Finances prior to starting med school - anxiety and uncertainty

[994904]

Lately I've been seriously anxious about the looming debt that I'm going to accumulate from med school in the future. Compounded with the anxiety I feel while waiting for IIs, I am basically a walking ball of anxiety. I'm pretty good at saving money, but literally spent all my savings on grad school. Then I started accumulating savings again and spent a whole bunch of it on med school apps :/ Now I feel like I'm back to square one. I am currently in my second year at my research job, and I feel like I'm going in circles with my projects. My PIs give little to no guidance and I am getting extremely frustrated. Most of what I've learned in lab I've had to learn by myself. I come into work extremely anxious that I will get in trouble because I am not making enough progress. This leaves me thinking, "when is the earliest and latest I can quit this job and still have enough money saved before school?" Also: "should I look for a temporary job that will pay me more than I am making now so I can save?" Also: "will adcoms look on me negatively for quitting my research job in the middle of the application cycle?"

Truth is, I know rarely can one ever save "enough" for med school... I do not have a high salary, and I at least want to have enough saved so I can pay my living expenses for a few months prior to applying for/receiving financial aid. If financial aid isn't disbursed until school starts, how do people do it? How are people able to take a few months off to travel and what not prior to starting school? How are people able pay for the small fortune that is med school apps and then bounce back to deal with all the costs associated with going to med school (deposits, moving, supplies, etc)? Like should I do focus groups, do surveys, donate egg/sperm, win the lottery, become a surrogate??? This process is already so stressful, and financial stress is just the cherry on top...

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[deleted804295]

Lately I've been seriously anxious about the looming debt that I'm going to accumulate from med school in the future. Compounded with the anxiety I feel while waiting for IIs, I am basically a walking ball of anxiety. I'm pretty good at saving money, but literally spent all my savings on grad school. Then I started accumulating savings again and spent a whole bunch of it on med school apps :/ Now I feel like I'm back to square one. I am currently in my second year at my research job, and I feel like I'm going in circles with my projects. My PIs give little to no guidance and I am getting extremely frustrated. Most of what I've learned in lab I've had to learn by myself. I come into work extremely anxious that I will get in trouble because I am not making enough progress. This leaves me thinking, "when is the earliest and latest I can quit this job and still have enough money saved before school?" Also: "should I look for a temporary job that will pay me more than I am making now so I can save?" Also: "will adcoms look on me negatively for quitting my research job in the middle of the application cycle?"

Truth is, I know rarely can one ever save "enough" for med school... I do not have a high salary, and I at least want to have enough saved so I can pay my living expenses for a few months prior to applying for/receiving financial aid. If financial aid isn't disbursed until school starts, how do people do it? How are people able to take a few months off to travel and what not prior to starting school? How are people able pay for the small fortune that is med school apps and then bounce back to deal with all the costs associated with going to med school (deposits, moving, supplies, etc)? Like should I do focus groups, do surveys, donate egg/sperm, win the lottery, become a surrogate??? This process is already so stressful, and financial stress is just the cherry on top...

To be quite honest, most applicants are not financially independent when applying to medical schools and so a lot of individuals are being supported by parents. This includes traveling fees before matriculation and other luxuries.

It's an unfair process but it's really commendable that you're standing on your own two feet financially.

 

[crepuscular.ray]

I'm in a similar situation in terms of finances and research frustration. If your research really isn't working for you, and you don't need more experience for the future, it would be okay to quit. I don't think it matters what kind of job you have between now and med school, besides that you find it tolerable and you're making a livible wage. What helps me is finding things outside of work and med school to relax. I can't travel or go on a vacation, but I can brighten up my day by baking muffins or playing with a friend's puppy (I know it might seem trivial but it's important to have fun)

 

[ciestar]

You’d be stunned how few applicants have to actually worry about this...

It sucks, i know. It is okay to quit a job causing you that much strife.

 

[994904]

You’d be stunned how few applicants have to actually worry about this...

It sucks, i know. It is okay to quit a job causing you that much strife.

To be quite honest, most applicants are not financially independent when applying to medical schools and so a lot of individuals are being supported by parents. This includes traveling fees before matriculation and other luxuries.

It's an unfair process but it's really commendable that you're standing on your own two feet financially.

Thank you for your input. I honestly never thought it was THAT uncommon to be financially independent through this process, since I’ve seen so many fellow non trads on SDN...

