Feeling tired and discouraged

[nontradmomma]

Hi everybody,
I'm having a rough time as of late. I've finished all the pre-reqs (a la carte) except for biochem, which isn't even required at most schools I'm looking at but I will probably eventually take it. I'm feeling burned out. This process has taken longer than anticipated. Mostly due to personal and financial reasons. I'm wondering what my next step should be. When should I apply? Should I work on a plan B? I'm filling up with self-doubt and fear.

I'm turning 40 this summer. I have a 5 year old. My son's father has been in prison since I was 9 months pregnant. I've been doing this all while struggling with depression resulting from his incarceration. I've delayed the process, reducing my courseload to one class per semester, due to maxed out undergrad financial aid and having to pay for school out of pocket now. Also because my sons father was denied Parole and I can't do med school and parent my son without his help and support. He finally gets released in 6 months in Sept. We plan to marry in Nov. We're talking about trying for our second and last child right away since we aren't getting any younger. I still need to take my MCAT. I have no idea what I'm going to do about letters of recommendation. I never went to office hours, etc. I still need to shadow doctors but my cousin thinks he can set something up for me because he works for some doctors. I'm getting overwhelmed here in the final stretch and freaking out about whether I'll be ready to apply in June 2017 or if I should wait until 2018. But like I said, I'm turning 40 this year and not getting any younger. My dream is to become a psychiatrist. I'm currently a Spanish medical interpreter. I have a BA in psychology.

Any advice or words of wisdom?

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[thatwouldbeanarchy]

First piece of advice, take a deep breath. It sounds like you have an incredible amount on your plate right now with school, work, and parenting on your own. On top of that, I can't imagine how painful it is to have someone you care about be incarcerated.

If you look around this thread, you'll find plenty of people who entered medical school in their 40's and beyond so I don't think your age is the issue. With that said, I think it's a very smart idea to put some serious thought into a plan B, whether it be RN, NP, PA, or something else entirely. There are lots of ways to be involved in healthcare and it's also perfectly fine to realize that there may be other careers that would satisfy you outside of healthcare. If it's mental health you're interested in, you can absolutely work in that field as an RN or an advanced practitioner.

I'm not saying that medical school is impossible for you. But it seems like there are still a few crucial pieces of your life that need to fall into place before you can even begin to prioritize being a medical student. It's worth asking yourself (and your son's father) how much you're willing to sacrifice in order to become a doctor. Are you willing to give up a significant amount of time with your child? Would you be willing sacrifice having another child? (I'm not a parent but the idea of having a baby right before starting med school sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.) Is your son's father willing and able to take on additional childcare responsibilities? Who will support your family financially when you are unable to work for 4 years? Again, only you know your situation and what you can handle. But I think even starting in 2018 might be stretch given all that you have going on right now.

 

[nontradmomma]

I will have to lean on my son's father/fiance a lot. If I get into med school, he will work and take on much of the childcare duties. I will take on financial aid as needed. We are used to being poor, so there's that. Having a baby in med school can't be easy but people do it. And at least I won't be doing it alone any more.

I feel like, if I can get myself back on track emotionally, maybe it can be done. But my emotional well-being has taken such a hit these past 5.5 years, that these last few obstacles (especially figuring out how to get my LOR's) seem overwhelming. I feel almost frozen in fear. What do I do next? The MCAT? Maybe a good MCAT score will boost my confidence and get me back on track. While a bad MCAT would serve as a much needed wake up call.

 

[eteshoe]

Hey there,

I would highly recommend you do not take the MCAT In your current state. While the exam does take a good chunk of preparation, these types of exams tend to tax your mental and psychological capabilities. So the way you are feeling now would most likely lead to a lower score than you need, which could have negative consequences (having to re-take, rejections, etc). For now I would hold off on doing anything until you are ready to tackle this process head on.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I will have to lean on my son's father/fiance a lot. If I get into med school, he will work and take on much of the childcare duties. I will take on financial aid as needed. We are used to being poor, so there's that. Having a baby in med school can't be easy but people do it. And at least I won't be doing it alone any more.

I feel like, if I can get myself back on track emotionally, maybe it can be done. But my emotional well-being has taken such a hit these past 5.5 years, that these last few obstacles (especially figuring out how to get my LOR's) seem overwhelming. I feel almost frozen in fear. What do I do next? The MCAT? Maybe a good MCAT score will boost my confidence and get me back on track. While a bad MCAT would serve as a much needed wake up call.

