FDU Medco School of Pharmacy

[BMBiology]

You don't even know what his Ph.D. is in... how can you say he has no clue? It's not like he has an MBA or something, which is what you're suggesting his successor should have.

Further, the Dean is not here to advertise, he is here to engage students in direct talk. You know, over on Top law Schools, which is even more cynical than this place, (hard to believe), Deans that come and talk straight to students are applauded and thanked endlessly.

Just calm down bro.

"His area of research is on surface modification of Titanium materials to facilitate cell attachment, biomineralization, and interfacial adhesion." Does this sound like pharmacy to you? Give me a break here....

Of course, he is not training pharmacists for the traditional roles (because we all know they are already saturated). He's training pharmacists of the future! Roles that remotely exist today but will be plentiful 5 years from now!

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[Filler]

BMBiology, with all due respect, Ph.D.s can have insight on the profession of pharmacy. I’m presuming that you might have encountered one or two in a med chem class or pharmacology class you took. Suggesting that only pharmacists have the ability to take the opinions, insights, philosophies, perspectives and paradigms of a program and evaluate their merits is rather staggering. Furthermore, assuming that no pharmacist was involved or integral in the decision making and planning of this program is both incorrect and misguided. Look at some of the prior posts and you’ll see the discussions about the hundreds of stakeholders we have spoken to.

I think it's sad to see how disillusioned academia can be with the real world, especially with this profession in it's current state and also where it's heading. I think BMBiology is correct, unless you've worked in a true pharmacy setting really don't know the situation of the profession. As for your stakeholders, that's fantastic, their goal is to support their given interests and I bet none of them are interested in the welfare of the students you will be graduating.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

To be fair it isn't likely that all pharmacists are fully capable of putting a school together as well, so how would it be different for a PhD? I know pharmacists now who talk about how you will be getting 5-10 offers right out of pharm school because there is a shortage. Go work in industry, it's easy because they are expanding with their drug reps and novel drugs. Go open an independent because that's where the big bucks are. The knowledge of different fields doesn't come with the degree or a license, you have to actively research and hear from people to know what's going on. Why do you need a PharmD to do that rather than MS or PhD? The dean said there were a lot of people who put some input into the field, many of which could either be pharmacists or employers of different industries for pharmacists as well. It would be nice to see how strong these ties are for the kinds of residences and IPPE and APPE are available for students there.

But c'mon, cut me a break. There isn't exactly a degree for making a university of a given profession, ya know? I don't see a lot of schools offering the PhD in healthcare school development or etc. At least the dean has a scientific background and isn't a liberal arts major trying to get into another market.

And really, it's unfair to assault a dean of a school who is coming onto a forum to talk about a school. It sets a bad precedent and it could cause issues for deans coming onto SDN in general (med school, dental, pharmacy, etc.). I am not going to think about going to this school until I see a website with details solidified, but some people can at least ask some questions to try and see what's going on. In fact, the informatics isn't a degree offered at many schools as a dual MS for pharmDs so people interested might want to look into it. As of right now the school seems very similar to other schools but I reserve my opinions until I see what the website has to offer. Maybe there are some nice rotations available that will allow people to really experience different fields, I don't know.

 

[BMBiology]

As of right now the school seems very similar to other schools but I reserve my opinions until I see what the website has to offer.

Yes, having a good website is the key to a good education!

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Yes, having a good website is the key to a good education!

Having all your information is the key to making a decision. You never looked at the curriculum, tuition, and the rotations on your school's website and made that part of your decision? Where did you get most of the information to make your informed decision?

That's not a retort, that's a serious question. If I'm doing something wrong please tell me. I could be screwing up my methods of making a decision by comparing schools based on their website information. The only other information to get would be anecdotal evidence and university rankings from other websites... and the age of the school I guess...

 

[BMBiology]

Having all your information is the key to making a decision. You never looked at the curriculum, tuition, and the rotations on your school's website and made that part of your decision? Where did you get most of the information to make your informed decision?

That is what I am saying. Hire some good web designer and marketing guy and you will make millions a year in tuition. It is that simple! Having a good website is the key to a successful business.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

That is what I am saying. Hire some good web designer and marketing guy and you will make millions a year in tuition. It is that simple! Having a good website is the key to a successful business.