 

[994904]

I'm in a similar situation in terms of finances and research frustration. If your research really isn't working for you, and you don't need more experience for the future, it would be okay to quit. I don't think it matters what kind of job you have between now and med school, besides that you find it tolerable and you're making a livible wage. What helps me is finding things outside of work and med school to relax. I can't travel or go on a vacation, but I can brighten up my day by baking muffins or playing with a friend's puppy (I know it might seem trivial but it's important to have fun)

I guess I kinda feel invested/obligated to stay, even though I am frustrated. I feel worried that interviewers would ask why I quit my job, given that I do want to continue in research. I enjoy research, just not where I’m at. Not entirely sure what I’m going to do yet, but if I could find a higher paying, temporary gig, that might be the move. Great advice, Thank you

 

[NickNaylor]

You are going to take on a significant amount of debt no matter what unless you receive scholarships. While it would be nice to have a ton of money saved away to just pay cash for expenses, that is very likely to not be achievable unless you have a ton of money saved up. Instead, I think the better approach is to limit expenses during medical school to limit how much debt you're actually taking on. Be smart about the school you choose to go to and take finances into account if you have options.

The reality is that you will have no problem paying off education debt, even if you go into a low-paying field. The question is how much and for how long you're going to be paying off that debt. To give an example, I'm currently in my first year as faculty. I graduated medical school and undergrad with a total of about $140k in education debt. I work 6 days a week and gross about $300k in an academic position. My wife brings home about $60-70k from her job, but she is going to stop working in the near future as we're expecting our first kid. I expect that I will have that debt paid off - plus my wife's comparatively small amount of debt - in the next 18-24 months without significant difficulty. My wife and I are still continuing our lifestyle from before I started making more money, but we live plenty comfortably.

A key thing that I would recommend is making payments after medical school to reduce how much interest you accrue once you graduate. That was key for me - it prevented about $15k of interest from being added to my overall loan balance. I made absolutely zero progress on the principal - I would get annual statements stating that I paid off literally less than $5 of principal over the year despite paying hundreds of dollars a month in payments - but simply limiting the debt from growing was a victory, IMO. I did a LOT of moonlighting in residency to make extra money - probably too much - which also allowed me to make some progress on loans. These things are not things that you have to do, but in my case they ended up being smart financial moves.

You're right to be anxious about the money because it's a lot, and it will affect your life for a long period of time. But I think as long as you're smart about your expenses, you don't approach student loans as a limitless fount of money (and make financial decisions accordingly), and minimize how much debt you're taking on as much as possible, you'll be fine.

 

[RennKin]

I think every physician here will tell you that no matter how much debt you accumulate, no matter what you're going to be able to pay it off. Whether tuition is 60k or 30k. You'll pay it off and still be able to live better than the majority of the U.S.

Though I will say from my observations and from what I've heard, that getting through residency is the worst financial period ever for a physician.

 

[Cornfed101]

There is nothing wrong with trying to save some money now. If you have consumer debt (especially credit cards) try to eliminate or minimize those. We are currently drowning in credit cards, and I know I definitely won't be able to afford $500 in minimum credit card payments when I start school so we are working a lot of extra hours to try and bring that down!

Get a higher-paying job. If someone asks you why you quit your research job you can just say that you needed to save money. That's an excellent answer!

 

[Detailsmatter]

Hey so im broke and my family's broke. Its crazy how well off people going to medical school are so I totally understand your worries/frustrations. I have to help my parents with bills and im an MS1. If you have credit card debt absolutely pay that off before starting school. I would focus on doing extra work during the evening and weekends so you can save up money. Moving expenses are super high no matter where you go to school. I don't think your focus should be on tuition and COL expenses because you're gonna have those either way (obvi try to go to the more affordable school/get that scholarship money if you can). Focus more on saving up for deposits, furniture, etc. if you live with roommates thats great because you split the deposit which is often first month, last month, and security deposit. its always advisable to move in a month before classes so you have time to get all your shxt together like utilities etc. all of that costs money. I think a good amount to have saved up would be 3-5k so you don't have any money worries in the beginning until your first loan disbursement comes in. I know its a lot but if you can do it would be really worth it. if you can't get that kind of money together you'll have to use credit cards. Ppl love to bash on credit cards but if you're as broke as I am its the last resort unfortunately.

 

[little_giant]

Similar situation. I am "ending" my research position and looking for a much higher paying job for the next few months until I hopefully start med school next summer. I am fortunate to be able to move back to my parents home to not have to pay for rent (saves about $7000-10000 in total). I doubt med schools will care about it since it's a legitimate reason. Trying to save money to buy a used car too sigh

 

[Cornfed101]

I am fortunate to be able to move back to my parents home to not have to pay for rent (saves about $7000-10000 in total).

My wife and I (and our two kids) thought, "oh let's move in with our parents to save a boatload of money!" Our parents' response "um no. We did that when we were young and married with our parents and we didn't like it"

...ok

 

[Chromium Surfer]

You are going to take on a significant amount of debt no matter what unless you receive scholarships. While it would be nice to have a ton of money saved away to just pay cash for expenses, that is very likely to not be achievable unless you have a ton of money saved up. Instead, I think the better approach is to limit expenses during medical school to limit how much debt you're actually taking on. Be smart about the school you choose to go to and take finances into account if you have options.