Yes, I would say that the MCAT is next. Although, you'll probably want to take Biochem in preparation. You'll know you're ready to take it when you're getting consistently solid scores on full-length practice tests. There are tons of good study plans on this site.

And yes, I would definitely prioritize your emotional health right now. You don't want to be burnt out when you start medical school! Ideally, you want to motivated, refreshed, and ready to jump in and give it your best. For what it's worth, I still recommend a plan B--I think it's a good idea for anyone considering medical school since it is so competitive and such an intense commitment.

 

[italiancowgirl]

It sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with doctors so I would highly recommend you go shadow physicians (both MD and DO), nurse practitioners (NP), physicians assistants (PA), and other medical professionals so you can figure out if this is truly something you want. My shadowing experiences kept me focused and helped me feel motivated because they gave me a clear moment when I knew what I wanted. You need to step back from the grind and figure out what you want.

There are people in medical programs with young kids and family challenges/complications. You will need a lot of support around you during school so try to create much more of a network than your fiance. It isn't wise to be so dependent on one person who will also be dealing with the demands of life, what if your fiancé is working and your son gets a mild fever? Always have back up people around if you can. There are mom's groups around sometimes, or even classmates who wish they could have kids now but don't have their ducks in a row. Also realize that the transition out of incarceration will be a challenge for you both, because any major shift in lifestyle and environment is a challenge. Expect that your fiance might need support and patience for a while so he can be successful.

And as the other posters said you need to address your mental health and get to a good place before you move forward. You are filled with potential, but only if you can see it in yourself. Now is not the time to take the mcat in my opinion. Flubbing up on it will not help you feel accomplished and it is a beast of a test. I do recommend biochem before and taking practice tests. There are lots of discussions on the mcat around SDN so go read other threads to learn more about what a good or poor mcat can do for your app. Don't take it until you know you are ready!

If you truly want this it is still possible. Don't rush, focus on one step at a time, and make sure to spend time exploring why you want this or something else through shadowing and clinical experience.

 

[nontradmomma]

I plan on applying broadly, even out of state. But there are two med schools in my home town. One's an MD, the other a DO. If I got accepted at one of those, that would be a dream come true because I have a lot of family here for additional support. But if I have to go out of state then we would just have to do the best we can with that.

My fiance is already receiving some counseling in prison and he's agreed to continue it upon release.

I certainly don't want to jump the gun on the MCAT. But shouldn't I at least begin studying for it? I was thinking of paying for the Kaplan online course and using that to study but not schedule the exam until I feel comfortable with it. I was also considering learning the biochemistry on my own with the content materials, an old text book, or something.

What about my LORs? I can't help but feel that is my biggest challenge right now.

 

[nontradmomma]

And I forgot to mention, although I haven't shadowed yet, I've been doing Spanish medical interpreting for 2 years and have seen a lot. But yeah, I know I've got to get some official shadowing done too.

 

[eteshoe]

You can certainly begin studying for the MCAT

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

What about my LORs? I can't help but feel that is my biggest challenge right now.

LORs can definitely be a challenge for us nontrads. Are there any science professors from the prereqs you've already taken who you'd feel comfortable asking? I know you said you weren't able to go to office hours much. Whoever you end up asking, it may be a good idea to provide them with your CV and some description/discussion of your goals in medicine. Maybe set up a time to meet with them outside of class to talk about your plans?

You might wanna start looking now at the LOR requirements for schools you might want to apply to. But having at least 2 LORs from science profs is pretty standard for most MD programs. (Many DO programs ask for letters from DOs that you have shadowed.) Letters from work supervisors may be helpful, too.

 

[Shjanzey]

And I forgot to mention, although I haven't shadowed yet, I've been doing Spanish medical interpreting for 2 years and have seen a lot. But yeah, I know I've got to get some official shadowing done too.

Don't rely on this. I did spanish medical interpreting for 5 years, and was actually criticized for not having enough "clinical" experience when I didn't have very many official shadowing hours. That was the main "reason" I was given for my first rejection. I shadowed all of 3 different physicians over the next year and somehow they agreed I had reached enlightenment for what the Medical Profession is. What a crock. Get your hours in.