You still didn't answer the question. What is the correlation between a good website and good education, and what exactly do you use to decide on schools if not for the website? I've seen some pretty fugly websites that still get full seats for schools. It's the information that counts.

 

[SHC1984]

To be fair it isn't likely that all pharmacists are fully capable of putting a school together as well, so how would it be different for a PhD? I know pharmacists now who talk about how you will be getting 5-10 offers right out of pharm school because there is a shortage. Go work in industry, it's easy because they are expanding with their drug reps and novel drugs. Go open an independent because that's where the big bucks are. The knowledge of different fields doesn't come with the degree or a license, you have to actively research and hear from people to know what's going on. Why do you need a PharmD to do that rather than MS or PhD? The dean said there were a lot of people who put some input into the field, many of which could either be pharmacists or employers of different industries for pharmacists as well. It would be nice to see how strong these ties are for the kinds of residences and IPPE and APPE are available for students there.

But c'mon, cut me a break. There isn't exactly a degree for making a university of a given profession, ya know? I don't see a lot of schools offering the PhD in healthcare school development or etc. At least the dean has a scientific background and isn't a liberal arts major trying to get into another market.

And really, it's unfair to assault a dean of a school who is coming onto a forum to talk about a school. It sets a bad precedent and it could cause issues for deans coming onto SDN in general (med school, dental, pharmacy, etc.). I am not going to think about going to this school until I see a website with details solidified, but some people can at least ask some questions to try and see what's going on. In fact, the informatics isn't a degree offered at many schools as a dual MS for pharmDs so people interested might want to look into it. As of right now the school seems very similar to other schools but I reserve my opinions until I see what the website has to offer. Maybe there are some nice rotations available that will allow people to really experience different fields, I don't know.

1) The Dean NEVER said what information all those people were using to come up with the conclusion that there needs to be another pharmacy school. He and those other people could be using information from 2000 for all we know. They could all be reading outdated information!!! There are tons of outdated information right now on the web about the shortage of pharmacists but we all know the shortage was over 2005.

2) No offense to anyone, but why on EARTH would anyone want to consider attending a newly built school when there are schools like UNC, UCSF, etc. out there??? If I was a pre-pharmacy student I would work my ass off and make sure I get into a top notch school. I wouldn't even consider anything that wasn't built over 100 years ago! That's why I still do not understand why anyone would be desperate enough to even look at any of these new schools that are just selling their PharmD degrees for 250K a piece. If I wasn't good enough to get into an established old school, then I would simply go into another field. Why on earth would anyone want to purchase a PharmD for 250K when the chances of landing a job is slim to none? That's my question!

 

[BMBiology]

...what exactly do you use to decide on schools if not for the website? I've seen some pretty fugly websites that still get full seats for schools. It's the information that counts.

I seriously have to think about this question before answering.

 

[owlegrad]

That is what I am saying. Hire some good web designer and marketing guy and you will make millions a year in tuition. It is that simple! Having a good website is the key to a successful business.

Way to be helpful.

Jabber, yes use school's websites for initial screening. Once you line up your top picks, use on site visits and discussions with current students to make your final choice. Use a critical eye, which I am sure you already know. Even students need to be discounted somewhat - read between the lines, ya know?

 

[R2pharmD2]

You still didn't answer the question. What is the correlation between a good website and good education, and what exactly do you use to decide on schools if not for the website? I've seen some pretty fugly websites that still get full seats for schools. It's the information that counts.

Bingo. As long as the info is accurate, who cares what it looks like? For anyone to suggest a correlation between website quality and education quality seems *****ic to me.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

1) The Dean NEVER said what information all those people were using to come up with the conclusion that there needs to be another pharmacy school. He and those other people could be using information for 2000 for all we know. They could all be reading outdated information!!! There are tons of outdated information right now on the web about the shortage of pharmacists but we all know the shortage was over 2005.

2) No offense to anyone, but why on EARTH would anyone want to consider attending a newly built school when there are schools like UNC, UCSF, etc. out there??? If I was a pre-pharmacy student I would work my ass off and make sure I get into a top notch school. I wouldn't even consider anything that wasn't built over 100 years ago! That's why I still do not understand why anyone would be desperate enough to even look at any of these new schools that are just selling their PharmD degrees for 250K a piece. If I wasn't good enough to get into an established old school, then I would simply go into another field. Why on earth would anyone want to purchase a PharmD for 250K when the chances of landing a job is slim to none? That's my question!