The reality is that you will have no problem paying off education debt, even if you go into a low-paying field. The question is how much and for how long you're going to be paying off that debt. To give an example, I'm currently in my first year as faculty. I graduated medical school and undergrad with a total of about $140k in education debt. I work 6 days a week and gross about $300k in an academic position. My wife brings home about $60-70k from her job, but she is going to stop working in the near future as we're expecting our first kid. I expect that I will have that debt paid off - plus my wife's comparatively small amount of debt - in the next 18-24 months without significant difficulty. My wife and I are still continuing our lifestyle from before I started making more money, but we live plenty comfortably.

A key thing that I would recommend is making payments after medical school to reduce how much interest you accrue once you graduate. That was key for me - it prevented about $15k of interest from being added to my overall loan balance. I made absolutely zero progress on the principal - I would get annual statements stating that I paid off literally less than $5 of principal over the year despite paying hundreds of dollars a month in payments - but simply limiting the debt from growing was a victory, IMO. I did a LOT of moonlighting in residency to make extra money - probably too much - which also allowed me to make some progress on loans. These things are not things that you have to do, but in my case they ended up being smart financial moves.

You're right to be anxious about the money because it's a lot, and it will affect your life for a long period of time. But I think as long as you're smart about your expenses, you don't approach student loans as a limitless fount of money (and make financial decisions accordingly), and minimize how much debt you're taking on as much as possible, you'll be fine.

If you don't mind me asking, are you working in an academic position as a sub specialist? My goal is to work in academic medicine while serving undeserved communities and doing research related to combating health disparities. I am interested in internal medicine and primary care, and a lot of doctors I have talked to have joked about how I am going to be "poor". Beyond that I have heard that generally working in academics pays less than private practice or community work. Thankfully I do not have any debt from undergrad and am pretty frugal. However I was surprised to see that you make a reasonable amount while also working in academics! Would your opinion change for someone with my career aspirations?

 

[tessellations]

I worry about finances constantly. I am very lucky to not currently be in debt, but that is only because I live at home with one of set of parents and don't pay rent. I have other bills to pay and have recently started paying a family plan phone bill that used to be the responsibility of a now broke parent (not who I live with). Applying just absolutely wiped out most of my savings, and I am trying to recuperate but it's hard when you have a research job that pays so little. I'm also trying to save some money to visit my SO who is doing a fulbright abroad and that just really adds to the stress of it all. I can not wait to be able to defer on my student loans during med school. I know they will accrue interest but it is what it is.

Hoping I can at least save a few thousand for moving expenses. My family isn't rich, but I know if worse comes to worse, my mom may be able to minimally help me out (maybe with a deposit or a piece of furniture), but I really don't want to have to ask as an adult.

 

[NickNaylor]

If you don't mind me asking, are you working in an academic position as a sub specialist? My goal is to work in academic medicine while serving undeserved communities and doing research related to combating health disparities. I am interested in internal medicine and primary care, and a lot of doctors I have talked to have joked about how I am going to be "poor". Beyond that I have heard that generally working in academics pays less than private practice or community work. Thankfully I do not have any debt from undergrad and am pretty frugal. However I was surprised to see that you make a reasonable amount while also working in academics! Would your opinion change for someone with my career aspirations?

No, I am a general psychiatrist working in the inpatient setting. My gross salary is $220k but I make the extra by moonlighting in our ED a minimum of 12 hours a week and more if there are opportunities to do so.

You will not be "poor" no matter what as a physician. People that tell you that are being hyperbolic. What is very likely true is that you won't make as much working in an underserved setting as you could elsewhere. But we're still talking about making six figures. Even in the worst paying academic settings a psychiatrist will bring in at least $150k - and a salary that low is extremely anomalous.

If you're willing to work hard, you will have no problem making money as a physician.

 

[NITRAS]

I think every physician here will tell you that no matter how much debt you accumulate, no matter what you're going to be able to pay it off. Whether tuition is 60k or 30k. You'll pay it off and still be able to live better than the majority of the U.S.

Though I will say from my observations and from what I've heard, that getting through residency is the worst financial period ever for a physician.

Not true. If you pass med school, and if you pass your licensure exams, and if you can get a medical license, and if salaries for physicians stay stable, then going deeply in debt works. But if you make $150k/yr and you went $400k in debt you are really going to struggle. If you go $250k in debt and can’t get a medical license, your all kinds of screwed.

 

[ciestar]

I think every physician here will tell you that no matter how much debt you accumulate, no matter what you're going to be able to pay it off. Whether tuition is 60k or 30k. You'll pay it off and still be able to live better than the majority of the U.S.

Though I will say from my observations and from what I've heard, that getting through residency is the worst financial period ever for a physician.

My financial planner will tell you the same thing. No matter how much debt you get yourself into (assuming you get into residency) there are ways to pay it off and not live like you’re in poverty.