 

[nontradmomma]

Sheesh. I was only planning on shadowing one or two docs (like, 1 DO/1 MD). How many docs total? How many hours each would you recommend?

Do you feel like the 5 yrs of interpreting was enough for general clinical experience requirements (not to replace shadowing but to replace some of the volunteering intended to provide clinical experience?).

 

[nontradmomma]

LORs can definitely be a challenge for us nontrads. Are there any science professors from the prereqs you've already taken who you'd feel comfortable asking? I know you said you weren't able to go to office hours much. Whoever you end up asking, it may be a good idea to provide them with your CV and some description/discussion of your goals in medicine. Maybe set up a time to meet with them outside of class to talk about your plans?

You might wanna start looking now at the LOR requirements for schools you might want to apply to. But having at least 2 LORs from science profs is pretty standard for most MD programs. (Many DO programs ask for letters from DOs that you have shadowed.) Letters from work supervisors may be helpful, too.

So, there's only one prof that will even remember me. I'm definitely going to ask her although it's been like 4 years, so I'm sure I'll have to refresh her memory on my details, but I'm pretty confident she'll remember my face, etc. But for the second prof, I'll probably have to ask someone who won't remember me at all. I can provide them with my cv, info on my future goals, remind them I got an A in their class etc, but if they don't actually remember me, is this going to be OK? Are they used to writing letters for students they don't actually remember? I keep hearing that a luke warm letter is so terrible. But I don't have a lot of choices.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

But for the second prof, I'll probably have to ask someone who won't remember me at all. I can provide them with my cv, info on my future goals, remind them I got an A in their class etc, but if they don't actually remember me, is this going to be OK? Are they used to writing letters for students they don't actually remember? I keep hearing that a luke warm letter is so terrible. But I don't have a lot of choices.

Ultimately, you gotta do what you gotta do. But asking a prof who doesn't remember you or who you took classes with several years ago is not ideal. What you really want is for them to be able to write something beyond just "nontradmomma got an A in my class." Adcoms will already see that on your transcript! You want them to be able to mention specific qualities you possess that will make you a successful med student and a good future doctor.

Since you haven't taken Biochem and should probably take it in preparation for the MCAT, it might be a better idea to try to ask whoever teaches that course. At least you'll be fresh in their mind and maybe you can set up a couple of meetings with them outside of class to talk about your med school plans. Professors are definitely used to writing LORs for students they don't know very well. It may not make up for weak academic letters but I would at least try to make sure that you get some really great letters from your current or past jobs!

 

[Shjanzey]

Sheesh. I was only planning on shadowing one or two docs (like, 1 DO/1 MD). How many docs total? How many hours each would you recommend?

Do you feel like the 5 yrs of interpreting was enough for general clinical experience requirements (not to replace shadowing but to replace some of the volunteering intended to provide clinical experience?).

If you can get one solid MD to follow over a period of time that is great. Otherwise I would say 3 or 4 different opportunities, which will add up to maybe 16 - 40 hours or so. Since you are already volunteering at a clinic, try with the MDs there. What kind of clinic is it?

 

[nontradmomma]

If you can get one solid MD to follow over a period of time that is great. Otherwise I would say 3 or 4 different opportunities, which will add up to maybe 16 - 40 hours or so. Since you are already volunteering at a clinic, try with the MDs there. What kind of clinic is it?

I'm an independent contractor through an agency. Their 2 biggest contracts are with the local children's hospital and a major hospital system in the area. We go all over the county and sometimes beyond, so it's not at the same place each time. But my cousin says he works with a bunch of doctors, so he's says he can set something up. Don't know yet if it'll end up being just one doctor or if I can hopefully score at least 2 doctors (or more) out of it. I'm uncomfortable asking one of the doctors through my work. I'm not sure if my boss would like it if she heard I asked one of the doctors something like that. Could it be construed as unprofessional (as an interpreter) to ask for what amounts to a personal favor? It's not as if I see the same doctors frequently enough to establish a rapport.