That's not my point of the discussion though. We can easily turn this into a diploma mill question if you want but we have a whole other thread for that. In fact, a lot of what you mentioned about going to other schools was mentioned there such as geographic barriers and personal matters so maybe this will work out.

My whole thing is that a school deserves a chance and that being a pharmacist doesn't automatically make you better and planning a school than a PhD. Information can be outdated, I agree. But other schools still cite the pharmacist shortage and use information such as rankings which aren't exactly scientifically rigorous either. So it's okay for other schools to do that but not this one, if that is in fact the case? I'm not saying the school should or shouldn't be, it's a free market so they can do whatever they want.

The school at least has an interesting concept of allowing most of the students to leave with an MS of some kind with less time allocated, and some of the degrees aren't offered everywhere such as the informatics degree. UNC doesn't offer a dual MS program, just an MS for people after the PharmD that is 2 years. I'd personally like to go to UNC but I'm interested to see how this school fares and what their ideas are. In an area with 6-7 other schools this one should be doing something different to set themselves apart and I'd like to see what that is. If this school has rotations and ways to get people into the field of their MS and help them make an informed decision then I don't see why this school is less deserving to be on the market than another school.

 

[SHC1984]

My whole thing is that a school deserves a chance and that being a pharmacist doesn't automatically make you better and planning a school than a PhD. Information can be outdated, I agree. But other schools still cite the pharmacist shortage and use information such as rankings which aren't exactly scientifically rigorous either. So it's okay for other schools to do that but not this one, if that is in fact the case? I'm not saying the school should or shouldn't be, it's a free market so they can do whatever they want.

.

I agree being a pharmacist doesn't make you any better at predicting the future of pharmacy. In fact, MOST information out there right now is outdated and if you are a person (doesn't matter what your degree is in) that is just surfing the internet and is looking up pharmacy professions, I can guarantee you 99% of the information will tell you that there is a shortage and that there are 30K sign on bonuses for pharmacist etc. All the information out there are outdated and most are between the years of 2000-2005 which is when there was a shortage.

I would say the most informed people are the people looking for pharmacist positions RIGHT NOW as we speak. Those are the people that will be having a hard time even getting interviews and they will know how hard it is to land a job and how much "shortage" we have. Most other people (again degree doesn't matter) will think there is a shortage b/c all the information out there on the web etc. are all outdated information. I haven't seen anyone coming up with any NEW (2010) information yet. So nothing you read on the web is accurate. I bet the dean and the people he worked with all use the useless information from 2000 to determine that this school needs to be opened when in fact it doesn't.

You are right about the free market though. I am not mad at the Dean or anyone in particular. In fact to be fair I would say ANYONE would open a school if they were provide the resources and were guarantee easy money in the long run! I mean even you and I would open a school if that means I can easily make some quick cash...I doubt anyone would care about the profession of pharmacy if it means we are guarantee to make big bucks by opening up a new school. LOL...so I am not mad at anyone. It is frustrating that the chances of landing a job upon graduation is going to be just as hard as winning the lotto now, but I am not mad at anyone personally for trying to get rich. I mean this is America!

 

[Jabberwocky12]

I'm starting to think about pharmacy schools like retail pharmacies and chains now. You can open all of the ones that you want but you have to do something that makes you different. Are you going to be CVS/Wags where you are known throughout the country? What about an independent that just opened up 3 months ago? that independent has to do more than fill scripts, they have to sell DME or compounding, diabetes education, etc.

New pharmacy schools have to have something done that makes them stand out. Like I mentioned before, this school is opening where there are 6-7 open already a short distance from the campus. If the school is as vanilla as some people think, I foresee people going there initially but then lowering in seats as the other schools get filled first. However, if this school does something very different, they stand a better chance of getting full. The FDU school overall probably has a decent name (heard of them here and there when I lived in NJ in middle school) and if they do something crazy and new (offering awesome APPEs and that provide credit for the MS program, which has 8 programs that other schools only have 1-2 of, etc.) then they will probably stand out from the crowd.

That is what I'm waiting for. I want to see if the hype the dean is giving is going to be worth it once the full program comes out. Adjusting for a paradigm shift means there has to be a paradigm shift in the program as well. Offering a few electives isn't going to cut it, there has to be something radically different.