 

[Dr panda]

My financial planner will tell you the same thing. No matter how much debt you get yourself into (assuming you get into residency) there are ways to pay it off and not live like you’re in poverty.

I just realized that your nick should be read as sister

 

[994904]

There is nothing wrong with trying to save some money now. If you have consumer debt (especially credit cards) try to eliminate or minimize those. We are currently drowning in credit cards, and I know I definitely won't be able to afford $500 in minimum credit card payments when I start school so we are working a lot of extra hours to try and bring that down!

Get a higher-paying job. If someone asks you why you quit your research job you can just say that you needed to save money. That's an excellent answer!

Great advice, thank you. I’m currently doing alright at paying off my credit cards but who knows what that’ll be like come med school time. Also wonder what that’ll look like for my credit score lol...

 

[994904]

Hey so im broke and my family's broke. Its crazy how well off people going to medical school are so I totally understand your worries/frustrations. I have to help my parents with bills and im an MS1. If you have credit card debt absolutely pay that off before starting school. I would focus on doing extra work during the evening and weekends so you can save up money. Moving expenses are super high no matter where you go to school. I don't think your focus should be on tuition and COL expenses because you're gonna have those either way (obvi try to go to the more affordable school/get that scholarship money if you can). Focus more on saving up for deposits, furniture, etc. if you live with roommates thats great because you split the deposit which is often first month, last month, and security deposit. its always advisable to move in a month before classes so you have time to get all your shxt together like utilities etc. all of that costs money. I think a good amount to have saved up would be 3-5k so you don't have any money worries in the beginning until your first loan disbursement comes in. I know its a lot but if you can do it would be really worth it. if you can't get that kind of money together you'll have to use credit cards. Ppl love to bash on credit cards but if you're as broke as I am its the last resort unfortunately.

Super admirable of you to help your parents while you yourself are in school and dealing with many expenses! Honestly I was really super focused on the tuition and was vaguely thinking about moving expenses but also forgot the whole deposits and furniture thing lol... totally agree with you too, cause it seems like all my friends who are in med school are well off and didn’t need to work in college??

 

[Smolpuppo21]

I stand with you, friend! I'm a current applicant, and I'm terrified about saving up for medical school. Currently, I'm a Senior in undergrad, so I'm unable to work a job completely full-time as I do over the summer. However, I try and average about 50-55 hours/week working jobs to pay for bills at home, pay for my own bills, and pay off credit card debt. It's all starting to add up, and I'm unsure of how I'm going to pay off this $22k of CC debt that I owe. It feels like I'm crumbling under pressure, but I just want you to know that you're not alone. You'd be, however, surprised at how many applicants have the luxuries of their lives paid for by their parents. Not to shame them, because I'd dream of that kind of life, but we're definitely the minority.

I'd like to know how financial aid works for apartments because god knows I won't be able to afford the deposits for an apartment in this new state I'm moving to in July.

 

[994904]

You are going to take on a significant amount of debt no matter what unless you receive scholarships. While it would be nice to have a ton of money saved away to just pay cash for expenses, that is very likely to not be achievable unless you have a ton of money saved up. Instead, I think the better approach is to limit expenses during medical school to limit how much debt you're actually taking on. Be smart about the school you choose to go to and take finances into account if you have options.

The reality is that you will have no problem paying off education debt, even if you go into a low-paying field. The question is how much and for how long you're going to be paying off that debt. To give an example, I'm currently in my first year as faculty. I graduated medical school and undergrad with a total of about $140k in education debt. I work 6 days a week and gross about $300k in an academic position. My wife brings home about $60-70k from her job, but she is going to stop working in the near future as we're expecting our first kid. I expect that I will have that debt paid off - plus my wife's comparatively small amount of debt - in the next 18-24 months without significant difficulty. My wife and I are still continuing our lifestyle from before I started making more money, but we live plenty comfortably.

A key thing that I would recommend is making payments after medical school to reduce how much interest you accrue once you graduate. That was key for me - it prevented about $15k of interest from being added to my overall loan balance. I made absolutely zero progress on the principal - I would get annual statements stating that I paid off literally less than $5 of principal over the year despite paying hundreds of dollars a month in payments - but simply limiting the debt from growing was a victory, IMO. I did a LOT of moonlighting in residency to make extra money - probably too much - which also allowed me to make some progress on loans. These things are not things that you have to do, but in my case they ended up being smart financial moves.