 

[Shjanzey]

I'm an independent contractor through an agency. Their 2 biggest contracts are with the local children's hospital and a major hospital system in the area. We go all over the county and sometimes beyond, so it's not at the same place each time. But my cousin says he works with a bunch of doctors, so he's says he can set something up. Don't know yet if it'll end up being just one doctor or if I can hopefully score at least 2 doctors (or more) out of it. I'm uncomfortable asking one of the doctors through my work. I'm not sure if my boss would like it if she heard I asked one of the doctors something like that. Could it be construed as unprofessional (as an interpreter) to ask for what amounts to a personal favor? It's not as if I see the same doctors frequently enough to establish a rapport.

No, this isn't a personal favor you are asking. This is part of the medical culture and it is expected to happen. Coming from outside the profession, I remember I also thought similarly to you, but after being in med school for a while I figured out that there is constant mentoring from the highest levels to the lowest. Second year medical students mentor first years. Residents mentor 3rd and 4th years. Attendings mentor everyone.

I don't think it is unprofessional for you to ask a Dr. if you have a good rapport with them, or even if you find what they are doing interesting. If they have the time they say yes.....many will say no. As long as it isn't interfering with your ability to do your interpreting job (which I don't see why it would) then it is not an issue. I was as shameless as possible to get those hours. Med school was more important to me than any personal hangups I have about asking for "favors" (which I really hate doing)

 

[nontradmomma]

No, this isn't a personal favor you are asking. This is part of the medical culture and it is expected to happen. Coming from outside the profession, I remember I also thought similarly to you, but after being in med school for a while I figured out that there is constant mentoring from the highest levels to the lowest. Second year medical students mentor first years. Residents mentor 3rd and 4th years. Attendings mentor everyone.

I don't think it is unprofessional for you to ask a Dr. if you have a good rapport with them, or even if you find what they are doing interesting. If they have the time they say yes.....many will say no. As long as it isn't interfering with your ability to do your interpreting job (which I don't see why it would) then it is not an issue. I was as shameless as possible to get those hours. Med school was more important to me than any personal hangups I have about asking for "favors" (which I really hate doing)

Ok. It'll definitely be out of my comfort zone. But I hear what you're saying. I'll give it a minute to see what my cousin can hook up. But, if I need more, I'll definitely suck it up and put myself out there and ask one of the doctors through my job. Thanks for the reality check. I really am coming from outside this profession, so it helps getting advice from people who know more about the culture than I.

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, I'm concerned about your support system, which is basically nonexistent. It's setting you up for failure even before you begin. You don't have to answer these questions on a public forum, but as things to think about:

1) Does your boyfriend have a job lined up? Does he have the needed skills and degree to get a decent job? He's now a convicted felon, and even if he's otherwise qualified, he may find it hard to get a job and otherwise integrate back into regular life. Fair or not, many employers do not want to hire ex-cons, even though they've already served their time and paid back their debt to society.

2) Is he going to be able to handle caring for a young child (and maybe an infant too)? Has he ever cared for children on his own before?

3) Adjusting to post-prison life is a major life change (both for you and for him). Getting married is a major life change. Going to medical school is a major life change. Losing the income from your current job and being in a situation where you always have too much month and not enough money is a major life stressor (and especially if he has difficulty securing employment). Having to move halfway across the country several times for your training is a major life stressor. Would adding a new infant into this already tenuous situation tip things over the edge where you and your family just wouldn't be able to balance it all?

The fact that you've gotten as far as you have with so little outside support is admirable and impressive. But this is the EASIEST it's going to be for you; it gets more difficult to balance your life and your training the further along in your training that you go.

You and your boyfriend don't have to make up for the last six years within the next six months. I would suggest that the two of you take things VERY SLOW. Don't rush to apply to medical school. Don't rush to get married two months after he gets out of prison. Don't rush to have another baby. Start by giving yourselves a chance to adjust to life together after prison for a while. Let him find a job and get established there. Let him get to know his child and build a relationship with him. Let the two of you have a chance to save up a financial cushion so that when some proverbial s*** hits the fan in the future (and it will, because that's life), you have some options to cope with it. And then you can start making some of these other changes gradually so that all of you (including your son) have a chance to adjust to them without being overwhelmed.

 

[Moko]

Could it be construed as unprofessional (as an interpreter) to ask for what amounts to a personal favor? It's not as if I see the same doctors frequently enough to establish a rapport.