And yeah, the people who know the most about the market are those hunting for a job right now, I fully agree. Despite the surplus and everything, I still want to be a pharmacist though. However, I will still go to bed every night hoping some kind of legislative change/medical breakthrough will happen within the next 5-6 years that will make pharmacists far more available in the market.

As for the 2010 data on the market, I feel it will be obsolete in 2011. That is what sucks about a fluctuating market...with more schools opening the 2010 data will be outdated in 2011 since more schools will be open by then, causing a shift in the equations used for growth rates.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Going with this discussion, FDU I have a question for you. This is strictly to answer some questions we have and I think it would paint a great image for the school.

What sources were used to determine if there was a financial gain for opening the pharmacy school? Since most data is several years old, did you get research information from your shareholders? Where did they obtain it from? I'm interested to see the sources solely because they could have very well provided their own studies which could be more up-to-date than what is widely available now.

What groups do you consult with that told you it would be beneficial to open the school, and what made them reach that decision? It would be excellent to be on the same page as you and by providing that information you would more than likely gain some more support for the school if the information is relatively new...

This information would include things like the state of the profession in terms of shortage-surplus, the growth rate of certain professions like administration and research and informatics, any new roles pharmacists will be obtaining in the future and the projected number needed to fill these roles, etc.

 

[FDUMedcoSoP]

Just wanted not to leave you hanging with regard to the questions you have. My original plan for the school of pharmacy (coincidentally, since it was brought up in this post) came while I was a researcher. We worked alongside several pharmacist researchers at developing a drug delivery system that was effective to deliver vancomycin to the site of an orthopedic/biomedical device. Pharmacists with expertise who were available to work in this area were a valuable commodity to advancing our research, and in helped us to procure the foundational data that led to several patents.

Several years later, we began to explore the potential for a school that prepared students for careers both in and beyond the traditional. We hired and retained three separate consultants to do a fiscal analysis, a viability study and extensive research into the needs within the state. We have visited AACP, the NJ Pharmacists Association, APhA, NJSHP, Garden State Pharmacy Owners, the heads of pharmacy at 21 hospitals, the pharmacy district managers from 11 retail chains (including supermarkets, retail, major market, etc.). Additionally, we spoke to human resources folks from every big pharmacy corporation with a presence in the state, have spoken at length with about 8 biotech corporations (including the key industry leaders), have had extensive conversations with representatives from both HINJ and BioNJ, two major networks of healthcare and biotech industry leaders, and have spoken with the state lobbyists for both the retail and health systems folks.

The "majors" or concentrations were developed in direct answer to what these folks said the most lucrative pharmacy candidates would attain...these include skills and expertise in the areas of informatics, communication, genomics, regulatory, clinical research and business. As I stated earlier, it was these people and not I who stated the difficulty of filling pharmacist jobs in these areas. Believe me when I tell you that we, as a University, would have no desire to enter into a venture that is non-sustainable and destined to die on the vine.

With all this said, I intend this to be my last post. I welcome each of you with legitimate questions to contact me personally. However, I do not have the luxury of hurling comments behind the guise of anonymity. I don't feel that much of the content put forth in these discussions is valuable or productive in attaching my name to.

I wish you all the best in your professional endeavors.

Best Regards,
M
[email protected]

 

[SpartanLaser]

I heard Medco has been working their pharmacists like they were in a sweatshop and fired a pharmacist because he wanted to make a call to a doctor to clarify a prescription. However, since making doctor calls cuts into scripts/hour, Medco ultimately fired him.

The poor pharmacist only asked for two things:
1. Allow pharmacist sufficient, adequate time per transaction to use Professional Judgment as needed. Do this without penalizing, criticizing or humiliating your professional pharmacist staff.
2. Support without bias, the unimpeded option to refer un-clear and/or scribbled prescriptions to "Call Doctor" system. Referrals are not a slow-down; nor are they a reduction in patient care. Pharmacists have a professional duty to get it right every time. Guessing the doctors handwriting is not an option.

Medco basically ignored him and fired him...


http://ihungerstrike.blogspot.com/2010/07/hunger-strike-against-medco.html

 

[owlegrad]

And SDN successfully runs off what could have been an invaluable resource to people who were interested in this school.

Win!

 

[Jabberwocky12]

And SDN successfully runs off what could have been an invaluable resource to people who were interested in this school.