You're right to be anxious about the money because it's a lot, and it will affect your life for a long period of time. But I think as long as you're smart about your expenses, you don't approach student loans as a limitless fount of money (and make financial decisions accordingly), and minimize how much debt you're taking on as much as possible, you'll be fine.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a lengthy post! Just curious, if loan repayment starts in residency when making $50k, I would assume monthly minimum payments would be like $150? Then when salary increases to $150k+, how much would them minimum monthly payments be?
Some schools I am looking at are so expensive. Like it would prob put me in $400k debt expensive. Fingers crossed for IIs from schools with “cheaper” cost of attendance

 

[994904]

I worry about finances constantly. I am very lucky to not currently be in debt, but that is only because I live at home with one of set of parents and don't pay rent. I have other bills to pay and have recently started paying a family plan phone bill that used to be the responsibility of a now broke parent (not who I live with). Applying just absolutely wiped out most of my savings, and I am trying to recuperate but it's hard when you have a research job that pays so little. I'm also trying to save some money to visit my SO who is doing a fulbright abroad and that just really adds to the stress of it all. I can not wait to be able to defer on my student loans during med school. I know they will accrue interest but it is what it is.

Hoping I can at least save a few thousand for moving expenses. My family isn't rich, but I know if worse comes to worse, my mom may be able to minimally help me out (maybe with a deposit or a piece of furniture), but I really don't want to have to ask as an adult.

I agree with you. I think I got my money saving tendencies from my parents, so if I had to ask them, they would probably help me out. But if you’ve been financially independent for years, you’re less inclined to want to ask for help from adults (at least I am). Also wondering about the having to do long distance with my SO if I go to school out of state. Lol the costs just keep piling up. Can medical education be free already?

 

[NickNaylor]

Thanks for taking the time to write such a lengthy post! Just curious, if loan repayment starts in residency when making $50k, I would assume monthly minimum payments would be like $150? Then when salary increases to $150k+, how much would them minimum monthly payments be?
Some schools I am looking at are so expensive. Like it would prob put me in $400k debt expensive. Fingers crossed for IIs from schools with “cheaper” cost of attendance

In residency, my payments were about $300/mo. When I was moonlighting regularly (which increased my salary by nearly 200%), my payments jumped to about $1500/mo. I haven't had to recertify my income since starting my faculty position yet, so I don't know what my monthly payments will be but I expect that they will essentially be equivalent to a standard 10-year repayment.

Assuming you sign-up for income-based repayment, your monthly payment is capped at 10-20% of your "discretionary" income (I forget the specific number). You can read about the different repayment plans and how that number is calculated at the Department of Education website.

Many people refinance their loans once they start making attending money because the interest rates on federal loans are a scam, and you can typically get a much lower interest rate from a private lender. The down side of refinancing is that you will often lose some of the "advantages" of federal loans (e.g., loan forgiveness, income-based repayment, etc.). Dependng on the specific lender and your credit history, you will likely pay more per month but less overall due to the lower interest rate, thus why many people end up refinancing. Meeting with a financial adviser or doing some research on your own when you get to that point can guide you on what would be best for your specific situation. Again, though, the question in either case is not whether you will be able to pay off your loans. Assuming you're at least somewhat capable of smart personal finance planning, paying back loans will be a significant part of your financial life, but they will not ruin you.

 

[deleted859689]

Lately I've been seriously anxious about the looming debt that I'm going to accumulate from med school in the future. Compounded with the anxiety I feel while waiting for IIs, I am basically a walking ball of anxiety. I'm pretty good at saving money, but literally spent all my savings on grad school. Then I started accumulating savings again and spent a whole bunch of it on med school apps :/ Now I feel like I'm back to square one. I am currently in my second year at my research job, and I feel like I'm going in circles with my projects. My PIs give little to no guidance and I am getting extremely frustrated. Most of what I've learned in lab I've had to learn by myself. I come into work extremely anxious that I will get in trouble because I am not making enough progress. This leaves me thinking, "when is the earliest and latest I can quit this job and still have enough money saved before school?" Also: "should I look for a temporary job that will pay me more than I am making now so I can save?" Also: "will adcoms look on me negatively for quitting my research job in the middle of the application cycle?"

Truth is, I know rarely can one ever save "enough" for med school... I do not have a high salary, and I at least want to have enough saved so I can pay my living expenses for a few months prior to applying for/receiving financial aid. If financial aid isn't disbursed until school starts, how do people do it? How are people able to take a few months off to travel and what not prior to starting school? How are people able pay for the small fortune that is med school apps and then bounce back to deal with all the costs associated with going to med school (deposits, moving, supplies, etc)? Like should I do focus groups, do surveys, donate egg/sperm, win the lottery, become a surrogate??? This process is already so stressful, and financial stress is just the cherry on top...

Looks like you received a lot of input about finances - about your research job, are your colleagues helpful at all? When I was in grad school my PI was never in the lab. I learned with my fellow grad students from our post-docs and senior grad students. Our lab was focused on having a collaborative environment and helping each other on projects.