Are there any doctors who you have translated for multiple times? Let them know your plans and ask if they know of anyone who's open for shadowing. Even if they themselves are busy, they can perhaps ask their coworkers to find you good shadowing opportunities. As long as it's not interfering with their work or yours, I doubt asking will be construed as unprofessional behavior.

With all of this said though, I completely agree with QoQ and other posters that you need to slow down and take care of yourself first and foremost. Medicine is a marathon and not a sprint, and medical schools will always be there when you are ready. While you no doubt have accomplished a lot on your own despite your circumstances, this upcoming year holds many major changes for you and your family. Take time to help your boyfriend re-adjust to life outside of prison and take time to allow your family to heal and recover from the separation. This investment in your family now will pay dividends later on in the form of emotional support and stability. Once your life has stabilized, then consider implementing the other plans you talked about such as marriage, a second child, and applying for medical school.

Like you mentioned, you're already feeling tired and your body is telling you that its burned out. Take time for yourself now so you have enough energy to not just get into medical school, but also to complete it and thrive in residency down the road. Things will not get any easier once school starts. In the grand scheme of things, applying and starting one year later is unlikely to make any difference. When you do apply, I hope that schools will reward you for your perseverance. Best of luck!

 

[nontradmomma]

I hear you. I do. But the marriage is happening. We are together. Have a child together. We will live together again and raise our child together. Putting it on paper won't change the realities of our lives together. But our son is almost 6 and he deserves to know his parents are married and committed. I worry about my fertility at 40. I worry about the age difference between my current son and a future child. I very much want my son to have a sibling. If I can't do it all... Then med school is the thing that will have to wait. As much as it pains me to say that. I worry about admins thinking I'm too old if I have to wait until 42, 44, 45? How old is too old? But, I don't want to give up. And if I have to put it off for a few years, I want to use this time in between wisely (both in my personal life and in my academic/professional life). I don't want my time to be wasted. This really is all so disheartening.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I worry about admins thinking I'm too old if I have to wait until 42, 44, 45?

I think @Goro has posted before about having a successful medical student in their 50's at his school. IMO, as long as you're prepared to do the work, you won't be too old. At some point, it's worth considering the financial piece as most medical students end up with a significant amount of debt. The older you get it becomes a question of how you'll work enough years to pay that debt back. But I don't think starting medical school in your 40s/50s is unreasonable.

Medical schools aren't going anywhere. Check this out: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/nontraditionals-ages.351126/

 

[Moko]

If I can't do it all... Then med school is the thing that will have to wait. As much as it pains me to say that. ... And if I have to put it off for a few years, I want to use this time in between wisely (both in my personal life and in my academic/professional life). I don't want my time to be wasted.

Your priorities and heart are in the right place -- I completely agree that you and your family should come first. With your work ethic, I think that you will be successful down the road.

As an aside, I understand that you want to become a MD or DO, but have you thought about becoming a physician's assistant or nurse? Both of these fields will allow you to work very closely with psychiatry patients, and can be equally as rewarding. In many hospitals, PAs have a significant amount of autonomy. On my psychiatry rotation, the nurses there were phenomenal and were often the ones by the bedside when the patients needed support the most. The plus side is that the length of training for PA/RN will be shorter, you will have significantly less debt and possibly more flexibility to spend time with your family. If time and finances are an issue, these may be reasonable alternatives depending on your career goals.

I think Goro has posted before about having a successful medical student in their 50's at his school. ... At some point, it's worth considering the financial piece as most medical students end up with a significant amount of debt. The older you get it becomes a question of how you'll work enough years to pay that debt back.

Agreed!

 

[Ad2b]

I'm 51. Allo only. Single parent, son's father is deceased; my first son is likewise, deceased. I'm an independent consultant which means financially things ebb and flow; sometimes creating havoc that is difficult (dogs eat before I do has been said more than once in my life). There are times when I wonder, "WTF am I doing" and then something happens that reminds me why.

It is a grueling path for the younger peers of ours. It is grueling for us because of other factors. For me, this path has taken far freaking longer than I ever anticipated when I started (I thought I'd be a fully licensed physician at 51 when I started this path, not just taking the MCAT).

YOU have time. You also have a ton on your plate and more coming when your fiancé is released. Congrats on getting this far. Congrats on raising your son in circumstances that are difficult.