Win!

INORITE! It is a shame because I am very interested to see how this school is going to be different than other schools since it admitted to try and adjust for future growth and changes.

Such a shame...

Not to mention future deans being hesitant on coming on the forums as well

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'm embarassed by the behavior of some of the posters in this thread. Since when is it acceptable to attack and ridicule someone, even if you disagree with them? What happened to polite, adult discourse?

 

[owlegrad]

I'm embarassed by the behavior of some of the posters in this thread. Since when is it acceptable to attack and ridicule someone, even if you disagree with them? What happened to polite, adult discourse?

Not sure it ever really existed, but it does make you wonder how some here would behave IRL. Would they behave the same if they were not anonymous? I guess that is what makes this site such a double edged sword - being able to say (relatively) anything you want means you take the good with the bad.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Not sure it ever really existed, but it does make you wonder how some here would behave IRL. Would they behave the same if they were not anonymous? I guess that is what makes this site such a double edged sword - being able to say (relatively) anything you want means you take the good with the bad.

While there are a few people on this site who I believe may be as rude and obnoxious IRL as they are online, I think the vast majority of people on here are simply big talkers who are shielded by the computer screen. Punks.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

While there are a few people on this site who I believe may be as rude and obnoxious IRL as they are online, I think the vast majority of people on here are simply big talkers who are shielded by the computer screen. Punks.

And thus, 4chan was born. At least there is some moderation here

Maybe there can be a subsection specifically for people who are representatives of institutions to talk to people? It can be moderated differently so things like this don't happen as often. The forum won't exactly be thundering but if someone is being disrespectful the post can be removed so there is a comfortable environment to talk shop?

 

[R2pharmD2]

Not sure it ever really existed, but it does make you wonder how some here would behave IRL. Would they behave the same if they were not anonymous? I guess that is what makes this site such a double edged sword - being able to say (relatively) anything you want means you take the good with the bad.

Oftentimes at school, I'm sitting somewhere like class, eating lunch, etc. and I overhear conversations through no will of my own. As a completely impartial observer, I've noticed that the vast majority of real-life conversations are complete and utter bull****. Yeah, there's a lot of stupid stuff said on here too, but compared to real life? I'll take the uncensored comments here (good and bad) rather than the overwhelming amount of real life BS any day of the week

 

[irishspring]

Told you so

 

[litetigre]

I came in late and the Dean has left. Otherwise, I would ask him why not develop program such as BS or PhD in Pharmacetics, Drug Design, Informatics. It seems that Doctor of Pharmacy attracts the pre-pharmers. If pharmacists are to expand to other areas beyond patient care, would it be appropriate to not to award professional but academic degree instead?

 

[Passion4Sci]

I came in late and the Dean has left. Otherwise, I would ask him why not develop program such as BS or PhD in Pharmacetics, Drug Design, Informatics. It seems that Doctor of Pharmacy attracts the pre-pharmers. If pharmacists are to expand to other areas beyond patient care, would it be appropriate to not to award professional but academic degree instead?

Folks that want to do that can already do a joint Ph.D / Pharm.D. I have no desire to do a dissertation or anything else required of an academic degree.

If "pharmacists expand outside of patient care" and everyone is suddenly required to get a Ph.D instead of a Pharm.D because of it, that'll be insane. I don't think that can happen.

 

[litetigre]

Folks that want to do that can already do a joint Ph.D / Pharm.D. I have no desire to do a dissertation or anything else required of an academic degree.

If "pharmacists expand outside of patient care" and everyone is suddenly required to get a Ph.D instead of a Pharm.D because of it, that'll be insane. I don't think that can happen.

That's the hipocrasy that new school faced trying to separate themself from others. You want to go for new directions, but Doctor of Pharmacy with least amount of time and effort sounds attractive to prepharmers.
Based on ACPE guidelines for accredition, to award doctor of pharmacy degree, there are certain courses that must meet the requirements. The only thing difference between schools are electives for the most part. As for medco school of pharmacy, students have 18 units of electives, about one semester, would that be enough to make a difference?
The point I am trying to make here is that in the end new school and old school are pretty much following the same education map. The main reason to open new school is so much demand from students. If the school is a business, it is a smart move. However, if it is for the advance of the profession, it is a lame excuse.