 

[CatDad26]

21 years old, already in 220k of debt from undergrad... so I feel ya 100%. this process wasn't made for us and it sucks and is not fair. throughout college I've worked 2-3 jobs while taking classes full-time to afford cost of living and save up as much as I could. this whole process has been on me financially and I agree its totally not fair. to make it worse ive even mentioned these things in interviews as well but because they only care to look at parent income they refer to me as not disadvantaged and dont really care what I have to say in terms of my personal financially struggles. (so p.s. to any adcoms on here, parent income DOES NOT EQUAL student income, not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to have financial support from their parents still) and here I sit without an A yet stressing about where I can work and how ill make payments on my loans next year if I dont get any luck this cycle. but keep your head up. we've been through enough obstacles to get here and struggled already, whatever financial problems we run into in the future I am confident we can work through it. just keep ur eye on the prize and dont let too much get to your head right now

 

[994904]

Looks like you received a lot of input about finances - about your research job, are your colleagues helpful at all? When I was in grad school my PI was never in the lab. I learned with my fellow grad students from our post-docs and senior grad students. Our lab was focused on having a collaborative environment and helping each other on projects.

Honestly.... higher ups say it’s collaborative but idk about that. Had some colleagues which were really helpful when I first began and then they left. The ones remaining are mostly post docs or staff who keep to themselves. I train some students and help them with their projects. Don’t have a PhD so sometimes it’s difficult to come up with experimental designs with students and when the designated mentor doesn’t actually mentor. Same with my own project. Everyone in my lab has different overall projects rather than multiple people working on one project. Then they wonder why it takes so long to produce a paper- no guidance, running around in circles, lab meetings are just an excuse for people to talk for 2+ hours and show off to others without actually giving much guidance. Past post docs confirm my sentiment. Lol I’m kinda over this environment but just hanging in there. At least now I know what questions to ask when looking for a prospective research mentor. I’m sorry, I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but just sharing my experience!

 

[deleted859689]

Honestly.... higher ups say it’s collaborative but idk about that. Had some colleagues which were really helpful when I first began and then they left. The ones remaining are mostly post docs or staff who keep to themselves. I train some students and help them with their projects. Don’t have a PhD so sometimes it’s difficult to come up with experimental designs with students and when the designated mentor doesn’t actually mentor. Same with my own project. Everyone in my lab has different overall projects rather than multiple people working on one project. Then they wonder why it takes so long to produce a paper- no guidance, running around in circles, lab meetings are just an excuse for people to talk for hours and show off to others. Past post docs confirm my sentiment. Lol I’m kinda over it but just hanging in there

Man that sucks. I feel you though, early in our lab (wayyyy before me and before we had multi-million dollar funding) there was a grad student who didn't have any mentors and it took him 7 years to get his PhD from the lab. When I was in lab, we each had our own project, but presented at group meeting every Friday with the entire lab and all the PIs and guests. Everyone would weigh in on the progress of your research and give suggestions on what to do next if you were stuck on a certain step (this was organic synthesis). Perhaps you can suggest group meetings to your PI, or reach out to the post-docs in your lab and try to befriend them. The post-docs I interacted with were friendly, and early on gave me some tough love. I thrived in that environment, but I did have some PTSD like I would freak out when I got a text or a call from one of them. (like what did I do this time? leave the balance a mess? forget to put away some reagents? Left a reaction unlabled and running?) I learned fast though . Reach out to them and see what knowledge they have to offer and suggest group meetings to your PI.

 

[994904]

Man that sucks. I feel you though, early in our lab (wayyyy before me and before we had multi-million dollar funding) there was a grad student who didn't have any mentors and it took him 7 years to get his PhD from the lab. When I was in lab, we each had our own project, but presented at group meeting every Friday with the entire lab and all the PIs and guests. Everyone would weigh in on the progress of your research and give suggestions on what to do next if you were stuck on a certain step (this was organic synthesis). Perhaps you can suggest group meetings to your PI, or reach out to the post-docs in your lab and try to befriend them. The post-docs I interacted with were friendly, and early on gave me some tough love. I thrived in that environment, but I did have some PTSD like I would freak out when I got a text or a call from one of them. (like what did I do this time? leave the balance a mess? forget to put away some reagents? Left a reaction unlabled and running?) I learned fast though . Reach out to them and see what knowledge they have to offer and suggest group meetings to your PI.

The meetings we have go on tangents ALL the time. Small group meetings every few MONTHS. It’s like ok I want more guidance so that means more meetings but then I don’t want meetings cause they end up being 3-4 hours with tons of tangents and anecdotes (“when I was in lab/when I was your age...”). Everyone knows me cause I handle a lot of things in the lab but they don’t talk science. I guess I could be even more talkative (I’m prob the most talkative person in lab already lol) and reach out but just looking forward to school. My PSA is this: your progress in lab depends on you, yes, but HIGHLY depends on luck, assigned project, the guidance of your mentor, funding to get supplies needed, basically so much more than we think lol. Everyone can run a western but who’s going to walk you through what proteins to look at, what mechanisms to look at, what pathways to look at etc

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

21 years old, already in 220k of debt from undergrad...

