fewest rad oncs in a major metro?

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jondunn

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I think Austin, Tx. for the population, there are very few rad oncs. the ones there seem to be running one linac factories and collecting alot of cash.

good opportunity for someone to come in and take over. Private Equity.


any other cities come to mind?

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I think Austin, Tx. for the population, there are very few rad oncs. the ones there seem to be running one linac factories and collecting alot of cash.

good opportunity for someone to come in and take over. Private Equity.


any other cities come to mind?
Someone sounds a little jelly? Maybe start trying to market/build your own practice more effectively? Hopefully things should pick up for you once you've gotten a little more seasoned out in practice and pass your boards

P.S. private equity has had their hands all over radiation since advent of IMRT, maybe back when you were in high school/undergrad?
 
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I’ve always thought it would be super interesting to have a national map of every rad onc practice/hospital and it’s catchment area. Unfortunately I don’t have the time for such projects.

I’m sure Austin has fewer rad oncs b/c there is no mega university system and the population trends younger and healthier then most places.
 
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I’ve always thought it would be super interesting to have a national map of every rad onc practice/hospital and it’s catchment area. Unfortunately I don’t have the time for such projects.

I’m sure Austin has fewer rad oncs b/c there is no mega university system and the population trends younger and healthier then most places.
Same reason Utah has a tight market
 
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I’ve always thought it would be super interesting to have a national map of every rad onc practice/hospital and it’s catchment area. Unfortunately I don’t have the time for such projects.

I’m sure Austin has fewer rad oncs b/c there is no mega university system and the population trends younger and healthier then most places.
Yes, some would argue such a map would be extremely helpful to gain insight regarding Radiation Oncology market forces and practice patterns. Theoretically, it could help guide conversations about perceived impacts of reimbursement cuts, omission/hypofrac, and a yearly surplus production of Radiation Oncologists after doubling residency spots.

In some specialties, a major professional society might advocate, facilitate, and provide funding for such a map.

Oh well, back to arguing about ADT in intermediate risk prostate.
 
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Good discussion. Texas isn’t CON and medicine is super competitive. I don’t buy the academic center argument for Austin. Phoenix never had one (I don’t think we can say Banner counts and having been there, patients per physician were not high enough for anyone to say we were the big bad gorilla). Does health have something to do with it? Scottsdale is as healthy as SLC, but you can throw a quarter without hitting a center in the valley. What else could it be?
 
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Good discussion. Texas isn’t CON and medicine is super competitive. I don’t buy the academic center argument for Austin. Phoenix never had one (I don’t think we can say Banner counts and having been there, patients per physician were not high enough for anyone to say we were the big bad gorilla). Does health have something to do with it? Scottsdale is as healthy as SLC, but you can throw a quarter without hitting a center in the valley. What else could it be?
Pure maldistribution IMHO. I read somewhere that the recommended RO distribution in the developed world is 4 per million. In America we are at 16 per million. But those 16 per million are not spread homogeneously and we are left with (rare) radiotherapy deserts.
 
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My understanding is there is significant consolidation of oncology specialists in the more desirable cities in arizona...Arizona Oncology and a few other groups come to mind. No reason to waste overhead on multiple centers when you control all the business.
 
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I think Austin, Tx. for the population, there are very few rad oncs. the ones there seem to be running one linac factories and collecting alot of cash.

good opportunity for someone to come in and take over. Private Equity.


any other cities come to mind?

Dell Medical School thought they could come in, simply exist, recruit "famous" docs and take patients from the rest of the city. Hasn't worked out well for them, as they are now losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year and are a ghost town. Any private equity group that tried to do the same would suffer the same fate, but they wouldn't have financial support from the taxpayer to do so. Baylor Scott + White does have a relatively robust program on the north side of town which has been moderately successful, however.

Austin has had many decades to grow and develop a very robust private practice infrastructure with very, very large private groups that operate very efficiently and control patient care in the city. Competition from academic medicine (up until Dell) was non-existent, and the two large hospital systems (three now) compete with each other for inpatient care but have not been able to make significant inroads into outpatient care, again because of how well-established pp is.

As a result, Austin has relatively few radoncs compared with other major metros, but that's because it's full of radoncs who are busy, not radoncs with 5-10 patients on treatment each supported by academic overbilling. Two clinics have closed in the last decade due to competitive pressure, and two radoncs have left the city in the last 4 years for the same reason. I have no doubt the radoncs in Austin would relish the opportunity to add a private-equity supported group to the list of casualties.
 
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Dell Medical School thought they could come in, simply exist, recruit "famous" docs and take patients from the rest of the city. Hasn't worked out well for them, as they are now losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year and are a ghost town. Any private equity group that tried to do the same would suffer the same fate, but they wouldn't have financial support from the taxpayer to do so. Baylor Scott + White does have a relatively robust program on the north side of town which has been moderately successful, however.