 

[KARM12]

http://blog.pharmexec.com/2011/10/11/medco-ceo-champions-robots-over-pharmacists/

This is what Medco thinks of pharmacists...

Do you really want to go to a school where the CEO of the partner company thinks you should be replaced by a robot?

 

[deleted390966]

I admit I did not do enough research about the profession before I decided to apply this year. I only looked at BLS website which said "jobs are expected to grow faster than average" and some other source like the AACP that said there's a "pharmacist shortage" So I naively thought I made the right choice and went ahead with my application. But,

Thanks so much to SDN for exposing the truth about the future of pharmacy!!!

Just google "pharmacy job outlook", I could find a lot of articles written by older pharmacists in the past 2-3 years that tell the truth about job prospects.

I talked with a PharmD student and an intern in real life, both discouraged me from going into pharmacy. The intern even said that within 4 years, residency will be REQUIRED to get a job, and residency spots are not easy to obtain.

The school may not be at fault but the Board of Pharmacy or whichever organization is overseeing the accreditation should seriously reconsider their policy regarding opening new schools. Profiting from poor, naive students (like myself) is unethical.

Right now I'm attempting to switch my career choice ONCE AGAIN. I'm putting my life on hold AGAIN. My mom will have to work another year to support me again
I am living on government aids and I have a family to take care of; I can't imagine being 150k in debt without having a job So even if I'm accepted to pharm school this cycle, I'll seriously have to think long and hard about whether to attend....

 

[R2pharmD2]

I admit I did not do enough research about the profession before I decided to apply this year. I only looked at BLS website which said "jobs are expected to grow faster than average" and some other source like the AACP that said there's a "pharmacist shortage" So I naively thought I made the right choice and went ahead with my application. But,

Thanks so much to SDN for exposing the truth about the future of pharmacy!!!

Just google "pharmacy job outlook", I could find a lot of articles written by older pharmacists in the past 2-3 years that tell the truth about job prospects.

I talked with a PharmD student and an intern in real life, both discouraged me from going into pharmacy. The intern even said that within 4 years, residency will be REQUIRED to get a job, and residency spots are not easy to obtain.

The school may not be at fault but the Board of Pharmacy or whichever organization is overseeing the accreditation should seriously reconsider their policy regarding opening new schools. Profiting from poor, naive students (like myself) is unethical.

Right now I'm attempting to switch my career choice ONCE AGAIN. I'm putting my life on hold AGAIN. My mom will have to work another year to support me again
I am living on government aids and I have a family to take care of; I can't imagine being 150k in debt without having a job So even if I'm accepted to pharm school this cycle, I'll seriously have to think long and hard about whether to attend....

As a PharmD student and an intern, I would take rumors propagated by students/interns with a grain of salt

Now, it sounds like it is becoming more difficult to find hospital positions without a residency (based strictly on anecdotal evidence) and I could definitely see things getting to the point where you don't have a realistic chance at a hospital job without a residency. For retail pharmacy? Overkill. Obviously that's just my opinion, but it's hard to imagine going from very few community pharmacy residencies to a blanket residency requirement for all pharmacists in 4 years.

My advice to you is this:
Anyone who tells you that the pharmacy gravy train has left the station is correct. You probably aren't going to be handed a 100K job upon graduation without some effort on your part, so if that was your reason for getting into pharmacy then you'd probably do well to reconsider. If being a pharmacist appeals to you for reasons other than the money and easy job prospects (not saying that shouldn't be a factor at all, but it shouldn't be the only factor either) then decide if it something you're willing to work at and, yes, expose yourself to some risk for.

That risk is still minimal compared to the vast majority of fields out there, by the way. How many PhDs, MBAs, JDs, etc. would happily trade their own prospects for that of a PharmD? To be fair, there are other fields that I would consider more secure (hard to imagine many unemployed MDs, for example, but that doesn't mean they don't face challenges all the same - there seems to be a growing concern about their residency situation) and if job security is your #1 concern, then give those a look.

 

[deleted390966]

My advice to you is this:
Anyone who tells you that the pharmacy gravy train has left the station is correct. You probably aren't going to be handed a 100K job upon graduation without some effort on your part, so if that was your reason for getting into pharmacy then you'd probably do well to reconsider. If being a pharmacist appeals to you for reasons other than the money and easy job prospects (not saying that shouldn't be a factor at all, but it shouldn't be the only factor either) then decide if it something you're willing to work at and, yes, expose yourself to some risk for.

