question...anyone heard of a former MD student getting back into MD school or getting into DO school?

 

[Toran]

Do your best to stay in the school you're at.
Don't mention your school on here, I am positive there are others in your class and administration watching this post.
Search past topics on SDN for other students failing out, and you'll see that others have made it back in.
YOU CAN DO IT!

Good luck

 

[naru]

it's nearly impossible to reapply to us med schools after failing (md or do). from what i've heard, there's two things you can do if you still want to pursue a career in medicine.

1. go to carrib/international schools. some carribs may even transfer some of your credits, but dont count on it. i know a guy who failed uc davis fouth year and went to ross university and started his clinicals over again at year 3.

2. wait about a decade or two before applying. the longer you wait, the better the chance for admission. you can be doing anything you want during this time, but a few years before you re-apply, you WILL have to retake your basic prereqs and mcats. but med schools are slightly more forgiving of dropping med school if it happened many many many years ago.

unless someone else on this board has some information that i don't know, these are the only 2 shots you have at becoming a doctor IF you drop out. so REALLY REALLY REALLY try your best to work things out with this medical school!

good luck to you!

 

[Gabby]

How do you fail fourth year? I thought it was the first two years that were really tough academically, then third year that was tough clinically. I've heard that fourth year is elective rotations and residency interviews. Was it a case of med school "senioritis"?

 

[Taurus]

If you fail out of US MD school, you're very unlikely to get back into another one. DO school is doable, but still tough. Caribbean MD is your best bet. Try to stay in if you can.

 

[naru]

How do you fail fourth year? I thought it was the first two years that were really tough academically, then third year that was tough clinically. I've heard that fourth year is elective rotations and residency interviews. Was it a case of med school "senioritis"?

something to do with cheating or plagerism and retaking a class and not having enough time. he was really fuzzy about it. i don't think he did anything dishonest because i doubt even ross would accept someone who was expelled for cheating.

 

[Taurus]

Med schools will toss you out immediately if you do anything inappropriate with a patient.

 

[countrydoc09]

 

[Raven Feather]

To answer your disbelief, yes, I have been in touch with the powers that be. Last year there were bout 6 of us that had to repeat our first year due to failing this course, and a bunch of us failed again due to their dismal failure to solve the problem which resulted in an even higher number of failures...they curved the course for the first time in 25 years, but it still didn't help a whole bunch of people. I have been talking to the student affairs people until I was blue in the face (the actual dean of the medical school has very little time for peons, and scheduling a meeting is not something that can just be done unless you have something he wants). I took a 482 undergrad biochem course (i have a chem minor) for two semesters, with lab, both semesters, taught by a Harvard PhD and made _A's_. I really feel like they aren't trying to do much to help us out...one of the remaining institutions where they think it's part of the deal to put you through the ringer and see if you survive, because it will make you stronger, I suppose. I am not willing to divulge where I go to school yet in case they have more loyal members (faculty, staff, or students) lurking around these pages, and since I am aware that my best chance for success is to stay in this school if they'll let me and just graduate.

So, back to my question...anyone heard of a former MD student getting back into MD school or getting into DO school?

Are you at an off-shore MD school? I heard many of their policies are a lot stricter than that in the states.

 

[Medical123]

Just a question to pose...but, has anyone failed out of med school...and tried to get back in? If a person wasn't able to pass the boards, or certain classes....and was kicked out. Would other schools consider this applicant?.....Either MD, DO, or foreign medical schools....? What process would a person have to go through to try and get back?..

I obviously don't have any experience in this field either, but could you talk with your Dean's office and see what their view on this is? Would it be possible for you to reapply as a first year at this particular school if you should be dismissed? Make it known to them just how much you want to be a physician and how you are willing to work hard to correct any deficiencies that you might have in order to become the physician that you can be. I don't know how receptive that they would be to this, but it is just a thought. Good luck.

 

[njbmd]

Just a question to pose...but, has anyone failed out of med school...and tried to get back in? If a person wasn't able to pass the boards, or certain classes....and was kicked out. Would other schools consider this applicant?.....Either MD, DO, or foreign medical schools....? What process would a person have to go through to try and get back?..

Hi there,
Contrary to popular belief, it is fairly easy to fail out of medical school if you just cannot pass the course work. Before that happens, many medical schools will give you a chance to repeat a year or unload you (split one year into two years).

Most medical schools give you three tries to pass USMLE Step I. If you fail once, you retake. If you fail on the second time, you are dropped back a year to take an intensive course, psychological counseling and then retake. Fail on the third retake and and you are dropped.

Once dropped from a medical school in this country, you are not likely to be readmitted to any other medical school. You have the option of attempted to be re-admitted to your previous school (application for re-admission) but you would have to show that you have corrected your test-taking problems.

Every year, there are a handfull of US medical students who fail USMLE Step I or II three times. At my school, if you fail Step II three times, you are not allowed to graduate. Again, on failure the second time, you are given the option of taking an intensive prep couse along with psycological counseling in order to figure out why you cannot pass this exam.

If you fail out during first and second year (due to extenuating circumstances) you may be allowed to return especially if you have corrected the problem. There was a medical student who was physically assaulted during her first year. She took a leave of absence for the rest of that year but failed a number of classes when she returned the following year. She sat out for three years, returned and did very well.

In another case, a student failed out of an medical school, lied about attending medical school and was admitted to a second medical school in another state. When the second medical school found out that she had failed out of one school, they promptly invalidated her acceptance (she was in the middle of fourth year) and dropped her. It was an expensive way to NOT get through medical school.

The thing to do is NOT fail out in the first place. At the first sign of trouble, ask for a leave of absence. It is far better to lose a year, get your problems worked out and then return. Most people fail in medical school because something does not allow them to put in the time necessary to master the material. This "something" could be anything from trauma to personal or family illness to personal distractions. If things like this become an issue, see your Dean of Students quickly and get some help. There are loads of things that can be done before a student fails. Once you fail out, there is little that can be done.

njbmd

 

[cooldreams]

some schools just let you fail and do nothing. after failing 2 classes they kick you out. no questions, no attempts to help. even if you asked for help or asked for a chance to take time off because of intense personal family problems, some schools will say no to you.

not all schools in the usa are the same.

btw, down with kcumb. do not attend this school if at all possible.

 

[jon stewart]

lets say you go back to your home country to do medicine, but while in your first year you finally become a permanent resident of the US. Then you quit school there and come back to the US and apply to US med schools. Is that okay? Will schools shut you out?

i know this is a little different from the original post.

 

[RxnMan]

I think the most worrisome part of that situation is that the person quit med school. ADCOMs would need to understand why that was done. Would it be possible to transfer to a US med school (I have no idea about the practicalities of this)? You may want to check the international forums for help on this.

 

[jon stewart]

i dont think a transfer from a foreign med school to a US one is possible if the applicant became a us permanent resident. If its true...then that would be amazing. Even transferring from one US school to another is very difficult.

I was just wondering what difficulties the applicant would face, would the med schools look down at the applicant for leaving med school in their home country? I guess it would count as quiting med school and that just sounds bad.

 

[RxnMan]

Investigate what your options are now, before you make a permanent choice. If it ends up that you have to quit, you can do that at any time. If you quit, and later realize that you could have transferred, then there's no going back.

 

[Blade28]

How do you fail fourth year? I thought it was the first two years that were really tough academically, then third year that was tough clinically. I've heard that fourth year is elective rotations and residency interviews. Was it a case of med school "senioritis"?

It's very, very tough to fail during your MS-IV year.