 

[nontradmomma]

Ad2b, thank you. Love and light to you on your path as well. It has clearly not been an easy one for you either.

 

[Ad2b]

Ad2b, thank you. Love and light to you on your path as well. It has clearly not been an easy one for you either.

Thank you. Take it one step at a time. Do not let one thing be the do or done moment. At some point, life will show you what you should do. Baby steps. If the answer is not clear, don't push it. Let the answer come when it does.

Keep on, keeping on. Life does give us what we can handle. Apparently, I'm not Xena the Warrior ... you are

 

[nontradmomma]

You have all given me a lot of food for thought. I'm especially thinking hard about a plan B. I haven't yet given up, but I'm thinking about options I can keep on the back burner, just in case. I can't allow myself to get tunnel vision at the expense of my family. As my plan B starts to take form, I would love to share my ideas with you all again and hope you will take a moment to weigh in with some more thoughts and insights. I don't have anyone in my real life with the right kind of knowledge and experience to discuss with and advise me on this very unique journey we're on. And my fiance is also too emotionally involved to be objective. He can't hear these things without feeling guilty and responsible. Thanks to everyone for being honest, thoughtful and compassionate.

 

[QofQuimica]

I think what you're saying about putting your family first makes sense. Medical training (not just med school, but also residency afterward) can be hell on even the best-prepared family that doesn't have to deal with a lot of the financial and social stressors that your family currently has. There's good reason why docs have such a high divorce rate.

Again, you, your boyfriend, and your son have a big adjustment coming just from getting used to living together with the three of you as a family. All three of you deserve the chance to give your family the very best possible shot of success possible. No one is arguing that you should never go to medical school. But if you try to take on all of these major projects at the same time, you may not be able to succeed at any of them. Better to tackle them sequentially and give each the time and attention it deserves. Medical school isn't going anywhere. Take care of your home life first, and med school will still be waiting for you afterward if you still want it then.

 

[clausewitz2]

Psychiatric nurse practitioners are a thing and in relatively high demand, since they can prescribe and most NPs do not want to deal with mental health issues. It is a viable alternative path that would get you earning much faster.

 

[jl lin]

OP, I'm concerned about your support system, which is basically nonexistent. It's setting you up for failure even before you begin. You don't have to answer these questions on a public forum, but as things to think about:

1) Does your boyfriend have a job lined up? Does he have the needed skills and degree to get a decent job? He's now a convicted felon, and even if he's otherwise qualified, he may find it hard to get a job and otherwise integrate back into regular life. Fair or not, many employers do not want to hire ex-cons, even though they've already served their time and paid back their debt to society.

2) Is he going to be able to handle caring for a young child (and maybe an infant too)? Has he ever cared for children on his own before?

3) Adjusting to post-prison life is a major life change (both for you and for him). Getting married is a major life change. Going to medical school is a major life change. Losing the income from your current job and being in a situation where you always have too much month and not enough money is a major life stressor (and especially if he has difficulty securing employment). Having to move halfway across the country several times for your training is a major life stressor. Would adding a new infant into this already tenuous situation tip things over the edge where you and your family just wouldn't be able to balance it all?

The fact that you've gotten as far as you have with so little outside support is admirable and impressive. But this is the EASIEST it's going to be for you; it gets more difficult to balance your life and your training the further along in your training that you go.

You and your boyfriend don't have to make up for the last six years within the next six months. I would suggest that the two of you take things VERY SLOW. Don't rush to apply to medical school. Don't rush to get married two months after he gets out of prison. Don't rush to have another baby. Start by giving yourselves a chance to adjust to life together after prison for a while. Let him find a job and get established there. Let him get to know his child and build a relationship with him. Let the two of you have a chance to save up a financial cushion so that when some proverbial s*** hits the fan in the future (and it will, because that's life), you have some options to cope with it. And then you can start making some of these other changes gradually so that all of you (including your son) have a chance to adjust to them without being overwhelmed.

@nontradmomma
That's pretty stellar advice there. Listen to her.

 

[italiancowgirl]

I totally agree with the sentiment that one step at a time and you can get to your goal in medicine while still giving your family what it needs. Be patient with yourself, a couple more years to get your brain, heart, family and application in line is not that long in the grand scheme of life. I wish you success in your endeavors and I am always happy to support with feedback (when I make it onto sdn!)