I appreciate your input.
But please consider this: With the Obamacare and the recession, ONE of the reasons people still go into professions such as Med, Dent, Pharm... is because they think they will make enough money to pay back student loans. Otherwise, why would anyone spend 100k+ for a terrible prospect?
I'm willing to work for 80k... but not for 70k with 150k of loans to pay back... worse, unable to find a job.

I had exposed to myself to the Postbacc risk and I've gained the wisdom to realize who's in it for the money.

PS: While working as a pharm tech, I saw pharmacists floating, working long hours for 80k/year. How worse would it be 4-5 years later?

What do you think about these sources?

http://www.pharmacytimes.com/blogs/...1/Pharmacy-Job-Outlook-The-Tip-of-the-Iceberg

http://www.pharmacytimes.com/web-exclusives/Pharmacist-Oversupply-Outlook-for-Students

http://www.nuclearpharmacyjob.com/php/showBlog.php?blogid=144

http://studentdoctor.net/2011/10/20-questions-william-wills-pharmd/

 

[R2pharmD2]

I appreciate your input
But consider this: With the Obamacare and the recession, ONE of the reasons people still go into professions such as Med, Dent, Pharm... is because they think they will make enough money to pay back student loans. Otherwise, why would anyone spend 100k+ to be unemployed later?
I'm willing to work for 80k... but not for 70k with 150k of loans to pay back... worse, unable to find a job.
I had exposed to myself to the Postbacc risk and I've gained the wisdom to realize who's in it for the money.

Totally agree. If I didn't think there was an excellent chance to pay back my student loans as a pharmacist then I would have just made a career as a tech. There's definitely a risk vs. reward factor, and you have to decide what you can accept.

 

[deleted390966]

Yes, MD grads face challenges, too, but there REALLY is a shortage of physicians nationwide.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Yes, MD grads face challenges, too, but there REALLY is a shortage of physicians nationwide.

Job prospects for physicians are *clearly* superior to that of pharmacists, but what I was getting at is that there isn't a "sure thing". There are fields with lower risks and fields with higher risks but you aren't going to eliminate risk entirely. I feel like you're overestimating the risk associated with pharmacy, but again, that's just my opinion. Like I said, if job security is your #1 concern, you could do better than pharmacy. But you could also do substantially worse.

 

[Lubeckd]

Pharmacy times on the title pharmacy careers just published a article about fdu medco school of pharmacy and their dual degrees.

 

[Sakab]

The details, when taken in context, were that Rutgers has a highly competitive accept rate and (since built as a 0-6 program) takes very few transfer students, which means that students in-state who decide on pharmacy as a career after high school have very few options short of leaving the state.

He does have a point here. As an undergraduate in NJ, I don't have the opportunity to attend an in-state pharmacy school. Regardless, as someone had mentioned before, you can't really blame the school for contributing to the "oversaturation" of pharmacists. There are a handful of other significant factors to blame. The way I see it, as long as there is a high volume of (qualified) applicants, which there is, it is in the school's best interest to meet that demand. I'm not saying that pharmacy has a bright future, but I don't think it is right to chastise a school's decision in hopes of venting your frustration with the outlook of pharmacy.

But I'm just a freshman, so what do I know.

 

[deleted390966]

That risk is still minimal compared to the vast majority of fields out there, by the way. How many PhDs, MBAs, JDs, etc. would happily trade their own prospects for that of a PharmD? To be fair, there are other fields that I would consider more secure (hard to imagine many unemployed MDs, for example, but that doesn't mean they don't face challenges all the same - there seems to be a growing concern about their residency situation) and if job security is your #1 concern, then give those a look.

Let's not go down this road.

- PhDs pay $0 for their education & living expenses.

- MBAs don't spend 8+ years in school.

- JD - everybody know it's dead.

- "Unemployed MDs" in the USA The # of residency slots for MD grads alone (not counting DO slots) already exceeds the # of grads. Plenty of positions go unfilled each year and thus go to international grads. The only reason an MD can't match is (1) a serious 'black mark' on his record or (2) he only ranks Derm and Harvard slots. You can graduate last in your medical class and expect a career. That is not the case for Pharmacy as far as I know.

 

[Albo]

Let's not go down this road.