Austin has had many decades to grow and develop a very robust private practice infrastructure with very, very large private groups that operate very efficiently and control patient care in the city. Competition from academic medicine (up until Dell) was non-existent, and the two large hospital systems (three now) compete with each other for inpatient care but have not been able to make significant inroads into outpatient care, again because of how well-established pp is.

As a result, Austin has relatively few radoncs compared with other major metros, but that's because it's full of radoncs who are busy, not radoncs with 5-10 patients on treatment each supported by academic overbilling. Two clinics have closed in the last decade due to competitive pressure, and two radoncs have left the city in the last 4 years for the same reason. I have no doubt the radoncs in Austin would relish the opportunity to add a private-equity supported group to the list of casualties.

I would guess that Charlotte, Las Vegas, Northern Virginia and Phoenix markets operate the same way, ie market is dominated by large efficient private practice groups.
 
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I would guess that Charlotte, Las Vegas, Northern Virginia and Phoenix markets operate the same way, ie market is dominated by large efficient private practice groups.
Charlotte has a grand total of 1 group that’s part of the Levine Cancer Institute.

Northern Virginia has one medium sized group which is now tied to an “academic-ish” facility, the Arlington/Reston squad and maybe one independent.

Phoenix has many groups - AZCCC, Palo Verde, Ironwood, Gordie Grado, AZ Onc, Alliance (down to one shop), plus Mayo, CTCA, Banner, UAZ/Dignity.

They all did it in different ways, but not one has an academic center. So, that’s gotta be part of the puzzle.
 
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Charlotte has a grand total of 1 group that’s part of the Levine Cancer Institute.

Northern Virginia has one medium sized group which is now tied to an “academic-ish” facility, the Arlington/Reston squad and maybe one independent.

Phoenix has many groups - AZCCC, Palo Verde, Ironwood, Gordie Grado, AZ Onc, Alliance (down to one shop), plus Mayo, CTCA, Banner, UAZ/Dignity.

They all did it in different ways, but not one has an academic center. So, that’s gotta be part of the puzzle.

The one thing these areas all have in common is that they are in rapid growth areas over the past 50 years where there wasn't a major university health system presence.
 
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Dell Medical School thought they could come in, simply exist, recruit "famous" docs and take patients from the rest of the city. Hasn't worked out well for them, as they are now losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year and are a ghost town. Any private equity group that tried to do the same would suffer the same fate, but they wouldn't have financial support from the taxpayer to do so. Baylor Scott + White does have a relatively robust program on the north side of town which has been moderately successful, however.

Austin has had many decades to grow and develop a very robust private practice infrastructure with very, very large private groups that operate very efficiently and control patient care in the city. Competition from academic medicine (up until Dell) was non-existent, and the two large hospital systems (three now) compete with each other for inpatient care but have not been able to make significant inroads into outpatient care, again because of how well-established pp is.

As a result, Austin has relatively few radoncs compared with other major metros, but that's because it's full of radoncs who are busy, not radoncs with 5-10 patients on treatment each supported by academic overbilling. Two clinics have closed in the last decade due to competitive pressure, and two radoncs have left the city in the last 4 years for the same reason. I have no doubt the radoncs in Austin would relish the opportunity to add a private-equity supported group to the list of casualties.
Well said, having some experience in this market, I agree this is an accurate assessment. Good luck to new groups trying to penetrate this market, the number of local radoncs can be a deceptive statistic.
 
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Well said, having some experience in this market, I agree this is an accurate assessment. Good luck to new groups trying to penetrate this market, the number of local radoncs can be a deceptive statistic.
Deceptive. And informative. Insofar as letting anyone who's interested in the question "How many rad oncs are needed?" get an answer from a region where there aren't as many ROs as usual but patients are still getting adequate and non-delayed care. These regions are hewing to... elementary school economics!
 
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Albert Koong has his eyes on Austin. Looks at it like a fat pig before a hog roast

Don’t be fooled.
 
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If you ever see/hear a pig being slaughtered it will haunt you for life. But man that blood sausage afterwards is delicious. Sometimes a blood sacrifice is badly needed for the right meal. Boar on the floor, folks!
 
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Albert Koong has his eyes on Austin. Looks at it like a fat pig before a hog roast

Don’t be fooled.
With APM ready to take out some of his private practice competition, it won't be a fair fight. Amazing to think they actually have lost money for years with that kind of advantage.
 
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With APM ready to take out some of his private practice competition, it won't be a fair fight. Amazing to think they actually have lost money for years with that kind of advantage.

Looks like Austin area, ie zip codes 787xy, are not in those selected by apm. Lucky break.
 
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Albert Koong has his eyes on Austin. Looks at it like a fat pig before a hog roast

Don’t be fooled.

This is not new information to anyone in Central Texas
 
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