I couldn't imagine being in that much debt from just undergrad. I thought my 35k was a lot.

 

[deleted859689]

The meetings we have go on tangents ALL the time. Small group meetings every few MONTHS. It’s like ok I want more guidance so that means more meetings but then I don’t want meetings cause they end up being 3-4 hours with tons of tangents and anecdotes (“when I was in lab/when I was your age...”). Everyone knows me cause I handle a lot of things in the lab but they don’t talk science. I guess I could be even more talkative (I’m prob the most talkative person in lab already lol) and reach out but just looking forward to school. My PSA is this: your progress in lab depends on you, yes, but HIGHLY depends on luck, assigned project, the guidance of your mentor, funding to get supplies needed, basically so much more than we think lol. Everyone can run a western but who’s going to walk you through what proteins to look at, what mechanisms to look at, what pathways to look at etc

You are correct on all points. I had to ditch a project cause it was going nowhere. I tried every single reaction for this one step with no avail. I was like “noooooope I’m out” and got my first author pub on another project that took me 3 months to finish. To this day they are still working on that project.

I sympathize with you. Research can suck sometimes. Get into med school and be done with this chapter of research! Unless you don’t plan on doing any in medical school. Wish you the best

 

[Cornfed101]

I couldn't imagine being in that much debt from just undergrad. I thought my 35k was a lot.

that is a lot... I’m about half that and expecting to take full COA wherever I go. I laugh when I see the average debt of $200-300k after med school

 

[994904]

In residency, my payments were about $300/mo. When I was moonlighting regularly (which increased my salary by nearly 200%), my payments jumped to about $1500/mo. I haven't had to recertify my income since starting my faculty position yet, so I don't know what my monthly payments will be but I expect that they will essentially be equivalent to a standard 10-year repayment.

Assuming you sign-up for income-based repayment, your monthly payment is capped at 10-20% of your "discretionary" income (I forget the specific number). You can read about the different repayment plans and how that number is calculated at the Department of Education website.

Many people refinance their loans once they start making attending money because the interest rates on federal loans are a scam, and you can typically get a much lower interest rate from a private lender. The down side of refinancing is that you will often lose some of the "advantages" of federal loans (e.g., loan forgiveness, income-based repayment, etc.). Dependng on the specific lender and your credit history, you will likely pay more per month but less overall due to the lower interest rate, thus why many people end up refinancing. Meeting with a financial adviser or doing some research on your own when you get to that point can guide you on what would be best for your specific situation. Again, though, the question in either case is not whether you will be able to pay off your loans. Assuming you're at least somewhat capable of smart personal finance planning, paying back loans will be a significant part of your financial life, but they will not ruin you.

Nice! my current loan payments are doable, but wow $1500 a month... You gave some great pointers. I will definitely add refinancing and consulting with a financial adviser on my list of things to do after med school. Cheers to planning ahead!

 

[Smolpuppo21]

I couldn't imagine being in that much debt from just undergrad. I thought my 35k was a lot.

Same. I'm about $40k in debt from undergrad and $22k in debt from credit cards. It's unfathomable to me, as a severely low SES student, having $220k in debt going into medical school.

 

[994904]

I stand with you, friend! I'm a current applicant, and I'm terrified about saving up for medical school. Currently, I'm a Senior in undergrad, so I'm unable to work a job completely full-time as I do over the summer. However, I try and average about 50-55 hours/week working jobs to pay for bills at home, pay for my own bills, and pay off credit card debt. It's all starting to add up, and I'm unsure of how I'm going to pay off this $22k of CC debt that I owe. It feels like I'm crumbling under pressure, but I just want you to know that you're not alone. You'd be, however, surprised at how many applicants have the luxuries of their lives paid for by their parents. Not to shame them, because I'd dream of that kind of life, but we're definitely the minority.

I'd like to know how financial aid works for apartments because god knows I won't be able to afford the deposits for an apartment in this new state I'm moving to in July.

Wow that's amazing! I would say I worked a max of 20 hours per week in college and took out loans and my parents helped too. I was already struggling in school and didn't think I should work more hours and take a greater hit to my performance. I really am so humbled by everyone's posts on here, especially for those who did not have any help from parents at all. It wasn't until I became truly financially independent that I began working 60 hours a week to save for grad school and pay loans. You're probably in the very small minority of applicants who worked that much while in college. You've seriously been killing it! You should be very proud of what you've accomplished. Please don't crumble under pressure. And congratulations on your acceptances!!