- PhDs pay $0 for their education & living expenses.

- MBAs don't spend 8+ years in school.

- JD - everybody know it's dead.

- "Unemployed MDs" in the USA The # of residency slots for MD grads alone (not counting DO slots) already exceeds the # of grads. Plenty of positions go unfilled each year and thus go to international grads. The only reason an MD can't match is (1) a serious 'black mark' on his record or (2) he only ranks Derm and Harvard slots. You can graduate last in your medical class and expect a career. That is not the case for Pharmacy as far as I know.

What happens if you graduate last in your class as a PharmD?

 

[R2pharmD2]

Let's not go down this road.

- PhDs pay $0 for their education & living expenses.

- MBAs don't spend 8+ years in school.

- JD - everybody know it's dead.

- "Unemployed MDs" in the USA The # of residency slots for MD grads alone (not counting DO slots) already exceeds the # of grads. Plenty of positions go unfilled each year and thus go to international grads. The only reason an MD can't match is (1) a serious 'black mark' on his record or (2) he only ranks Derm and Harvard slots. You can graduate last in your medical class and expect a career. That is not the case for Pharmacy as far as I know.

I think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. I'm not suggesting any of the other area I mentioned are undesirable, all I'm saying is that they face their own challenges, and none of them are clearly superior or inferior to a PharmD. Not having to pay for a PhD is clearly a major advantage, and less school for an MBA (although if you only complete 2 years of pre-reqs the amount of school is actually the same as a PharmD) is nice too, but you're almost certainly going to make less as a new grad and may never catch up to a PharmD in pay. There are plenty of other factors to consider as well, but it's a give-and-take.

I brought up MDs as a reference point because they have what I would consider the "gold standard" of job security and even that path isn't without risks. I suggest checking out the physician boards here if you think that isn't the case.

I think there's a tendency for people to take up a more extreme position than what they actually believe in an effort to debate their points and that seems to be the case here. If you're actually convinced that pharmacy is a terrible field to get into and the prospects elsewhere are so much better, why even consider it ("I'll seriously have to think long and hard about whether to attend....")?

 

[qcchemist]

Has anyone interviewed for this school yet or has an interview date?

 

[SpartanLaser]

David Snow (Ceo of medco) looks down on retail pharmacists....people should look elsewhere if they wish to attend pharm school.

 

[pharmdnj718]

I think it will be a great program. new programs don't mean they aren't going to do well. i wish FDU would've opened this book earlier, then i wouldn't have to go to an accredited pharmacy school far from home. i wish everyone who is applying for 2012 good luck

 

[phathead]

Medco has a pharmacy school?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[ditman99]

Has anyone interviewed for this school yet or has an interview date?

yes i have and it was much more then i expected....it made Liu Touro McPHS and UB look like childs play....i def considering this school after all....

 

[pharmesancheese]

Anyone been to the information session in feb? I'm going again in march.

I don't know why some are so against this new pharmacy school? All pharmacy schools have to start somewhere, right?

I actually find this to be an opportunity for all of us who've always wanted to go to pharmacy school but got rejected time and time again. A lot of students with high GPAs apply to top-notch schools not schools that have no ACPE stats like this one and this in turn gives types like us who fall a few points below what most schools consider a chance to apply and be considered.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Anyone been to the information session in feb? I'm going again in march.

I don't know why some are so against this new pharmacy school? All pharmacy schools have to start somewhere, right?

I actually find this to be an opportunity for all of us who've always wanted to go to pharmacy school but got rejected time and time again. A lot of students with high GPAs apply to top-notch schools not schools that have no ACPE stats like this one and this in turn gives types like us who fall a few points below what most schools consider a chance to apply and be considered.

I think thats the point. No offense, but these new schools are letting in students that can't hack it in the stats department, and diluting the profession.

 

[ditman99]

....

 

[homeslice]

ill deff second u on that statement...4 interviews + eating with the admissions staff...pretty hectic...with no little kids at all....i interviewed late January 2012 but still no answer from them...how about you

Did you just reply to yourself and then proceed to ask yourself another question? This is awesome.

 

[BadgerPharm]

Did you just reply to yourself and then proceed to ask yourself another question? This is awesome.

Lol. Yes, that certainly seems to be the case. Nothing like holding a conversation with yourself. I hope they are consciously aware that they responded to their own post.