 

[994904]

21 years old, already in 220k of debt from undergrad... so I feel ya 100%. this process wasn't made for us and it sucks and is not fair. throughout college I've worked 2-3 jobs while taking classes full-time to afford cost of living and save up as much as I could. this whole process has been on me financially and I agree its totally not fair. to make it worse ive even mentioned these things in interviews as well but because they only care to look at parent income they refer to me as not disadvantaged and dont really care what I have to say in terms of my personal financially struggles. (so p.s. to any adcoms on here, parent income DOES NOT EQUAL student income, not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to have financial support from their parents still) and here I sit without an A yet stressing about where I can work and how ill make payments on my loans next year if I dont get any luck this cycle. but keep your head up. we've been through enough obstacles to get here and struggled already, whatever financial problems we run into in the future I am confident we can work through it. just keep ur eye on the prize and dont let too much get to your head right now

Thanks for your encouragement, but I should also send those words of encouragement back to you! 220k is really alot. I know we all hope that in the near future America moves towards free education and loan forgiveness to help students like you. I also feel a ton of anxiety about where I'm going to be next year, and I know every single person on SDN feels the same, but I hope you can put away that anxiety about finances even if just for a day to rock the interviews you've already got! And I'm sure there are more to come. Keep your head up as well

 

[NITRAS]

Jut because someone overpays by 5x for his education doesn’t mean we should move toward government sponsored higher education. Just shows poor parenting and the utter stupidity of the federal student loan program.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Jut because someone overpays by 5x for his education doesn’t mean we should move toward government sponsored higher education. Just shows poor parenting and the utter stupidity of the federal student loan program.

This is why I chose my state school over a private institution.

 

[jurassicpark]

Finances will trouble you quite a bit for a long time coming, sorry no other way around it.

Most of us went deeply into debt borrowing heavily from the lenders to pay for medical school, cost of living, etc. My parents were not even willing to co-sign for me so my initial loans were incredibly predatory. Lived in essentially drug infested territory because rent was cheap. I will admit, I did have to splurge my loans on sushi every once in a while. It was a guilty treat, but absolutely necessary for sanity of mind. Post school/residency was about 300 something thousand in debt. Still paying it off almost a decade out, slowed down on payments to pay for house, wedding, business investments but should have it done hopefully in 2-3 years and maybe house payments too! If you graduate, get licensed the only question will be at what rate you want to pay it off at.

The other side would be service related repayments. The National Health Services offers some repayment, but you'll be rural and salary will be fairly low. Some organizations have loan repayments but more of a fixed income (Kaiser for a time was all but throwing cash-filled jacuzzi parties to get me to sign onboard), but my current job allows me to earn substantially more.

Then there's the military, which will pay your tuition and give you a stipend but they will own you for years to come body and soul, and depending what you do you may be far behind your peers when you get out, like for partnership, etc. Suggest going over to the military sub-forum where consensus is only do this if you really want to go military and being a doctor is just a bonus.

bottom line, save and earn what you can but for the majority of us, I believe we all went heavily into debt.

 

[994904]

Finances will trouble you quite a bit for a long time coming, sorry no other way around it.

Most of us went deeply into debt borrowing heavily from the lenders to pay for medical school, cost of living, etc. My parents were not even willing to co-sign for me so my initial loans were incredibly predatory. Lived in essentially drug infested territory because rent was cheap. I will admit, I did have to splurge my loans on sushi every once in a while. It was a guilty treat, but absolutely necessary for sanity of mind. Post school/residency was about 300 something thousand in debt. Still paying it off almost a decade out, slowed down on payments to pay for house, wedding, business investments but should have it done hopefully in 2-3 years and maybe house payments too! If you graduate, get licensed the only question will be at what rate you want to pay it off at.

The other side would be service related repayments. The National Health Services offers some repayment, but you'll be rural and salary will be fairly low. Some organizations have loan repayments but more of a fixed income (Kaiser for a time was all but throwing cash-filled jacuzzi parties to get me to sign onboard), but my current job allows me to earn substantially more.

Then there's the military, which will pay your tuition and give you a stipend but they will own you for years to come body and soul, and depending what you do you may be far behind your peers when you get out, like for partnership, etc. Suggest going over to the military sub-forum where consensus is only do this if you really want to go military and being a doctor is just a bonus.

bottom line, save and earn what you can but for the majority of us, I believe we all went heavily into debt.

Thanks! I have looked at the National Health Service Corps and that's something I would be interested in. I've looked at the sites which are available in my area, and even though I live in a metropolitan city, there are actually still NHSC approved sites. I wonder if the pay is still going to be much less even if it's an NHSC site but in an urban area. So it seems like being in rural medicine might not always be the case. Of course qualifying for this loan repayment program is dependent on whether or not one's application is accepted, if one is committed to primary care, and if there are actually job openings in one's location of interest. I can't say I'm going to know all that in my first year of medical school, since choice of specialty and future residency and career location are so up in the air.

As for military medicine... I'm almost sure I don't want to do that.
After saving for the next few months, I also want to take a few months off, partly for my own sanity and partly to dedicate specific time to applying for scholarships and grants. Even though I am expecting an enormous amount of debt come med school, I hope all the planning will somewhat pay off, even if I have to pay just a few thousand dollars less than original cost